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Afrodite Draconis
Posted - 2010.05.31 07:09:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: JoeBirras
"An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it!"

I agree

/signed

It WAS expanded...

You get to see more of EVE as you have to travel further for missions...
You get to experience fighting in low-sec if you do L5's...
You get to manufacture if you want 425mm Railgun I's without paying ISK for them...
You get to fly bigger ships if you do L4 transport missions...

So I assume you're happy now Cool


You forgot "you get to experience gatecamp popping your 2 bil pimped faction boat." That's also new development.Laughing
Grow a pair whiners!

Nightjester
LS Trading and Production Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.31 07:43:00 - [122]
 

I think what CCP has done to lv4 missions is a good start but they still have to much reward for to little risk.

I would be happy for CCP to reverse the missions back to the old loot system and then just half the amount of times when ships drop something.

Lv4 missions need to be a lot harder, I fell asleep in one, came back 8 hours later and was still alive even though I was under fire from two groups. Every mission should warp scramble at lv4 also make them more of a challenge.

I duel box missions with no risk at all make 80-100m an hour.

Loyalty points for high sec should be decreased by 33% and running level 4 missions in low-sec should have loyalty points increased by 200-250% to increase people willing to run them in low sec.

I would like to see the reward be maxed to around 20m per hour including loyalty points and refining of loot per hour.






Andra Zeit
Posted - 2010.05.31 08:12:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Nightjester
I think what CCP has done to lv4 missions is a good start but they still have to much reward for to little risk.


How about ratting in deep 0.0 home lands? Never seen player enemies.. zero risk, but full pay? Something wrong with the "holy" risk-reward?

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.05.31 08:41:00 - [124]
 

Originally by: Andra Zeit
How about ratting in deep 0.0 home lands? Never seen player enemies.. zero risk, but full pay? Something wrong with the "holy" risk-reward?
You can't be ousted from highsec; you can from nullsec. So no, working as intended.

Alfa Lavala
Block Zero
Posted - 2010.05.31 08:54:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Kvo Vadis
I use mission running for PVP ships. War is an expansive business. When me and my friends blow up somebodies ship in low-sec there are very cheap t2 loot. This does not cover cost of lost ships. So if mission running is nerfed I will less PVP. Solo mission running in 0.5-0.6 was very good tool for earning money for PVP.
If you ask why we do not run missions in 0.3-0.4 in party? Because if we have several peoples online we better spend time for ganging then for killing red crosses YARRRR!!


Exactly.

Am online waiting for people to come on - different TZ/working hours etc. - I run missions to make isk whilst waiting. Everyone's online we're going to PVP not run low sec missions together...

oneway89
Posted - 2010.05.31 08:54:00 - [126]
 

Besides all the BS getting throw around, you we need to actualy look at who this hurts, ccp has seriously taken a piece out of everyone

Mission runners - New and the slow ones that need salvage for income will take a hit. The old elite? s%*t we don't salvage as it is, less isk per hour, so no lose there.

Ninja's and newbie salvagers - There geting the worst of it, 70%-80% hit would be about right.

Miners - Well base mat prices are undoughtedly going to go up, so all good for them, macro'n or no

Industrialist - Once they clear old stock for profit there going to have to pay more overhead with mat prices up. So more overhead equals less units on market.

PVP'rs in general - Since base mat prices are up, t1 ship prices will follow close to suit (nm t1 rig prices), and lets face it, most mission runs don't lose a t1 ship a day, if they even still fly one at all. Sure new insurence will adapt abit but still bigger overhead and bigger insurence payment.

This was just so blaitently a matter of increasing base ore refining yields to scale them off with drop rates at whatever risk reward they think of them but instead they basicaly altered every other base material source in the game. Don't even get me started on the drone drop rate. Like fixing a broken window by knocking the house down.

