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Dr Fighter
Posted - 2010.06.01 11:40:00 - [121]
 

it takes a few months to be decent in a BC, it takes those few months to be able to fit and afford to loose one also.

seems like its actually quite ballenced ;)

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.06.01 11:45:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Lividicus
It only takes one 5% bonus for an old player to beat a new one in the same ship.

You. Can't. Win.

By design, the only way to beat older players is to join the blob.


This is simply untrue.

Tauran Delto
Blue Republic
Posted - 2010.06.01 11:52:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Furb Killer
But while in RvB he cant run missions/mine/whatever (unless he has a deathwish), it is only pvp.


Afaik, they can. The RvB war is fought out mainly in 2 systems.


Because I never get tired of plugging RvB. Very Happy

More or less, We stick to a 4-5 jump radius just about all the time. But just because we're at war with each other doesn't mean all we do is fight in frigs, we've teamed up for epic stealth-bomber roams. We do all kinds of things together as well. We team up against other people that come in and wardec us thinking we're all nubs in frigates. We do internal tournaments for decent prizes, Internal FFAs. If you want fun, accessible, (cheap) pvp this is the place to learn. Twisted Evil

And to respond to an earlier post, We're not ALL arranged fights, sure there are some, even quite a few, but it's definitely not all we're about.

King Gore
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.06.01 14:00:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Tauran Delto


Because I never get tired of plugging RvB. Very Happy



We get it. Rolling Eyes Please talk about other thing new players can do besides coming in here and plugging your corporation. Tactics, fittings, etc. This isn't a recruitment thread.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.06.01 14:07:00 - [125]
 

RvB is more of a permanent PvP event. It's not like he's recruiting for some joe random corp with no relevance to the thread.

James Tritanius
Posted - 2010.06.01 14:19:00 - [126]
 

Actually, the whole discussion of RvB started with some reference to it as an example. Then some guy comes in and attacked it, which lead to people to defend it. And then it turned into a debate.

Orimei
Posted - 2010.06.01 14:49:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: omgfreemoniez
Originally by: Orimei
Look at me I'm a noob that's good at pvp


You're the exception.


Well, I don't have to be the exception. In fact I think I wouldn't be if there weren't as many veteran players scared senseless about lowsec and pvp in general in the noob-corps.


Originally by: Lividicus
It only takes one 5% bonus for an old player to beat a new one in the same ship.

You. Can't. Win.

By design, the only way to beat older players is to join the blob.


How come that I killed some t2 frigates solo in a rifter then?



In fact many of the so-called griefers in lowsec respect a noob who comes out to fight and will offer free advice... after you blew up of course. Laughing

Indeterminacy
THORN Syndicate
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.06.01 15:09:00 - [128]
 

Read a couple pages and didn't see anyone mention Agony Unleashed. Awesome classes beginning in frigates in 0.0 teaching basic PVP "stuff".

Can't say enough about it.

King Gore
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2010.06.02 00:26:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Indeterminacy
Read a couple pages and didn't see anyone mention Agony Unleashed. Awesome classes beginning in frigates in 0.0 teaching basic PVP "stuff".

Can't say enough about it.


Don't they hold space?

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.06.02 01:44:00 - [130]
 

Originally by: Lividicus
It only takes one 5% bonus for an old player to beat a new one in the same ship.

You. Can't. Win.

By design, the only way to beat older players is to join the blob.


Cool story bro, playing EFT offline much?

Roosterton
Eternal Frontier
Posted - 2010.06.02 02:14:00 - [131]
 

Edited by: Roosterton on 02/06/2010 02:14:09
Training to fit a Rifter with semi-decent modules takes less than a month. Then get a stack of them and lose them in lowsec to your heart's content while you train up bigger, better ships.

See? "Getting into" PVP didn't take too long.

EDIT: And before I'm flamed, killing stuff in lowsec with a rifter is very possible.

1jitadude
Posted - 2010.06.16 20:42:00 - [132]
 

From playing a number of MMo's I can tell you; some people enjoy PVP, some don't. Those who don't sometimes feel the need to justify their non-enjoyment of PVP by complaining about griefers, unfairness, or make any number of excuses why they cant pvp.. When really they just don't want to. Other MMO's nearly all have ways of declaring yourself off-limits for PVP, with EVE being one notable exception.

So to you folks I say: it's OK! Play the way you want to.. There are about a million ways to avoid PVP in this game, so don't worry about it..

Aliraxi
Gallente
Throat Slitters
Posted - 2010.06.17 03:44:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Aliraxi on 17/06/2010 03:47:41
Started at 6m SP in nullsec skirmish warfare.

