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Frodorn
Posted - 2010.05.24 13:41:00 - [1]
 

I think salvaging someones npc mission wrecks is no different than looting a npc mission wreck. To the player, they both account for a loss. The player should have kill rights on a Ninja salvager if this occurs similar to what happens when they loot your npc mission wrecks.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.05.24 13:46:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 24/05/2010 13:48:55
Originally by: Frodorn
I think salvaging someones npc mission wrecks is no different

it is. Per game rules.
Wrecks are free for all to salvage. Per game rules.
Looting causes a flag and allows you to shoot the thief. If you do, you will be probably ganked, for this reason anybody, who is not a full noob, would never shoot a thief. Why should this be different for salvage flagging?

Frodorn
Posted - 2010.05.24 13:54:00 - [3]
 

This rule stinks. That is why I am posting this in the forums. The only place you can gripe about stuff like this. I will take my chances on shooting a thief. I just want the option to.

FISHANDCHIPS
Posted - 2010.05.24 13:56:00 - [4]
 

The wrecks dont belong to you ccp have said that constantly but i cant be arsed to find them all do it yourself.

And for the record if this ever happens within a week you will be back here crying your eyes out begging them to change it back because you are loosing a lot more than a few mill in salvage when you are dumb enough to shoot back at that iddy biddy frig and they come back in a ship designed specificity to kill you ASAP your PVE fit dosnt stand a godly chance.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.05.24 14:00:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Frodorn
This rule stinks. That is why I am posting this in the forums. The only place you can gripe about stuff like this. I will take my chances on shooting a thief. I just want the option to.


I saw some folks trying to do that ... they lost very expensive ships that way. because the ninja looter/salvager will be prepared. he will mostlikely have (neutral) remote reppers in system.

so in the end you give him your salvage + loot/salvage from your mission running boat.

win for you because you could fire at the ninja salvager?ugh

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.05.24 14:04:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 24/05/2010 14:04:08
Originally by: Frodorn
This rule stinks. That is why I am posting this in the forums. The only place you can gripe about stuff like this. I will take my chances on shooting a thief. I just want the option to.


I dont like the rule forbidding me to shoot anyone in highsec. Concord stiks. But this is the way high sec works, so I may not shoot you, you may not shoot salvagers. Accept that or go back to where you came from.

Erich Herrmann
Posted - 2010.05.24 14:04:00 - [7]
 

Per CCP Mitnal:
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Per Senior GM Ytterbium :
Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Per CCP Prism X :
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

Per CCP Incognito :
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.

(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)

Frodorn
Posted - 2010.05.24 14:07:00 - [8]
 

They should create a timer on the wrecks you kill so they become "Free for All" for both looting and salvaging after a certain period of time or if the wreck is abandoned. From a profit perspective, I just don't understand the difference between salvaging and looting and why there is a penalty for one and not the other. They both seem like loot to me and salvaging makes up for a lot of my money while running missions.

Frodorn
Posted - 2010.05.24 14:13:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Erich Herrmann
Per CCP Mitnal:
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."

Per GM Faolchu :
Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.

Per Senior GM Ytterbium :
Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.

Per CCP Prism X :
Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.

Per CCP Incognito :
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.

(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)


Man, that is a lot of people complaining about the same thing. Hmm..... must be something worth complaining about :)

Erich Herrmann
Posted - 2010.05.24 14:18:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Frodorn
Man, that is a lot of people complaining about the same thing. Hmm..... must be something worth complaining about :)


Or it's an indication that your complaints are futile and will fall on deaf ears :) though your idea to flag wrecks as FFA after a set timer is nice ...

Kel Nissa
Posted - 2010.05.24 14:48:00 - [11]
 

To cite CCP proves nothing. And i bet you know that.

Femina Somnium
Posted - 2010.05.24 15:15:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Kel Nissa
To cite CCP proves nothing. And i bet you know that.


