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Nuela
Caldari
Beacon Light Corporation
Beacon Light Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.21 13:48:00 - [1]
 

Not meant to be a snarky question...but a serious one.

I am relatively new, about 11 million SP. I thought I'd see what was out there and was confused.

The organizations recruiting seemed to have an average of 15% tax rate. Some 10, some 20. During the interview, they were concerned with:

- Willingness to help the corp during ops.
- That I be 'self sufficent' Isk-wise.
- What ships I flew (not what I could fly but what I fly.


What is confusing to me is that if I have my own ships and am self-sufficient Isk-wise...why should I join this corporation? They take 15% of what I make. They take time out of my playing to run corp ops. What I don't understand is what I get out of it? The worst talk about generalities. The 'best' talk about some low end ships and such...but with a 15% tax rate I could afford my own.

What am I missing? If I'm not missing anything and most corps are just exploitive, where can I find a good corp? I don't really want to play a MMORPG by myself but am not willing to be exploited either.

Smoke Adian
Caldari
League of Gentlemen
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.05.21 13:53:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Nuela
I don't really want to play a MMORPG by myself


You answered your own question Smile.

I can't imagine how boring EVE would be just tooling around on your own. For most people, this game is all about being apart of a community.

RLCHANCE
Amarr
The Shadow Cartel
War and Pestilence
Posted - 2010.05.21 13:54:00 - [3]
 

join my corp u could do that:Plol i dunno 15% is pretty hi:P but corp ops are there to help your corp have isk and not being poor

Illadelph Justice
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.21 13:57:00 - [4]
 

some corps are more exploitative than others. some actually help each other out with corp money (which is the point of the tax rate anyway).

in before the trolling

Nuela
Caldari
Beacon Light Corporation
Beacon Light Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.21 14:01:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Smoke Adian
Originally by: Nuela
I don't really want to play a MMORPG by myself


You answered your own question Smile.

I can't imagine how boring EVE would be just tooling around on your own. For most people, this game is all about being apart of a community.


Yes...but I don't want to pay for 'companionship'. I would feel used.

Regulator6
Minmatar
New Eden Regimental Navy
Rebel Alliance of New Eden
Posted - 2010.05.21 14:03:00 - [6]
 

Maybe that should be a question you ask... where does the tax isk go? Some of it will go towards paying office fee's or in the case of an alliance alliacne fees. For new or small corps they might go towards purchasing BPO's or control towers for that kind of thing or towards some type of ship replacement during wartime (which will happen). If you venture out towards 0.0 tax and other incomes support the war machine. People join corps/alliances for mutual protection and profit.

Nuela
Caldari
Beacon Light Corporation
Beacon Light Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.21 14:06:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Regulator6
Maybe that should be a question you ask... where does the tax isk go? Some of it will go towards paying office fee's or in the case of an alliance alliacne fees. For new or small corps they might go towards purchasing BPO's or control towers for that kind of thing or towards some type of ship replacement during wartime (which will happen). If you venture out towards 0.0 tax and other incomes support the war machine. People join corps/alliances for mutual protection and profit.


So, what I should look for is essentially 0.0 access and infrastrucure? That could be reasonable...

Schani Kratnorr
Amarr
x13
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.21 14:10:00 - [8]
 

You find a proper group/corp/guild just like you find friends. Ask people about a corp before joining. Try asking ex-members if possible. Try to learn a little about what the corp ACTUALLY does from day to day. Make sure those activities fit your in-game interests.

A lot of corps. are all "we like to pvp, mine, produce, sell, trade, build outposts, run missions and fight empire wars." But most of them have to settle for less.

I guess the answer is; you need to find out what you think is fun, and get together with a group of people who share the same view of what is fun.

Killertox
Caldari
black-body
Posted - 2010.05.21 14:15:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nuela


So, what I should look for is essentially 0.0 access and infrastrucure? That could be reasonable...


