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blankseplocked [Proposal] Learning skills solution
 
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Kaya Divine
Gallente
Kittens Factory
Posted - 2010.05.25 09:55:00 - [1]
 

Intro: Some of you are aware that CCP wants to remove those, but they are still searching for a solution which would benefit the most players. So I meditated and figured out solution. Which is easy to program and implement. And which will not make people angry.

Solution

  • 1. Add 10 points + 10% to all characters attributes


10 points is the value of maxed learning skills, 10% is a bonus to value gained by maxed Learning skill.

  • 2. Remove all learning skills.


Like they never existed.

  • 3. SP which player had been invested in Learning will be redistributed through faster learning time lets say 10000% faster.


Lets say for example you have 4m SP in learning. You will get bonus to SP accumulation with a same value. So you will not lose any SP but it would be redistributed to your current skill plan in total value which would be exactly the same as the SP value in learning.

That would of course would be different from player to player, not everyone have all learning skill maxed so its only fair to receive as much as you had invested.


Now, the question is:
Would you be totally satisfied with this change?




Enzu777
Posted - 2010.05.25 10:47:00 - [2]
 

Please ccp hurry up and do this!

/signed


Ethos777
Posted - 2010.05.25 10:49:00 - [3]
 

Good solution

I also think it would be reasonable to give all characters an extra +5 to all attributes and either remove the 1-5 implants or use them entirely for stat/skill bonus's like the current sets work.

/signed

Vehlin
Black Viper Nomads
Nut Up Or Shut Up.
Posted - 2010.05.25 11:25:00 - [4]
 

Supported

CCP already has the tech in place to allow for accelerated skillpoint gains up to a set limit so it should be possible to implement this.

Problem is you'll still have people whining, they "you should have to do it because I had to" mentality, but then some people are never happy.

This solution deals with learning skills while at the same time giving a return to those who originalaly invested in the skills.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.25 13:06:00 - [5]
 

What about the SP I would have gained had I had the learning skills from day 1 as new players then effectively would? You forgot to account for that.

A better solution is, just remove the learning skills and tell anyone who complains to STFU.

Best solution is STFU about the learning skills.

Seamus Donohue
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.25 13:20:00 - [6]
 

I support the proposal of the original post.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2010.05.25 13:34:00 - [7]
 

Solution looking for a problem.

Removes a level of depth/choice/consequence from character development.

Not supported.

Random MonDistinct
Minmatar
Alternative Innovations
Unknown and Beyond
Posted - 2010.05.25 13:57:00 - [8]
 

This would not make any serious impact on game-play, why loose CSM time on that ?
I think it will be better to focus on fixing things which ARE broken or not finished.

Not supported.

Shaemell Buttleson
Posted - 2010.05.25 14:40:00 - [9]
 

Not supported.

Netacq
Posted - 2010.05.25 14:49:00 - [10]
 

not supported

One of the unique features of EVE is specialization. Learning skills are part of it.

King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous

Posted - 2010.05.25 15:41:00 - [11]
 

Supported, learning skills were always bad game design. Better to remove them late than never. I would also have no problems with those SP simply vanishing with no reimbursement.

De'Veldrin
Minmatar
Norse'Storm Battle Group
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.05.25 15:49:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: De''Veldrin on 25/05/2010 15:49:58
I've weighed in n the learning skills argument before, and I'm still on the same side now. There's nothing wrong with learning skills.

What needs to be changed is people's perception of their neccessity, but that would require changing the basic human nature of min/maxing in games where possible.

So I will simply say what I have always said:

You do not NEED to train learning skills, not even to be competitive, especially in the short term.

Let's face it, if two characters are facing off against each other in combat and they both have a total of 5 million Skill Points in the points relevant to that particular fight, does it really matter how long it took them to accumulate those skill points? Of course not - what will matter is how the points are applied - IOW, the player's skill at effectively using those points to reach the desired outcome. I would say that, if anything, the character that took longer getting there has an adavantage, because he has had more of an opportunity to hone the skills required to effectively apply those points.

What learning skills do is allow for a margin of error. They allow your opponent to mis calculate, instead of being able to look at a character and go "Oh he's six months old, he has exactly X skill points". You can still do that, but there's a wider margin of error because you're not sure how much learning he has applied, which shifts the total up or down.

Not supported.

Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.25 15:59:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Bagehi on 25/05/2010 21:44:52
CCP needs to just chop the learning skills. People who complain need to HTFU.

If you've trained them, you've already experienced the faster skill training and benefited from it. If you haven't trained it yet, you are a noob and shouldn't be faced with a month of skills that exist for no other reason than to train skills.

EDIT: I will, however, support anything (within reason) that axes the learning skills.

MNagy
Posted - 2010.05.25 16:09:00 - [14]
 

Not Supported.

