open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: Courier Missions Revamp
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5

Author Topic

Cygnet Lythanea
World Welfare Works Association
Posted - 2010.05.23 01:51:00 - [91]
 

So, the macros have moved from mining to missions now...? *sigh* At least it's not as bad as Ragnarok Online where they have built in chatbots so they talk nonsense....

So, why doesn't CCP just try doing what other games GM's do and try chatting with one to see if it's a bot?

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.23 02:32:00 - [92]
 

Originally by: Cygnet Lythanea
So, the macros have moved from mining to missions now...? *sigh* At least it's not as bad as Ragnarok Online where they have built in chatbots so they talk nonsense....

So, why doesn't CCP just try doing what other games GM's do and try chatting with one to see if it's a bot?


because eve only has 1 server. This means when they try chatting to someone they have no idea what language they speak. What may seem like gobly goop macro speak to one GM may actually be just a different language.

Jane Andrews
Posted - 2010.05.23 11:45:00 - [93]
 


What will the changes be to 0.0 lvl4 courier missions where the agent's constellation is a pocket only accessed through another region? will the missions require one to fly through the region next door and back into a constellation withing the mission agents region or will cross region missions into the constelation next door be avallable in these situations?

Ophelia Ursus
Posted - 2010.05.23 12:39:00 - [94]
 

Uh, you have considered the impact of macro-haulers on these stats, right? There are major macro hubs in Minmatar and Gallente space (Ingunn and Jovainnon, respectively) that have multiple L4Q20 hauler agents in a single station; these agents are farmed 23/7 by very obvious macros/isk farmers. I'm not aware of any such hubs in Caldari/Amarr space (looking at eve-agents, Naka and Illamur might come close, but they only have two L4Q20 agents apiece), I'd suggest looking into those before doing anything else in terms of balancing the numbers of courier missions being run for different factions. For that matter, if you just made the cargo in L4 couriers worth a bit of isk, the local pirates would take care of this particular balancing issue for you at no charge. Very Happy


Originally by: Liang Nuren
Does this mean that you are aware of (and have put these items in some sort of queue for either your team to work on or for another team):
- The disparity of item quality in Gallente/Minmatar vs Caldari/Amarr LP stores



Off topic, but... wat? Discarding things like damage mods (which are equally good for all factions; RF gyro == IN heat sink == GN magstab), mods that will never be sold because of stupidly high tag demands ('sup, IN small neuts), and ammo (good isk/lp for minnies, ok for amarr, terribad for gallente/caldari) you're left with the following better-than-T2 mods per faction:

Amarr: EANMs, reppers, cap boosters, medium/large neuts (I *think* the tag reqs on these are comparatively reasonable...?)
Gallente: Webs, ABs, tracking computers, SeBos, technically MWDs
Minmatar: Warp disruptors, ABs, technically MWDs, TEs, nanos, and ODs (although lawl)
Caldari: Invulns, all missile launchers (although terrible isk/lp on these), shield boosters

Doesn't seem particularly imbalanced to me. *shrug*

Gnulpie
Minmatar
Miner Tech
Posted - 2010.05.23 19:55:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: iaMsOInSAnE

I can tell you why those figures are off..

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/Sist

Head to the Sist system. watch the traffic. 7,000+ jumps in the last day, for a small system with one belt and two stations, 99% of those jumps are courier bots. Hang out for a bit and watch.

*edit* this is just one example...


But that would need two things...

a) admitting that Eve has a bot problem, or at least parts of Eve (especially those repetitive, boring and cumbersome things. mark my words, Planetary Interaction will be INFESTED with bots just because of the bad gameplay design)

b) knowing the game instead of just looking at the numbers and from there trying to figure out what is going on in eve

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2010.05.23 22:27:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
For that matter, if you just made the cargo in L4 couriers worth a bit of isk, the local pirates would take care of this particular balancing issue for you at no charge. Very Happy



That would break things in other ways especially if the loot was worth a lot more than the mission itself.

Basically my friends and myself would spend a lot of time killing the macro couriers and we were of course punished for it (by dropping to -9.0 or lower).

The local pirates get bored of killing them and instead hunt anyone killing the macros because real people are more fun to fight. In addition you can sometimes kill enough couriers to get some badly flown bs spawns, but nothing special.

Out of all the couriers we killed I only had one person tell me in local that they wouldn't send me a christmas card that year.

I have tested the new missions and I can state without a doubt that the missions are now horrible with the extra jumps (as if they weren't bad enough already). You're better off speed running level 2's for standing and lp.

Skyrape
Posted - 2010.05.24 17:32:00 - [97]
 

Hi,

We want to see T2 tier 2 BC's and T2 tier 3 BS'es please.

And Jove ships, at least the basic classes like frig, cruiser, BC and BS. Make them require a MST of skills to fly so we don't get all noobs and carebears to fly them.