This is a debate over an arbitrary game mechanic, we aren't here to prove anything. The OP certainly doesn't. He just thinks because the two activities cause loss to his potential income, that they should be treated the same. Many share his views(missioners and many pirates), but CCP doesn't and majority seems fine with it. Not to mention, that it would mainly end up being used to bait missioners into attacking, which would be followed by their missioning ship being ganked by the ninja salvager and his buddies, so the end result is that ninja salvaging continues and anyone stupid enough to shoot them loses their missioning ship as a bonus.

Kel Nissa
Posted - 2010.05.24 15:59:00 - [13]
 

The OP has the right to post his opinion.

So flame somewhere else please.

Lani Sun
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:07:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Frodorn
I think salvaging someones npc mission wrecks is no different than looting a npc mission wreck. To the player, they both account for a loss. The player should have kill rights on a Ninja salvager if this occurs similar to what happens when they loot your npc mission wrecks.
Thanks for letting me know about this profession of Ninja salvaging, looks like it could be plenty of fun, ill have to try it out.

KuroiOokami
Posted - 2010.05.24 18:28:00 - [15]
 

You know as a missioner, I say make it get them flagged just so the idiot whiners can actually get bloody ganked to shi*t an back purely so they whine for it to get reset to the old way.

I might actually start ninja salvaging just so they shoot me an i can get my buddies to gank them. You know please CCP make it a flagged offense, please every griefer in the game will love you you for it an plus it'll make EVE more harsh because most people who play for iskies right will get popped for protecting space trash :D.

JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2010.05.24 19:15:00 - [16]
 


Persona n0ngrata
Posted - 2010.05.24 20:01:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: KuroiOokami
You know as a missioner, I say make it get them flagged just so the idiot whiners can actually get bloody ganked to sh*t an back purely so they whine for it to get reset to the old way.

I might actually start ninja salvaging just so they shoot me an i can get my buddies to gank them. You know please CCP make it a flagged offense, please every griefer in the game will love you you for it an plus it'll make EVE more harsh because most people who play for iskies right will get popped for protecting space trash :D.


MY TRASH, GO AWAYLaughing

Goose99
Posted - 2010.05.24 20:05:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: KuroiOokami
You know as a missioner, I say make it get them flagged just so the idiot whiners can actually get bloody ganked to shi*t an back purely so they whine for it to get reset to the old way.

I might actually start ninja salvaging just so they shoot me an i can get my buddies to gank them. You know please CCP make it a flagged offense, please every griefer in the game will love you you for it an plus it'll make EVE more harsh because most people who play for iskies right will get popped for protecting space trash :D.


Can't get buddies to gank them. Can flipper is alone, corpmates don't get killright, but the mission runner's corpmates do.

Reggie Stoneloader
Poofdinkles
Posted - 2010.05.24 21:03:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Kel Nissa
The OP has the right to post his opinion.

So flame somewhere else please.
Flame? The OP posted his opinion. His opinion is contrary to the opinion of the majority of players, developers and administrators of EvE Online. He received negative feedback on his unpopular and flawed idea. The system is working as intended.

For my part, I like the fact that salvage is a free-for-all. It allows PvP wrecks to be salvaged by opportunists, reducing the profit for high-sec PvPers and encouraging to graduate to low-sec fighting. It also encourages ninjas to go out and ninja even when they don't have overwhelming backup available to them, and are thus sometimes tempted by sweet loot to get flagged into a fight that they aren't sure to win. That means mission runners sometimes are able to kill them and enjoy loot and satisfaction. I love it when a corpie reports a ninja and I go out there in my Slasher and tear him up for lulz. If the flagging was a guarantee, then the only ninjas in space would be gankers in ninjas' clothing, meaning the only rational response to their interloping would be to back down and either let them have it or pout and shoot the wrecks.

TL;DR the OP has a bad idea, and should feel bad, the game works fine and is more enjoyable in its current state than in the state the OP envisions.

KuroiOokami
Posted - 2010.05.24 21:32:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Goose99
Originally by: KuroiOokami
...


Can't get buddies to gank them. Can flipper is alone, corpmates don't get killright, but the mission runner's corpmates do.


Obvious alt is Obvious.