Now sitting on a *massive* pile of 11m SP. Rolling Eyes

Just over 250 kills.

And I've only been heavy into pvp for 5-6 months.

Twisted Evil

Hell I couldn't even use T2 small guns until about a month ago.


Edit:

To the person who said "5% blahblah"

I regularly fight against gangs who are several years older (character-wise) than the people in our gangs, and we still rip em a new one YARRRR!!

Ori Blake
Posted - 2010.06.17 05:35:00 - [134]
 

No, you do need a good amount of sp to be effective. Going out in a rifter doesnt do anything when all you can do is:

1. Run from the BS that just warped in.

or

2. Die.

or

3. Be a point in a fleet while your BS kill their BS. Get 1% damage on a killmail.

Mostly 1 and 2 if you try to go it alone.

Maybe, just maybe you'll have a somewhat even fight, but chances are you'll die then too, because the other guy has more sp and knows his ship better.

If you don't believe me, try it yourself. go out im a rifter with tech one fittings, see how well you do.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.06.17 07:22:00 - [135]
 

I started out in December 2008 with nothing. Now for the first 2-3 months of a new player's life they will be more concerned with earning money to pay for basics like ships/skills. PvP is certainly possible but even losing Rifters (with T2 guns) is relatively expensive.

The temptation at this stage is to ship-up to increase your PVE earnings. The problem is that, in general, this leaves you with very poor ship/support/DPS skills for smaller ships and skills that are adequate for PVEing in battlecruisers/battleships but not much else. Its hard not to go with the crowd on this but it really helps if you don't.

I started PVP after about 3 months training - maybe 4 mill SPs? Could have started earlier if I was flying with someone but I wasn't. Stayed in frigate/destroyer class ships for the rest of 2009. Lost quite a few but learned what they can do - which helps when you do ship-up. Once you're using interceptors/assualt frigates then this is quite likely the most expensive part of your PVP "career" - you can skip this but I'd recommend you don't. Went into cruisers/battlecruisers in 2010 and the losses drop right off - only lost 8 or 9 ships this year. Had I not spent a lot of time in frigates/dessies then my cruiser losses would have been a lot higher.

I'd strongly recommend the Agony Unleashed PvP-Basic course for finding out if PVP is going to be your thing or not. They have more courses but the basic one will convince you one way or the other as to whether PvP is for you or not.

You can kill anyone in Eve, regardless of SPs. You may have to pick your moment but its always possible. Personally I'd head for 0.0 rather than low-sec as it means you can fight on-gate without complications like tanking gate guns - bubbles may be an issue but they're not as common as people would have you believe. If you have a couple of friends then that sometimes makes things easier, but try to solo as most "PvP'rs" don't like flying outside the blob.

tl;dr try to avoid skilling for large PVE ships; frigates are good but your losses will be high; avoid the blob as you will learn nothing.




Astrostoner
Posted - 2010.06.17 09:50:00 - [136]
 

I'm not sure why no-one has mentioned implants in the PvP equation. Most new people want to train as fast as they can and most new(ish) will have most likely bought implants at the very top end of what they can afford, maybe what they cant afford. Remember beeing a noob? there was a LOT to train/do/think about back then and It's the thought of loosing those expensive implants and not the ships/fittings thats the real turn off.

Now if we could have personal insurance, maybe 3/4 of the average price of the implants then maybe it would be more attractive. Learning at a faster rate > being blown up and loosing expensive implants for the off chance of having some PvP fun. I think most inexperienced players look at it and think, hmmm.... take the safer PvE option, still fun (for new players) and much less likely to loose my 300m implants that I've just sold plex to buy by being instapoped as i jump through the 1st gate.

Not to mention those 'the end is neigh' style warnings that you get when 1st traveling to nulsec lol, they'll make you run for the hills as a new player that doesnt really understand EVE that well.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.06.17 10:28:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Astrostoner
I'm not sure why no-one has mentioned implants in the PvP equation. Most new people want to train as fast as they can and most new(ish) will have most likely bought implants at the very top end of what they can afford, maybe what they cant afford. Remember beeing a noob? there was a LOT to train/do/think about back then and It's the thought of loosing those expensive implants and not the ships/fittings thats the real turn off.


OK this is just a lack of knowledge really.

In low-sec there are no bubbles and pods instawarp so the only way you will lose your pod is if you're drunk or "lagged". ie - it WILL be your fault it happened. This is where overview tabs and setup come in - have a tab with just planets on it (not moons) and when your ship is about to pop you select that tab and spam warp to some planet. After that you warp to gate and away you go.

