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HeIIfire11
Posted - 2010.07.29 13:11:00 - [301]
 

Originally by: Panlean Vice
I've been playing this game approximately six years - the majority of that is all in low sec or null. I won't bother answering the questions much, no one really gives a damn. The question that needs to be answered here is this:

Who do you want to improve Low sec for? The current inhabitants or the carebear community in highsec? If your answer is for the carebears then just improve the wealth in high sec mission running and leave this idiotic matter alone. Low sec is for pvp - and that's the way it should stay. Don't let CSM fools (yes most of you are) ruin the last area where decent pvp is to be had by allowing carebears to play low sec with "more security" so that they can continue their wow-like activities without a care in the world.

If you want to improve low sec for those currently living there (and to be honest - I think that's exactly WHO you should be asking) then make another thread.



This is gerbage...when i look at the map,around 70-80% of all players online..are in high sec.So if i were a part of that 20-30% in low..id say the same.Your making a killing im sure..protected by the kill board freaks at the entry gates.

Give us capital power to break through...change missions so we dont have to fit these ******ed fits to do them...and most of all...a counter measure to scanning because everything in eve has a counter measure.And i dont mean fitting only mods on your ship that reduce sig radius to be undetected.

Just my 2 iskWink

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.29 14:21:00 - [302]
 

You know that people are using unprobable Tengus to mission in low-sec right now, right?

Pro-tip: Halo implants. ECCM. Sensor Strength subsystem. Mission away, enjoying the spectacle of dozens of scan probes within 1 AU and the futile rage of the local pirates.

Takseen
Posted - 2010.07.29 15:16:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
You know that people are using unprobable Tengus to mission in low-sec right now, right?

Pro-tip: Halo implants. ECCM. Sensor Strength subsystem. Mission away, enjoying the spectacle of dozens of scan probes within 1 AU and the futile rage of the local pirates.


Hmm. Granted I can't afford a half billion ISK(?) ship right now, but are there any other cheaper ships that can be made somewhat unprobeable? As in the full skills+implants covert ops can find me, but the 2 weeks of training scouting alt can't.

Although given that I'm currently relying on drones for 75% of my dps, it wouldn't work anyway.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.07.29 16:50:00 - [304]
 

Yeah I'm not saying it's cheap or easy to skill for, but then being able to make ISK in dangerous space usually isn't. But I'm told (no personal experience here) that it's extremely effective.

The small sig really helps tank NPCs btw.

I'm no expert on T3s, but I threw this together on EFT. It should clear L4s at least as fast as a CNR, (much faster for the mainly small/medium rat misions) and it's essentially unprobable.

[Tengu, anomfarmer]
Gravimetric Backup Array II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Conjunctive Gravimetric ECCM Scanning Array I
Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field
Domination 10MN Afterburner
Gist A-Type Large Shield Booster

Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Imperial Navy Medium Energy Neutralizer

Medium Warhead Flare Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Medium Warhead Rigor Catalyst II

Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay
Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding
Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer
Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix

HG Halo set
Standard X-instinct booster.

Would run you quite a bit of ISK with that setup, but there you go. I'm sure someone will post you a better one if you ask.

Sneaky Rodney
Posted - 2010.07.29 18:12:00 - [305]
 

>>>How long have you been playing?
One and a halg years

>>>Have you ever been in low sec?
yes many times

>>>Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
No

>>>If not, why not?
risk/reward ratio

>>>Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
No

>>>Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
I dont think its as dangerous to just fly through as people think but running a mission in un-secured low sec is not worth it


>>>Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
No

>>>What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )
Make the rewards high enough that the payout is enough to satisfy both the mission runner and some pvp-fitted escourts gaurding him. Also make something drop that is needed for manufacturing but ONLY found in low sec.

>>>Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

If you take my advice above I think this could happen

Aldarica
Spinal Discipline
Posted - 2010.07.29 19:46:00 - [306]
 

How long have you been playing?
- 2.5 years

Have you ever been in low sec?
- very often

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
- none of the above: just exploring (and little bit of PI recently)

If so, what is the appeal for you?
- radars are quickly finished in cheap ships and can drop decent loot

If not, why not?
- missions and complexes take time and requires more expensive ships so they are generally too risky considering rewards

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
- no (mostly)

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
- for some activities yes, otherwise lowsec is dangerous place

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
- no

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there?
- more ISK to be had

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why no?
- yeah I do but some things should be changed before (see my previous answer)


Takseen
Posted - 2010.07.29 21:32:00 - [307]
 

Edited by: Takseen on 29/07/2010 21:32:31
If you look at some of the more popular non pvp activities in lowsec, you can see a few common threads. PI, where you can manage the colonies remotely and only need to dash in now and then to collect your exports. Exploration, where sites are a lot more common, have somewhat better rewards, and can often be finished quickly and in fairly small ships. A lot of people seem to use the NPC stations for research there too, since its much cheaper and the queues are shorter and you just need to do blueprint runs in small fast ships now and then. That should give a fairly good idea about how to make more popular lowsec activities.

