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Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 07:50:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 13/05/2010 11:27:41
new guide here

All you need to start with is one skill at level 1, and about 1-2 million in cash that you can spend.(you probably will not spend all of it but its nice to have a bit of a reserve just in case)

currently, apart from the basic processor you will spend;

150k for extractors CPU/Power 100-800
225k for processors CPU/Power 100-800
600k for storage CPU/Power 300-600
450k Advanced Processors CPU/Power 300-600
900k High Tec Processors CPU/Power 900-400

plus the cost of the Basic Command Center

By the way the stats on that are fairly straightforward

Basic 50m3 1007/5372/(the last is the CPU-Power available

you also need the following skill at level 1

Remote Sensing Rank 1 I/m (basically has no prerequisite skill, req. skill of Sci. 3) The ability to gather and analyze remote sensing data from satellites in orbit around a planet and to produce proper calibrated surveys.
Level 1: allows scans within 1 light year (not AU or jumps)
Level 2: allows scans within 3 ""
Level 3: allows scans within 5 ""
Level 4: allows scans within 7 ""
Level 5: allows scans within 9 ""

(note, some functions can be done in a station if your in range, some require you to be undocked)

After you get the skill trained to level 1, all you need is a Basic Command center of the exact same type as the planet you plan to mine.(I'm Using Storm Basic Command center to go after Oxygen in this example)

Then head out, select a planet of that type that's in the system your in. Then Select the Circle with the Up Arrow that is the planet view (note that I am at a star gate in this system) to view the planet in “planet mode”

In Planet View, Select Scan. Look over the items that are available on that planet, select 1 (in this case noble gases) to trigger the scan to find the hot spots if your interested in that world.

Note that you probably will need to use the adjustment under the scan button to better locate the "hotspots" for that resource, just slide the scale to the right or left until you get the hang of it.

Now, since you are using the Basic Command Center, place your command center on the planet, fairly close to where you plan to do your extracting. Then click Submit.

You then want to select 1 Basic processor and place it fairly close to your Command Center, (I usually place it at a right angle to where the resource is that I plan to extract so its out of the way for now) Left click on the Processor, select create link, then select the Command center to create a link to the processor
Then a Resource Extractor to match the resource your extracting and place it on the hottest part of the hotspot. you will want to do a dummy scan to get an idea as to how “hot” the spot is so you know how many extractors you need per processor,

And always, when your laying out your network, always create links between all of the units. that you intend to link together (in this case the Command Center and the Processor

Hit submit when you have a grouping set up and ready to go. (note: the system WILL NOT allow you to put down anything that will exceed the capacity of your Command center to power of provide CPU support)

Now select one extractor you have set up and scan for resources. when you get the result back stop for a second.

Look over the scan results, from top to bottom they are organized by the duration of the extraction,
(currently from 30 min to just under 3 days).

This is where things get complicated.

the Basic processor can take in exactly 3000 units (1500 units per 15 min Extraction cycle)currently, and can hold 3000 units total before the next processor cycle before it stops accepting new raw material.




Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 07:56:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 13/05/2010 07:48:21

Your command center can hold 500m3 of material, if your going to set up your planet to pull on the 24 hour or ~3 day cycle you probably don't have a problem, and can safely dump the materials into there for temporary holding.

However if you plan to run the shorter cycles and let the processor catch up later you *may* need a bit more storage than that.

with just the Basic CC, that means you need to build a storage silo, or have your processors set up and ready to "Catch" whatever the Extractor throws at them way before you send it.

However I don't recommend that for reasons that I will explain later.


From there is really simple math, you know roughly how many Extractors you can feed into one processor, and can work out how many processors you need as you lay out the extractors

I recommend that you set things up so that Extractors feed to some kind of storage and not directly to a processor for reasons I will explain later.

That said, Storage facilities, Spaceports, and even the Command Center can be used as storage for mats. for now just use the Command centers storage as a buffer, you should be ok for now unless you insist on running things at the 30 min clip with just one processor

By the way a "pin" is any Extractor, Storage, Processor, Spaceport, or the Command Center that you "pin" to a planet. I'm pointing that out now because him about to start using that term a lot.

Go ahead and set up roughly as many Extractors and processors as you think will feed the network of processors you are setting up, you can check with each one but don't hit submit until your fairly sure you have all the Extractors and processors you need set up and linked.