Tbh unless you have some corp history from hi sec corperations and you have been in a noob corp youre whole playing time you will find it hard to get accepted into an 0.0 corp in the fear of you beeing an hostile infiltrator. Depending on what part of the game you like, pvp, indy etc find a well renown hi sec corp first and then venture out to a low sec / 0.0 corp. if you dont know how to move around low sec and 0.0 you will find it hard to get accepted

CBBOMBERMAN
Gallente
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
Posted - 2010.05.21 14:18:00 - [10]
 

You got to step back and realize how the whle process goes together before you can answer your own questions....
Alliances specially in 0.0 may have taxes. These taxes can be used to pay rent to other alliances or used for internal growth of the corp example to buy POS for moon mining etc.
The reason why you were probably asked waht you fly instead of what you can fly is simple. Been able to fly it a ship does not mean you have flown it, or that you have sufficient experince in that ship or that you fell confortavble flying a specific ship. By telling them what you specifically fly, it tell the recruiter where you are as far as experince in pvp and in waht fleet or group of ppl they can put you in for training or ops.
What you get out of paying tax is access to higher prized rats so you will always make more money than you would get in empire space. And all this tax really goes to either rent or alliance improvements or ship replacement program etc. And bytherway 15% is very high. Most pay between 5 and 10%.
If you really want to know where the tax goes you can ask or if you know about the politics of the game then you can figger out if the alliance is a pet of someother alliance or is the alliance the major alliance in the area or is the alliance renting space from other alliances. This way you can figger out where the money goes.

CBBOMBERMAN
Gallente
Eclipse Industrials
Quantum Forge
Posted - 2010.05.21 14:26:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: CBBOMBERMAN on 21/05/2010 14:26:48
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr

I guess the answer is; you need to find out what you think is fun, and get together with a group of people who share the same view of what is fun.


this is very true.
PS you should aalso know what the corp or alliance time zone is. In most cases you dont want to be in a corp or alliance where most ppl are in a complete different time zone than you.

Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.05.21 15:15:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: CBBOMBERMAN
You got to step back and realize how the whle process goes together before you can answer your own questions....
Alliances specially in 0.0 may have taxes. These taxes can be used to pay rent to other alliances or used for internal growth of the corp example to buy POS for moon mining etc.
The reason why you were probably asked waht you fly instead of what you can fly is simple. Been able to fly it a ship does not mean you have flown it, or that you have sufficient experince in that ship or that you fell confortavble flying a specific ship. By telling them what you specifically fly, it tell the recruiter where you are as far as experince in pvp and in waht fleet or group of ppl they can put you in for training or ops.
What you get out of paying tax is access to higher prized rats so you will always make more money than you would get in empire space. And all this tax really goes to either rent or alliance improvements or ship replacement program etc. And bytherway 15% is very high. Most pay between 5 and 10%.
If you really want to know where the tax goes you can ask or if you know about the politics of the game then you can figger out if the alliance is a pet of someother alliance or is the alliance the major alliance in the area or is the alliance renting space from other alliances. This way you can figger out where the money goes.




15% isn't that high overall. It really depends on the type of corp. For instance, Reikoku has a 20% tax IIRC but that's used to fund members' ships, logistics efforts and so forth. It's money well spent and is "low" for what you get in return.

My own corp, when were sov holding, had a 15% tax rate starting at the beginning of the month which would cover the fuel costs of POSs, jump freighters and logistical efforts as well as rent - after these were covered, the tax rate was lowered to 0% until the beginning of the next month.

That's just 2 examples of a "high" rate actually paying off over a lower rate overall.

Unless all you are concerned about is how much isk you can rat away v0v

Nostradamous
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.05.21 15:24:00 - [13]
 

Joining corporations, opens many doors to new friendships. I know most probably say something along the lines of "Why do I need to make friends for, Its a game" But to be completely honest, this is more then a game to many (and I'm not referring to those that take this game way...WAY too seriously).

My only reason to continue playing eve-online is strictly to speak to friends Ive made, and with any luck I wont miss the next DTHI meet, so I can meet Scrapple/Manlish/Dasty and as much of the east coast crew as i can.

Of course this is my personal opinion, and I don't expect many (if any) to particularly agree with my views.

Butternut Squash
Gallente
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.05.21 15:41:00 - [14]
 

Ask yourself the same question about real life ... why would you go and work for a company instead of setting up in business for yourself.

If you achieve anything in your own business then it is your achievement and the rewards are generally yours, whereas if you work for a company, you may never be a millionaire but also you are unlikely to go bankrupt.

As someone has already mentioned, ratting rewards and roid quality are much better in 0.0 however you really have to earn your place in 0.0.

in my opinion the thing that bonds people in 0.0 corps is a common fight, against a virtual enemy, that may be defending your space and ratting/indy rights or it may be conquering new space and dealing a bitter blow to those who oppose you.