Backho
Posted - 2010.05.31 09:22:00 - [127]
 

Mission running carriers a decently sized risk of being suicide ganked, or crash/dc/carelessness losing ship

Example of silly risk-to-reward ratio is pirating.
Theres no risk ganking a low sec missioner, because the rats will never shoot at you. And they never fit scramblers.

Another job with low risk high reward is trading. Sure, you stumble upon people stacking 100 Ys-8s having horrible losses. but otherwise, your almost guaranteed profits because you can always re-sell it worst comes to worst, to the 0.01 isk guy below you.

Mission running is overated.
We need better missions. and thats lv 5 in high sec.

MajorMeatball
Posted - 2010.05.31 14:24:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: MajorMeatball on 31/05/2010 14:24:03
Gets my vote. I pay to play! Seriously considering to cancel all 5 of my accounts!

No you cant haz my stuff! ugh

Meat

Galdevwin
Posted - 2010.05.31 14:26:00 - [129]
 

+ 1

This patch blows!

Galdevwin

ViperCT
Posted - 2010.05.31 14:35:00 - [130]
 

Agreed +1Sad

vcosta
Posted - 2010.05.31 14:37:00 - [131]
 

yeah.mission loot is so lame nowCrying or Very sad +1

Goose99
Posted - 2010.05.31 14:37:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Afrodite Draconis
Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: JoeBirras
"An expansion is supposed to expand the game, not decrease it!"

I agree

/signed

It WAS expanded...

You get to see more of EVE as you have to travel further for missions...
You get to experience fighting in low-sec if you do L5's...
You get to manufacture if you want 425mm Railgun I's without paying ISK for them...
You get to fly bigger ships if you do L4 transport missions...

So I assume you're happy now Cool


You forgot "you get to experience gatecamp popping your 2 bil pimped faction boat." That's also new development.Laughing
Grow a pair whiners!


Being in possession of a pair, I assume you lost a 2 bil pimpboat?Laughing

1OfMany
Posted - 2010.05.31 15:48:00 - [133]
 

I still have not seen any hard proof that L5's where intended for low-sec only.

The only 'hard' evidence which had been shown in another thread is an almost 3 year old BLOG from a developer where the only statement made was that the AGENTS would be available in low-sec. So PLEASE, don't call lowered probability of L5's in Hi-sec an Exploit fix or fix as it was intended.

The real 'fix' is to the coding for moving the mission's out of crowded systems, and as Low-sec is usually less crowded then hi-sec systems, it's natural that these occur more often in low-sec. But ofcourse parking a big amount of alts in low-sec helps the probability of the mission going to Hi-sec when less players are located there.

About the remarks that everything in EVE has to go boom... ofcourse.. but partially, if everything would become 0.0 as mentioned in the thread, ships and fittings will be priceless and only the richest of them all could afford them as mining would stop for the biggest part, missions too, industrialist would have a hard time getting their resources etc etc all because of chaos and 'wild-west' everywhere, not to mention the NEW players wouldn't last a day outside giving up after their 14 days of trial. or perhaps the day they started.

Missions mean income for a big group of people in every profession within EVE, Pirates/Industrialists/Explorers etc.

Alot of Pirates have mission alts to pay for their PvP and Piracy
Alot of Industrialists mission for paying bills
Alot of Explorers run (SoE) missions for equipment/probes
and i'm sure i've forgotten more reasons why people mission

Level 5 missions in Hi-sec where more fun then in low-sec, not because you could loose PvE ships in low-sec against PvP Ships, but because it was HARDER then in low-sec, Solo or with a friend doing Level 5's in Hi-sec ment you where activly playing them, like using a Cruiser in a Level 4 mission instead of AFK missioning in a Dominix. Low-sec Level 5's is like blitzing the Level 4's, drop a carrier in it and you're done before you know it without too much problems.

There are even people with a fully fitted carrier parked in every possible low-sec system their agents could send them to, so all they got to do is fly there light and fast and blitz the mission.