Once you have set up a network of extractors, you can now go through and scan at all of them for resources, select based on what you expect to do, (Do not set routes yet!) and once you have scanned all the Extractors Hit Submit, that will turn on all of the extractors at once.

now you have to route all of the output of the extractors to a storage,

From any given extractor, you can run a route THROUGH about 5 different "PINs" to a final destination (you can not go through more than 5 pins, the rout will not take), its where the rout ends that determines if a connection is legal or not, so long as there is a legal path from source to your intended destination . For example routing from an Extractor through other extractors, processors and other storage facilities to a storage facility is perfectly legal. in the example below I'm going from an Extractor (*E) to a Storage Facility (S*)

(*E)==>(S)==>(E)==>(P)==>(S*)

However you DO NOT CLICK on any of the intermediate pins, provided a legal path from (*E) to (S*) exists the system will figure that part out for you. you only click on where you want to get an item from, select it, click [create rout], then click on the destination (for now send it to the CC)

Its always a Good idea to make sure at the CC that you have all the extractors sending to you at this point, you should have 1 incoming route for each extractor you have running.

now go down to the Processors you have set up. Select the "output" you want to come out of it (in this case Oxygen) and rout that to the CC, then repeat for any extra processors you may have set up.

hit submit.

now you just have to wait out what's left of the 15 min extraction cycle.

once all the Raw material showes up in your CC its fairly straightforward, go into the storage of your CC, Select the Raw material, Select create route, then select the processor you want it to go to, double click on it, (if you have more than one processor don't hit submit yet, repeat for every processor you have) once you have all processors ready to accept the correct raw materials, hit submit.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 08:02:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 07/05/2010 21:50:07

Note that because of how the game handles distribution, and the 30 min cycle of the basic processors,(as opposed to the 15 min cycle of the Extractors) if you had enough mats coming in to (for example) feed 3000 units of raw mats to 2 processors and 1500 units of mats to a third every 15 min and three processors set up to receive it, its very likely that 1 would get a full load and start processing, a second will get a partial load and the third will sit empty. (or 2 might get a partial load, or very rarely all three would get a seemingly random partial loading, eventually over several cycles thing should settle down)

Now just make sure your output from all processors will land in the CC and wait for the cycle to end.

---

Now if you want to take your final product off plant, depending on your original setup you will need to either use the Command Center to launch an Rocket powered Cargo container into space, or use the Orbital Customs Office (if you have a anything larger than the Basic Command Center you really should build one) To be honest, unless you really need to move products off the planet your better off to do as much processing on a given world as possible due to export-import fees.

Generally you need to be undocked and in the same solar system.

If you decide (or have to) go for a space launch, you need everything you want to off-world in your CCs storage, then click the Rocket Icon, select everything you want launched into space, move it to the "launch" inventory, then launch into space, (you get a brief countdown) once the countdown goes away, open the Journal to the Planetary Launch tab, select the launch, and warp to container. you loot it exactly like a standard Jetcan, and like a Jetcan it will break up when you empty it (Currently the jetcan shows up in the exact same point in space, this may change once it goes live, but consider yourself forewarned)

If you can use the Orbital Cargo link, make sure everything you want moved offworld is located at the spaceport. Then you simply warp over to the Orbital Cargo link/Custom Office then click on and select the custom office, select Export, then move everything you want taken offworld (paying 10 ISK per item) then open up the Custom office like a Jetcan (only this one does not break up when your done) and move everything to your cargo hold.

You can also use the cargo office to move (some) things to the planet for additional processing. In this case your paying a 5 ISK per item for everything going down to the planet.
Some Additional
notes:

Basically any of the following beginning and ending points are legal

Extractor to Storage (any)
Extractor to Processor that can use what its extracting
Processor to Storage (any)
Processor to Processor that can use that its processing
Storage(any) to processor that can use what you want to send to it

The following beginning and end points are not legal,
Extractor to Extractor(even if that extractor has a legal endpoint in a storage or processor and even if it extracts the same material, the system is not smart enough to guess what you want to do)

Processor to Extractor
Storage(any) to Storage(any) {you basically have to use the Transfer order to move items from one storage facility to another}
Storage to Extractor
Processor Extractors and Storage cannot send items to a Processor that is not already set up to take what you are wanting to send to that processor.

