open All Channels
seplocked Assembly Hall
blankseplocked [Proposal] Learning skills solution
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 ... : last (25)

Author Topic

Bomberlocks
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
Posted - 2010.07.04 22:03:00 - [391]
 

/Supported. Learning skills are part of the problem for newer players (3 months training learning skills before you even leave station???). Dump em and reimburse the players for their wasted time.

SammyullJackson
Posted - 2010.07.04 22:09:00 - [392]
 

Originally by: Bomberlocks
(3 months training learning skills before you even leave station???)


this is funny because its a blatant fallacy

but okay, keep believing what you want to

Nnamuachs
Caldari
Kiith Paktu
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.07.05 01:10:00 - [393]
 

Originally by: Kaya Divine
Intro: Some of you are aware that CCP wants to remove those, but they are still searching for a solution which would benefit the most players. So I meditated and figured out solution. Which is easy to program and implement. And which will not make people angry.

Solution

  • 1. Add 10 points + 10% to all characters attributes


10 points is the value of maxed learning skills, 10% is a bonus to value gained by maxed Learning skill.

  • 2. Remove all learning skills.


Like they never existed.

  • 3. SP which player had been invested in Learning will be redistributed through faster learning time lets say 10000% faster.


Lets say for example you have 4m SP in learning. You will get bonus to SP accumulation with a same value. So you will not lose any SP but it would be redistributed to your current skill plan in total value which would be exactly the same as the SP value in learning.

That would of course would be different from player to player, not everyone have all learning skill maxed so its only fair to receive as much as you had invested.


Now, the question is:
Would you be totally satisfied with this change?






I'm with the crowd that says if you're going to remove learning skills then you only reimburse the SP put into the learning skills and nothing else. Why should you get +10 to your attributes after the skills are gone. Strip the skills and drop everyone to the base level stats instead. That would even the playing field just as easily with less concern about giving all the older players some sort of rate adjusted SP bonus for what should have been this supposed +10 the whole time.

WillRain
Posted - 2010.07.05 03:13:00 - [394]
 

Supported, Learning system is the worst game design. it kicks lots of new player from EVE.

Star P'ergish
Posted - 2010.07.05 04:13:00 - [395]
 

Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Solution looking for a problem.

Removes a level of depth/choice/consequence from character development.

Not supported.


this

Tarasina
Posted - 2010.07.05 05:44:00 - [396]
 

I vote YES! Remove learning skills and imburse the invested amount of SkillPoints

Takseen
Posted - 2010.07.05 06:43:00 - [397]
 

Originally by: Nnamuachs



I'm with the crowd that says if you're going to remove learning skills then you only reimburse the SP put into the learning skills and nothing else. Why should you get +10 to your attributes after the skills are gone. Strip the skills and drop everyone to the base level stats instead. That would even the playing field just as easily with less concern about giving all the older players some sort of rate adjusted SP bonus for what should have been this supposed +10 the whole time.


Oh, this again. Obviously most people don't like the base training speed since they pick up the learning skills in the first place. Its just that not everyone likes the means for acquiring it.

Is the proposed solution something for nothing? Absolutely. They could look at alternate means of new players "earning" the learning skills, such as gaining them automatically with time played or on finishing the tutorial etc, but its not strictly necessary. Ultimately CCP will decide how fast they want newbies to advance in the game in the beginning, if that's faster then they do currently, so be it. If a few veterans can't handle this, tough.

KOSTAS CALDARIANOS
Posted - 2010.07.05 10:51:00 - [398]
 

Edited by: KOSTAS CALDARIANOS on 05/07/2010 10:54:18
Edited by: KOSTAS CALDARIANOS on 05/07/2010 10:52:14
Let me propose a solution and you can tell me what you think. It really is not that well thought so any input good or bad would be appreciated.
Generally from what i can understand the problem with learning skills is the time you have to put into training them, especially the second set.
The first one includes only rank 1 skills so it's not so tragic. As far as the second one goes i would propose a change from rank 3 to rank 2.
Now you have two categories of people (maybe 3 including the ones that don't want to train them at all):
1) the ones who are reluctant to train the second learning skills to 5 because of the days they would put into and as a consequence they feel disadvantaged. Training a rank 2 skill on the other hand is more tolerable.
2) the other ones who have already trained them could get the remaining SP back but in a way that would be fair(-looking) to other players. Get some SP per month, for say 6 months, until you use all the remaining SP (about 1,25 mil) or get faster training times for the same amount of SP.

This way you don't need to eliminate the learning skills at this point and the players that didn't train them won't feel at a great disadvantage against the other who would be taking back 1,25 mil SP (compared to 5,3 if they eliminate the learning skills altogether)...