Learning skills are a love them to hate them set of skills. You always want to put them in cue but they take forver. By putting them in cue, you are speeding up skill learning for later.

I say dont add more - dont get rid of them.

If you dont want to skill them - then dont.

M.

Kaya Divine
Gallente
Kittens Factory
Posted - 2010.05.25 18:22:00 - [15]
 

To those who didn't support:

Do remember that CCP decided that those skills will be removed. We dont discuss here should they be removed or not.

They still are not removed because CCP didn't find solution which would satisfy majority of players.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.05.25 19:26:00 - [16]
 

IMO, we should just cut the skills and HTFU about it. But, I'll support this if for no other reason than to get learning skills out of the game. They exacerbate the SP inadequacy problems new players feel.

If they focus on learning skills: they don't have fun for like two months in the game. WTFM8?
If they don't: I'm literally outrunning them on learning new crap, and they feel like I'm pulling even further ahead by the day.

-Liang

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.05.25 19:32:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Kaya Divine
To those who didn't support:

Do remember that CCP decided that those skills will be removed. We dont discuss here should they be removed or not.

They still are not removed because CCP didn't find solution which would satisfy majority of players.


Link?

I remember 1 dev saying once, 4 years ago, that he personally didn't like learning skills.

Saralle Zhukov
Minmatar
Lucian Alliance
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2010.05.25 19:46:00 - [18]
 

Learaning skills are stupid. It's an absolutely dumb game mechanic that drives potential new players out of the game. The question I have been asked repeatedly by my real life gaming friends is, "Spend money and how much time on this?"
I fully support this or ANY plan that get's rid of learning skills.


Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
Posted - 2010.05.25 19:55:00 - [19]
 

I don't think it makes a difference if one supports this or not, CCP recognizes and is aware of the problem, they simply haven't come up with a solution. It's in their best interest to do so and it will probably eventually happen.

CSM time is better spent on other things.

(It has no impact on my argument, but I think the skills are an absolutely dreadful game design mistake. One which is understandable, and understandably hard to correct. Which kind of makes them interesting for those of us interested in such things.)

usrevenge
Posted - 2010.05.25 20:19:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: usrevenge on 25/05/2010 20:19:30

Deckington Forgecaster
Posted - 2010.05.25 20:37:00 - [21]
 


Psycros
Posted - 2010.05.25 22:09:00 - [22]
 

A buddy of mine who is smart enough to fully grasp this idea says its a good solution. So I guess I'm on board :) I never thought learning skills made much sense. Of course, I could say the same of many things in EVE, but this seems like one CCP might actually fix for a change.

Dariah Stardweller
Gallente
NO U111 Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.26 09:27:00 - [23]
 

Learning skills were a design flaw imo. At least the extended learning skills package. Having said that, I don't see how you can reverse it in a way that is 'fair' for everybody.

Basicly, I don't care that much and as such I will not support this topic. Cool

Kaya Divine
Gallente
Kittens Factory
Posted - 2010.05.26 14:30:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Psycros
but this seems like one CCP might actually fix for a change.

Exactly!

Bernadictus
Caldari
S.A.S
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.26 15:05:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: MNagy
Not Supported.

Learning skills are a love them to hate them set of skills. You always want to put them in cue but they take forver. By putting them in cue, you are speeding up skill learning for later.

I say dont add more - dont get rid of them.

If you dont want to skill them - then dont.

M.


QFT. Learning skills are fundamental to the EVE game mechanics. You need them in the long term. If you fail to realize that, you fail at EVE.

Ganre Sorc
Posted - 2010.05.26 15:13:00 - [26]
 

Learning skills are a long term vs. short term investment. By removing that decision, you are hurting not only the old people who trained them(by wasting their time), you are hurting new players by removing what can be an incredibly deep planning moment in their character's life. Not supported, you don't want them, and the bonuses provided, you are not in any way obligated to train them.

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.05.26 15:29:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Sokratesz on 26/05/2010 15:30:28
Yes.

Learning skills are in my opinion unnecessary, and a deterrent to many people who want to try EVE for just a few weeks. CCP themselves have admitted that their introduction was a mistake, and it's never too late to clean up on them.

Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.05.26 16:21:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Solution looking for a problem.

Removes a level of depth/choice/consequence from character development.

Not supported.


This. Learning skills annoy people, but they're not a problem.

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.

Posted - 2010.05.26 16:33:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Netacq
not supported

One of the unique features of EVE is specialization. Learning skills are part of it.



rofl

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.05.26 17:08:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Santiago Fahahrri
Solution looking for a problem.

Removes a level of depth/choice/consequence from character development.

Not supported.


This. Learning skills annoy people, but they're not a problem.


I would like to contest that. I've introduced several people to EVE, and every single one of them came back to me within the first few days asking 'what do I do with these learning skills?'. I don't know howmuch of a deterrent it is to new players, although I can imagine it is, but in the least, it causes confusion.


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