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blankseplocked Will anyone actually USE Eve-gate?
 
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Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:03:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/05/2010 17:07:28
Originally by: Agent Unknown
If you don't trust someone enough to see your contacts list, why do you have them +10 anyway? +10 implies friend or ally...+5 just means "Okay, I won't shoot, but no access to secret stuff!" It's similar with outposts and the like in this function.


I seriously doubt that you give your phone contact list to an IRL friend... Same thing here with ingame contacts. Friend don't mean that we will tell him everything, and especialy contacts, same if Facebook successed to change the definition of the word "Friend".

Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:04:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: laksmi2
are my corpmates automatically +10?


I'd assume so, yes.

Mag's
the united
Negative Ten.
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:06:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Kesper North
and, less than a month from now, a wife.


My sincerest condolences.

Agent Unknown
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:10:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Sky Marshal
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 24/05/2010 17:07:28
Originally by: Agent Unknown
If you don't trust someone enough to see your contacts list, why do you have them +10 anyway? +10 implies friend or ally...+5 just means "Okay, I won't shoot, but no access to secret stuff!" It's similar with outposts and the like in this function.


I seriously doubt that you give your phone contact list to an IRL friend... Same thing here with ingame contacts. Friend don't mean that we will tell him everything, and especialy contacts, same if Facebook successed to change the definition of the word "Friend".


Facebook essentially did that by allowing friends to see basically "all" your information that you put on it (I recently deactivated my account because of recent issues). I think CCP is trying to do the same thing...which although I see workarounds by changing standings, it's not really for EVE.

I know CCP is trying hard to get people to use it, and hopefully they will listen to some of the feedback and offer ways to secure your information.

Sarina Berghil
Minmatar
New Zion Judge Advocate
Yulai Federation
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:14:00 - [95]
 

Since a large part of Eve for me happens in the email interface, and various out of game tools and services, I can certainly see myself doing all this without even logging on with Eve-gate available.

Hopefully that means more intensive pew pew, when I am logged on to the game client.

123GuessWho
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:47:00 - [96]
 

only if theres an option to capt out of it, too much info on there

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:57:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
I HATE opt outs, for whatever pretend reason they are presented for.

I am filing a petition against forced opt-out to the European Parliament in this moment and asking for a revision of:

EU Directive 2002/58/EC Directive 2002/58/EC of the European Parliament and of the Council of 12 July 2002
and subsequent Directive 2003/58/EC and Amending Council Directive 68/151/EEC



VV, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service. You opted in by paying your subscription and/or buying the game. Seriously, the same kind of twisted logic could be used to declare that PVP in Counter Strike should be opt in. I opt in only to dualie duels, of course. Rolling Eyes

-Liang

Jo Ka
Posted - 2010.05.24 18:03:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: laksmi2
are my corpmates automatically +10?



Not if their standing is set at 5.0

I'm in a single corp so not a problem to me as yet.

Jypsie
Amarr
Pytheas search
Exodus Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.24 18:25:00 - [99]
 

I'll use it.

I dislike that it shares any information automatically without your permission to start with but I've reviewed that issue and what is shared by default is of no concern to me. Measures have been taken, so to speak.

However, the ability to access email, contacts, and calendar from outside the game will help me greatly in organizing game events ahead of time so that when I do finally have time to log in and play I should actually get more flight time in.


Daemonspirit
Six Degrees of Separation
Posted - 2010.05.24 19:42:00 - [100]
 

Doubt I'll use it.

For whatever reason, I hate "opt - out", imho, its arrogant as hell. So, I'll log in, turn it off, and go about my business...

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.05.24 21:44:00 - [101]
 

Quote:

So, what law school did you go to? The 4chan Institute of Legal Studies?



No, never been in your alliance.


Quote:

Facebook essentially did that by allowing friends to see basically "all" your information that you put on it (I recently deactivated my account because of recent issues). I think CCP is trying to do the same thing...which although I see workarounds by changing standings, it's not really for EVE.