Arioch Mournblade
Posted - 2010.07.29 22:46:00 - [308]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
You know that people are using unprobable Tengus to mission in low-sec right now, right?

Pro-tip: Halo implants. ECCM. Sensor Strength subsystem. Mission away, enjoying the spectacle of dozens of scan probes within 1 AU and the futile rage of the local pirates.


Lots of ppl do plexes and not missions in LowSec. And in those cases Pirates don't need to probe for (unprobable) ships. They search for the complex instead - much easier.

d026
temp holding
Posted - 2010.07.30 11:20:00 - [309]
 

How long have you been playing?

Long

Have you ever been in low sec?

I grinded my first CNR with a high quality lvl4 agent in a 0.3 system. But that was years ago.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

I did. And if i didnt had 0.0 acces i probably would again.

If so, what is the appeal for you?

I would probably run LvL 5's, also lowsec has just a better isk/h ratio:)

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Depends on what you fly;) If you are smart and use a TII fit Raven + Logi support rewards is in line with the risk. If you fly your 5bil Marauder.. risk might be to high:)

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

No. low sec is extremely risky. for example you dont have all he intel channels like in a 0.0 aliance.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

No, people are generaly to risk averse.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)

Probably not being scannable once you are on the mission grid.. or make probing as hard and timeconsuming as it was couple of years ago.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

NO because pirates are the carebears worst enemy:)

Dabljuh
Posted - 2010.07.30 13:56:00 - [310]
 

How long have you been playing?
About 5 years with interruptions, working out to less than 2 years of actual subscription time

Have you ever been in low sec?
Many times. I have lived in 0.0 but spent most of my time in high sec.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
I ran some FW missions. Intend to do so again. I laugh at the notion of running regular L4 missions in low sec.

If so, what is the appeal for you?
FW missions can usually be blitzed and performed in a small, fast craft.

If not, why not?
A mission fit battleship is the second worst thing you can take into low sec. The worst thing probably being a fully loaded jump freighter.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
Generally no.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
No. Low sec is gank-city, it's grief-town. There's no reason to go into low sec if you don't want to shoot at someone. 0.0 provides for facilities that allow an alliance to effectively defend their territory against all but the mightiest of intruders. Low sec is by comparison a griefer's haven. If you do not want to risk getting caught, you won't be, making any crime/punishment or bounty hunting effectively impossible. In low sec, the deck is stacked in favor of griefers. Being proactive about attacking known griefers with middling sec means you'll lose sec instead.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
No. Aggro timers and sentry behavior can be a big hurdle for newer players. But knowing them inside out only means the "carebears" know much better how the deck is stacked against them. Ergo: More education would keep more players out of low sec rather than the opposite.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)
Turn it either into high sec or into null sec. Low sec as it is right now is just a griefer's haven, which means non-griefers have no business being there.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?
No. "Pirates" have a dilemma because they want to be ebil pies and go shoot people, and then wonder why people avoid being shot at. "Pirates" don't want more people operating in low sec, what they want is more easy targets to grief. And they're too cowardly to move to null sec, attack some alliance there and take their stuff. They're too cowardly to fight in an environment where the law and the enforced game mechanics don't actually protect them like they do in low sec.

Dakhath Ebonheart
Posted - 2010.07.30 16:06:00 - [311]
 

I've been playing several years. I have spent some time in low-sec.

Missions/complexes take PVE ships. In lowsec you will almost always engage in PVP, whether you want to or not. Ships with PVE fits normally suck at PVP. Why would anyone take a PVE ship out of the safety of High sec? I personally wouldn't dream of taking my faction/ds fit CNR anywhere that I might have to PVP. The same way I dont take my blaster/buffer tanked Mega on lvl 4 missions. PVE and PVP are 2 completely different things in this game.

Only way I would personnaly ever consider doing missions in lowsec is if the rewards were far greater. Make lvl-4s in low sec have the rewards that lvl-5s do now, and I might consider it. Much less and there is no reason to go through lowsec exept when passing between 0.0 and high sec.

Kramberger
BALKAN EXPRESS
B A L E X
Posted - 2010.08.24 21:37:00 - [312]
 

quote:
"Most of the solutions tend to come from a pirate perspective, since they make up so much of the low sec population. Obviously pirates want more people there because that would result in more profit opportunities for them. "
:end quote

As an 5year player and an outlaw i find such statement insulting, ill advised and it clearly shows that you, or whoever actally put this together does not have a clue about what low sec is..

