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blankseplocked tactical overview option for solo/small gangs: Ship Velocity Vectors
 
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Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.09.08 12:14:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Yankunytjatjara on 08/09/2010 12:19:07
Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I've been reviewing the thread and giving this a bit of thought. I am starting to wonder if what is needed is not so much an actual vector, but some sort of overlay display that intuitively gives you the gestalt of what you need to know in a very compact form. Anyone who has watched SF Anime will know what I'm getting at.

So what data do we want to be able to "grok" just by looking at a ship?

* Direction and speed relative to the celestial sphere centered on my ship.
* Radial velocity (heading towards and away from me).
* Transversal -- or more particularly, are my gun(s) able to hit him?

Anything else?

I am thinking maybe a circle around each ship, with 2 180-degree arcs. The top arc is transversal, the bottom one is radial, and a small triangle moves around the outside of the circle to indicate transversal direction.

Arc size would indicate magnitude; arc colors would indicate things like towards/away and how well your guns might track.

Thoughts?

Cool ideas, but they could work less clearly than a simple vector in messy situations where you have to zoom out. Those indicators would overlap; if two vectors overlap it should still be clear enough given that they start from the ship, but circles and triangles not so much. And one of my objectives is to be able to see what nearby ships are doing when zooming out.

Maybe the current columns of the overview could be selected in order to add to your tactical overlay either speed, or trasnversal, or radial and so on, as vectors. I'm also trying here to minimize programmer's work.

Edit: your ideas would however be awesome if one could mouse-select a blob and see the average or median speed/transversal/... ugh

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.09.10 09:37:00 - [92]
 

Reasonable points.

Something else just occurred to me. What if the display was limited to the currently selected ship, plus all the ships you have locked (both in space, and with the additional info in a halo around a smaller ship badge in the list of locked ships)?

There has to be a way to limit the amount of information to prevent clutter, and in the heat of battle, doing a lot of display selection isn't going to be optimal anyway.

Let's work on clarifying various approaches over the next two weeks, so that I can raise it in the CSM meeting at the end of the month.

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.09.10 13:01:00 - [93]
 

To avoid clutter, instead of graphics and icons, use a simple segment ugh

I don't want to see where the locked ships go - in a frig once I lock them everything is decided anyway. I want to understand at a glance what the whole enemy blob is doing. Speed vectors are perfect why do you not like the idea? Is it too simple? The simple ideas are the best ones.

Moreover, it blends well into the currently existing tactical overlay, and is a lot less onerous a work for the devs.

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.09.10 13:05:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
There has to be a way to limit the amount of information to prevent clutter, and in the heat of battle, doing a lot of display selection isn't going to be optimal anyway.

The display selection bit is done before battle, exactly like you twiddle with your overview settings. You probably don't want to see this for your fleet, for neutrals if you're in highsec, and pods. You want to see it for war/FW targets, and neutrals in lowsec and highsec.

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Let's work on clarifying various approaches over the next two weeks, so that I can raise it in the CSM meeting at the end of the month.
Woot!!! \o/

DeBingJos
Minmatar
Goat Holdings

Posted - 2010.09.15 14:26:00 - [95]
 

+1 supported

Nuts Nougat
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.09.15 15:14:00 - [96]
 

Edited by: Nuts Nougat on 15/09/2010 15:14:57
Originally by: Crumplecorn
tl;dr: Bring back trails
This.

Thumbsup edit

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.09.17 15:10:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Nuts Nougat
Edited by: Nuts Nougat on 15/09/2010 15:14:57
Originally by: Crumplecorn
tl;dr: Bring back trails
This.

Thumbsup edit

Thankas for the up.

The trails are something different, I don't oppose them but they don't work when zoomed out.

Aiifa
Pandora Sphere
Narwhals Ate My Duck
Posted - 2010.09.17 22:20:00 - [98]
 

This could be linked to the concept of "look at" range -- you'd only be able to see this information so represented within 100km. Much further out, it's irrelevant imho.

