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Harralt
Posted - 2010.06.28 02:18:00 - [241]
 

Edited by: Harralt on 28/06/2010 02:22:08
I disagree.

The learning skills add a learning curve to the game which is direclty representative of eve itself. You dont just jump into a hulk, go to 0.0 and profit like in other MMO's where if you learn where the good ****e is you can just go there and take it. No.

This is eve, first you must learn how to get that ore, get the cruiser, then level up to get the mining barge, finally the hulk after about a month of hard work. Boy does it feel good now that you have it!?

Same goes with PVP. Those T2 guns are a pain-in-the-royal-arse to get, but they are worth it! Especially in those ships that require them to be really effective.

I have nothing to lose from this and i STILL do not support it because it made me think about what i wanted to do and train those skills in the order in which best made my char. I absolutely do not want an eve universe where character planning is any less valuable than planning for mass market takeovers or POS assaults.

To all Posters that think that this is "pointless time sinking" then you are wrong. Why not just remove the skill system all together then? After all, its just TIME SINKING! Why not just BUY skills? After all, why would you want to WAIT to get something important in the game?

To all of you, i say join WoW where you can go on end-game raids at the end of a week of game play.

Tl:DL?
Long story short, This is EVE. Thought = proficiency. Planning = Profit. Work = reward. Risk = Reward.

Snyder Aringdon
Gray Rogue Squadron

Posted - 2010.06.28 02:42:00 - [242]
 

Supported.

Stripping learning skills does not strip the ability to make your character unique. 5-year vets have had significant benefits from learning skills; newer players will fail to see the math pay out for them over the next couple years as they get omgwtfpwnsauced by said vets.

S'qarpium D'igil
Posted - 2010.06.28 23:25:00 - [243]
 

Supported

sophiaeu
Posted - 2010.06.28 23:48:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: Dzajic
Originally by: Fournone
To train or not train learning skills is just another part of eve. Its like deciding to train for a hulk or for better mining lasers, to training faster weapon cycle or longer range. Its a tactical decision that all players face. If you don't like them, don't train them. I'm happy to pronounce that I got almost all of them to 5 and cruising along most skills.


Completely ridiculous. There is no way around it, you have to train learning skills, period. That is the problem, there is no choice. They might as well be mandatory, and the more you delay learning them the more time you lose.



How so?, Im a noob (2 accounts less than 12 months old) and dont want these removed, I have two accounts one character has all learnin done pimped out call it what you want, the other barley has 5/4 combo of the basic learnin done,their sp time is basically the same after I remapped the basic learnin one and I wont get the benefitsof a fullly learned char for a few years, really people need to stop moaning about the learnin skills they are not that bad and evil,if you want to dumb out EVE I guess this is the step ccp will take but I hope not.

sophiaeu
Posted - 2010.06.29 01:52:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Cyrus Doul
Originally by: Fitz VonHeise
Edited by: Fitz VonHeise on 24/06/2010 19:52:02

I've spent over 2 billion isk on Improved Learning implants (+5's) for many alts.

How will CCP deal with people who now have Learning implants that will soon train nothing?


fitz please tell me that was a troll.

and for you people that are saying not supported. Once again let me reiterate. THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN! CCP said it is going to once they can figure out how to do it properly. .)



Please point out and link where ccp say this I'm most Intrested.....this should be good.

Sard Caid
Gunpoint Diplomacy

Posted - 2010.06.29 04:19:00 - [246]
 

+1

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.06.29 04:51:00 - [247]
 

Originally by: sophiaeu
Originally by: Cyrus Doul
Once again let me reiterate. THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN! CCP said it is going to once they can figure out how to do it properly. .)



Please point out and link where ccp say this I'm most Intrested.....this should be good.

Fast forward to the 38 minute mark of this video.

Personally I would prefer to see +12 in all attribute points and skip the 10% bonus. The end result will be almost the same amount of SP/year but we don't have to mess about with decimal points for the attributes removing even more confusion for new players reading their character sheets.

TriIIian
Posted - 2010.06.29 08:06:00 - [248]
 

Edited by: TriIIian on 29/06/2010 08:13:40

Learning skills do nothing for the great game that is Eve. I'm sure they were great when they were brought in, giving everyone a chance to train quicker. The only good thing about them is that chance to train quicker. There is no other reason for them.

eve wouldnt lose anything from removing learning skills, but it might get more people to play.

People say theres not enough people in low or nul sec. removing learning skills might be a way to get more people to play Eve. more people playing Eve means more people in low and nul sec. More people to shoot at.

But the people that do have them trained (especilly 5/5) should be reimbursed those skill points. As OP said, we also need the +11 attributes otherwise training will be to slow.

+1 Nice idea OP

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.06.29 08:24:00 - [249]
 

I've been staring at this thread for some time... weighing out the pros and cons of it.

Honestly, I hate Learning skills. I remember juggling between them and skills I actually NEEDED when I started the game. Now, a year later, I look back at them and wonder... why?