I know CCP is trying hard to get people to use it, and hopefully they will listen to some of the feedback and offer ways to secure your information.



CCP should:

1) Read the worldwide wall of flames off prominent information sites (IE ZDNet) thrown on Facebook's "fancy" privacy concept and how Facebook owners are being pushed into improving privacy over there.

2) Make the product so good that everyone want to use it, not ninja force people into it, without them even knowing they are.

3) At least send an in game warning about the implications of EvE Gate and how to opt out of it. It still kicks military / months off people in the groin, but at least it saves many others.

I of course already reset everything but I am thinking for the others, those (and I have a dozen EvE friends in the situation) who won't have a chance to fix their stuff as ATM they can't play, much less read the forum.

Quote:

VV, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service. You opted in by paying your subscription and/or buying the game.



"Exceptions:
A business relationship in which contact information was obtained constitutes prior consent as long as a means to opt out was provided at the same time and continues to be provided with each such message and each message is about similar products or services by the same company"


Quote:

You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service



I also don't own anything in my WEB based email, it's also provided as a service, yet I am protected on it.


Most of all - and in my country this is continuously used to void shady contracts (I don't know the proper English words :S) - is the factual effect.

Do I - not as avatar, but the real me - get harassed by an unsolicited "Buy Cialis" e-mail? Yes.
Do I - not as avatar, but the real me - get harassed by an unsolicited "Buy ISK" in game mail (caused by a data mining bot run at "EvE Gate day zero"? Yes.

I don't own anything in both, I get the same effect in both and I get the harassing effect on *me, the RL dude* not an avatar.
I still pretend *I* am in my property.

ChrisIsherwood
Posted - 2010.05.24 22:48:00 - [102]
 

Of course I'll use it. But the real excitement is for features coming after May 25th.

Originally by: Mag's
Originally by: Kesper North
and, less than a month from now, a wife.


My sincerest condolences.


You need to make sure that your prenup is clear that when the inevitable happens, you do not lose half your ISK!

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.05.25 00:05:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 25/05/2010 00:05:12
Originally by: Liang Nuren

VV, you don't have a legal leg to stand on. You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service. You opted in by paying your subscription
-Liang


I don't see orange or my land line provider publishing my digitally stored contact information without my permission so why the hell is it acceptable for any other kind of service provider to do it?.

Captain Mastiff
Posted - 2010.05.25 00:19:00 - [104]
 

Something tells me this may well reveal a few undercover spy alts from big alliances.

I personally won't use Eve gate... if they are implementing all this crap then there is no excuse not for implementing the idea of being able to alter your skill queue out of game.

Nuff said.


Prieith
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.05.25 00:20:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Prieith on 25/05/2010 00:23:17
Mkay, so when i play EvE now, i use Teamspeak for corp/alliance, Ventrilo for RL buddies, 2 channels on irc for corp/alliance, and 2 channels on another irc server for RL buddies, MSN is running in the background, and dotlan maps on a laptop.
And one forum for corp, and one for alliance.

And now evegate also?

How social do i need to be?

SlayerOfArgus
Gallente
Hermes Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.25 00:42:00 - [106]
 

Yes

Da'iel Zehn
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.25 00:57:00 - [107]
 

I will be using it for sure.


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.05.25 00:58:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/05/2010 01:00:22
Quote:
Do I - not as avatar, but the real me - get harassed by an unsolicited "Buy ISK" in game mail (caused by a data mining bot run at "EvE Gate day zero"? Yes.


Laughing That data mining bot sure must be popular, since apparently he is set +10 by a large section of the EVE community. Otherwise it can get nothing.

Now if some people did set "him" blue for some reason (or had him in their corp) I suppose (if someone actually took the time to make the bot work) that it might capture their contact list, but unless the people on that list also have him set +10 he can mine no further.

