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blankseplocked tactical overview option for solo/small gangs: Ship Velocity Vectors
 
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Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.05.28 09:16:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Yankunytjatjara on 09/09/2011 15:00:59
TL;DR:
  • add to the tactical overlay a representation of ships' speed in the form of speed vectors (a segment originating from the ships of length proportional to speed) well visible at any level of zoom.

  • This feature should be an option of the esc menu to save on client cpu in case of need (big fleet fights)

  • The overview should have a new filter to decide what ships show the speed vector (out of fleet, reds, dramiels only Wink...) and the segment would be of the same colour as the top corresponding overview colour (fleet/same militia/same corp/etc)


When doing a 1v1, I usually 'look at' my target to see what he's doing and anticipate the reaction time. When the numbers grow, I switch the look at between the various enemies, but it becomes impossible after a little number of targets.

Resorting to the overview, with its lagged and sporadic changes, is not enough, and also the overview is hard to follow when there's more than a handful of ships in the encounter. A graphic overview - in addition to the table - is needed.

Solution: ships show a vector that points in the direction where they're going, of length proportional to the ship's speed: a speed vector. Zoom level does not affect the vector length. This permits, at a glance, to see where everybody's moving to, even if zoomed out. A shortcut key to turn on and off the tactical overlay would be welcome.

Possible variants:
- smoke trails. The problem is that smoke trails disappear zooming out, I want this to be visible at large zoom levels to help small gang warfare. The two don't exclude each other anyway! Also, a vector causes much less performance issues.

Possible problems:
- lag
-- server side lag: none. The vector is a client only thing, the client builds it based on info it already gets, no new server coding is needed
-- client side lag: possible. To avoid it completely, add an option under graphics in the esc menu to remove the speed vectors.

- crowded overview: possible. The overview filter should accommodate a new option to extend filters done for the overview to the speed vectors. You could then show or not the speed vectors based on the friendly/unfriendly/in fleet/... status of the ships.

Please support me! I am for small gangs warfare!

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.28 09:39:00 - [2]
 

Great idea, thought about that too.

Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Zoom level does not affect the vector length. This permits, at a glance, to see where everybody's moving to, even if zoomed out.
Not really sure about this one tho. IMO, vector should represent distance ship will travel in a certain timeframe (with speed it has at the moment) so you can predict it's location (more or less) using tactical overview gird.

Also vector should be projected to tactical overview gird (similiar to ship location) to make it easier a bit.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations

Posted - 2010.05.28 09:43:00 - [3]
 

tl;dr: Bring back trails

yani dumyat
Minmatar
Pixie Cats

Posted - 2010.05.28 11:49:00 - [4]
 

Do want.

Hereon Herinnger
Gallente
The Scope

Posted - 2010.05.28 19:40:00 - [5]
 

+1. It should stay the same size with zoom, otherwise you won't be able to see it at either end (either off the screen or too small). It should turn on/off with tactical overlay.

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.05.28 22:55:00 - [6]
 

Thanks for the support! <3

Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
Zoom level does not affect the vector length. This permits, at a glance, to see where everybody's moving to, even if zoomed out.
Not really sure about this one tho. IMO, vector should represent distance ship will travel in a certain timeframe


It's important to see them when zoomed out, because even small gang engagements can be at fairly long distances. Maybe change the vectors when zooming but not so much as the zoom would make them as a compromise.

Maksim Cammeren
Posted - 2010.05.28 23:12:00 - [7]
 


Princess Elea
Posted - 2010.05.28 23:16:00 - [8]
 

great idea

Mynxee
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.05.28 23:35:00 - [9]
 

Your suggestions would be a useful addition to the tactical overlay.

EdwardNardella
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2010.05.28 23:58:00 - [10]
 

DO WANT along with other tactical overlay upgrades

Pugshoes
Posted - 2010.05.29 00:03:00 - [11]
 

It's a great idea.

The programmers need to get away from their anal attachment to drop down tables. this isn't a hobbit cave anymore guys- get into the 21st century!!! It should all be visual- tip- copy the US and UK armies on how they fly their drones nowadays...

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club

Posted - 2010.05.29 00:11:00 - [12]
 

Instead we get overview refreshing every 3 seconds now. Anyway, supported.

Syris Anu
Blue Republic

Posted - 2010.05.29 00:18:00 - [13]
 

LIke one of the posters said, we did have this at one time as trails and they should definitely be reinstated.

Orion Shadowmaker
Blue Republic
Posted - 2010.05.29 01:06:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Orion Shadowmaker on 29/05/2010 01:07:10
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
TL;DR:
  • add to the tactical overlay a representation of ships' speed in the form of speed vectors (a white segment originating from the ships of length proportional to speed) well visible at any level of zoom.

  • This feature should be an option of the esc menu to save on client cpu in case of need (big fleet fights)

  • The overview should have a new filter to decide what ships show the speed vector (out of fleet, reds, dramiels only Wink...)



Great idea YanK!!