I support the removal of learning skills and the proposed means to compensate for their loss.

Liandra Xi
Amarr
The New Era
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2010.06.29 08:41:00 - [250]
 

supported.

Jollygood69

Posted - 2010.06.29 11:20:00 - [251]
 

Supported.

Remove them. It takes a long time anyway to train many of the skills.

Option could be to remove the learning skills but keep the possibility to have implants.

Marked Ugler
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.06.29 12:30:00 - [252]
 

they are like cancer- it hurts to remove them, but you've gotta do it for the grater good. You've got to remove the cancer to save then entire body.

Kangtar
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.29 12:35:00 - [253]
 

Edited by: Kangtar on 29/06/2010 12:36:01
Originally by: sophiaeu
Please point out and link where ccp say this I'm most Intrested.....this should be good.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAgUwEztj28

Starts about 38 minutes in, after you've watched it you can go bask in your own stupidity. I'd find more but you're not worth the effort.

Rellik B00n
Posted - 2010.06.29 13:34:00 - [254]
 

Edited by: Rellik B00n on 29/06/2010 13:33:54
hi,

supported: the intelligent choice is to remove them, OPs solution is simple but effective.

when is a choice not a choice? When its EvE online learning skills.
The choice argument holds no water.
Resistance to this change is very similar to Sepp Blatter's stance on goaline technology:
Age resists change. Sepp thinks this new-fangled technology thing is dangerous for the sport - the rest of the world disagree.
Ironically change has been forced upon him.

If an elderly gent like Sepp can roll with the necessary changes then I think that those not supporting this can too. And For the same reason: it is a completely necessary change for the good of the game.

colt steele
Minmatar
Timmerovi Heavy Production Corp

Posted - 2010.06.29 14:16:00 - [255]
 

supported

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:16:00 - [256]
 

For those that learned the Learning skills, CCP should allow those players to redistribute the skill points in other fields and get compensated for the skill book cost. Also, these pilots should retain a subtle speed bonus based upon how advanced they were with the whole tree. Thus those that had it maxed out should have this bonus for about two years, slowly weakening over time.

And then it is over.

No, there should NOT be a free-for-all attribute bonus for everyone. People constantly demand the removal of this set of skills. So CCP should remove them and call it a day. Let everyone train at the rate of those that never trained the Learning skills. People want their cake and eat it too - screw it. Let players train with attributes they set-up through the neural remapping and implants they can afford.

Yep, this will harm me too, but too many whiners demanding the removal AND the bonus they entailed all on one silver plate.

Let's really make this a cold, harsh game again.

Xordel
Pilipino Corp
Posted - 2010.06.29 14:19:00 - [257]
 

Edited by: Xordel on 29/06/2010 15:39:32
Edited by: Xordel on 29/06/2010 14:38:03
All the counter arguments say the same thing removes depth and planning of the game.

removes depth and planning in what way? would it make the game more shallow if we remove them how so? the hundreds of skill even without the learning skills already makes the game so deep that even 4yr vets cant obtain all this skills look at this dude here http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1071349 took him 6yrs rofl Very Happy to train everything in my opinion that's enough depth and planning for game.

Those 2 factors would still exist im sure its already hard enough to plan and add depth in the game with the 300+ skills that would remain in the game. The only thing that is stopping CCP from doing this is its a game breaking update. So its best to plan the skill compensation along with implants and other skill affecting factors in the game, making a mistake here would probably break the game. But all in all i don't see anything wrong taking out the learning skills specially when there is compensation.

Soo what other reasons are there to oppose removal of learning skills do you have that mentality of only REAL HARDCORE EVE PLAYERS deserve to play this game. Then you should look for a "Life Transplant" come on people should start treating this as a game it should involve that level of depth and planning which makes this game unique but adding too much unnecessary depth such as learning skills would make it a burden and taxing for some people. Unnecessary i say because in reality nobody would pay 1 month to train a learning 3/5 4/5 toon just to be able train other skills at sub-par level with other players. Im arguing in the middle ground wherein a player "plans" on training decent learning and some industrial or pvp skills. This creates the learning curve they say but in reality its more of train learning skill first and be useless for a month. Just imagine an eager new player wanting to start manufacturing/mining/pewpew gets parked for month and looses interest. That's why I'm making my first meaningful forum post to support this. Twisted Evil Twisted Evil



Alvin Exe
Corporation.exe

Posted - 2010.06.29 14:22:00 - [258]
 

Simple and efficient way to suppress learning skills.
And I wouldnt mind having 2M SP free to invest in something else Laughing

Lina Theist
Amarr
War Veteran Pension

Posted - 2010.06.29 15:14:00 - [259]
 

Just because I don't want my newer friends to leave Eve because they can't be bothered to train learning early on and then ragequit because they don't have their 100% bonus... lol...

Supported

Takseen
Posted - 2010.06.29 15:35:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Takseen on 29/06/2010 15:36:38
Originally by: Harralt
Edited by: Harralt on 28/06/2010 02:22:08
I disagree.