Tell me what you think...
Cheers

PS. i don't know if someone suggested the same thing again.if so ignore it...

Eli Porter
Posted - 2010.07.05 17:45:00 - [399]
 

All supported but the 3rd point. SP reimbursement should be done with the new SP injection system.

zylch3
Caldari
Posted - 2010.07.05 18:04:00 - [400]
 

Originally by: Eli Porter
All supported but the 3rd point. SP reimbursement should be done with the new SP injection system.

The author's solution was before the SP injection system was put in place. I'm with the crowd that thinks CCP was testing out mass injection of SP with the 100k bonus.

Amerilia
Posted - 2010.07.05 18:16:00 - [401]
 

Canīt find anything to disagree, so I agree

Captain Megadeath
Posted - 2010.07.05 18:44:00 - [402]
 

Worst idea ever,

NOT SUPPORTED

This is Eve Online, not Hello Kitty Online.



Tombstone Frank
Posted - 2010.07.05 19:22:00 - [403]
 

Originally by: Captain Megadeath
Worst idea ever


Learning skill were maybe.

Supported.

Rebal 88
Minmatar
Black Ice Protectorate
The Imperial Senate
Posted - 2010.07.05 20:31:00 - [404]
 

I love the idea!

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.07.05 20:32:00 - [405]
 

Edited by: Obsidian Hawk on 05/07/2010 20:33:19

NOT supported

Everyone must suffer through the learning skills.

There are no free hand outs in eve.

Asking for free attributes is like begging for isk.

Plus its not that hard to stagger learning skills with conventional skills. 2 learning, 2 combat, 2 learning, 2 other skills. There is a huge balance and it all works out nicely.

JurassicDragon
Posted - 2010.07.05 20:35:00 - [406]
 


FireT
Gallente
Royal Advanced Industries
Imperial Crimson Legion
Posted - 2010.07.05 21:22:00 - [407]
 

Edited by: FireT on 05/07/2010 21:22:38
Even though I only began playing in 2008. I still think it would be nice to have these changes.

Yes I have maxed out learning skills. But if they prevent newer players from enjoying the game to the fullest, similarly to me now, I think the original ideas in this post are great.

Agreed and signed and hope newer players can get the benefit of these changes too. Very Happy

Takseen
Posted - 2010.07.05 21:28:00 - [408]
 

Originally by: Obsidian Hawk

NOT supported

Everyone must suffer through the learning skills.




So many masochists playing Eve it seems.

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.07.05 21:45:00 - [409]
 

Originally by: Takseen
So many masochists playing Eve it seems.


It would fit the whole "cold, dark, harsh universe" that Eve (used) to be a few years ago. Razz

Dr Halley
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.07.05 22:54:00 - [410]
 


HECK, YEAH.


Vargas Blackburn
Gallente
EVE University
Posted - 2010.07.05 23:50:00 - [411]
 

Edited by: Vargas Blackburn on 06/07/2010 00:05:37
Edited by: Vargas Blackburn on 06/07/2010 00:04:32
Edited by: Vargas Blackburn on 05/07/2010 23:55:53
/signed

I approve of this change. It will allow newbies to get right to the interesting skills and allow veterans several million SP to do w/e they want with.

EDIT: And yes, learning skills are a deterrent to new players. My cousin quit two weeks after he started because he didn't want to sit for 2 months doing nothing. My brother decided to just play other games while the skills trained. How is this good game design?

It baffles me how so many people are saying "lolol, don't like it don't train it! Quit if you want, whiners!" I sincerely hope these people never run their own business. MMORPGs are dependent on subscriptions. Want more content? More updates? More players = more revenue = more content/updates. Not deterring potential subscribers is better for everyone. Employees and servers don't pay for themselves.

Omish Dave
Posted - 2010.07.06 00:19:00 - [412]
 

I support this idea. Very Happy

Clovermite
Kamikaze Fleet Command
Kamikaze Project
Posted - 2010.07.06 02:40:00 - [413]
 

Edited by: Clovermite on 06/07/2010 02:40:24
Originally by: Obsidian Hawk

There are no free hand outs in eve.

Asking for free attributes is like begging for isk.



Not to sunshine on your stormy parade, but begging for isk actually works sometimes.

In fact, I once had a player give me 10 mil when I lost my ship...and I didn't even ask for it.


Royaldo
Gallente
Kongsberg Vaapenfabrikk Amarr branch.
Sev3rance
Posted - 2010.07.06 03:10:00 - [414]
 

Not supported.