I won't go as far as really /signing this thread, but a bit more nuance to the story from both sides will only help make EVE a more fun game for everyone ...

wert668
Posted - 2010.05.31 16:10:00 - [134]
 

Gets my vote!
Want lvl5's back

hellscure
Posted - 2010.05.31 17:00:00 - [135]
 

/signed

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.05.31 17:14:00 - [136]
 

Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 17:20:49






As with ninja salvagers it's dead easy to avoid the so called nerfs. Try thinking harder and using the mechanic to your advantage.

EDIT: My mission income has gone up. I'm sure so many people assume the way they do things are the most optimum they don't spend a few minutes giving it any critical thought.

Stop rushing to the forums and crying, think for once. The mechanics are a massive hint on how to deal with it. They are the same as how you deal with ninja salvagers.

The change is the missions will be biased towards low population systems. That does NOT say low sec does it? The fact that it often is low sec is not relevant.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.05.31 17:27:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: Zartrader
Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 17:20:49
The change is the missions will be biased towards low population systems.


No offense, but you should look into it and get a clue. If you can't be bothered to check things in game, actually reading others' reports of what's going on is a good start.Rolling Eyes

Plukovnik
Quondam Souls of the Universe corporation
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2010.05.31 18:29:00 - [138]
 

Hmmmm, nice.

I suggest now CCP makes missiles more usable in PvP.

Increasing Missile velocity and explosion velocity would be something I would appreciate - especially T2 precision missiles should have their bonuses at least tripled.

CCP, if you were concerned about ravens making huge money easily, now you nerfed loots, you can improve missile usability in PvP, please, please! Missile velocity and explosion velocity doesnt help carebears much :-)


Zartrader
Posted - 2010.05.31 18:40:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 18:57:40
Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 18:50:27

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Zartrader
Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 17:20:49
The change is the missions will be biased towards low population systems.


No offense, but you should look into it and get a clue. If you can't be bothered to check things in game, actually reading others' reports of what's going on is a good start.Rolling Eyes


I read patch notes and ignore whiners. Here is the extract 'The load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.'

Source Linkage

Now tell me where low sec is mentioned?

As to mission loot I've not looted for months, it's very time inefficient. Only new players, bad players and marauder pilots will be affected.

I'm next to a low sec system and not been sent there for the past 15 missions I did. That's less than before.

Also, as there will be less looting Meta 1 to 4 and salvage will go up in price anyway.

Moaning is easy and the changes have boosted my income:

Deflation without the mission income being changed means I get more for missions.

I've always been careful where I mission and avoided crowds, the change means I often get a mission in the system I am in which saves time.

If the price of salvage does recover and Meta 1 to 4 goes up too then it may be worth salvaging/looting again.


To solve everyone problem, except level 5's which I don't give a stuff about as when I looked the rewards were not worth the training and cost, you can do this:

1. Stop salvaging and looting.

2. Pick a very remote area. If its next to low sec, check out how many are in the low sec space there (it's often more)

3. Quality of agent is not the only important factor in rewards. So a Q10 could be just as good as a Q20 elsewhere.

4. The above also means you won't ever see a ninja salvager again and rewards are usually higher too as there are less speed runners reducing the average time.

5. The LP store items do not matter. Simply sell the LP stuff and buy what you want on contract, you often get a much better deal than that anyway.

6. If you need standings with one Corp which do not fulfil the above, just do it as far as needed and no more.













Ghost Wisperer
Posted - 2010.05.31 18:53:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Zartrader
Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 18:50:27

I read patch notes and ignore whiners. Here is the extract 'The load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.'

Source Linkage

Now tell me where low sec is mentioned?

As to mission loot I've not looted for months, it's very time inefficient. Only new players, bad players and marauder pilots will be affected.

I'm next to a low sec system and not been sent there for the past 15 missions I did. That's less than before.

Also, as there will be less looting Meta 1 to 4 and salvage will go up in price anyway.

Moaning is easy and the changes have boosted my income:

Deflation without the mission income being changed means I get more for missions.

