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blankseplocked [Proposal] Learning skills solution
 
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total play
Posted - 2010.07.03 09:36:00 - [361]
 

Originally by: Kaya Divine
Intro: Some of you are aware that CCP wants to remove those, but they are still searching for a solution which would benefit the most players. So I meditated and figured out solution. Which is easy to program and implement. And which will not make people angry.

Solution

  • 1. Add 10 points + 10% to all characters attributes


10 points is the value of maxed learning skills, 10% is a bonus to value gained by maxed Learning skill.

  • 2. Remove all learning skills.


Like they never existed.

  • 3. SP which player had been invested in Learning will be redistributed through faster learning time lets say 10000% faster.


Lets say for example you have 4m SP in learning. You will get bonus to SP accumulation with a same value. So you will not lose any SP but it would be redistributed to your current skill plan in total value which would be exactly the same as the SP value in learning.

That would of course would be different from player to player, not everyone have all learning skill maxed so its only fair to receive as much as you had invested.


Now, the question is:
Would you be totally satisfied with this change?






Bad Idea.

Jasdifa
Posted - 2010.07.03 10:10:00 - [362]
 

Originally by: Kaya Divine
Intro: Some of you are aware that CCP wants to remove those, but they are still searching for a solution which would benefit the most players. So I meditated and figured out solution. Which is easy to program and implement. And which will not make people angry.

Solution

  • 1. Add 10 points + 10% to all characters attributes


10 points is the value of maxed learning skills, 10% is a bonus to value gained by maxed Learning skill.

  • 2. Remove all learning skills.


Like they never existed.

  • 3. SP which player had been invested in Learning will be redistributed through faster learning time lets say 10000% faster.


Lets say for example you have 4m SP in learning. You will get bonus to SP accumulation with a same value. So you will not lose any SP but it would be redistributed to your current skill plan in total value which would be exactly the same as the SP value in learning.

That would of course would be different from player to player, not everyone have all learning skill maxed so its only fair to receive as much as you had invested.


Now, the question is:
Would you be totally satisfied with this change?





good idea

FALLINGSUNS
Posted - 2010.07.03 11:30:00 - [363]
 

it should be a great change
niceVery Happy

FarmerCounter
Posted - 2010.07.03 11:33:00 - [364]
 

Don't agree.

Different learning plans show the difference of different characteristics and stragetics.

Although a 5-4 or 4-4 learning could be "the standard", "Is that good to learn xxx to lv.5" is still a topic worth to be argue.

hmm... If you think the learning skills block people from join this game. Boost the speed bonus could be a solution.

Just reduce the training time for noobs to get 5-4 or 4-4 then left them to make the "lv.5 decision".

We need some difference for even Counter-Strike still has different weapons.

Yonlanda
Posted - 2010.07.03 12:09:00 - [365]
 

I believe the learning skills are all the evil sources. Very Happy

Kill them as soon as possible YARRRR!!

MonicaMona
Posted - 2010.07.03 12:10:00 - [366]
 

Originally by: Kaya Divine
Intro: Some of you are aware that CCP wants to remove those, but they are still searching for a solution which would benefit the most players. So I meditated and figured out solution. Which is easy to program and implement. And which will not make people angry.

Solution

  • 1. Add 10 points + 10% to all characters attributes


10 points is the value of maxed learning skills, 10% is a bonus to value gained by maxed Learning skill.

  • 2. Remove all learning skills.


Like they never existed.

  • 3. SP which player had been invested in Learning will be redistributed through faster learning time lets say 10000% faster.


Lets say for example you have 4m SP in learning. You will get bonus to SP accumulation with a same value. So you will not lose any SP but it would be redistributed to your current skill plan in total value which would be exactly the same as the SP value in learning.

That would of course would be different from player to player, not everyone have all learning skill maxed so its only fair to receive as much as you had invested.


Now, the question is:
Would you be totally satisfied with this change?





nice

Dardol
Posted - 2010.07.03 12:41:00 - [367]
 

Not Supported

Mantis wraith
Posted - 2010.07.03 14:23:00 - [368]
 

Originally by: FarmerCounter
Don't agree.
hmm... If you think the learning skills block people from join this game. Boost the speed bonus could be a solution.



Do keep in mind, as the OP has both stated and linked to in a fanfest video, that CCP devs have outright said that CCP HAS ALREADY COMMITTED TO ELIMINATING LEARNING SKILLS.