The camraderie of a corporation can be a very binding force, however due to the anonimity of the Internet, it can also cause breached trust ... it is a case of taking the rough with the smooth.

Personally, I could not envisage playing Eve NOT in a corporation, to me it is what the game is all about ... however, it is horses for courses, some like it some don't.

Shmak DatAsh
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.05.21 15:50:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Nostradamous
Joining corporations, opens many doors to new friendships. I know most probably say something along the lines of "Why do I need to make friends for, Its a game" But to be completely honest, this is more then a game to many (and I'm not referring to those that take this game way...WAY too seriously).

My only reason to continue playing eve-online is strictly to speak to friends Ive made, and with any luck I wont miss the next DTHI meet, so I can meet Scrapple/Manlish/Dasty and as much of the east coast crew as i can.

Of course this is my personal opinion, and I don't expect many (if any) to particularly agree with my views.



Where my name at on that list mr.... u cheatin on me for scrapple now?!?!?!?!

/me runs away and cries....

Dianne Saber
Caldari
Saberick Interest and Development
FreiTek Heavy Industries
Posted - 2010.05.21 15:54:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Nostradamous

My only reason to continue playing eve-online is strictly to speak to friends Ive made, and with any luck I wont miss the next DTHI meet, so I can meet Scrapple/Manlish/Dasty and as much of the east coast crew as i can.


Though Dasty, Scrapple and Manlish would be fun... Ace Frehley would be faaaar more interesting!

S1euth
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.05.21 15:54:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: S1euth on 21/05/2010 21:32:40
o/ Nuela,

My corporation:
-Filled with RL friends and in-game acquaintances that share similar goals
-Offers me plenty of opportunities to PvP with fantastic FCs and peers who selflessly provide training via "bootcamps" on a regular basis
-Replaces my ship losses including capital ships
-Provides the foundation services for an online community (Forums, Killboards, Development community for support applications, etc)
-Provides ratting outpost control towers in NPC space, jump bridges, reaction refineries, 20 anomaly systems, capital ship production opportunities, and related system upgrades
-Buys all the minerals I can mine at market price and delivers anything I want to purchases to our home system at 10% above cost. (Great Benefit!)

Other benefits exist, but for a 15% cost to ratting it is a small price to pay and I couldn't imagine playing EVE alone.

Nostradamous
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.05.21 16:03:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Shmak DatAsh
Where my name at on that list mr.... u cheatin on me for scrapple now?!?!?!?!

/me runs away and cries....


Well as Dasty lives in NY, and Manlish/Scrapple live in the Philly area. I would be seeing them on my way down to give your wife that foot rub I owe her! Wink

Killertox
Caldari
black-body
Posted - 2010.05.21 16:15:00 - [19]
 

This is CAOD ffs.... What have this forum become Rolling Eyes Let the trolling comence!!

Chia Mulholland
Caldari
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.05.21 16:18:00 - [20]
 

Ask them what they use the taxes for.

If they can't/won't give a satisfactory answer, then move on.

Illadelph Justice
Minmatar
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.21 16:25:00 - [21]
 

On topic:
Originally by: Schani Kratnorr
I guess the answer is; you need to find out what you think is fun, and get together with a group of people who share the same view of what is fun.


This. Think about what you want to do and find people who want to do that too. It's incredibly boring to float around in space by yourself. Kinda defeats the purpose, really. And honestly, you might find out that your idea of what is fun changes over time. You might do like I did and start out as an industrialist, find out how boring that can be, and decide to change career paths and go total combat. When that happens you either find a place in your corp where you can play the game the way you want to or find somewhere else.

Off topic:
Originally by: Nostradamous
...and Manlish/Scrapple live in the Philly area...

Where are these Philly cats I keep hearing about? I have yet to meet other than myself.

aeoluse
Gallente
The Capitalist Protectorate
Mad Scientists
Posted - 2010.05.21 16:43:00 - [22]
 

I always thought of it in terms of joining a club in RL.

You want to play football (soccer), you could buy a ball and have a kick around in the park by yourself. It would be fun for a bit but after awhile it would get rather boring. You might be lucky and have some friends who have free time occasionally at the same time as you and live next to the same park, so you get to play with them a bit.

But really you want to play a proper game, 5 a-side or full 11, so you pay to join a football club, who not only has the facilities but also the numbers and you get to play competitively with them every week and train with them as well. But it also means you have found new friends as well as your old ones and you get new people to go drinking with, hanging out with, etc.