---

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 08:07:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 13/05/2010 09:43:50
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 13/05/2010 07:36:54
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 07/05/2010 23:38:03

Routing from Extractor through Storage Directly to a processor is legal, HOWEVER you do not get any "overflow" to land in the storage, it is lost. The same holds true for routing Processor to processor when your trying to make a given processor a source for the mats needed by a higher level process, or when routing from an Extractor to a processor directly

To be honest if you are going from an Extractor or Processor through a CC, Spaceport or Storage silo to a Processor. your probably better off just ending the rout there then creating a new rout from there to the processor to reduce loss.

---------Skills------

Remote Sensing Rank 1 I/m (basically has no prerequisite skill, req. skill of Sci. 3) The ability to gather and analyze remote sensing data from satellites in orbit around a planet and to produce proper calibrated surveys.
Level 1: allows scans within 1 ly
Level 2: allows scans within 3 ly
Level 3: allows scans within 5 ly
Level 4: allows scans within 7 ly
Level 5: allows scans within 9 ly


Command center upgrades Rank 4 skill C/i (No prerequisite skill) Each rank in this skill improves the quality of command facility available to you, in turn allowing for a greater number of connected facilities on that planet. Cannot be trained on Trial Accounts.

Interplanetary Consolidation Rank 4 skill C/i (No prerequisite skill) For each rank in this skill, you may install a command center on one additional planet, to a maximum of 6 planets. You can have only one command center per planet. Cannot be trained on Trial Accounts.

Currently the following two skills don't seem to do anything at all on Sisi

Planetology Rank 3 I/m (preres of Sci and Remote sensing III )The understanding of planet evolution and the fundamentals of resource extraction.

Advanced Planetology Rank 5 I/m (preres of Planetology IV and Sci IV_
Advanced understanding of planet evolution and the fundamentals of resource extraction.

The Command Centers
Each world type needs a Command center type dedicated to that world.

Regardless of type, and apart from the Basic command center, (which can only do space launches) you have to pay, per m3 of volume

2 ISK Export fee
1 ISK Import Fee
3 ISK Space launch fee

so sending up 500 m3 of material will cost you 1000 ISK,(15000 if you only have a Basic spaceport) which is why you want to process things on the planet first to reduce the number of items!

to transfer materials, the Basic Command Center can only Launch materials (for 15 ISK)

The Command Centers
Each world type needs a Command center type dedicated to that world,

CC types shiping volume, Grid/CPU Skill requirements
Basic 50m3 5372/1007 No skill
Limited 100m3 8322/6616 I
Standard 200m3 11.121/12,022 II
Improved 400m3 13,995/17530 III
Advanced 800m3 16,868/23037 IV
Elite 1600m3 19368 28037 V

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 08:13:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 08/05/2010 19:06:31
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 08/05/2010 19:03:37
Edited by: Steve Thomas on 07/05/2010 23:39:00

The Planets/Products

Right now they basically indicated that what we see on planets currently might change, and that many items/values in the production chain are actually placeholders, so I will update this when its nailed down with more accurate information.

However that said what we do know for sure is that currently all planets seem to have 5 of the basic resources, and currently any "Giant" world currently is a bit of a pain due to the cost of links. Bascialy the reality is that the larger the world, the longer the distance between Pins, the more thoes links cost, the fewer the pins you can put down.

also the plan is that the yield of a planet gets better (Somewhat Drastically) as you go into 0-0, empire and FW space seem to be caped out at roughly 30-35% of max for example.

------
Currently the game has the following planet types that are used in PI (shattered planets currently are not accessible) of those worlds, three have resources that are unique to them

Gas, Temperate, And Lava worlds. between them you have access to 13 of the resources, and you only need 2 more worlds to get all possible base items into your supply chains.

GAS
Base metals
aqueous liquids
ionic solutions
noble gas
*reactive gas*

TEMPERATE
carbon compounds
*autotrophs*
aqueous liquids
micro organisms
complex organisms

LAVA
heavy metals
non-CS crystals
*felsic magma*
suspended plasma
base metals

BARREN
carbon compounds
micro organisms
base metals
aqueous liquids
noble metals

STORM
aqueous liquids
base metals
suspended plasma
ionic solutions
noble gas

OCEANIC
carbon compunds
micro organisms
aqueous liquids
planktic colonies
complex organisms

ICE
Heavy metals
micro organisms
Aqueous liquids
planktic colonies
noble gas

Current production is 6000 units to make 20 units in the basic processor. (note that thats probably a placeholder production rate, it may change when or even after this goes live)

