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blankseplocked An anti macro-bot mining proposal...
 
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Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.19 10:21:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Nooma K''Larr on 20/05/2010 11:23:05


Following a discussion in General Section, I propose the following to curb the problem with macro mining.

How about introducing a "captcha" to the whole mining scheme. Consider it an on the spot mining license. Every (insert m3 level here) that is mined, a captcha license renewal appears on screen requiring human input in order to continue mining.

Options can include auto lock-down of mining lasers if not renewed, or (a more drastic approach) even Concord intervention if you decide to continue. This could include a fine or even standing loss or even BOOM!! You're on your way home in a pod for mining without a current license.

It will work! Please consider it.


darius mclever
Posted - 2010.05.19 10:26:00 - [2]
 

you are trolling right?

there was the same proposal not even a day ago ...

and no ... captchas wouldnt solve the problem. captchas can be solved with just software already and you would annoy honest miner more than the macro miner.

*thumbs down*

Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
Posted - 2010.05.19 10:28:00 - [3]
 

Best is to put this in when one of the (Strip) Miners is halfway through the cycle. This should give an actual human enough time to enter a Captcha, without any mining amount coming in to be interrupted.

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.19 10:34:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
you are trolling right?

there was the same proposal not even a day ago ...

and no ... captchas wouldnt solve the problem. captchas can be solved with just software already and you would annoy honest miner more than the macro miner.

*thumbs down*


Nope...no troll, and I just came up with this idea so I dont know of any other.
It is seriously the only way to control the mining macro problem. Furthermore, captchas come in so many varieties that it is virtually impossible to continue to come up with anti-captcha software.

With a little ingenuity on CCP's part..this could work.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.05.19 10:52:00 - [5]
 

the real solution is a version of mining that cant be AFKed so easily ...

CCP promised comet mining would be exactly that. so instead of trying to nerf every poor soul that is doing mining out there ... think about a ways to make mining *interesting* instead of adding "annoying" to the "boring".


Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.19 11:37:00 - [6]
 

I support this.

+1

Yes, I know, people are screaming left and right that, boo-hoo, the AFK-miners will suffer. But you know what? With PvP-ers always complaining how lv 4 mission runners get money for nothing and the chicks for free, I say, What's the deal with AFK-mining-making-ISK then?

Also, don't be so quick to dismiss this. Perhaps you can be a little less AFK than you were used to; but it doesn't take a genius to figure out that, with an effective CAPTCHA, all macro-mining would stop overnight, and regular miners would see a huge increase in income.

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.19 12:05:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
with an effective CAPTCHA, all macro-mining would stop overnight, and regular miners would see a huge increase in income.


That's the key right there. I doubt miners would mind this "inconvenience" if they saw a jump in their income over it.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.05.19 12:14:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Originally by: Ranka Mei
with an effective CAPTCHA, all macro-mining would stop overnight, and regular miners would see a huge increase in income.


That's the key right there. I doubt miners would mind this "inconvenience" if they saw a jump in their income over it.

CAPTCHAs are cancer and you are a carcinogen. They are the worst method against macros ever to be thought up and you aren't even the first one to get to this silly idea. They are flow killers, immersion killers, gameplay killers. No game designer worth that job title will ever implement CAPTCHAs in a game.

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.19 12:45:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Originally by: Ranka Mei
with an effective CAPTCHA, all macro-mining would stop overnight, and regular miners would see a huge increase in income.


That's the key right there. I doubt miners would mind this "inconvenience" if they saw a jump in their income over it.

CAPTCHAs are cancer and you are a carcinogen. They are the worst method against macros ever to be thought up and you aren't even the first one to get to this silly idea. They are flow killers, immersion killers, gameplay killers. No game designer worth that job title will ever implement CAPTCHAs in a game.


I'm a carcinogen? What a clever boy you are.Rolling Eyes

Flow killer: How much flow do you need in mining? Seriously.
Immersion Killer: Um...it's called a mining LICENSE. Issued by the authority controlling the region(s) where said belts exist.
Game-play killer: Again, there is more action in Atari's Asteroids, then there is in EVE mining.