And we also want more fuel space on black ops and the jump range increased. These ships should be able to jump farther than capitals. They should also be able to warp cloaked. Right now they're pretty useless if you think of price and training time. So FIX IT!

And you can also add more faction cruisers.

Also drop the damn T3 prices as they're a big turn off at the moment. I can buy 5 T2 fit BS'es and do a lot more than with a T3 right now.

So... GET!

Please.

And thanks.

ShadowandLight
Amarr
Cryptonym Sleepers
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.05.25 00:15:00 - [98]
 

wait..

so you are balancing mission locations

but the vagabond is still vastly superior then any other HAC

the Dramiel is the end all of PVP frigates ( save for very special fits )

and you find that balanced?

or let me guess, wrong department......

NI3LS
Posted - 2010.05.25 13:25:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: CCP Tallest
Giving one faction a clear advantage over another faction is necessarily bad; players of all factions should have access to similar resources. Balanced missions among factions also help to spread out EVE's population, which is good for the server and desirable for our population.
I much appreciate your sentiment...


In this regard, I would like to point out the following:


All Factions except Amarr have LEVEL 4 COMBAT MISSION AGENTS located in high sec space (Agents giving ~95% combat missions in 0.5 and higher systems)



If you would like to run L4 combat missions in EVE without fear of getting an expensive PVE-fitted ship ganked, it is NO PROBLEM unless you are Amarr!

Not only do you have to go low sec, every last one of the Amarr L4 combat mission agents are also very far from the main Amarr space. Any Amarr agents not in low sec give far too high a percentage of courier missions. Further, Amarr pilots are not ok simply flying missions in Caldari space, as the predominant NPC's to fight there are not well suited for Amarr damage types



I think this truly deserves fixing, and since you've had Agents move from station to station often and for lesser reasons, I imagine it could not be too work-intensive to fix...

.

Drenan
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.05.25 13:48:00 - [100]
 


So ccp has time to 'fix' courier missions...but no time to fix rockets? Rolling Eyes


Chi Quan
Bibkor Enterprises
Posted - 2010.05.25 15:24:00 - [101]
 

Edited by: Chi Quan on 25/05/2010 15:27:07
Originally by: Ophelia Ursus
Amarr: EANMs, reppers, cap boosters, medium/large neuts (I *think* the tag reqs on these are comparatively reasonable...?)
Gallente: Webs, ABs, tracking computers, SeBos, technically MWDs
Minmatar: Warp disruptors, ABs, technically MWDs, TEs, nanos, and ODs (although lawl)
Caldari: Invulns, all missile launchers (although terrible isk/lp on these), shield boosters

Doesn't seem particularly imbalanced to me. *shrug*

Correction:
Amarr: all armor mods + repers, cap booster, neuts+nos
Gallente: webifier (ONE item, 2 deadspace type have higher range and a 3. equal range), smartbombs (not that ppl care that much about these)
Minmatar: painter (ONE item), warp disruptor (ONE item), TEs (ONE item), MWD+AB
Caldari: all missile related charges and mods, all shield mods


and agreeing with what was said about missions for caldari/amarr from posters like Liang

NI3LS
Posted - 2010.05.25 16:45:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Zargyl
courier missions are more boring than combat missions, and ppl do them mostly because they can be done while doing something else (like watching TV)


That's no different for L4 combat missions or ratting... its basically impossible to do that without having some entertainment, lest the endless grind puts u to sleep. Watching old startrek or stargate episodes has kept my head from dropping to the keyboard for hundreds of millions of ratting ISK's.

Like Nighthawks aren't popular for their kill-speed, but for being able to go to the bathroom or kitchen when u feel like it.


It does sound like they made all courier missions suck uniformly now. Doesn't bother me too much, cause they were unacceptable to me already: When a game's grinding gets too dreadful, the thought of just working somewhere for real money becomes inescapable.

Trinity Chaw
Posted - 2010.05.26 09:46:00 - [103]
 

Puke

JitaPriceChecker2
Posted - 2010.05.26 10:38:00 - [104]
 

CCP You are hypocrites .

Quote:
Giving one faction a clear advantage over another faction is necessarily bad; players of all factions should have access to similar resources. Balanced missions among factions also help to spread out EVE's population, which is good for the server and desirable for our population.


Guess what ?

GALLENTE STORYLINE MISSIONS

And much more.

Usul Atreides
Posted - 2010.05.26 14:16:00 - [105]
 

SO MUCH WHINING! Shocked

Rikki Sals
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.26 17:04:00 - [106]
 

Nice to see the effort at bringing some balance.

Indeed, LP store items need a revamp. The ONLY faction Minmatar/Gallente module I ever find myself looking for is the 10mn Republic Fleet AB. All the weapons and tanking modules Amarr/Caldari have to offer are better than their tech II and Minmatar/Gallente counterparts.