Frankly, you'd be far more effective creating a bot that captures the names of the people passing through Jita local.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.05.25 01:05:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: VV

"Exceptions:
A business relationship in which contact information was obtained constitutes prior consent as long as a means to opt out was provided at the same time and continues to be provided with each such message and each message is about similar products or services by the same company"



You are aware that they're opting you in to a game feature which might reveal in game information right? Let me know when they opt you in to putting your home address on the internet via eve-gate.

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
I don't see orange or my land line provider publishing my digitally stored contact information without my permission so why the hell is it acceptable for any other kind of service provider to do it?.


Let's be clear: You own nothing about this game, and neither do I. If they wanted to publish everything at all about your character, you'd have no legal grounds for complaint. None. Now if they go publishing your home address/email address/whatever you might be able to complain.

But this is a game feature.

-Liang

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.05.25 01:20:00 - [110]
 

Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 25/05/2010 01:24:27
Originally by: Liang Nuren

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
I don't see orange or my land line provider publishing my digitally stored contact information without my permission so why the hell is it acceptable for any other kind of service provider to do it?.


Let's be clear: You own nothing about this game, and neither do I. If they wanted to publish everything at all about your character, you'd have no legal grounds for complaint. None. Now if they go publishing your home address/email address/whatever you might be able to complain.

But this is a game feature.

-Liang


Why are you blindly defending this? cant you see why many people see this as a breech of player trust in CCP? because what could be next? publishing our chatlogs perhaps? or recording conversations on EVE voice? by your argument they would have the legal right to do this and while I am never going to get into a :internet lawyers: argument I do not think they have the right to do this because who you choose to socialize or speak with in a game should not be made public without permission just because it happens to be on CCP servers.

By your logic a mobile phone service provider have the right to publicly publish a list of everyone a customer texts or calls when in reality they need a court order to even show the police any logs.

And in any case if CCP do have this right we need to consent to this by agreeing to the terms and conditions presented in the EULA so on patch day if players do not accept the new revised EULA will that automatically exclude their data from being published? (and from logging into the game in the process ofc)

Lanais Suleia
Posted - 2010.05.25 01:54:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Miilla
I will use it, only once.

And that will be to disable all the public settings to private.

Lets all overload eve gate servers just to do this on launch day. Its going to fail day 1.


+1

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.05.25 02:12:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Why are you blindly defending this?


I'm not. I'm just not blindly lashing out either. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
cant you see why many people see this as a breech of player trust in CCP? because what could be next? publishing our chatlogs perhaps? or recording conversations on EVE voice? by your argument they would have the legal right to do this and while I am never going to get into a :internet lawyers: argument I do not think they have the right to do this because who you choose to socialize or speak with in a game should not be made public without permission just because it happens to be on CCP servers.



Oh come the **** on man. There's a little bit of a difference between your friends knowing who your other friends are and them publishing chat logs. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
By your logic a mobile phone service provider have the right to publicly publish a list of everyone a customer texts or calls when in reality they need a court order to even show the police any logs.


What the **** are you on about? My logic has nothing to do with that. That's Real Life. This is Internet Spaceships. BIG ****ING DIFFERENCE BROSKI. I'd spam the rolleyes button like 50 times, but this single one will have to do: Rolling Eyes

Quote:
And in any case if CCP do have this right we need to consent to this by agreeing to the terms and conditions presented in the EULA so on patch day if players do not accept the new revised EULA will that automatically exclude their data from being published? (and from logging into the game in the process ofc)


What makes you think that the EULA needs to be updated to allow this? What part of the EULA, specifically, forbids Evegate?

-Liang

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.05.25 02:51:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
Why are you blindly defending this?


I'm not. I'm just not blindly lashing out either. Rolling Eyes


yes you are your just posting "CCP owns your soul" and not even just slightly thinking about how it might be wrong.

Originally by: Liang Nuren

Quote:
cant you see why many people see this as a breech of player trust in CCP? because what could be next? publishing our chatlogs perhaps? or recording conversations on EVE voice? by your argument they would have the legal right to do this and while I am never going to get into a :internet lawyers: argument I do not think they have the right to do this because who you choose to socialize or speak with in a game should not be made public without permission just because it happens to be on CCP servers.



