open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [Proposal] Learning skills solution
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25]

Author Topic

silent hunter44
Posted - 2010.11.25 05:17:00 - [721]
 

I have always trained the learning skills to a minimum of 5/4 on my accounts and have always hated it as it wasted basically a month of time before the toon can even start training on things that will make it a better pilot so maybe it will help if we look at it this way:

Keep the learning skills: Causes new players to curse at EVE, hate it and never play again

Remove them completely: Makes 7 year old pilot a bit angry, Why the hell should you care youve trained everything you wanted already HTFU and they won't quit EVE over it

Skills kept means a slower growth rate of players for EVE, get rid of them and that rate increases creating larger fleets/corps/alliances and of course fun.

Mai Wei
Posted - 2010.11.25 06:35:00 - [722]
 

The arguments for the removal or modification of the Learning skills are ridiculous. You all want them removed because they are a hindrance to training skills that make you a better pilot. That's exactly what training those skills do. They allow you to train at a faster rate making you a better pilot faster.

In my opinion, you're all a bunch of whiners.

The patience gained from training Learning, Social, Leadership and Trade is invaluable for the new pilot in later EVE adventures. Without that patience, gate camping and pvp roams would never get organized. The patience needed to do the same missions over and over would never develop. Mining would never happen. EVE is a game of patience. Even a lone wolf ambusher needs patience going from belt to belt, system to system to find the right target.

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.25 07:29:00 - [723]
 

Originally by: Mai Wei
nonsense


I disagree wholeheartedly. Games are meant to be fun, and the described activities are fun in themselves (yes, even mining, for some people, or bots, tmmv). Spinning in station? Not fun. The only thing that paying 15 dollars a month for spinning in station teaches is that you could be doing better with your 15 dollars.

How do I know this? because I have heard it from numerous people who have quit the game, some I introduced, some I didn't, who came here looking for the stuff in the trailers and found... the learnings.

Recognizing terrible design, design that chases away new players and encourages and rewards tedium and boredom, doesn't make one a whiner. I would say that it would show more concern for the future of the game and about it in general than self serving bittervet postures from people that have trained all they cared to and want to keep their advantage forever, doing their utmost to make eve as boring and pointless as possible as to never have to compete with anyone or lose their imaginary edge over the barely growing wastelands of new eden.

No, the whiners would be those closed to reason who stick to the way it is because they see it as a hindrance to new blood, and as such, good, in a perverse and nonsensical way. People who would make every facet of the game as tedious as possible. In short, you.

Kaya Divine
Gallente
Kittens Factory
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:27:00 - [724]
 

So CCP finally started to listen all the wise words in this topic.

http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=824

Personally I believed that they are lazy...Now I acknowledge them as dudes who can acknowledge good ideas.

Thank you all who gave yours versions of ideas, only to have one super idea which gave birth right here.

And some celebration music:

ojha!

Ilvrak
Posted - 2010.11.25 13:39:00 - [725]
 

Плюс ко всем постам против этого изменения.
Игра - это абстракция реальности.
В реале лернинги существуют:
Мы можем учиться учИться. Изучать скорочтение, логику различные парадигмы мышления и так далее. Ева отличается этим от всех остальных линеек и варкрафтов, что это игра для интеллектуалов, которые по жизни все время учатся и учатся учИться. Если это убрать, то она станет обычной игрой для задротов. Она уже в такую превращается неумолимо. Все попсеет и попсеет. Это отвратительно. Таково моё мнение.

Not supported. Not supported. Not supported.

NWhisper
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:42:00 - [726]
 

Not supported. worst change:(

Zaboth Garadath
Amarr
Ore Extraction Corporation
Posted - 2010.11.25 14:44:00 - [727]
 

Originally by: NWhisper
Not supported. worst change:(


Too Late!

Oh, only if you had said so before CCP made a blog about it!

You could have stopped it!