JordanParey
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
Posted - 2010.05.24 21:34:00 - [21]
 

It doesn't bother me that he posted an op----whine about ninja salvagers, it's that he couldn't be bothered to post in the OTHER topic that was made first and already active.

Trust me, if it you REALLY want salvaging to flag ninja salvagers, you'll eventually get it.. just don't come crying to us when your 600m CNR/100m PVP ship/T3 cruiser goes poof without so much as a "haha pwnt" in local.

Torothanax
Posted - 2010.05.25 11:44:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Frodorn
This rule stinks. That is why I am posting this in the forums. The only place you can gripe about stuff like this. I will take my chances on shooting a thief. I just want the option to.
Lots of people would like the option. Griefers don't like the idea of getting shot at while they **** someone else off, thus the spam and flames.

CCP has a hard on for government enforced anarchy (which is an oxymoron, but don't tell them that), so they resist changing it. The bug that sent mission runners to high population hubs rather then away from them didn't help the issue any.

Give it time. With enough complaints CCP will eventually acknowledge that theft is actually theft.

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.05.25 11:56:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Robert Caldera on 25/05/2010 11:59:47

Despite of flagging looters, only idiots and noobs really shoot them.
You know, for salvage it would be the same.

A game is defined by its rules at any time, so if the rules say salvage is for all, its not theft to take it.

You know, there arent any real spaceships behind, there are no real pirates, no wars, no asteroids and anything at all, its only the game played according to its rules and laws.

Kel Nissa
Posted - 2010.05.25 17:33:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
His opinion is contrary to the opinion of the majority of players, developers and administrators of EvE Online.


His opinion is the same as the opinion of the majority of players, developers and administrators of EvE Online.

Hint: Both statments might be right or might be wrong. You are unable to identify the correct one.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.05.25 17:40:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Kel Nissa
Originally by: Reggie Stoneloader
His opinion is contrary to the opinion of the majority of players, developers and administrators of EvE Online.


His opinion is the same as the opinion of the majority of players, developers and administrators of EvE Online.

Hint: Both statments might be right or might be wrong. You are unable to identify the correct one.


You are wrong, but I am also wrong and two wrongs don't make a right, so we are both right and wrong.

Hint: I too can talk out my ass.

Zwyggy Zythum
Posted - 2010.05.25 17:51:00 - [26]
 

Frodorn? Isn't that a hobbit name or something? Need directions back to elf and fairy land?

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.05.25 20:46:00 - [27]
 

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=6684928

this happens when you shoot flagged people.
nice kill, pls more of them.

Torothanax
Posted - 2010.05.25 20:51:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 25/05/2010 11:59:47

Despite of flagging looters, only idiots and noobs really shoot them.
You know, for salvage it would be the same.

A game is defined by its rules at any time, so if the rules say salvage is for all, its not theft to take it.

You know, there arent any real spaceships behind, there are no real pirates, no wars, no asteroids and anything at all, its only the game played according to its rules and laws.
And there's no real time spent creating wrecks to salvage is there? And isk is totally irrelevant to the game right? Please go on with your fountain of wisdom.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.05.25 20:55:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Torothanax
Originally by: Robert Caldera
Edited by: Robert Caldera on 25/05/2010 11:59:47

Despite of flagging looters, only idiots and noobs really shoot them.
You know, for salvage it would be the same.

A game is defined by its rules at any time, so if the rules say salvage is for all, its not theft to take it.

You know, there arent any real spaceships behind, there are no real pirates, no wars, no asteroids and anything at all, its only the game played according to its rules and laws.
And there's no real time spent creating wrecks to salvage is there? And isk is totally irrelevant to the game right? Please go on with your fountain of wisdom.


you already get bounties, loot, LP, mission reward. and you are so greedy that you whine about the occasional loss of some salvage?Shocked

Robert Caldera
Posted - 2010.05.25 21:01:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Torothanax
And there's no real time spent creating wrecks to salvage is there? And isk is totally irrelevant to the game right? Please go on with your fountain of wisdom.


yes, you spend time playing a game in a manner dictaced by its ruleset.


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