Only true pirating in eve is hi sec ganking, and allthough it is the bottom of the slime and dishonour, ccp finds it amusing and still pays off insurance to cover concord inflicted losses... THAT is shame, and a big black stain of puke on this game.

We do gate camping, we do kill noobs, we do blob an 'innocent mission runners' but all of this is in hope of a provoking a larger scale fight.. cause lowsec fighting is a completely diffrent philosophy and strategy than 00 conflicts... it is two completely different religions....

And out of the 40000 online pilots, for those 20000 that live peacefuly and have theyre zen times in hi sec i suggest some other non-violent games that are also free of charge...

We finance our fleets from missions, plexes, mining just as hi sec guys... Living on a 'opportunistic profit' is not posible and does not exisit...

P.S.
why do every single carebear has to mantion theire 'FACTION FITTED XXBIL WORTH CNR??'

I pvp in a faction, and plex fitted navy ships with a 2 bill implants in my head... so i invite you all to come and meet me

best regards
Kramb o7


Chesty McJubblies
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.08.24 22:12:00 - [313]
 

Originally by: Kramberger
quote:
"Most of the solutions tend to come from a pirate perspective, since they make up so much of the low sec population. Obviously pirates want more people there because that would result in more profit opportunities for them. "
:end quote

As an 5year player and an outlaw i find such statement insulting, ill advised and it clearly shows that you, or whoever actally put this together does not have a clue about what low sec is..

Only true pirating in eve is hi sec ganking, and allthough it is the bottom of the slime and dishonour, ccp finds it amusing and still pays off insurance to cover concord inflicted losses... THAT is shame, and a big black stain of puke on this game.

We do gate camping, we do kill noobs, we do blob an 'innocent mission runners' but all of this is in hope of a provoking a larger scale fight.. cause lowsec fighting is a completely diffrent philosophy and strategy than 00 conflicts... it is two completely different religions....

And out of the 40000 online pilots, for those 20000 that live peacefuly and have theyre zen times in hi sec i suggest some other non-violent games that are also free of charge...

We finance our fleets from missions, plexes, mining just as hi sec guys... Living on a 'opportunistic profit' is not posible and does not exisit...

P.S.
why do every single carebear has to mantion theire 'FACTION FITTED XXBIL WORTH CNR??'

I pvp in a faction, and plex fitted navy ships with a 2 bill implants in my head... so i invite you all to come and meet me

best regards
Kramb o7




k

Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2010.08.24 22:25:00 - [314]
 

How long have you been playing?
- 2 years ish

Have you ever been in low sec?
- yes, but not regularly, and not busy systems.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
- courier missions only

If so, what is the appeal for you?
If not, why not?
- 1 failed mission requires 17 successful ones to replenish the faction standing loss suffered. A lot of the people I've seen shoot for the lulz, and are quite happy to take the sec hit, as there's no consequences for any isk earning alts.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
- not likely- if you lose 1 in 20 ships (replace these numbers with your preferred ratios), then the extra pay for those 19 missions has to cover the loss to be viable when compared to the Hisec loss ratio. This doesn't account for the fact that you'll not likely make the time bonus in such a case, nor does it take into accooutn the standing loss if your mission site gets camped.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
- for travel, yes. can't really comment on missioning.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
- I doubt it

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )
- remove killmails completely.
other changes: remove the requirement for a "PVE" fit. make missions require omnitank, and make NPCs EWAR work normally. Also reduce numbers of rats, but make them individually stronger to make using EWAR ships more viable. This should help to reduce the PVE/PVP difference, as would making missions MWD-able


Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?
- didn't think so, but I read someone else's post (can't find it now) regarding protection contracts that I think might work: player A sets up contract with collateral to not have ship destroyed in system X while under protection of corp B in return for an escrowed payment once the time elapses/A leaves system/whatever. Details/balance would be hell to figure out, especially avoiding ability to exploit.



I appreciate that you're actually asking, rather than assuming that you know the answers, so Thanks!

Asuze
Posted - 2010.08.25 00:35:00 - [315]
 

Hello and thanks for bringing this stuff up, too bad too many trolls here for any constructive discussion. Anyway,

How long have you been playing?
- Over 1 year

Have you ever been in low sec?
- Yes, around 0.3 to 0.1, never went to 0.0 due to ridiculous amount of gatecamps

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
- No. No way in hell I will in my right mind risk my nice and comfortable 3+ billion PvE boat trying to mission.
Maybe will try some plexes in some cheap cloaky boat, havent come around to it yet timewise and skillwise.

If so, what is the appeal for you?
- Missions is a strict no. Maybe cloaky ratting for rare drops and stuff...