In 0.0 you'll probably lose your pod a few times but this is where jumpclones come into play. Simply setup a jumpclone with whichever implants you consider cheap - or none at all - and go PvP. Jump back into "expensive" clone when you're in low-sec. Estel Arador offers jumpclones for the installation cost pretty much everywhere so no need to grind standings.

Agony Basic class would teach you the overview stuff, Estel Arador has been around for ages....

dexington
Caldari
Baconoration
Posted - 2010.06.17 10:59:00 - [138]
 

I tryed pvping in a rifter, and it sucks... No one else is flying the small ships, at best you can get to fight a cruiser, but most likely you will be kill be some battleships gate camping. I tryed flying from system to system for 5-6 hours, got gate killed twice by battleships. I got into one PvP fight, my opponent flying a t2 fitted enyo did have any problems killing me, still just trying to use some off the moduls on my ship was fun.

I don't mind getting killed and getting my ship destroyed, but when you know that it is going to happen all the time it just seems stupid to even try to pvp. I really can't understand how i'll learn anything about PvP getting my rifter blown up by a battleship. Maybe it's just me who don't understand PvP in EVE, seems like most of it is just some gang killing someone flying around solo... don't know if i just have to much pride or is to stupid to see the fun in that.

I find it really hard to see what new players should do in EVE. PvE gives isk, but is extremely boring and uninspiring. PvP is just extremely boring and uninspiring.

Astrostoner
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:04:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Othran

OK this is just a lack of knowledge really.


Oh I see! Many thanks for the info! I never did have an issue with ships that I was emotionally attached to or something, just didnt want to loose expensive implants and training as fast as I could was far more important. I for one will be seeking some lowsec PvP experience ASAP ;)


Originally by: Othran

In low-sec there are no bubbles and pods instawarp so the only way you will lose your pod is if you're drunk


ermm.... yeah :)


Also, does that mean you could travel through lowsec in a pod pretty much without risk?

Astrostoner
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:09:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: dexington
I don't mind getting killed and getting my ship destroyed, but when you know that it is going to happen all the time it just seems stupid to even try to pvp. I really can't understand how i'll learn anything about PvP getting my rifter blown up by a battleship. Maybe it's just me who don't understand PvP in EVE, seems like most of it is just some gang killing someone flying around solo... don't know if i just have to much pride or is to stupid to see the fun in that.


hmmmm, never really considered this either....

Uncle Fester
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:14:00 - [141]
 

Edited by: Uncle Fester on 17/06/2010 11:23:32
There is a video somewhere on youtube that shows 2 vets who made trial accounts and then went on to film themselves heading into providance to hunt. Something like 2-3 hrs training for propulsion and what not, but that was it 2 hrs training a couple of rifters and off they went.

Granted they were vets who knew how to fit the ships and use them properly, but still it shows pvp is available on day 1.

If anyone knows this vid plz link it here for the unbelievers.

pvp is very personal, some like to fight titans with dreads, others like to do solo work in cruisers or even frigates,(how many drams are out there atm?), obviously fighting titans in dreads takes a very long time to train, but fighting fw in a frigate takes hrs, some players consider trading to even be pvp,player vs player just means one guy getting one over on the next guy, how ever you do it is upto you, your means and desires. But there really is nothing stopping you going out on day one and ruining someone elses day.Twisted Evil

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:19:00 - [142]
 

Edited by: Othran on 17/06/2010 11:19:35
Edited by: Othran on 17/06/2010 11:19:16
Originally by: Astrostoner

Also, does that mean you could travel through lowsec in a pod pretty much without risk?



Yes. Its pretty much risk-free in most T1 frigates or interceptors too assuming you avoid the commonly camped low<->high-sec gates. Podding around low-sec is as risk-free as it gets though.

Othran
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:30:00 - [143]
 

Edited by: Othran on 17/06/2010 11:30:41
Originally by: dexington
I tryed pvping in a rifter, and it sucks... No one else is flying the small ships, at best you can get to fight a cruiser, but most likely you will be kill be some battleships gate camping.


Loads of frigates get used in Factional Warfare.

Oh and last pimpage for Agony courses - from the link I posted earlier :

"To the newer player, that battleship can look like an aardvark might to an ant. However, you should be aware that even the newest player in the game can take down that ship if they have the help of a few good friends and the tenacity to try. What is more, they can do it without sustaining a single casualty. In the past Agony has shown this by taking out battleships with as little as 10 tech 1 frigates."

Its really just about knowledge. Not in-game skills, although some are required, but your own knowledge. I agree its not the easiest knowledge for a new player to acquire but there are ways.