I've always been careful where I mission and avoided crowds, the change means I often get a mission in the system I am in which saves time.

If the price of salvage does recover and Meta 1 to 4 goes up too then it may be worth salvaging/looting again.



Сool Story Bro !

Goose99
Posted - 2010.05.31 19:05:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Ghost Wisperer
Originally by: Zartrader
Edited by: Zartrader on 31/05/2010 18:50:27

I read patch notes and ignore whiners. Here is the extract 'The load balancing mechanism for missions in Dominion incorrectly prioritized high-load systems over low-load systems when selecting the location for mission objectives. Agents now prefer to send players to less loaded systems.'

Source Linkage

Now tell me where low sec is mentioned?

As to mission loot I've not looted for months, it's very time inefficient. Only new players, bad players and marauder pilots will be affected.

I'm next to a low sec system and not been sent there for the past 15 missions I did. That's less than before.

Also, as there will be less looting Meta 1 to 4 and salvage will go up in price anyway.

Moaning is easy and the changes have boosted my income:

Deflation without the mission income being changed means I get more for missions.

I've always been careful where I mission and avoided crowds, the change means I often get a mission in the system I am in which saves time.

If the price of salvage does recover and Meta 1 to 4 goes up too then it may be worth salvaging/looting again.



Сool Story Bro !



Lol,see? Clueless to what's actually going on. Didioxie population: 400 and rising.Laughing

Wicked Spider
Posted - 2010.05.31 20:27:00 - [142]
 

way to many jumps for courier missions
the 1 metal scrap ...
fun went down since the change

Objectless Hatred
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.31 20:47:00 - [143]
 

/signed.

Johivan Clause
Posted - 2010.05.31 21:07:00 - [144]
 

/signed. The nerfs need to be un-nerfed!

Cpt Stealk
Posted - 2010.05.31 21:14:00 - [145]
 

/signed

I may not be affected by loot drop as I run the missions too fast with the torp cnr but even with the cnr running lvl 4's as fast as possible I'm having to run missions twice as long to make half as much profit as running lvl 5's in a Tengu. Now I realize most people will say 'stop complaining you're already making more isk than others' You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts, and afford the pvp ships for my alt. I try to mission as less as possible as it's extremely boring. But now that I'm back to running lvl 4's EVE has become a tedius job again. Instead of coming on and running missions for an hour or 2 in the morning, I have to spend the entire afternoon trying to spam lvl 4's and I'm making half as much. Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for.

Let me put this into perspective. Before the patch I would mission for an hour or 2 in the morning and pvp throughout the afternoon and evening. Now since the patch I have only done missions throughout the day and made less isk since patch release than I would have in 2 days of running lvl 5's in the morning. I haven't had any time to pvp while playing EVE and it's extremely tedious and boring. Not sure why I would want to play..

Goose99
Posted - 2010.05.31 21:20:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Cpt Stealk
/signed

I may not be affected by loot drop as I run the missions too fast with the torp cnr but even with the cnr running lvl 4's as fast as possible I'm having to run missions twice as long to make half as much profit as running lvl 5's in a Tengu. Now I realize most people will say 'stop complaining you're already making more isk than others' You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts, and afford the pvp ships for my alt. I try to mission as less as possible as it's extremely boring. But now that I'm back to running lvl 4's EVE has become a tedius job again. Instead of coming on and running missions for an hour or 2 in the morning, I have to spend the entire afternoon trying to spam lvl 4's and I'm making half as much. Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for.

Let me put this into perspective. Before the patch I would mission for an hour or 2 in the morning and pvp throughout the afternoon and evening. Now since the patch I have only done missions throughout the day and made less isk since patch release than I would have in 2 days of running lvl 5's in the morning. I haven't had any time to pvp while playing EVE and it's extremely tedious and boring. Not sure why I would want to play..


You do realize those forum petitions are worthless, right? Cancel one of those accounts, since you no longer need it for lvl5s. That's the real petition.