If not, why not?
- As I already said - No way in hell I will in my right mind risk my 3+ billion PvE boat trying to mission in lowsec.
And bringing help/guards wouldnt matter, they will just bring more.
And trying to mission using cloaky jumps/cover is a direct hit on missioner ISK+LP/hour.
And YES you will get scanned down, popped and podded.


Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
- Not even close.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
- Everytime I went in lowsec I returned either into my clone or in my pod. It is not overstated.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
- I know how to mitigate risks there. And I still get popped by 10+ people in random spots. Not having cloak in lowsec = kaboom.
Considering this, why would people even want to get acquainted with how to work in lowsec, when they can perfectly mission in highsec....

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )
- For start, change useless faction blobs into more useful domain border guards?
So instead of stupid roaming around in blobs they would guard some borders at 0.1-0.0 space, giving missionrunners more air to breathe in systems with 0.4 security and less.
- And give much much beter rewards for missions in lowsec. Ratting is fine as it is. Missions are nowhere even close in reward sense.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?
- Why you trying to do something the good old Lord already done ways ago? Couguars and gazelles co-exist just fine.

Winterjack
Posted - 2010.08.25 08:06:00 - [316]
 

How long have you been playing?

- About 9 months.

Have you ever been in low sec?

- Yeah, not very often.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

- Not if I can avoid it.

If not, why not?

- I can mission in hisec and if I'm not stupid my risk is very very close to zero, for a reward that can be about 20millions per mission (yeah I know, even more). I can use a faction fit T3 ship to mission in hisec and complete said 20million mission in half an hour. In losec I'd need to use a ship that is fit differently and less efficient for PvE, and the reward will go down noticeably, even without considering the risk.
I go to losec to roam and get blasted to smithereens in a pvp frig. Pirates there are too hungry for killmails to do anything else.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

- No. But I think you can't have hi-enough rewards for pve activities in losec. The current state of the game means that if I wanted to PvE in losec I'd be jumped in a matter of seconds, once jumped I could not run (pve fits don't have MWDs, don't have WCS), and so I'd die. :) when the chance to collect the reward is so low, there's hardly an amount of money that gets you enticed.
(Yeah, I know how to watch local and d-scanner and do pve in lo-pop areas and so on)

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

- For traveling, yes. For plexing, if you're fast and keep your wits about yourself, depends on the area... For missioning or mining or what have you, it's not.

- Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
It might. I doubt people would ever do PvE in a PvP rich environment. Having to face a PvP ship of your class on top of all the NPCs you aggroed is not my idea of fun.

- What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)
Hard to say. Making it safer would just make it become another pocket of hi-sec, so there's no point. I'm against this anyway.
Reduce risk as in "reduce the impact of dieing" would help - insurance is nice, but it doesn't really cover costs of a new ship and once your mission site has
been scanned, you're done for. Doing away with FACTION standings penalty (keep corp and agent) for failing a mission would help, and increasing rewards would help as well.
Still, if it takes 3-5 minutes to scan my missioning site and I need to stay there 20 minutes to complete the mission, there's pretty little point.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

- Yea I think it can be done. But this would require a lot of reassessments. Reduce hisec mission rewards and increase losec; change the missioning as someone has said (less NPCs, but stronger, make them closer to PvP so the fitting difference is lessened); remove faction standings loss (keep agent and corp) for failing; Then, the carebear pop would increase - this would make it more likely than you can do what you came to do without being ganked, and so the risk reduces, the rewards increase.

TL;DR:
I think it's best to reduce the risk COST rather than the risk PERCENTAGE: as in, it's ok to die once every week if you make enough money to buy one and a half in that week. It's not ok to die once every week if you make enough money to replace the hull and not the fitting.
Let the players reduce the chance to be ganked, and limit the action to reduce the impact of being killed. My opinion.

SwissChris1
Playboy Delivery Service
S E D I T I O N
Posted - 2010.08.25 08:42:00 - [317]
 

Originally by: Mynxee

How long have you been playing?

Have you ever been in low sec?

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

If so, what is the appeal for you?

If not, why not?

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?



1. 2 years
2. Yes
3. Always. It adds a little spice to boring pve - I wish my agents would send me there more often
4. As stated above, it makes things a lot more interesting i.e. you have to pay attention/stay alert and you cannot just afk pve
5. N/A
6. I think the rewards could be much better, especially in lowsec space that has many people in local or if pod killing has occured recently (higher risk, higher reward?)
7. Yes it is over-stated, if you pay attention and align to safespot/gate/station nothing can happen to you imo (almost). Most of lowsec is uninhabited anyway...

I would like to see higher isk & lp awards for running missions in lowsec...give the users a real need or at least an initiative to go there.