Loi Shaini
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.06 03:49:00 - [415]
 

/not-supported.

If the crybabies want to play a sookie game, go and play Sims and you and your boyfriends can dress each other up.

CCP have not mentioned that they wish to remove them - just the crowd who drive around in the Whaaaaaambulance.

Now get away from our game you sook. Twisted Evil

Skid Skahular
Posted - 2010.07.06 09:17:00 - [416]
 

Remove Learning Skills!

Originally by: Loi Shaini

[...]
CCP have not mentioned that they wish to remove them [...]



Oh Really? You'd be wrong! They've wanted to remove them for years, but didn't have a satisfactory means for doing so. They do now.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=298143&page=3
Quote:
[...]Thus, there is ample room for the statement that "elite" learning skills will benefit them more, since most of them already have the prerequisites to train them off the bat when they come out, while, say a new player, just gets more learning skills the they have to learn to be long term competitive.

And you see, this is the real point why it's the last thing to do. We dont WANT more "mandatory" skills which give you no direct benefit. If anything, we'd like to exterminate the damn things.[...]


There's also links floating around to a video of CCP saying they want to remove Learning skills.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.

Posted - 2010.07.06 12:42:00 - [417]
 

It is clear that this is a divisive issue within the player base.

Perhaps I can offer a distinct perspective, as a CSM who has now had his baptism-in-lava in Iceland.

The key thing to understand is that for issues like this, what drives CCP decisionmaking is simple: customer retention.

That is, they are looking for things that will turn more clueless noobs into bitter old vet crack-w****s, while at the same time not disgusting the bitter old vet crack-w****s so much they will switch to another drug.

When it comes to creating new crack-w****s, learning skills are the worst feature in EVE. They actively drive noobs away from the game, because noobs are all about instant gratification -- they want the "rush" of a new drug -- and learning skills delay that. The bitter old vet crack-w****s (hereinafter BOVCWs), on the other hand, are all about getting their regular fix so they don't "get sick".

Much of the argument against removing learning skills boils down to this: "when I was a noob, I had to **** a lot of **** to get my crack, and the new b*****s should have to do the same thing."

Well, the BOVCWs need to get over that, and the reason is simple: more new crack-w****s = more money for pimp-daddy CCP = more resources put into developing tastier crack (at least, if CSM has anything to say about it!).

Now, that said, here's my 2 isk about how to implement it:

* Kill the learning skills.

* Respec all skills by +10 (5+4 + 10% = 9.9, close enough)

* Leave the implants as they are.

* Refund all accumulated learning skill skillpoints. As a sop to the hyper-optimizers, give a small bonus to people who actually trained advanced skills to V (such as an extra 10% for points spent training above IV on an advanced learning skill).

* If possible, provide one extra respec -- or at least, reset everyone's respec cooldown.

* Improve the interface for allocating bonus skillpoints - even a "allocate bonus points to train this skill to next level" right-click would be enough.

* Run the numbers and determine the optimum initial skill settings for noobs, based on the skills they have historically trained (not including the learning skills, of course!). Use these for noobs.

* Add a new reward for completing the NPE - a small pool of bonus skillpoints (BOVCWs would get this as well during the changeover). This is, to my mind, a crucial element -- you give them a big hit of the true EVE crack to get them started on the path to BOVCW-dom. I personally would do this instead of double-rate training.

I would like to see more discussion on this issue, but I want to go on record as saying that if I don't read any show-stoppers, I am going to raise this as a CSM proposal -- and I welcome co-sponsors (that means you, Sok!)

Cyrus Doul
E0 Corp
Posted - 2010.07.06 14:23:00 - [418]
 

Edited by: Cyrus Doul on 06/07/2010 14:26:42
what is a sop?

also the 10% is important only if they keep remaps.

I like the extra remap idea too. 2 million sp though not alot is enough for some people to use that extra map to polish off some arcane skill set then go back to their old map if they still have their old map.

Trebor Daehdoow
Gallente
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.07.06 14:36:00 - [419]
 

Originally by: Cyrus Doul
what is a sop?


Something given to pacify or quiet, or as a bribe.

For example, "CCP gave the CSMs an extra trip to Iceland as a sop."

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.07.06 14:44:00 - [420]
 

Originally by: Trebor Daehdoow

I would like to see more discussion on this issue, but I want to go on record as saying that if I don't read any show-stoppers, I am going to raise this as a CSM proposal -- and I welcome co-sponsors (that means you, Sok!)


I'm gonna send you a crate of beer if you pull this off.


Pages: first : previous : ... 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 18 ... : last (25)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only