This thread is about HOW to go about doing that, NOT IF they should be gotten rid of.

Originally by: stoicfaux

The learning skills aren't the problem. The accelerated training time and two initial remaps are the problem.



I think you are forgetting one very important detail: The old characters actually started with a decent set of applicable skills. The new characters now start with almost nothing.

Without the accelerated learning time, new characters don't have much of a leg to stand on.

Matalino
Posted - 2010.07.03 14:52:00 - [369]
 

Originally by: Mantis wraith
Do keep in mind, as the OP has both stated and linked to in a fanfest video, that CCP devs have outright said that CCP HAS ALREADY COMMITTED TO ELIMINATING LEARNING SKILLS.
No! CCP has said that some of them have regrets about introducing learning skills, and at that time they did not see an easy way of removing them. They have not committed to do anything about learning skills. For all that we know the more recent changes to the NPE may have resolved their concerns about learning skills, as it has reduced the time spent training them in half.

Originally by: Mantis wraith
This thread is about HOW to go about doing that, NOT IF they should be gotten rid of.
This thread is for players to discuss their opinions regarding the future of learning skills. That includes voicing the opinion that they should be kept.

Originally by: Mantis wraith
Originally by: stoicfaux

The learning skills aren't the problem. The accelerated training time and two initial remaps are the problem.



I think you are forgetting one very important detail: The old characters actually started with a decent set of applicable skills. The new characters now start with almost nothing.

Without the accelerated learning time, new characters don't have much of a leg to stand on.
You seem to have forgetten that OLD players started with even fewer skills than current characters and did not have accellerated training times. Those characters stood well enough.





I would love for my army of alts to get an instant upgrade to 5/5 learning skills. I could abuse the extra training speed, especially if I decide to create some more alts. I would also love to redistribute my learning skill SP to some other skills so that I don't need to waste time boosting my characters' charisma or training at a less-than-optimal rate.

All-in-all I would come out well ahead if CCP follows the OP's suggestion. However, I suspect that it might be over-powered. On the other hand, I thought that 800k SP for a starting character was over-powered when it was first announced. I thought the same again when that was change to double-rate training for the first 1.6m SP. Looking back, I see that those changes have turned out alright. Therefore, I expect that the removal of learning skills would workout just fine as well.


Jyaki o
Posted - 2010.07.03 15:53:00 - [370]
 

Yeah I like this idea. It's cool.
I can't stand people arguing about different plans of learning skills. that's a waste of time.

Slick O'Hara
Morshu's Palace of Pain
Posted - 2010.07.03 16:58:00 - [371]
 

Agreed, new players experience of gameplay should be determined by their skill specialisations not some redundant learning skills. Any training that doesn't end in a new module, ship or module enhancement is really boring to do =\

zjeffa
Posted - 2010.07.03 17:06:00 - [372]
 

I like this idea, very nice

Zauric
Minmatar
Taconet
Posted - 2010.07.03 17:25:00 - [373]
 

As a new player that just started playing a month ago, I support this idea.

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2010.07.03 18:12:00 - [374]
 

Not supported

Campfore
Posted - 2010.07.03 19:57:00 - [375]
 

Not Supported. Very very bad idea.

Spades Slick
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.07.03 20:28:00 - [376]
 

As a new player who is a little more than two months old, I do NOT support this idea.

/antisigned

chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.03 21:02:00 - [377]
 

Edited by: chatgris on 03/07/2010 21:02:33
As someone who's trained them 5/4 or 5/5 - get rid of this abomination called learning skills!

Elton Murrow
Posted - 2010.07.04 00:26:00 - [378]
 

5/5 on three accounts.

Supported.

King Amadeus
Posted - 2010.07.04 06:09:00 - [379]
 

Originally by: Sokratesz
Edited by: Sokratesz on 26/05/2010 15:30:28
Yes.

Learning skills are in my opinion unnecessary, and a deterrent to many people who want to try EVE for just a few weeks. CCP themselves have admitted that their introduction was a mistake, and it's never too late to clean up on them.


-------------------------

Ok, couple thoughts on this whole thing.

1. Personally, I think members of the council(CSM) actually voting here in the Assembly Hall on ideas presented to the council is a bit wrong. Your voting FOR Eve players, we as members don't really care about what you personally like. Your job as CSM is to represent Eve players as a whole. Not push your own agenda.