But who knows... maybe this disparity is intentional to reflect the image of Minmatar flying rusty clunkers...?

Lucid Daze
Posted - 2010.05.27 03:10:00 - [107]
 

So having run a dozen missions post patch I have to say they've killed honest courier mission running.

But even worse they switched almost all the missions to non "specific item" cargoes allowing them to potentially be instantly completed...

I really don't think players(macros?) who have the alts and time to stockpile the items and run 20 chars with an agent should be rewarded this way.

I really hope they do a fast Tyrannis 1.1 to fix this.

If you can't make functional missions just remove courier missions altogether.

Mr LaForge
Posted - 2010.05.28 13:50:00 - [108]
 

What they didn't mention is this affect combat missions too to some extent.

Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Posted - 2010.05.29 04:15:00 - [109]
 

So can we get a pretty little pie chart of combat mission faction percentages? Because I suspect you'll find Gallente are practically deserted due to your "imaginative" new storyline system, and there's probably still a huge lean towards Caldari combat missions.

Ksendar
Minmatar
Crowded Igloo
Posted - 2010.05.31 08:44:00 - [110]
 

Courier missions were always boring and unprofitable, but at least they were over quickly and you could get onto something interesting. As a result of analysis that rivals 'elephants paint their feet yellow to hide in refrigerators and have you ever seen an elephant in your refrigerator', courier missions are now boring, unprofitable and time-consuming. Most game designers don't regard raising the boredom quotient as a triumph of their art. No doubt CCP will cure this defect by telling us that these nerfed missions are an 'exciting' development.

Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.01 20:29:00 - [111]
 

I guess the new courier missions are the hundreds of new missions, that were promised years ago but were never delivered.

Viral Effect
Caldari
BRAINDEAD Corp
Posted - 2010.06.06 09:23:00 - [112]
 

CCP messed this one up well and truely.

Ona Otana
Posted - 2010.06.07 16:12:00 - [113]
 

Edited by: Ona Otana on 08/06/2010 20:14:16
Edited by: Ona Otana on 07/06/2010 16:13:09
After running courier missions for several factions, i can see the size of the cargo and the number of jumps seems to have been normalized.

Yet, the size of the LP rewards for those missions is all over the place! Have you taken a look at the rewards for completing those missions? Have those been normalized as well?

Thanks.

Edit:
From the point of view of balancing LP rewards for the courier missions, I've had a courier mission through empire space give more LPs than one that required me to go through low-sec space. Yes, the cargo size was smaller, but that is insignificant compared to risking my ship and pod.
Again, pls balance the LP rewards.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2010.06.07 19:16:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: NI3LS

All Factions except Amarr have LEVEL 4 COMBAT MISSION AGENTS located in high sec space (Agents giving ~95% combat missions in 0.5 and higher systems)

.


In my experience this is not exactly true. It's just that they are not in the amarr navy if my memory serves me correct. Granted that part of the LP store is somewhat crap compared to 'combat' section of amarr LP store. And I would not swear that it's 95/5 %, might be 90/10 perhaps. Have not measured.

Celest Evania
Posted - 2010.06.09 17:28:00 - [115]
 

Amarr has plenty of combat agents for combat oriented corporations in high sec. The only exception to that is the Amarr Navy itself, which to my knowledge has all it's level IV agents right next to the level Vs in rightfully pirate infested Aridia.

This rebalance will do nothing but ensure I don't ever accept a courier mission again. I can't stand flying 10 jumps in that stupidly slow industrial. The only couriers I would take before are the ones that allowed me to use a frigate or shuttle, and that was because I could burn them down fast enough to not really warrant using my reject option.

If you didn't multiply the rewards for these missions by at least a factor of 4, you're going to see them simply never done. EVE isn't entertaining when all you do is autopilot everywhere. And if I wanted to do that I'd get a freighter out and most player goods to and from Jita. At least then I can get some real isk/hour rewards.

5Half Hatsize
Posted - 2010.08.14 14:32:00 - [116]
 

I think you are all missing something here, namely, what is the point of courier missions?

Why are they even in the game? Is it because they are fun and enjoyable to do? - I struggle to see this.

Is it because they help you ease into the game by developing your knowledge of how the EVE universe works?

Again, difficult to see the point, once you have done one courier mission then you have pretty much done them all - and I'm talking here about missions that involve going from one station to another, not ones that go to or from stations to dead space areas, they can be as fun as any other mission.

Is it to "immerse" you deeper into the EVE universe? - Well, even that doesn't make sense, us players are supposed to be 'Demigods', why would Demigods be shifting crates from one station to another, surely we could pay someone else to do that? - Or just tell them to.