Wolfcheck
The Ice Cartel
Posted - 2010.08.27 13:03:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: Nyar La'thotep
The Sleeper-AI addition to NPCs?
Increase # of MUCH shorter routes through Low-Sec (might have to remove some of the short-ish routes through High-Sec), especially between the 4 Empires (maybe even regions within an Empire)? I'm talking saving at least 5 jumps minimum, more like 8-10.
More routes through Low-Sec = more options for travel = lower % of gates camped 23/7/365
my 0.02 ISK


I like these. Wouldn't require losec between regions, but having routes that are much shorter between empires, definitely. Risk/reward.

Captain Lupus
Posted - 2010.08.27 13:39:00 - [319]
 

Edited by: Captain Lupus on 27/08/2010 14:13:15

How long have you been playing?
6-7 Months

Have you ever been in low sec?
a few times

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
Never Ever! YOU WILL DIE!

If so, what is the appeal for you?
None. YOU WILL DIE!

If not, why not?
I´m not crazy enough to risk a 900M Ship for lousy rewards. YOU WILL DIE!

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
NEVER EVER! YOU WILL DIE!

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
No YOU SURELY DIE!

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
in my Opinion... NO YOU WILL DIE!


What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic.)
There IS none because as "casual" Player you won´t be risking your faction fitted T2 ship in hostile Space. Simple as that. YOU WILL DIE!

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?
No! Why? Hungry Pirates! Simple as that. YARRRR!!

There will be no way of Co-Existence. Would you stuff your beloved Cat in Cage full of Lions and say: Okay... Live long and prosper Kitty Cat! Razz

Low Sec should have been "Special" from the beginning. Just big Corps should have had the possibility to enter 0.0 Space.
Nowdays it´s just the playfield for bored pirate corps or Corps with insane amounts of Cash and Sov....

As casual Player in a decent corp with no ambition in SOV... you´re screwed.
Sometimes we build a litte T1 Fleet for ratting in 0.0 ... well ...in the end. YOU WILL DIE! Laughing

Iece Quaan
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.08.27 15:38:00 - [320]
 

The main problem with low sec is that there's no downside to low sec rating. Pirates who sport low sec ratings simply supply themselves from within lowsec, or use alts to transport goods.

Low sec is a place where smaller player organizations can jockey for power and influence, without becoming part of the relatively large and monolithic organizations of 0.0. I think that monkeying around with that mechanic would be dangerous; it's a valid playstyle for those who want to feel like they always need to watch their backs and anything can happen. That said, the current system heavily favors the ganker over gankee with regard to PVE activities.

Since lowsec is already largely a player driven environment ( with respect to security/CONCORD mechanics ) I don't favor bandaid/game mechanical solutions that lessen the ability of players to choose their own actions.

Couple things:

Revamp Sec rating. This needs to be much more in depth; currently it is too easy to manipulate. The system should track 'unlawful' kills in a manner similar to it does now; but killing NPC pirates shouldn't be an easy way to fix it with no record of former activity. You should have to work for CONCORD ( missions ) to get out of the hole entirely. And there should still be some record of your crimes, even if it no longer directly affects you ( ie you 'reform' ). We need to know how many of these 5.0 players in lowsec are ex-cons :P The mechanic should block players attempting to maintain ganker status by playing nice with the cops. Maybe make sec loss exponential to the ( tracked separately ) amount of unlawful kills you log.

Sec rating, continued: It would be interesting to investigate the possibility of negative sec 'leaking' somehow to players that have interactions with low sec characters, through sales or contracts, or even by sharing a corp/alliance with people that have negative sec. Lots of problems there, but interesting to think about. Pirate players don't currently have to band together to resupply ( us against the world! ) because it is too easy to do so through alt accounts.

Introduce a CONCORD factional warfare system. Anyone in the FW corp can attack anyone with a low sec rating in a similar manner to NPC CONCORD drones. CONCORD FW players and corporations have to maintain a high average sec rating to remain within CONCORD FW umbrella, similar to POS anchoring requirements. This gives players an easy means to police themselves without also incurring a low sec rating. No other restrictions on CONCORD FW activity. Let the frontier cops be as brutal as their prey :P Extend negative sec ratings to low-sec players' structures in space ( pos, cans, anything ). Yep, the cops can raid your POS with no warning if you have one. CONCORD FW get delayed reports in the form of corp mail about unlawful ship kills. ( The insurance company knows instantly :P )

Increase the isk yield of low sec asteroid belts. Increase the yield of lowsec grav sites and maybe include 0.0 ores. Increase the size of asteroid belts, making them like ice belts with the default warp-in point 200km away from the other end of the belt ( or even have the belt stretch far enough to fall off grid ) giving more reaction time for the belt miner to exploit. The dedicated belt hunter could still bm points around the belt to warp to directly..