2. The whole +10 thing is a way to make new players equal with older players. What that will do is return ALL players to the same speed of skill learning, with modifications done per remapping. The fact that an experienced player gets to use 5,375,000 sp's to another area and the typical 'noob' get to use 1,256,000 sp's(or less) to another area is worthless in the long run. Mainly because at the end of the day, all characters are now at the same speed for learning. Which is something that I do not support.

It is being done as an Equalizer, which EVE has never been about. Eve is a dog eat dog game, and that is the way it is. if you want a feel good, game that is easy to play and everyone starts off the same, GO PLAY WORLD OF WARCRAFT.

KA


Dahis39
Posted - 2010.07.04 06:43:00 - [380]
 

that's great!

FarmerCounter
Posted - 2010.07.04 07:10:00 - [381]
 


Originally by: Kaya Divine
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Originally by: Kaya Divine

1. CCP wants to remove them
2. CCP didnt do that because it didnt find good solution, which would satisfy majority of EvE players.

And until now, all people who didn't support are against learning skills removal, and its nice to have opinion but as I said consider theirs removal as something final...now its time to help CCP to find great solution and discuss with those two factors on your mind.



Dev blog / link / proof please or this is hearsay.
I'm not considering their removal "final" because you say it is... sorry.

Linkage


This video does not say that they will, (they want to, they have decided to....babababa....) solve the problem by removal of learning skills,does it?

And this "
Originally by: Kaya Divine

And until now, all people who didn't support are against learning skills removal, and its nice to have opinion but as I said consider theirs removal as something final...now its time to help CCP to find great solution and discuss with those two factors on your mind.

"

And anyone who wants to silence other solutions in this way "
Originally by: Mantis wraith
Do keep in mind, as the OP has both stated and linked to in a fanfest video, that CCP devs have outright said that CCP HAS ALREADY COMMITTED TO ELIMINATING LEARNING SKILLS.

This thread is about HOW to go about doing that, NOT IF they should be gotten rid of.
", you can stop now.

Not removal is not the wrong post here.


So let's back to the topic.

How can we make the learning system better by dealing with learing skills?


Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.07.04 07:16:00 - [382]
 

Not, and let me repeat that again, NOT supported.

Hainnz
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2010.07.04 08:04:00 - [383]
 

Support

Azzail
Posted - 2010.07.04 09:43:00 - [384]
 

It's a good idea to remove them because they are annoying for new players nah I would go as far as to say they are annoying for all of us!

But heres a question what will happen to my 4-5M SP in learnings on nearly all of my 8 toons? I mean that counts for a total of ~36M SP. And they are not even close to have pay'd back what I've invested in them i.e SKILLTIME! So I would expect that if learnings get removed I see them reinbusted thought the system CCP intruduced in the last patch. Otherwise I'm against removing them because that would be like cheating me.. i.e taking something from my toons without any return after all I pay'd for that skilltime. 4-5M SP in learnings are around 2 month skilltime meaing 30!

greets

Takseen
Posted - 2010.07.04 09:48:00 - [385]
 

Originally by: King Amadeus


2. The whole +10 thing is a way to make new players equal with older players. What that will do is return ALL players to the same speed of skill learning, with modifications done per remapping. Mainly because at the end of the day, all characters are now at the same speed for learning. Which is something that I do not support.




Absolutely! Having all players training at the same speed is completely ridiculous! Because, erm, stuff. And things.

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.07.04 10:08:00 - [386]
 

Originally by: Takseen
Originally by: King Amadeus


2. The whole +10 thing is a way to make new players equal with older players. What that will do is return ALL players to the same speed of skill learning, with modifications done per remapping. Mainly because at the end of the day, all characters are now at the same speed for learning. Which is something that I do not support.




Absolutely! Having all players training at the same speed is completely ridiculous! Because, erm, stuff. And things.

Yeah! Because all the evil noobs trained Cybernetics to V and have spare half billion of ISK lying around.
CCP, better don't dare to make the game more noob-friendly!

Alexkuku
Posted - 2010.07.04 12:17:00 - [387]
 

Please ccp hurry up and do this!

deadsilent
Posted - 2010.07.04 20:58:00 - [388]
 

Not Supported Keep the skills CCP

Valerie Burn
Posted - 2010.07.04 20:59:00 - [389]
 

Not supported!Exclamation

Hadon Arelus
Posted - 2010.07.04 21:02:00 - [390]
 

I do not see how your Idea will help eve. Not Supported


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