There are of course people who simply don't want to PvP, even though they claim they do. Not much you can do about these people really - you can try to help but a lot of people are just never going to do it regardless of how much help they get.

Personally I don't understand why people who don't like PvP play Eve. The only thing that keeps me coming back is the PvP - whether pewpew or market warfare (aka trading).

Ocih
Amarr
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:34:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Othran
Edited by: Othran on 17/06/2010 11:19:35
Edited by: Othran on 17/06/2010 11:19:16
Originally by: Astrostoner

Also, does that mean you could travel through lowsec in a pod pretty much without risk?



Yes. Its pretty much risk-free in most T1 frigates or interceptors too assuming you avoid the commonly camped low<->high-sec gates. Podding around low-sec is as risk-free as it gets though.


I can fly anywhere in EvE risk free. An Anathema, A Pilgrim? You wont catch me, I guarantee it. That said? I am flying reward free too. Mistakes are what get you killed and they are getting harder and harder to find in EvE.

Obyrith
Posted - 2010.06.17 11:41:00 - [145]
 

Confirming that even under high-lag situations in low-sec your pod is safe from pretty much anything except pirates with smartbombs. Even in situations where my ship was locked and destroyed before my client registered the locks, I was able to warp out thanks to the session-change delay created by 'boarding' the pod using warp-to spam.

The thing CCP probably could do is to make planets visible in the overview by default, and add a section to the tutorial that we could call 'taking care of your pod', teaching the whole warp-to spam trick, it's limitations and the situations in which it makes the difference between losing 100 million worth of +4s and getting out safe.

The trouble is that new player's perceptions are entirely moulded by experience, and if your only experience is getting podkilled because you don't know it's even possible to warp out fast enough, you're going to get an exaggerated perception of how dangerous PvP (particularly low-sec PvP) really is.

Astrostoner
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:15:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Obyrith
The trouble is that new player's perceptions are entirely moulded by experience, and if your only experience is getting podkilled because you don't know it's even possible to warp out fast enough, you're going to get an exaggerated perception of how dangerous PvP (particularly low-sec PvP) really is.


^ This. As a new player, most def this. I have lost quite a few ships in my time (not that long btw) but also been podded at least once (and Ive never been nulsec). Early enough to not lose too much money on implants but also perhaps warping my view on safety.

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:18:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Uncle Fester
There is a video somewhere on youtube that shows 2 vets who made trial accounts and then went on to film themselves heading into providance to hunt. Something like 2-3 hrs training for propulsion and what not, but that was it 2 hrs training a couple of rifters and off they went.

Granted they were vets who knew how to fit the ships and use them properly, but still it shows pvp is available on day 1.

If anyone knows this vid plz link it here for the unbelievers.

Here you go: The CCP Challenge.

It's a cool video but it's not going to convince anyway. PVPers are the ones who just undock a ship and go looking for a fight, regardless of skillpoints or anything else. From my experience everybody else will never get it, you may be able to stick them in a fleet and tell them what to do but that does not make them PVPers in my opinion.

Guilliman R
Gallente
Northstar Cabal
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:22:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Obyrith


The trouble is that new player's perceptions are entirely moulded by experience, and if your only experience is getting podkilled because you don't know it's even possible to warp out fast enough, you're going to get an exaggerated perception of how dangerous PvP (particularly low-sec PvP) really is.


Yup, was same for me. Losing so fast you have no idea WTF happened kept me out of low sec for quite a while.

Ocih
Amarr
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:25:00 - [149]
 

The information missing here is why people end up in low sec. They dont go there to PvP. They get sent there for a mission. Those are the people Low sec PvPers target. They show up in an Itty 3 with worthless junk and either lose it on the way in or out. I have seen guys sitting outside mission based station in Thenatos, tanking guns while thier alts pop mission people trying to haul thier 8 crates of garbage to some obscure station.

Missions are solo content. Nobody wants to group up and split fleet PvP and PvE for a 200K mission in low sec. Thats the experience people collect in EvE. Not, dont go to low sec. Dont go there to do missions. Of course they now have no reason to go to low sec. They logged in to do missions. Not play dodge ball with low sec pirates.

Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.06.17 12:42:00 - [150]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 17/06/2010 13:00:50
I agree with Astrostoner: the biggest problem with PvP is losing your +5 impants when podded.
You can fly any cheap ship but not a cheap implant and keep your skill training speed.

When wardeced as a rookie in a small corp one of my chars has been podded before I knew what was happening, I'm not going to take that risk again with +5s.

Too bad, no PvP for me then! Stupid podding system!


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