Or whatever. The surrounding concepts are interesting, but I think absolute vectors for all ships are completely essential to Eve's future development. Superb idea.

Raimo
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.10.15 12:53:00 - [99]
 

Great idea, vector would be pointing forward I hope, for engine trails need the rear

Vayna Miychovich
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.10.25 12:46:00 - [100]
 

Topic Supported!

Greg6
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.10.25 15:59:00 - [101]
 

I could quibble with the details but the big picture is spot on. Fully supported.

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.10.28 18:27:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Raimo
Great idea, vector would be pointing forward I hope, for engine trails need the rear

No I want backwards vectors. Just to **** off the bittervets Razz

Ghost Nightmare
Posted - 2010.11.12 16:23:00 - [103]
 

i r ghost and i r approve

GreenYoshi
Red Federation
RvB - RED Federation
Posted - 2010.11.12 16:48:00 - [104]
 

Supporting this. Would add a really nice tool to the arsenal.

Arctic Monkey
Caldari
D00M.
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.11.13 05:49:00 - [105]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
Something else just occurred to me. What if the display was limited to the currently selected ship, plus all the ships you have locked (both in space, and with the additional info in a halo around a smaller ship badge in the list of locked ships)?

There has to be a way to limit the amount of information to prevent clutter, and in the heat of battle, doing a lot of display selection isn't going to be optimal anyway.


I was thinking the same thing reading the first few pages. Vectors or whatever the new information is ... should only be displayed on the player's ship and the locked targets to reduce clutter and let us very easily decide which ships we want to pay attention to. New info should also shown on any ship selected or hovered over in the overview, so you can check on distant ships or fleets, or even maintain "eyes" on a nearby ship if you get jammed or sensor damped.

I agree that semi-cicles, dots or other shapes would not be as easy to read as a simple vector. We would have to mentally combine a dot (direction) with a semi-circle graph (magnitude) to visualize the vector in our minds, which is just as much work as we do currently. Cut out that middle step and use vectors, much less overhead and very intuitive.

Idea
Currently, when using the tactical overview and hovering the mouse over a module such as a gun, webifier, ecm jammer etc ... there is a shaded sphere displaying optimal range of that module. In the new system, add an icon or sliding scale on your targets depicting tracking when you hover over your guns, or a percentage chance to land a jam when hovering over an ecm module, etc.

Glad to hear you're onboard with the idea, this might turn into something exceptional.

-J

Kabaal S'sylistha
Caldari
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2010.11.13 07:48:00 - [106]
 


Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.11.22 16:12:00 - [107]
 

Thanks for the support everybody.

Originally by: Arctic Monkey
I was thinking the same thing reading the first few pages. Vectors or whatever the new information is ... should only be displayed on the player's ship and the locked targets to reduce clutter and let us very easily decide which ships we want to pay attention to. New info should also shown on any ship selected or hovered over in the overview, so you can check on distant ships or fleets, or even maintain "eyes" on a nearby ship if you get jammed or sensor damped.

Against the forced selectivity. I think we come from different backgrounds, maybe in great fleet battles that would be a good compromise as you wouldn't get much out of 150 vectors anyway. But in a small gang I need the info immediately, once I lock eone the battle is 90% over.

Moreover, there's a better way to present the kind of information you seek: you should imo be able to select 100 ships and see the average or median vectors. But I'll leave that proposal up to you ugh

Finally the two ideas are not exclusive to each other, I need them all, you need a selection, the solution is obvious: make the choice box for activating this feature a drop down combo instead (VECTORS: no (default)/all/selection only).

Please also keep in mind, regarding clutter, that the proposal asks for the option of selecting vectors based on the overview status, as already happens for ships and drones. You can remove your fleet's ships vectors for example, or keep only those if you are a logistics pilot.

Jahpahjay
Posted - 2010.11.22 16:46:00 - [108]
 

This would only help eve to be a better and--more importantly--far more fun game as it helps pilots to achieve greater immersion and strategically provocative gameplay. Supported.

Xynthiar
Gallente
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2010.11.22 16:47:00 - [109]
 


iLLeLogicaL
The Red Circle Inc.