Oh come the **** on man. There's a little bit of a difference between your friends knowing who your other friends are and them publishing chat logs. Rolling Eyes


According to the argument you made about CCP owning every single players social activity record its not different at all its just a different level of privacy invasion.

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote:
By your logic a mobile phone service provider have the right to publicly publish a list of everyone a customer texts or calls when in reality they need a court order to even show the police any logs.

What the **** are you on about? My logic has nothing to do with that. That's Real Life. This is Internet Spaceships. BIG ****ING DIFFERENCE BROSKI. I'd spam the rolleyes button like 50 times, but this single one will have to do: Rolling Eyes


Lets go back a few posts to one of your earlier statements:-

Originally by: Liang Nuren
You don't own anything, and the game is provided as a service. You opted in by paying your subscription


Its true the in game content is internet spaceships but in reality CCP provides a service in return for a subscription and this makes CCP a service provider, who you decide to socialise with is not in game content and should not be disclosed without the subscribers permission.

Originally by: Liang Nuren
Quote:
And in any case if CCP do have this right we need to consent to this by agreeing to the terms and conditions presented in the EULA so on patch day if players do not accept the new revised EULA will that automatically exclude their data from being published? (and from logging into the game in the process ofc)


What makes you think that the EULA needs to be updated to allow this? What part of the EULA, specifically, forbids Evegate?


Subscribers who currently play the game agreed to the terms and conditions based on the content at the time they consented to the EULA, if players do not agree to the terms and conditions related to the new content (EVE gate) should they be subjected to the consequences of that new content, namely the disclosing of social records? I don't believe they should.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2010.05.25 03:15:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Jhagiti Tyran
yes you are your just posting "CCP owns your soul" and not even just slightly thinking about how it might be wrong.


No... I said nothing about your soul. I said that they owned the data on their server that's related to your in game characters. Do you deny this? Also, I was extremely critical of EveGate in the initial roll out on sisi. It was a bit too revealing.... but I wouldn't worry about such things now that the major concerns have been addressed.

Quote:
According to the argument you made about CCP owning every single players social activity record its not different at all its just a different level of privacy invasion.


I think the argument could be made that kind of data is more closely aligned with data transmitted over IM networks. I think its a totally different level of thing because one thing we're talking about releases data strictly of use in game, while another has an extremely high likelihood of containing data that could be used for nefarious purposes out of game. Even still, I would probably have no recourse unless it contained very specific kinds of data.

On this note, I don't see you flaming Chribba for releasing an entire week's worth of chat logs?

Quote:

Its true the in game content is internet spaceships but in reality CCP provides a service in return for a subscription and this makes CCP a service provider, who you decide to socialise with is not in game content and should not be disclosed without the subscribers permission.



Oh, better get rid of killmails and corp tickers on the forums too eh? Look, there's already tons of data out there for anyone that cares to look. You can ***** and moan all you want to about it, but ultimately they've given you the tools to take advantage of this in a way that both delivers the benefits and doesn't unnecessarily expose "your" data.

Originally by: Liang Nuren

Subscribers who currently play the game agreed to the terms and conditions based on the content at the time they consented to the EULA, if players do not agree to the terms and conditions related to the new content (EVE gate) should they be subjected to the consequences of that new content, namely the disclosing of social records? I don't believe they should.



I asked you to point to a specific clause of the EULA that prohibits Eve Gate or anything like it. Obviously, you can't do that. Thus, you quite likely don't need to sign a new EULA. But feel free to quit, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.

-Liang

Jhagiti Tyran
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.05.25 03:38:00 - [115]
 

Edited by: Jhagiti Tyran on 25/05/2010 03:44:47
Originally by: Liang Nuren


On this note, I don't see you flaming Chribba for releasing an entire week's worth of chat logs?