When miners start making serious isk, then we'll see who's crying.

Tribalist
Saints Amongst Sinners
Posted - 2010.05.19 13:13:00 - [10]
 

Instead of a timed captcha, enable any pilot to "query" any miner.. miner gets a logical question generated by the system i.e. "how much ore do you have in your cargo hold now?" or "what type of ore are you mining now?" if the miner ignores or misanswers it he gets a GCC for 15 minutes.. To avoid abuse only allow the challenge every 30 minutes, that would stop griefers from constantly "bugging" miners.

Allows player to safely kill macro miners without Security Hit.

Tribe

Miilla
Minmatar
Hulkageddon Orphanage
Posted - 2010.05.19 13:24:00 - [11]
 

I want this too then It is easier to gank them while they are typing in that Captcha for the 10th time. Please add this ccp :)

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.19 13:28:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Tribalist
Instead of a timed captcha, enable any pilot to "query" any miner.. miner gets a logical question generated by the system i.e. "how much ore do you have in your cargo hold now?" or "what type of ore are you mining now?" if the miner ignores or misanswers it he gets a GCC for 15 minutes.. To avoid abuse only allow the challenge every 30 minutes, that would stop griefers from constantly "bugging" miners.

Allows player to safely kill macro miners without Security Hit.

Tribe

Ooh that is a fun idea for low sec (lol low sec miners) and 0.0 miners. Prevents them from running away just when you are trying to gank them, give them one of those questions and you can easily kill them without those pesky miners warping out.

Idea was terrible the previous 9001 times it was suggested, nothing changed, so it is still terrible.

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.19 14:46:00 - [13]
 

Either this captcha thing is very unfrequent or mining will be broken.

I would like something more EVEish.

Erich Herrmann
Posted - 2010.05.19 17:20:00 - [14]
 

What a load of crap!

I semi-AFK mine all the time. Sit my Hulk in a belt, activate the strip miners and check back 15 minutes later, when my cargo is full, at which point I dock up, drop off ore, undock and repeat. Before you say: 'oh, you're doing it wrong!', it's just the same as a mission runner in a Domi warping into a site, taking all aggro, then releasing the drones and then returning 30 minutes later to find the mission or room cleared.

So what would happen to me? I lock a 'roid, activate lasers, continue working on my essay or tidying my room or revising or whatever, only to return to my screen 15 minutes later to find my Hulk reduced to a wreck because some stupid system thinks I'm a macro?

Please. When you suggest ideas, think about the repercussions. Think about instances where innocent people will be penalised. Use that thing between your ears and behind your eyes. Or, check out EVE Search.

Party Scout
Posted - 2010.05.19 19:02:00 - [15]
 

No captchas. I'm mining here, nor logging into a bank website.

Make mining an active profession. Make it MORE profitable. Make it exciting, make it skill based. How? I have no idea. That's what the genious game programers at CCP are getting our $15 each month to figure it out.

Making it active and fun (and profitable at the same time), will get rid of macroers. AFKers too, but tough luck. The game is here to be played, not to be left running alone.

DuKackBoon
Posted - 2010.05.19 20:21:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: DuKackBoon on 19/05/2010 20:23:51
Edited by: DuKackBoon on 19/05/2010 20:21:45
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr


I'm a carcinogen? What a clever boy you are.Rolling Eyes

When miners start making serious isk, then we'll see who's crying.


Yes you are, and no, captchas solve no problem only make more.

Also, macros can solve captchas faster than a miner -> miner makes less isk, macro makes more isk.

Ganagati
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.05.19 21:03:00 - [17]
 

Just because this is the 4th time this week a captcha from mining has come up does not suddenly make it anywhere near the resemblance of good a idea. We like having miners.

ON the other hand- I like the idea of more easily gankable miners as they struggle to retype for the 10th time the ridiculous captcha or be forced to move. They'll be so intent on it I could ride right up their *** before they'll know I'm there.