Posted - 2010.12.15 12:01:00 - [110]
 

Hell yes.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service

Posted - 2010.12.15 16:22:00 - [111]
 

vectors for ships - cool
tactical detail overlays for selected targets - nice
360deg sphere background mapped on the skybox for tactical display - now we're cooking

/supported

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.12.15 16:28:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I am thinking maybe a circle around each ship, with 2 180-degree arcs. The top arc is transversal, the bottom one is radial, and a small triangle moves around the outside of the circle to indicate transversal direction.

Arc size would indicate magnitude; arc colors would indicate things like towards/away and how well your guns might track.

Thoughts?

Too complicated and overkill.
What you want on tactical overview is your position relative to others and where they're heading. Everything else like transversal/radial will come with experience from looking at this and with this comes your knowledge about tracking abilities.

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront

Posted - 2010.12.15 22:13:00 - [113]
 

Good idea, but it would get awfully messy with just 10 people per side .. poor display would look like a game of Mikado (Pick-up Sticks for you Yanks).

Perhaps:
1. Limit it to one selectable ship size at a time, or
2. Limit it to ships travelling faster than you.

Personally in favour of #2 as it adds to ability to spot when someone makes a mad-dash for something/someone.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions

Posted - 2010.12.15 22:52:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Good idea, but it would get awfully messy with just 10 people per side .. poor display would look like a game of Mikado (Pick-up Sticks for you Yanks).

Perhaps:
1. Limit it to one selectable ship size at a time, or
2. Limit it to ships travelling faster than you.

Personally in favour of #2 as it adds to ability to spot when someone makes a mad-dash for something/someone.

maybe show all this stuff for targeted ships only

Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
Posted - 2010.12.16 00:49:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
maybe show all this stuff for targeted ships only

Would be near perfect if it wasn't for the atrocious locking range of the ships to which speed matters most: Lights.

Just the idea of being able to open the overlay and be able to see movement of ships grid wide makes me salivate .. very Homeworldy Very Happy

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.12.16 04:53:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
*snip*

maybe show all this stuff for targeted ships only

I would prefer to see this also when I'm dampened/jammed please..

Candente
Caldari
Posted - 2010.12.16 20:43:00 - [117]
 

Supported... only if there's a convenient way to turn on and off the overlay to avoid screen gets messy :p

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2011.01.04 16:34:00 - [118]
 

Edited by: Yankunytjatjara on 04/01/2011 16:35:42
Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Originally by: Ephemeron
maybe show all this stuff for targeted ships only

Would be near perfect if it wasn't for the atrocious locking range of the ships to which speed matters most: Lights.

Just the idea of being able to open the overlay and be able to see movement of ships grid wide makes me salivate .. very Homeworldy Very Happy


Thanks for the support.
About your critics, I respectfully disagree:
- locked ships: bad, once something's locked in frig combat the fight is mostly over.
- only ten, or only quicker than you: it becomes really confusing when there are some who pulse the mwd.
The solution is to provide a proper filter, so that the user is able to exclude ships from his fleet/corp/alliance, as it currently works with the overview tabs. Of course for large fleet battles this is less useful, but the tactical overlay can be turned off quickly, and any client side lag this would generate is therefore not an issue.

EDIT on a second thought, adding a shortcut to turn on and off the overlay seems a good point for this proposal. I will edit the first post accordingly.

Millerchill
Minmatar
Nexus point

Posted - 2011.01.05 00:49:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: EdwardNardella
DO WANT along with other tactical overlay upgrades


Yes and yes

Lusulpher
Gallente

Posted - 2011.01.26 11:44:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Mjana
Absolutely /signed.
EVE needs more visual indicators for vital information like this.

I mean come on, it's a SPACESHIP simulation. We're flying ships in the size of cities, being wired to the ship's hardware to improve reaction time but we still have to look up speed vectors in long tables or analyze movement manually?

^ This, and bump, and support vectored in for intercept with coding at CCP. Hopefully.


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