And most of all, why is it that the higher level a courier mission, the more stuff it involves you taking instead of making it more difficult to take the stuff to its destination? If you have the skills to fly an industrial, you can physically move all you need in one hit for any courier mission, but if the agent makes you do a combat mission beforehand, then unless you go off and fly your industrial to the agents base, you have to make multiple trips to complete the mission.

WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND FINDS THIS ENJOYABLE?

Courier missions make sense for level 1 missions but not anything higher, after level 1 they are just annoying.


Wolfcheck
The Ice Cartel
Posted - 2010.08.19 11:37:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: NI3LS
All Factions except Amarr have LEVEL 4 COMBAT MISSION AGENTS located in high sec space (Agents giving ~95% combat missions in 0.5 and higher systems)



EVE-AGENTS

Zaruh Pirusafa / Internal Security Required standing: 5,1
Corporation: Ministry of Internal Order
Station: Nahyeen IX - Moon 3 - Ministry of Internal Order Assembly Plant
System: Nahyeen (0.8) - Region: Kor-Azor - Faction: Amarr Empire
Locator Service: Yes
Agent type: Basic Agent

Gakib Ghasorar / Internal Security Required standing: 5,5
Corporation: Imperial Armaments
Station: Ziona V - Moon 1 - Imperial Armaments Warehouse
System: Ziona (0.6) - Region: Domain - Faction: Amarr Empire
Locator Service: No
Agent type: Basic Agent

Kianavina Yinayma / Internal Security Required standing: 5,6
Corporation: Emperor Family
Station: Soumi I - Moon 1 - Emperor Family Bureau
System: Soumi (0.6) - Region: Kor-Azor - Faction: Amarr Empire
Locator Service: No
Agent type: Basic Agent


L4 Q0
Hoz Onsula / Internal Security Required standing: 6,0
Corporation: Theology Council
Station: jarshitsan VIII - Moon 8 - Theology Council Tribunal
System: jarshitsan (0.6) - Region: Domain - Faction: Amarr Empire
Locator Service: No
Agent type: Basic Agent

Irabam Tobi / Internal Security Required standing: 6,0
Corporation: Ministry of Assessment
Station: Charra VII - Moon 19 - Ministry of Assessment Information Center
System: Charra (0.8) - Region: Domain - Faction: Amarr Empire
Locator Service: Yes
Agent type: Basic Agent

Zushkat Aphibtouh / Internal Security Required standing: 6,2
Corporation: Civic Court
Station: Salah V - Moon 1 - Civic Court Law School
System: Salah (0.8) - Region: Kador - Faction: Amarr Empire
Locator Service: No
Agent type: Basic Agent

Moranour Kom / Internal Security Required standing: 6,4
Corporation: Kador Family
Station: Shemah VIII - Moon 2 - Kador Family Bureau
System: Shemah (0.8) - Region: Kador - Faction: Amarr Empire
Locator Service: No
Agent type: Basic Agent

Ravya Drakiereh / Internal Security Required standing: 6,6
Corporation: Ministry of Assessment
Station: Inis-Ilix VII - Moon 1 - Ministry of Assessment Archives
System: Inis-Ilix (0.9) - Region: Kador - Faction: Amarr Empire
Locator Service: Yes
Agent type: Basic Agent

There's another 5 in "internal security". Command has 2 more. Administration is not as good but has another bunch.

Wolfcheck
The Ice Cartel
Posted - 2010.08.19 11:42:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Celest Evania
If you didn't multiply the rewards for these missions by at least a factor of 4, you're going to see them simply never done. EVE isn't entertaining when all you do is autopilot everywhere. And if I wanted to do that I'd get a freighter out and most player goods to and from Jita. At least then I can get some real isk/hour rewards.


Yep. At least kill missions have some fun and allow you to collect loot and salvage and bounties. That's isk. Couriers pay badly, require a big cargo and are boring... especially since you have to go BACK to your agent, and that's not been paid. If I get a 3 jumps out 4k m3 courier, I have to do 6 jumps to go there and back, plus maybe those needed to get a big enough ship... and to get what? about 25% of what I'd get for a kill mission, if even that.
Hardly worth it.

CCP Molock

Posted - 2010.08.19 17:46:00 - [119]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
How tall is CCP Tallest?


6'8", or 202 cm. He is seriously tall.

CCP Molock

Posted - 2010.08.19 17:50:00 - [120]
 

Originally by: Elaron
As has been said by a couple of other people, please use this justification to bring balance to LP store rewards...


I'm sure you guys get frustrated with hearing "that's not our department," but you have to understand that CCP is not a single, monolithic group of devs that share workload across all aspects of the game. Think about it: Do you figure UPS delivery drivers also do their own vehicle repairs? No, they have licensed mechanics who handle that for them.

EVE Content does not handle LP stores, so bringing that topic up in a thread about courier mission fixes is like getting angry with the clerk in a flower store because the air conditioning in the restaurant next door doesn't work.

/dose of reality


Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only