That's how I see corps in Eve. You save your money if you play alone but if you play with others then the experience is so much more fun!

Danny Lonnegan
Caldari
United Amarr Templar Legion
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2010.05.21 19:16:00 - [23]
 

EVE is a terrible single-player game, tbh. Even moreso than the other MMOs in which I've dabbled. Missions and ratting, unless you're punching way above your weight (running L3s in a cruiser or something, in which case you'll never make any money), are predictable grinds, and I can't imagine what mining solo must be like. Solo PVP is possible if you're good and lucky, but that's a tough row to hoe for many pilots.

Joining a corp doesn't making ratting or mining any more interesting in and of themselves, but if you're in a corp full of fun, interesting people, then the fun is in chat and over ventrillo--it's the difference between, say, painting a fence by yourself and painting a fence with a couple of your beer buddies, shooting the **** while you work. It also greatly speeds up the work, of course--even splitting the bounties and rewards three or four ways, I made more money running L4s in a group than solo in a Drake.

Having corp mates also opens doors to you that you just can't on your own. When I was a brand new noob in a Coercer, I got to join a 0.0 corp and made big money running in plexes where I would have gotten insta-squished alone. Null itself is a hard, hard place without friends; there are always a few guys in covops or Vagabonds who hunt alone, and more power to them, but most of the time it's going to be blob bubble blob blob hotdrop die. And without access to any intel channels, you'll have no idea what's lurking on the other side of the next gate.

If you're into PVP, or you're looking to try it, a corp is by far the best way to go. A good corp will find a role for you even if you're inexperienced, and lots of experienced pilots will take a newcomer under their wings (I was lucky enough to be taken in by a very good FC, which made me a much better fleet pilot; I'm still mostly terrible, but I'm less terrible than otherwise Very Happy). And being in a corp means you don't have to solo PVP. It might be a small gang, it might be a huge blob, but you'll have guys to fight with. A gang is worth more than the sum of its parts--a two-man gang is far more than twice as potent as a solo PVPer, all other things being equal.

All that said, there's a lot of fail corps out there and there are more that are perfectly good but won't be a good fit for you. Follow the advice others have given you in this thread: ask questions about where the taxes go, where they live, what they actually do (everyone says they "PVP, mission, mine", but I've never heard of a corp that does all three things equally or equally well). Don't settle for canned answers; a recruiter who really enjoys his corp will be happy to give specifics, and if he's being cagey, something's probably wrong. And if you join and it's not working out, don't be afraid to move on. Most longtime players have long employment histories. Don't burn your bridges or anything, but there's no shame in changing corps if your old one isn't a good fit for you.

Tal Jestar
Caldari
Thunderstealers
Posted - 2010.05.21 22:17:00 - [24]
 

we actually tax 20% but our members make more from what we provide that not being in our corp. plus 100% of our tax goes back to the member, so really any sort of tax that does not eventually go back to members or does not pay for something that provide members a place to make isk, is a bad corp.

like everyone above said eve is about people. like everyone above have said, find a corp that does what you like to do, that are active, and if they tax they provide a service that the tax eventually comes back to you in some way.

Imigo Montoya
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.05.21 22:52:00 - [25]
 

Some really good responses so far, especially about finding a corp that fits your interests. No two corps are the same, and that goes for both what they require and what they offer.

15% tax is pretty high for an empire corp, but pretty standard for a 0.0 corp. There are some empire corps who have a 1% tax rate, some even 0%.

Corps with lower tax rates offer different things, in some cases it's as simple as providing people to fly missions and go roaming with, with just enough to cover corp/alliance/wardec costs. Some don't offer POS access, transport logistics, or ship replacement because they are, and expect their members to be (or become), independent players who want to have fun combat (PvE to make money, PvP to have fun) in a group of like-minded easy going people.

So like many have discussed, EVE is a true MMO, not a massively single player online game like many, but a game where all game mechanics encourage cooperative play. The way you cooperate is up to you and how you want to play.

Funkcikle
Gallente
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.21 23:04:00 - [26]
 

How dare you question the status Quo !, Burn the witch

(p.s for 500 mill I can arrange for you to get into priory of the lemon)

Quacka
Minmatar
Dark Tree Industries
Posted - 2010.05.21 23:35:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Quacka on 21/05/2010 23:36:19
My answer to this question has always been this...