You don't see me flaming anyone at all I am just presenting my opinion in a clear mature way please show me where I have insulted, swore or or resorted to ad hominem attacks. I have not posted an opinion on whatever Chribba is supposed to have done because I dont know what happened but it does not really have any relevance to to this discussion as Chribba is not CCP.

But as you bring up the big C it seems he is also against the default "opt in" setting for EVE gate.

Originally by: Liang Nuren
But feel free to quit, and don't let the door hit your ass on the way out.




Also where do I say I am quiting? I just said that people who do not agree should be not subjected to it, personally I will turn every feature in EVE gate off that I can and never use it again. Regarding the possible amendments to the EULA in every major patch or expansion CCP have given players the option to refuse or agree to it both when you install the patch and login the first time after installation I don't see them not doing the same this time around.

jag
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.05.25 03:44:00 - [116]
 

Umm lets see

CCP say its a way to force people to become more social and make more friends in eve.

eve has a player base of 350k+, 98% of which are male

As I am hetero thats a no from me .

northwesten
Amarr
Trinity Corporate Services
Terran United Federation
Posted - 2010.05.25 05:14:00 - [117]
 

All I am going to say about this EVE gat stuff. Is look interesting and I see alot of people flaming with no bases!

It's sharing in game info! not sharing RL life info and people talking there could be legal action is a complete moron!

CCP owns all the info of toons! not you! Also using the logic to phone number to be made public is dumb as well. I mean phone books? I get calls from companys and they said they get it from phone books O.o I can't do much about it other i have to pay to hide my dam number!

How about Research and think before posting because the crap I see about this is Embarrassing! Rolling Eyes



Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.05.25 05:18:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
The law applies to email, but I am quite sure that revealing information leading to unsolicited third parties to a loss of virtual assets is as damaging as having a loss due to email.


It's...a...game.
Rolling Eyes

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.05.25 07:56:00 - [119]
 

Quote:

Mkay, so when i play EvE now, i use Teamspeak for corp/alliance, Ventrilo for RL buddies, 2 channels on irc for corp/alliance, and 2 channels on another irc server for RL buddies, MSN is running in the background, and dotlan maps on a laptop.
And one forum for corp, and one for alliance.

And now evegate also?

How social do i need to be?



TBH when I was in IT Alliance I kept asking myself why we'd need to use 10000000 chats, IRC and whatever just to do what we did till 1 week before joining IT but with just _2_ chats.


Quote:

Oh come the **** on man. There's a little bit of a difference between your friends knowing who your other friends are and them publishing chat logs.



Yeah, the bit is about leaking to "friends or friends" what alts you use to fly JFs and the likes.
Hardly relevant.


Quote:

Also where do I say I am quiting?



I noticed how for some people you are not meant to be free, nor to have an opinion deviating from the "groupthink right opinion".
If you do, you are meant to quit and / or do seppuku.


Quote:

It's...a...game



And?
Do principles change just because applied to less important things?

When you get the Cialis e-mail it's... a... email.
When you get the Cialis SMS / phone call it's... a... call.

What evil can do an email or a SMS? Little? Regardless, some countries have laws dealing even with these things.
Are those laws overkill? Maybe, but they are still here.


Quote:

Regarding the possible amendments to the EULA in every major patch or expansion CCP have given players the option to refuse or agree to it both when you install the patch and login the first time after installation I don't see them not doing the same this time around



In theory, if I refuse the EULA (that WILL be shown and required to be "signed") I should become unable to further play the game (fair) but as consequence of the denial, the new unsolicited features should not be activated either.
Wanna bet with me that this won't be the case?

Creepin
Posted - 2010.05.25 08:42:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Creepin on 25/05/2010 09:56:32
I pretty much despise social networks, so I wasn't planning to use EVE-Gate, obviously. However, moronic opt-out decision ccp comes up with (well can't blame them this exact time as it's what they always do) apparently forces me to pollute myself by using it once - to shut down all possible access to my ingame information.
'Tis sad.


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