Aforementioned changes to lowsec missions, making them not require a pimp pve bs, are good. I DON'T favor unprobable mission sites.

Improving the moons and PI resources couldn't hurt either.

Sleeper AI on rats could also work.


tl;dr Increase isk yields for all activity. Give players more tools to police each other. Don't remove the ability for small factions in low sec to compete with each other. Instead, improve their ability to maneuver.

Saul Caris
Posted - 2010.08.27 15:42:00 - [321]
 

Edited by: Saul Caris on 27/08/2010 15:47:02
How long have you been playing?

Just over a month I think.

Have you ever been in low sec?

Once - a single jump between hisec systems to grab an accidental distance-purchase. I'd done a few null-roams in small groups and thought what the hell, it's only one jump. Big mistake, lost 50 mil of Drake & fittings, took about a week to replace at that early stage.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

Hell no.

If so, what is the appeal for you?

N/A

If not, why not?

Same as everyone else - instadeath. Gatecamps are everywhere and there's no escape in a PVE fit ship.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

No idea, never even looked. I doubt the rewards are worth the almost certain loss of an expensively fitted ship, and even if they were, I doubt I'd venture to low with the current gate-camp-griefing guarantee.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

Hahaha. NO. Massive grief-fest. As a new player, it's more off putting than null, especially solo.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

I've seen some very good videos on surviving in low-sec that make a lot of sense: always align, watch your d-scan etc. All these techniques are useless however, if you never make it past the system-gate because of the inevitable camp. So I'd say no.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )

Hisec gate security on lowsec gates. Gatecamps in null are a different story, usually alliance etc, so you know not to go there in a group with a decent FC. Lowsec gatecamps are usually griefers just in it for easy ganks. I'm sure that'll annoy some higer minded pirates, but it's the truth, in my experience at least.


Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

Best idea so far is the protection money system, or higher security on lowsec gates. Protection money would require organised pirate gangs, who may or may not oust the small group griefers if it were implemented (you'd hope so). Higher gate security would prevent gatecamps, with concord responses (or lack of) in system remaining the same.

Either way you have to lose the gatecamps. That is the single most important thing. Lowsec missions designed more for smaller faster (PVP basically) ships would help, but with the grief-gate-camps still present there's no point. No amount of reward is enough to make me go to a place where I'm virtually guaranteed to lose an expensive PVE ship the second I uncloak off the gate. I'm well up for pvp, when I get my skills up, and nullsec roams are fun - but right now lowsec is between both worlds, and consequently ends up sharing the worst of both.

K'uata Sayus
Posted - 2010.08.27 17:15:00 - [322]
 

# How long have you been playing?
3 Years.

# Have you ever been in low sec?
Yes.

# Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
Missions, no. Complexes, no. Radar, Mag sites yes.

# If so, what is the appeal for you?
-You can be quick and get in and out of exploration sites without too much grief.

# If not, why not?
C'mon. PvE fits vs NPC aggro plus PvP fitted player pirate aggro. Its as if the mission agents haven't got a clue that other players are just waiting to gank you. Oh, wait, they don't even realize they exist, do they??

# Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
that's real obvious-not even close, or else there wouldn't be any concern that players aren't going to lo-sec.

# Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
No. We've all lost ships as noobs in lo-sec before we got smart. We know the dangers.

# Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
Hardly. You have to concentrate on the mission all the while looking over your shoulder, knowing you can't defend yourself with a PvE fit. And if you get screwed by player rats and have to warp out of the mission then you take a big hit from your agent.

# What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )
Quintuple the rewards, simple enough.


# Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?
The key word is "profitably". Make the rewards from missions and minable ore obscene and I see both sides thriving. That's the way pirates and those who took the risk to get great riches did it on old Earth. In Eve, lo-sec just isn't that profitable, why is that so difficult to understand CCP?.


Quintus Nolo
Posted - 2010.08.27 17:30:00 - [323]
 

Edited by: Quintus Nolo on 27/08/2010 17:30:30
How long have you been playing?
3 years

Have you ever been in low sec?
Many times

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
I have run a few complexes in low sec.

If so, what is the appeal for you?
Actually being able to find a quiet place for a few minutes and get the loot from the 4/10-6/10 plexes.

If not, why not?
Missions ships with viable DPS are too easily scanned out.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
Yes when it comes to plexes, no when it comes to mission running or mining.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
Not really over-stated; it is very overwhelming when the best spots are normally the places that PvP happens or camps exist.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
No education is not the issue, protection is.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )
A revamp of CONCORD intervention in low sec; we have 4 basic security systems in .4, .3, .2, & .1. I would like to see a more Advanced AI for gate guns/CONCORD ships in .4 systems than in .3 systems etc. having it scaling accordingly. The AI would then shoot at players with negative sec status – any time they are at the gate. Low security status players lost their right to “sit” on a “public” gate when they went negative (Keep the sec status system the same, and make fairly easy to gain the status back) and should not be allowed to sit on the gates and camp them in .4-.2 security systems. Only .1 should have minimal/no gate guns where pirates could sit all day without getting fired on by the authorities.