We would have learning skills forevermore!





no but really, too late m8

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:39:00 - [728]
 

All the bitter vets will cry now.

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:47:00 - [729]
 

CCP has just handed bittervets our single largest bonus in the history of EVE. Not only have we benefited from learning skills for years now, but we also get millions of skillpoints that we can invest wherever we want now.

It still would've been best not to institute this change, but for a change that was supposed to benefit new players CCP just granted an overwhelmingly huge bonus to older players. Want racial dread or carrier to V? Okay, that train will take you about 5 seconds. FC to V? Well, almost. Most bitter vets can go from leadership V to half way through FC V in, yep, five seconds once the boost goes through.

CCP's just made vets even more overwhelmingly beyond new players in terms of sp's.

WiddlyScuds
Posted - 2010.11.25 15:59:00 - [730]
 

Im still confused by this and need a straight answer.

1. Will the removal of learning skills hurt the training time bonus that I currently have?
2. If it dosent how is it being fixed I get that the points are being added to the attributes but im still confused to the reason of why.
3. If the learning skills are being removed will there be another way to decrease the time that it takes to train a skill by increasing your base attributes with out a neural remap or implants?

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:54:00 - [731]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
CCP's just made vets even more overwhelmingly beyond new players in terms of sp's.


You're not thinking it through, Finn.

Yeah, vets get the SP's to apply now. But noobs are instantly equal to vets in training rate, whereas normally they would have to spend time (X months) to train up learning skills equal to the vets. And at the end of that X month time period, they will have applied to their non-learning skills the same SP that the vets are getting refunded. So it comes out in the wash.

Both sides win, they just win in slightly different ways: Noobs train faster in the early months than they would have, which means they get to do more of the basic things faster. Vets get to apply some SP now, and have more opportunities for training arbitrage.

There are some edge cases where some people get slightly disadvantaged (and I am one of them, I set up a training plan just before CCP told CSM they wanted to do this, and I stuck to it despite my inside knowledge), but overall it is a big win for everyone.

Yes, noobs will never catch up with vets. But they were never going to do that anyway. And in any case, the real reason for this change IMHO is making the game a bit more noob-friendly.


Tityna Jama
Posted - 2010.11.25 17:58:00 - [732]
 

better fix lag

Machinegunner Bob
Posted - 2010.11.25 18:00:00 - [733]
 

Not supported, bad idea.
The EVE is differ in case with other MMORPG's with it's freedom of choice, and training 'useless' learning with next faster, or instant training 'must-have' skills is a part of that freedom. And you are want to kill a part of soul of EVE. I'll never agree with it.
Thanks to all for attention.

Norfinn
Posted - 2010.11.25 18:16:00 - [734]
 

Not supported. worst change:(Evil or Very Mad

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.11.25 18:44:00 - [735]
 

Originally by: FinnAgain Zero
CCP has just handed bittervets our single largest bonus in the history of EVE. Not only have we benefited from learning skills for years now, but we also get millions of skillpoints that we can invest wherever we want now.

It still would've been best not to institute this change, but for a change that was supposed to benefit new players CCP just granted an overwhelmingly huge bonus to older players. Want racial dread or carrier to V? Okay, that train will take you about 5 seconds. FC to V? Well, almost. Most bitter vets can go from leadership V to half way through FC V in, yep, five seconds once the boost goes through.

CCP's just made vets even more overwhelmingly beyond new players in terms of sp's.


Yeah, someone should make a Law! Cool

Chillax, bro. The decision has been made, so take the money (well, the SP) and save your energy for a more important battle.