You need to rewrite your mind. Get rid of the concept of self growth and adopt the mindset of growing the corp as a whole. Once this is done you will see. "Ask not what your corp can do for you. Ask what you can do for your corp" -Lincoln (or Washington... or something)

Or you can just do what I do and use corp chat as a chat room and a way of getting to the action.

Prieith
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.05.21 23:43:00 - [28]
 

A good corp is where you have fellow members that makes you laugh and that you enjoy being with.
In addition it can have some or all of the following:
- a corp shop where you can buy fully fitted ships for much less than actual cost
- Replaces your T1 ships lost in corp ops.
- have members who will haul your **** around for free or at a reasonable cost.
- Gets you your first capital ship at a great price.
- access to space that you will benefit from being in.
- access to research/manufacture/invention/copying slots in pos's for you to use.
- and many other things that other people have mentioned in this thread.

You can find a corp like this, if you are patient, browse the internet and start to ask questions.
Sometimes you have to suck it up and be in a training corp, or trial and so on for a month or more to be accepted, they will monitor your activities.

Everyone will ask you if you are self sufficient, because if you are broke, you cant buy new ships to fight with, even if it comes at a cheaper price.


Shinma Apollo
Caldari
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2010.05.21 23:46:00 - [29]
 

If being ceo meant you could pocket the tax rate easily, it still wouldn't be worth it. Typically taxes go to fuel a very small portion of stuff like oh so fun pos fueling (DEAR CCP, MAKE THE LITTLE GREEN MEN OFF MY POS' PLANETS EASILY EXPLOITABLE AND ENSLAVABLE TO FUEL POS, THEN TYRRANIS WON'T SUCK) But rarely can you really get away with a full pocket. Corp offices, alliance bills, etc.

Second, corps let you have a group of goals, and in turn, access to certain higher end content (lowsec/0.0/WH space) that would be either difficult or boring without corp mates. If your only intention is to make isk, I hear china's a good place to move if you want to rat 23/7.

Wild Rho
Amarr
Silent Core
Posted - 2010.05.22 09:48:00 - [30]
 

Corporations (or at least the successful ones) are cooperative by nature and need to be organised - they are almost certainly competing with other corps one way or another.
This means that they are looking at what you can offer them as much as they can offer you so they need to know some of the important basics.

- Willingness to help the corp during ops.
This is a very critical issue to any corp that wants to get anywhere. Eve is a competitive game and a corp relies on its members to help it achieve its goals, otherwise you're just dead weight living off other peoples efforts.
It's also part of the socialising aspect of the game, why should you join a corp if you never actually want to take part?

- That I be 'self sufficent' Isk-wise.
Many corps offer some form of service (such as ship replacement programs, discount markets etc) to members but they also can't afford to pay for everything you'll need. Being self sufficient means the corp can be in a position to help you but doesn't have to babysit you (financially) either.

- What ships I flew (not what I could fly but what I fly.
This ties into the two points above. What ships you have and use gives them a decent idea of your experience and whether its worth their time helping you get the hulls you need. It basically shows if you're likely to be an asset to the corp or an expense.


What is confusing to me is that if I have my own ships and am self-sufficient Isk-wise...why should I join this corporation?
The same reason you join any corp. If they are offering something that matches what you're looking for it's up to you to decide if you think it's worth it. The game revolves around a lot more than just your wallet.


They take 15% of what I make. They take time out of my playing to run corp ops. What I don't understand is what I get out of it?
That depends on the corp and what you want. The 15% isk may go towards replacement programs that you benefit from someday or possibly supporting assets that let you live out in 0.0 and make a lot more isk than you would in empire. For many, doing ops as a corp is much more interesting than doing them solo (again Eve isn't all about isk) and you get more satisfaction form the game working with others towards a common goal.
It's up to you to decide if this style of play is for you.


The worst talk about generalities. The 'best' talk about some low end ships and such...but with a 15% tax rate I could afford my own.
There are plenty of corps that try to exploit new members and plenty that don't. It's up to you to use your judgement but try to look at things from both the corps and your own point of view first.


What am I missing? If I'm not missing anything and most corps are just exploitive, where can I find a good corp? I don't really want to play a MMORPG by myself but am not willing to be exploited either.

You're mistaking pooling resources and cooperative play with being exploited. The game is not just about you and your needs so you will need to decide whether you prefer playing solo and looking out for number 1 or sacrificing some personal convenience to enjoy a shared experience with others.


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