Orion Shadowmaker YARRRR!!

Lykouleon
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.05.29 03:02:00 - [15]
 

good lord this would be awesome

Dograzor
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2010.05.29 08:33:00 - [16]
 

Do want.

Gigiarc
Gallente
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.05.29 08:54:00 - [17]
 


Ceruza
Posted - 2010.05.29 11:16:00 - [18]
 

This is a great idea, as people said, the trails are wanted back.

I'thari
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.29 12:49:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
It's important to see them when zoomed out, because even small gang engagements can be at fairly long distances. Maybe change the vectors when zooming but not so much as the zoom would make them as a compromise.
I agree that if it's just velocity vectors (not proportional to tactical gird) it's better to leave them more or less intact while zooming. But (if possible) having more information than "he goes that way and looks faster than the next guy" (I know you can check actuall velocity in overview, but still) would be nice. Something like distance traveled in 10s +/- should be visible enough, I think (that really depends on ship type, ofc)... but doesn't really matter as long as we'll have something.

I just hope that if it's ever implemented vectors won't be white... or at least visible enough. And having small icons for every ship hull (like the one we have for capsule) would be nice too. Rolling Eyes

Dztrgovac
Posted - 2010.05.29 12:51:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Dztrgovac on 29/05/2010 12:51:00
Great idea. Supported. Sadly I dont think anything will ever happen, its not the first nor 25th time it was suggested, and every single time it was greeted with unanimous player support.

Please CCP, make useless tactical overlay useful.

Case Kovacs
Amarr
Blue Republic
Posted - 2010.05.29 14:52:00 - [21]
 

Great idea!

Stubnitz
Brutor Tribe

Posted - 2010.05.30 10:45:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Stubnitz on 30/05/2010 10:45:32
Supported!

Laya Hangover
Posted - 2010.05.30 11:53:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Laya Hangover on 30/05/2010 11:53:36
+1 we need this

asamas
Posted - 2010.05.30 16:34:00 - [24]
 

Great idea

H0mer
Posted - 2010.05.31 02:32:00 - [25]
 

Oh yes, gimme!

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.05.31 08:59:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: I'thari
Originally by: Yankunytjatjara
It's important to see them when zoomed out, because even small gang engagements can be at fairly long distances. Maybe change the vectors when zooming but not so much as the zoom would make them as a compromise.
I agree that if it's just velocity vectors (not proportional to tactical gird) it's better to leave them more or less intact while zooming. But (if possible) having more information than "he goes that way and looks faster than the next guy" (I know you can check actuall velocity in overview, but still) would be nice. Something like distance traveled in 10s +/- should be visible enough, I think (that really depends on ship type, ofc)... but doesn't really matter as long as we'll have something.


I see what you mean, but I think that seeing the vectors on all levels of zoom is a bit more important. The information you seek can be more or less understood by comparing your own speed and your own velocity vector.

ON THE OTHER HAND, an idea: if the vectors show also a 'knot' (1 pixel wider or something) every say, minute of flight, you'd get your information perfectly :)

May be a bit too much to ask perhaps.

Kelniun
Posted - 2010.06.01 06:21:00 - [27]
 

This would be a great help, though I am in the camp that thinks the arrows should be proportional to the distance traveled in some period of time, rather than scaled with zoom. Primary reason for this is that scaling it with zoom makes the length arbitrary (as zoom is arbitrary), and thus, arrow size becomes almost meaningless. The best compromise would be to allow the player to choose how many seconds of travel (aka scaling factor) that the arrows will represent. For the person that keeps the overview fairly zoomed out, choose a large scaling factor so they are still visible.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.

Posted - 2010.06.01 10:10:00 - [28]
 

I like the general idea but think it needs a bit more development. For example, velocity vector isn't the only thing you would be interested in; it might also help to know the envelope (the approximate surface that represents the places the target could reach in a certain period of time) based on what you know.

Furthermore, some thought has to be given to unintended consequences; this kind of vector would, for example, make it easier to figure out where a target is trying to warp to.

Yankunytjatjara
Amarr
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.06.01 13:04:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow
I like the general idea but think it needs a bit more development. For example, velocity vector isn't the only thing you would be interested in; it might also help to know the envelope (the approximate surface that represents the places the target could reach in a certain period of time) based on what you know.

Furthermore, some thought has to be given to unintended consequences; this kind of vector would, for example, make it easier to figure out where a target is trying to warp to.


The envelope concept seems to be strictly zoom dependent, because if you zoom out the envelope would become littler. This seems to be the opposite of what I proposed. What I wrote also is quite simple, and the devs could build without a lot of effort.

About warping to, if you 'look at' a ship you can already understand that, or even if you keep it centered while it's warping. So yes it is an easier way to get information... But info that you already have.

About arrows - the vector imo shouldn't have arrows, as you can see where it starts and ends thanks to the ship brackets in space.

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2010.06.01 15:56:00 - [30]
 

Good idea.


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