In other words, this is NOT a suggestion to get rid of macro miners but it IS a suggestion to make the lives of miners harder and make my job of ganking them much easier.

My stance has changed. +1

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.19 21:46:00 - [18]
 

Man, what a bunch of cry-babies.

I dont want my mining experience ruined with a captcha...WHAAAAAAAAA!!!Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

A captch doesnt have to be hard for you to read and type in...just hard for a bot to read. That's where ingenuity comes in.

As for those who brought up "ganking." How long does it take you to type in a few letters and numbers. Seriously.


darius mclever
Posted - 2010.05.19 21:54:00 - [19]
 

depends on how badly the captcha is readable.

for some sites i need 2-3 runs to decypher what letters they have deformed there.

DuKackBoon
Posted - 2010.05.19 22:09:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: DuKackBoon on 19/05/2010 22:09:57
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Man, what a bunch of cry-babies.

I dont want my mining experience ruined with a captcha...WHAAAAAAAAA!!!Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.


FYI: I've not mined for half a year, only did it with friends to help them a bit, or with the corp. I preffer to blow miners up.

Edit: -1/10 for brining up the same garbage for the 10000000th time.

Also I could say the cry-baby thing about you too "Buaahhhh! Evil macros ruining mah profets!!!"

Aurora Keller
Posted - 2010.05.20 00:43:00 - [21]
 

Not a bad idea except for the fact yeah honest miners would get annoyed. But considering the trends of macro miners, you can usually report them easily...

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.05.20 02:50:00 - [22]
 

Utterly stupid proposal from an utterly stupid troll.

Some miners engage in other activities while also mining and don't need a stupid box popping up asking to prove they are active.

This nonsense extends to mission runners who are equally likely to be running a macro. In fact the key aspects of ANY form of PVE can be run from a macro so you would have to introduce this for all PVE.

If you had spent more than 2 seconds before posting this crap you would realise this; but then you are just an idiotic troll so carry on shiptoasting.

Atticus Fynch
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.20 05:59:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Lady Spank
Utterly stupid proposal from an utterly stupid troll.


Dont talk that way about your mother Spanky. Now be a good lad and run along. Leave the discussion up to the grown ups.

Amaurotique
Posted - 2010.05.20 07:06:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Lady Spank
Utterly stupid proposal from an utterly stupid troll.


Dont talk that way about your mother Spanky. Now be a good lad and run along. Leave the discussion up to the grown ups.


Oh look, the troll alt came out to play.

Fine, while we are at it mission runners and 0.0 ratters should be required to do captcha. If you don't believe me, go look around- you'll find plenty of ratting bots.

In fact, you are right. This entire game is full of "cry babies" and macroers. It's decided: we'll captcha EVERYTHING in the game just to be sure that every player is not a macroer.

It's only fair, right? :)

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.20 07:36:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Amaurotique
Originally by: Atticus Fynch
Originally by: Lady Spank
Utterly stupid proposal from an utterly stupid troll.


Dont talk that way about your mother Spanky. Now be a good lad and run along. Leave the discussion up to the grown ups.


Oh look, the troll alt came out to play.

Fine, while we are at it mission runners and 0.0 ratters should be required to do captcha. If you don't believe me, go look around- you'll find plenty of ratting bots.

In fact, you are right. This entire game is full of "cry babies" and macroers. It's decided: we'll captcha EVERYTHING in the game just to be sure that every player is not a macroer.

It's only fair, right? :)


what is this obsession with everything being "fair?"

Eve makes use of passwords for various things...why would a little typing during mining be any different?

debbie harrio
Posted - 2010.05.20 08:24:00 - [26]
 


I Ice mine to keep my pos running but I'm extremely inefficient at it cos' I do it when I'm doing other things around the house, sometimes my mack just sits at the ice rock because it has finished and I may be at the shops or something, it may stay there for an hour or so or at least till I come back to the computer and send it to the station to unload.