Along with the above idea, there needs to be a revamp of CONDORD responding to engagements. A large part of the danger is in going solo and having a blob scan you down and attack you. What would happen if a less dangerous version of a CONCORD ship showed up to give assistance to the “target”? This may not give frigate/cruiser class ships a living chance, but it would be a big boon for BS sized ships. It is the BS size ships that are in more danger of being caught, with their low mobility and align time. By less dangerous for CONCORD, I mean a ship that could be tanked by aggressors, but would respond anywhere in low sec. Make them Ewar brutes, but with low DPS. Giving the “target” a chance to get away, or at least fight on a more even playing field. This would not affect FW fights, or wars in any way, as CONCORD currently doesn’t respond to those engagements anyways.

The last thing I have as a suggestion is to make warp disruptors not work in low sec. Warp scramblers and HIC/scripts would still be able to work in low sec, and here is the thought process behind this. Scramblers are short range, but have a -2 to warp strength. A potential “target” has more chance in a non-cloaked ship to get away from a scrambler than a disruptor, if their distance separating them is greater than 10km on average. (I recognize the distance can be longer). It frees up a missioning ship from having to use a low slot for a warp core stabilizer to get away from a camp with disruptors (range) and fit more damage or tank for the mission.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?
Yes I believe it is possible, but more than anything you have to give the “carebear” the appearance of safety in low sec, without actually providing too much of a safety net like in high sec.

Daergaar
Caldari
Posted - 2010.08.27 17:36:00 - [324]
 

How long have you been playing?
A little over two years.

Have you ever been in low sec?
Yes.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
Sometimes, but rarely.

If so, what is the appeal for you?
Running low level missions, not for the mission's sake, but to bait pirates. Cloaked gangs are awesome. It's a trap!!

If not, why not?
I won't run actual L4 missions in low sec *SOLELY* because of gate camps.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
Depends. The pvp is worth it, but if you're there only for PvE, no. Gate camps are way too prevalent.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
Absolutely not. You WILL lose ships there.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
Probably not. You need to know how to PvP if you're in low sec.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)
Increase the strength of sentry guns. Most PvE ships are well tanked, so if we could survive in a PvE fit ship until the guns scared off the gate camp, that would be fine by me. Either that, or add Concorde neut towers/missile batteries/jamming towers around the gates.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?
Yes, because people in low sec KNOW there's a high risk of PvP. Some like me welcome it. I just don't like gate camps. Being popped at a gate by a huge gang isn't fun. Scouting gates with alts isn't fun. If gates were relatively safe spaces, I could care less how dangerous the rest of low-sec is.


Jastra
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.27 19:55:00 - [325]
 

How long have you been playing?

About 5 years with some breaks

Have you ever been in low sec?

Often, lived in lowsec placid for about half my time in game, until the scanning changes

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?


Used to, don't bother these days

If so, what is the appeal for you?



If not, why not?

Accepting the point about Tengu, because taking even a moderately expensive BS into lowsec when I can be scanned out rather quickly doesnt equate, for me personally, to good risk/reward, I would rahter do more missions but in a safer environment to balance reward, it;s not as if the missions are better, they are the same just with better rewards, better/ineresting rewards or missions might persuade me

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

Exploration can be ok, and ratting is ok, if you can find some decent quiet systems, mining and missions for me personally are not worth it, though I have ninja mined in a cruiser a very long time ago :)

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

probably not, it;s not instnt death or anything but it demands a lot more savvy and skill than high sec, obviously, I liked the added risk when I lived there, and maybe once lost a ship at a gate, but it was ok, scanning changes whilst correct from a game perspetive, did cause me to leave, but thats was a risk/reward thing rather than an enjoyment thing per se.


Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

That time would probably be better spent in preping peeps for 0.0

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. Smile)

Maybe more "tengu-like" items to rebalance my ability to avoid being scanned down vs the relative ease of scanning me out. More exploration sites, maybe just stick all static content into exploration sites so work is required to both get reward but also to catch anyone


Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

Is there actually still profit in lowsec piracy ? - I suppose there must be but progressive changes have reduced both carebear and PVP population in my view. I would have thought some out of the box thinking is required, to create something wholly new which makes lowsec as different from high sec as 0.0 is, something unique to get you in there, misions arent it.

Brannor McThife
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.08.28 07:04:00 - [326]
 

I've played since 2005, but took a break for 2 years.