The learning skills add a learning curve to the game which is direclty representative of eve itself. You dont just jump into a hulk, go to 0.0 and profit like in other MMO's where if you learn where the good ****e is you can just go there and take it. No.

This is eve, first you must learn how to get that ore, get the cruiser, then level up to get the mining barge, finally the hulk after about a month of hard work. Boy does it feel good now that you have it!?

[/b]


Yes, that's how the mining career path works, only you left out the prerequisite learning skills which add nothing to the experience. Let me put it another way. What would be the benefits of adding them to the game if they didn't exist already?

And hard work? Please don't delude yourself. Patience is all it takes.

Edit : Also, there's very little decision-making involved since Evemon does all the calculations for you. Decide what skills you want, it tells you what learning skills to add on to reduce the time taken. Ooh, deep.

MNagy
Posted - 2010.06.29 16:43:00 - [261]
 

Thought of something reading other peoples posts ( as i am apposed to getting rid of them ).

Seems like the posts are moreso for newbie players so they play the game rather than 'skill up on learning'.

Why not do something like this:
If you got the skills in cue - thats fine keep em they stay as are.
Otherwise,
They are not available till you have an X amount of Skill points.... 3 mill or something.

Its a bonus for later on to speed up learning.

I would be upset if they got rid of them all together as I have skilled up significantly with them for the payoff down the road.

Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
Posted - 2010.06.29 17:04:00 - [262]
 

As a four year old EVE player I fully support the removal of all learning skills, the reimbursement of all SP, to be distributed as you please, and the addition of +10 attributes +10%. However, I'd still like to see remapping unless CCP are going to show, like in the old character creation screens, how attributes are distributed. If CCP don't allow remapping, or the distribution of attributes, as you wish, I will not support this.

So, while I'm supporting what OP's posted I'd like it to be done right and not the CCP way. After all, who wants to have the bloodlines with totally messed up stats, e.g. 17 Perception, 11 Willpower and 20 Charisma as a PVP bloodline. And before anyone here says CCP won't do that I'd like to point out all the other total ****ups CCP couldn't possibly have got wrong but did regardless.

Daniel Farore
Gallente
EVE University
Ivy League
Posted - 2010.06.29 19:19:00 - [263]
 

Fully support this idea.

I hate having to train learning skills again and again. You create an alt, what do you do first? Train learning skills. Even for a simple alt with a few specific skills on the same account you need for a specific purpose. (hauling, exploration, trading) EVEMon will suggest you train at least some learning skills.
They take time and keep you from training for the fun stuff in EVE rather than train for training those things.
With the new SP feature it would be even easier to refund those SP people put into learning skills.

As for the statement it is a solution looking for a problem: New players get into the game, if they have someone around giving them advice it usually also says: Train learning skills early. New players cannot afford the advance learning skills, they don't enjoy playing while they only have learning skill and thus lacking combat/mining/exploration skills in that time. Means they might quit sooner.
They can off course choose not to do so, but most people will regret it later. Because then they no longer have the double training speed which you get below 1.6m SP and those learning skills take even longer to train, thus are even more anoying.

Hito Nobu
Posted - 2010.06.29 19:28:00 - [264]
 

I just made an account and learned learning skills are a wise investment early on. Also used EVEMon and made a plan for about 9 months. Quite a lot of learning skills were recommended. But I don't feel like investing everything I earn into those expensive (4.5mil each!Shocked) skill books. I could buy a nice cruiser for that. For all of them I'd have enough for a Battlecruiser almost. At least I got a couple of attribute implants for free which was nice. But I'm not suggesting I need to have that ISK refunded for those expensive books if this goes through, I'd be happy enough not having to train them so high and use that time on something else.

Belsazzar
Posted - 2010.06.29 20:19:00 - [265]
 


Natalia Kovac
Minmatar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.06.30 00:18:00 - [266]
 

Supported, learning skills add nothing to the game and are just a timesink that you need to get over for every new character.

Plus, now that the infrastructure is there to give out SP (the free 100K SP they gave everyone for the server move screwup), it should be relatively easy to refund the SP used in training learning skills and allow us to spend it on whatever skill we want.

This would be a great move by CCP, come on do it, and show us that you are not so stubborn as to stand in the face of all reason.

Nikol Keselova
Caldari
Posted - 2010.06.30 00:19:00 - [267]
 

Supported. Desperately needed.

Viral Effect
Caldari
BRAINDEAD Corp
Posted - 2010.06.30 07:34:00 - [268]
 

No. Not supported.

If learning skills are deemed to be removed why not give everyone them and then give the players that have already learnt them some free SP.

JitaBum
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.06.30 14:38:00 - [269]
 

Absolutely supported, they are a TERRIBLE mechanic. People who support them are only looking out for themselves

Lugalzagezi666
Posted - 2010.06.30 15:45:00 - [270]
 

Supported.
The sooner it will be done the better.


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