So If these ridiculous things are employed for miners, they also need to be used for mission runners and ratting also, how many times have you heard about the afk mission runner and the macro ratter.

What is suggested here is something that will totally screw up my inefficient ice mining method, I'm sorry but I do not want to sit at my screen and answer ****** questions while Ice mining, some people have jumped on this bandwagon to try and get cheap kills.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.20 09:27:00 - [27]
 

I'm still with ya, Nooma. :) Although you seem to have engendered an incredible amount of aggro, it would seem. Not sure exactly why, tbh. You're still tanking the room, though; so good on you!

There's many ways to do a CAPTCHA. Recognizing a half-way garbled word, or auditive CAPTCH's perhaps; like the EVE client reading outloud a letter from the alphabet (mixed in with the underlying game-sound) every once in a while, which letter the miner then has to press on his keyboard. I mean, if miners are literally too lazy to lift a finger...

Fact is, any intelligent human challenging system (but which is not too annoying) would make all macro-mining go away overnight. May not be a 100% ideal solution; and it may, God forbid, require a minimal amount of cooperation and effort from the existing, legit mining community. I would think that would be worth it. Clearly others see that differently.

Ganagati
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.05.20 09:58:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
or auditive CAPTCH's perhaps; like the EVE client reading outloud a letter from the alphabet (mixed in with the underlying game-sound) every once in a while, which letter the miner then has to press on his keyboard. I mean, if miners are literally too lazy to lift a finger...


That would also do a great job of getting rid of those pesky deaf people who think they deserve to play this game and mine. Gah, the nerve! /sarcasm

In before "Eve has sound?"

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.20 11:01:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
or auditive CAPTCH's perhaps; like the EVE client reading outloud a letter from the alphabet (mixed in with the underlying game-sound) every once in a while, which letter the miner then has to press on his keyboard. I mean, if miners are literally too lazy to lift a finger...


You are vaguely aware that the letters of the alphabet aren't equal and don't sound equal in the different languages?


CCCP is read SSSR in Cyrillic, C in Italian sound like K in German and so on.

Worst suggestion so far in another bad thread about captcha.



Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.20 11:13:00 - [30]
 

Edited by: Nooma K''Larr on 20/05/2010 11:53:05



Originally by: Ranka Mei
I'm still with ya, Nooma. :) Although you seem to have engendered an incredible amount of aggro, it would seem. Not sure exactly why, tbh. You're still tanking the room, though; so good on you!

There's many ways to do a CAPTCHA. Recognizing a half-way garbled word, or auditive CAPTCH's perhaps; like the EVE client reading outloud a letter from the alphabet (mixed in with the underlying game-sound) every once in a while, which letter the miner then has to press on his keyboard. I mean, if miners are literally too lazy to lift a finger...

Fact is, any intelligent human challenging system (but which is not too annoying) would make all macro-mining go away overnight. May not be a 100% ideal solution; and it may, God forbid, require a minimal amount of cooperation and effort from the existing, legit mining community. I would think that would be worth it. Clearly others see that differently.


Thank you...I appreciate the support.Wink

I suspect that everyone has had bad experiences with captchas. Well here is an example of one that is easy for humans to read, but hard for the bots:

example of animated captcha

It is animated and the letters don't appear on every frame of the gif. Plus the background noise plays hell with bots.

CCP can make a better job of this obviously with some effort, but the principle is the same.

You know, whenever I post about auto-warp-to-zero topics, people jump on me for playing eve AFK. Obviously EVE was not meant to be played that way. But now I'm hearing how it will disrupt everyone's AFK activities if this is implemented.

Again, the idea is simple: you have license to mine X amount from a belt. It may vary from belt to belt. You may make 2 or three station drops before you reach this amount depending on your ship (I'll leave those details up to CCP). When you reach your limit guns turn off and you must renew your mining license by entering a captcha in order to continue mining. Simple.

The disruption will slow down the bot macro miners if not stop them altogether.


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