Galleintak
Gallente
Procion technologies
SUB ZERO Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 19:13:00 - [736]
 

Edited by: Galleintak on 25/11/2010 19:13:51
big failEvil or Very Mad
a whole demension of eve removed forever especially for newbs
millions of free sp - only makes it more after u finished to distribute them (cause u got smth u wanted without effort)

Gallians
Posted - 2010.11.25 19:17:00 - [737]
 

Originally by: Galleintak
Edited by: Galleintak on 25/11/2010 19:13:51
big failEvil or Very Mad
a whole demension of eve removed forever especially for newbs
millions of free sp - only makes it more after u finished to distribute them (cause u got smth u wanted without effort)


Big win! The whole demension consisted in spinning in station while paying monthly fees. A demension indeed.

Truly, a solution where everyone wins, noobs don't have to spin, bittervets are happy, everyone is happy.

Except for.. what do you call those things under bridges?... starts with a t or something.. its in the tip of my tongue.

MNagy
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:09:00 - [738]
 

Even though I was in favour of keeping the learning skills, the fact that I get
my months of training back in sp that I can flush somewhere else I am content with.
To me- this got rid of a little element of the 'sandbox' where a player choses to skill or not to skill.

But - with that said....
Fair to 99.9% of all people - everyone gets their training time back - lets start playing the game and stop beating this "dead horse" as it has been solved / patched.

See you all in the game.

Cheers'

FinnAgain Zero
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.25 20:42:00 - [739]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

You're not thinking it through, Finn.


No U!
I mean, am too!

In any case it does come out in the wash over time, but instantly all of us vets can invest points into Noob Ganking V where new pilots will still have to spend time training up ****ting Up Local to IV before they can skill up for Tear Extraction V.
So new players get to train up a bit faster to match older player rates, but older players can train up almost any skill in the game to V, instantly.

You are correct though, this change was largely instituted to help out new players and make their beginning game more friendly. I, for one, will do my part and skill up for some artie thrasher alts.

Originally by: Malcanis

Chillax, bro. The decision has been made, so take the money (well, the SP) and save your energy for a more important battle.


Oh, I'm chill. No argument here, just trying to figure out what I'm going to spend my noob-hammeringly-huge pool of free sp's on. Maybe I'll just keep a pool of them to deal with potential T3 losses.

Captain Libido
Posted - 2010.11.25 23:33:00 - [740]
 

Edited by: Captain Libido on 25/11/2010 23:33:29
Please for the sake of Mind do not change the working system as long as it is not broken.
If you ask the casual eve player why he likes eve he will mention the awesome skill system in front of all facts so why change it?
It just makes no sense.
People just don't get that eve is not about skills its about fun and you don't need the biggest ship to have that fun besides even if you train for that big ship straightaway you get it faster than if you train all learning skills at V before starting to play the game.

The only proposition that would make the new system we already have, with the double SP till 1.6 mil, any better would be if the players that choose different ancestries get some
learning skills. like if you choose Minmatar military soldier you get perc., adv. perc. and willpower skill at iV. Rest you would have to train like all the rest. If you choose to play as Amarr Business then ofc you will get other starting learning skills at iV. Maybe increase the double learn bonus cap to 1.6mil+the amount of sp you get in those learnings but that's not even necessary.
That system would allow the players to train those skills of the profession they have chosen at the creation of character. Later on they can change that spec. They got 2 remaps for that.

The Players that quit eve because of learning skills will be the players that quit eve as soon as they notice that there are skills in game that take over one month to train like carrier or freighter. Or they will whine on the forums for as long as it takes to break CCP and remove the whole skill system.

My English is not as good as i would like it to be but i hope someone will get my point.
I did not train the learning skills at V i did that after i could fly a dominix with shieldtank and t2 med drones.

The best solution for those learning skills would be that those people that tell all the newbies to train those at the beginning get banned or at least removed from forums because of giving bad advice.

Moon Destroyer
Red Alliance
Posted - 2010.11.26 12:12:00 - [741]
 

Great move CCP.

It'll increase people's wish for playing EVE, because now it's geting easier to start. I didn't expect you gonna do it.
Be ready to have +50 000 players this year. But you better deal with laggs we have.

P.S. You should have done it earlier


Pages: first : previous : ... 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 [25]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only