Two days ago I had an exploration escalation take me 4 jumps down into a main low-sec thoroughfaire. I fitted my Tengu with covert ops, and large omni tank. I ran in right before and after downtime.

While doing the escalation that should take me 10 minutes in gank mode (takes twice as long in covert mode - less dps), I had an Arazu, 2 Rapiers, a Helios, and Heron, all sit in system, and watch (from the safety of a safespot cloaked) multiple combat probes be dropped.

Then when heading out of lowsec, I had to run a gatecamp...

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll only do 1-jump lowsec escalations now. Not worth taking my 1.5 bil Tengu and +5 implant clone into that kind of environment just for the chance at some loot (which I didn't get).

-G

Elena Vherokia
Silent Service Limited
Posted - 2010.08.28 08:12:00 - [327]
 

Originally by: Rutilus

Another idea is to make the reward worth the risk. While I don't expect to get a 100M bonus or anything, extra LP or high-value items would make me more inclined to get into low-sec for missioning.



Best idea imho

Vernn Miller
Caldari
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.08.28 08:15:00 - [328]
 

# How long have you been playing?
Almost a year and a half.

# Have you ever been in low sec?
Yes plenty of times. Got killed and killed players in low sec.

# Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?
Used to when I was a newbie.

# If so, what is the appeal for you?
Used it to learn to stay alive by getting used to using the DS and evading hostiles while doing pve. Now I don`t think much of it.

# If not, why not?
For pvp I like null sec style pvp better but scanning down a mission runner or a barge in a hidden belt is fun from time to time. Moving from pvp to pve the ISK vs risk is not worth it imo.

# Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?
NO.

# Is the risk in low sec over-stated?
Depends if yer a tool or not.

# Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?
Most likely no. Some people just want to be safe and not worry about getting their ships violenced.

# What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic. )
Really dunno tbh. If we would have a change in the ISK vs risk and more people would be running missions in low sec then more pirates would hang around those ISK making spots and just keep escalating. More mission runners, more targets, more pirates and after a while people would go back to high sec to be able to afk their missions and be "safe".

# Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?
No. Carebears will say **** this I`m going back to high sec and pirates will be left without targets.

jerrard iceni
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2010.08.28 10:05:00 - [329]
 


How long have you been playing?

4 maybe 5 years, cant remember but its been a long time.

Have you ever been in low sec?

Yes. Ive spent nearly my whole eve life in either low sec or 0.0 as either a pvper, pirate or carebear. All my isk making alts are in low sec.

Do you run missions or complexes in low sec?

missions rarely, complexes/exploration fairly often as well as ratting.

If so, what is the appeal for you?

The lack of competion - theres plenty of empty low sec systems out there.

Are rewards in low sec in line with the risk?

No. Gate camps on the main high sec/low sec through ways and an increase in the number of people able to probe/easier use of probes can make it quite hazardous especailly when you can get much higher rewards for nearly no risk in high sec.

Is the risk in low sec over-stated?

Yes and no. The most dangerous part of low sec i find is gate jumping through the high sec/low sec throughways where gate camps can be quite prevelant - but with the right intel and ship fittings these can normally be run. Once passed the gate camps low sec isnt as bad as made out i find though i rarley run missions.

Would education from savvy players about how to mitigate risk in low sec encourage folks who didn't just want to AFK L4's to operate there?

Maybe. i know back when the level 5 complexs where in low sec there where plenty of dedicated low sec carebear/pve corps that used to be quite decent sizes with plenty of peeps you could learn from - plus they often had capable pvpers themselves.

What is the number one change to low sec that would cause you to considering doing missions and complexes there? (Be realistic! "Kick the pirates out!" is humorous but not realistic)

Putting level 5 complexs back in low sec as well as possibley looking at the probing system. theres some good ideas in this thread.

Do you believe it is possible to make low sec changes that would allow both pirates and carebears to co-exist profitably without crippling either's play style to extinction? Why or why not?

I hope so though it might take some time.


uredo
Posted - 2010.08.28 16:16:00 - [330]
 

Edited by: uredo on 28/08/2010 16:21:54
Great topic. I'm in favour of something big.

I read a thread a while ago (edit: found it) suggesting that each of the four empires should separated by low-sec space. Price differentials between these regions would naturally evolve, this would cause trade through low-sec to be very lucrative. Trade accross the regions would give pirates targets. And no-one would be forced to cross the borders, so carebears should be happy.

This could be fit together with some storyline events, which everyone likes

I also like the idea of purchaseable protection from pirates, such that you pay them for a 'protection contract', then they can't attack you for the period of the contract. This would encourage pirates to patrol their section of the border.

Finally the introduction of some unique resource to lowsec would help. T2 resources are 0.0 only, T3 are WH only, create one for low sec and the problem is solved.


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