The Augmentor
Posted - 2010.05.31 21:52:00 - [147]
 

+1 to the petition

ccp should have looked at other ways to change high sec level 5s before destroying them....it makes sense to divert people to lowly populated areas, but i doubt that 100 people in a system running missions needs anything to divert at all...if it does they need new servers.

the only people who make a lot out of level 5s are the people ccp lets (and lets be very clear about this....ccp purposefully added that functionality) duelbox....if i had to play 3 games of spaceinvaders at the same time just to make it fun i wouldnt play the game in the first place.


Cpt Stealk
Posted - 2010.05.31 22:02:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: Cpt Stealk
/signed

I may not be affected by loot drop as I run the missions too fast with the torp cnr but even with the cnr running lvl 4's as fast as possible I'm having to run missions twice as long to make half as much profit as running lvl 5's in a Tengu. Now I realize most people will say 'stop complaining you're already making more isk than others' You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts, and afford the pvp ships for my alt. I try to mission as less as possible as it's extremely boring. But now that I'm back to running lvl 4's EVE has become a tedius job again. Instead of coming on and running missions for an hour or 2 in the morning, I have to spend the entire afternoon trying to spam lvl 4's and I'm making half as much. Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for.

Let me put this into perspective. Before the patch I would mission for an hour or 2 in the morning and pvp throughout the afternoon and evening. Now since the patch I have only done missions throughout the day and made less isk since patch release than I would have in 2 days of running lvl 5's in the morning. I haven't had any time to pvp while playing EVE and it's extremely tedious and boring. Not sure why I would want to play..


You do realize those forum petitions are worthless, right? Cancel one of those accounts, since you no longer need it for lvl5s. That's the real petition.


My pvp account is incompetent at making isk as I am a ceptor/vaga pilot and all of my skills for pvp. Therefore a second account is essential to keeping my pvp habbits moving along. And if you were trying to say I don't need one of the accounts for logistics or something to run the lvl 5's, I never used logistics. My characters are on separate sides of the universe from each other.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.05.31 22:37:00 - [149]
 

Quote:
Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for.



Fair enough. Except

Quote:
You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts


Buying plex doesn't count.

You realize how the plex market works, right? You aren't paying CCP in ISK, you are paying another player.



Anyway, here's why what you're doing is dumb:

Based on GTC prices, $14-15 is worth about 300 million ISK. That means that if you can make $7/hour working, you'd need to make 150 million ISK/hour for it to make financial sense to grind missions to pay for your sub. Since you clearly aren't making that much, get a part time job. You'd spend less time grinding (if missions are boring, you may even enjoy work more), you'd be able to pay for your accounts, sell a couple GTC of your own to fund your PVP, and STILL have money left over for hookers and coke.

Goose99
Posted - 2010.05.31 23:00:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
Doesn't seem right that I feel burdened to play a video game that I'm paying for.



Fair enough. Except

Quote:
You have to realize that I only run missions so I can pay for my 2 accounts


Buying plex doesn't count.

You realize how the plex market works, right? You aren't paying CCP in ISK, you are paying another player.



Anyway, here's why what you're doing is dumb:

Based on GTC prices, $14-15 is worth about 300 million ISK. That means that if you can make $7/hour working, you'd need to make 150 million ISK/hour for it to make financial sense to grind missions to pay for your sub. Since you clearly aren't making that much, get a part time job. You'd spend less time grinding (if missions are boring, you may even enjoy work more), you'd be able to pay for your accounts, sell a couple GTC of your own to fund your PVP, and STILL have money left over for hookers and coke.


Makes sense in theory, except people don't equate time wasted playing eve pve with actual work. They'd be spending that money buying other games, but won't think twice about wasting their life away grinding missions.

Aside from that, did you know that Solitaire is BY FAR the most popular PC game of all time? Strangely enough, most people play eve for the mission grind itself, and don't see it as a means to an end.


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