Aqueous Liquids..........| Water
Autotrophs.................| Industrial Fiber
Base Metals................| Reactive metal
Carbon Compounds.....| Biofuels
Complex Organisms....| Proteins
Felsic Magma..............| Silicon
Heavy Metals..............| Toxic Metal
Ionic Solutions............| Electrolytes
Micro organisms..........| Bacteria
Noble Gas...................| Oxygen
Noble Metals................| Precious Metals
Non-CS Crystals..........| Chiral Structures
Planktic Colonies..........| Biomass
Reactive Gas...............| Oxidizing Compound
Suspended Plasma.......| Plasmoids

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 08:18:00 - [6]
 

(Reserved for expansion)

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 08:24:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 08/05/2010 19:37:18
Ok any coments or Questions?

Explaining some Terms I have used here or elsewhere

Pins (or PIN): Planetary Interaction Node. Bascialy any structure thats not a rout that you can "build" on a planet

Node or Nodes: a given point on the map where you can get or manipulate a resource

Hotspot: the system uses a "heatmap" method of showing you where resources are.

ICS: Infinite City Spam, a Term from the Sid Myers Games (Civilisation) for a tactic where you park citys literaly right next to eachother. I used it to describe the reality that you can stack pins literaly next to eachother so that the black cores are touching. I currently use it as a shorthand to saying "placeing a group of pins in as tight a pattern as possible to keep routes down"

Pinstacking: currently it refers to someone stacking pins on top of your network. It originaly refered to stacking pins so close that the black cores overlaped slightly, or to literaly parking a pin on top of a pin.


Nika Dekaia
Posted - 2010.05.07 09:01:00 - [8]
 

Thanks for the guide. DLing Sisi patch now to check it out.

Naliena Arlath
Posted - 2010.05.07 09:51:00 - [9]
 

1) Can PI be done within wormholes?

2) If so, does any special rules apply, or variation in products made, improved yield and so forth?

3) What products can be made from PI? Only typical products as listed under Trade Goods in the current market (items seeded per today)?

4) If I understand correct you always have to pay 15isk/unit for moving materials as a flat rate, then an additional rate depending on which way you are moving goods (import / export). Is there a limit on how many units you can move per launch?

5) If so, how much and is it possible to improve it with skills or better equipment?

Thanks for the guide, very informative :)

Skye Sirrian
Amarr
Robotic Awakening and Revolution
Posted - 2010.05.07 10:45:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Skye Sirrian on 07/05/2010 10:46:05
Nicely written, i have linked this post from my site (Eve Fan). Looking forward to further updates.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2010.05.07 11:00:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 07/05/2010 11:01:37
Originally by: Naliena Arlath
1) Can PI be done within wormholes?

2) If so, does any special rules apply, or variation in products made, improved yield and so forth?

3) What products can be made from PI? Only typical products as listed under Trade Goods in the current market (items seeded per today)?

4) If I understand correct you always have to pay 15isk/unit for moving materials as a flat rate, then an additional rate depending on which way you are moving goods (import / export). Is there a limit on how many units you can move per launch?

5) If so, how much and is it possible to improve it with skills or better equipment?

Thanks for the guide, very informative :)


1) As I heard yesterday, this can now be done.
2) Production yields are 0.0 equivalent I believe, no special rules apply. All POS fuel products can be made, with the exception of those requiring moon mining (which is not possible in w-space).
3) A wide variety of NPC goods, see here for details.
4) I think this only depends on your launch platform storage capacity. So a commmand center can launch less than a spaceport (spaceport also has less tax).
5) None. It is in my opinion highly recommend to train for advanced command centers right away before starting PI, as the basic command center has extremely limited powergrid. An advanced command center (Command center upgrades L4) will allow you to set up a 'serious' operation.

* If you want to produce advanced products (processing step 4-6) you will need to combine products from different planets. It might be wise to set up a 'advanced processing' operation on a planet where you combine processed goods from your 'mining' planets.
* You can only set up command centers in 0.0 in systems where no one has sov or your alliance has sov.
* As of the latest I know, PI is only really profitable if you do it in 0.0
* You want to minimize the number of links as they eat up powergrid fast. Links can hold multiple routes.
* Small planets are the most profitable as your links are 'physically' short and thus use little powergrid. Conversely, gas planets are very bad, as links are very 'physically' long, eating a lot of powergrid, and thus your operation will be small.

Naliena Arlath
Posted - 2010.05.07 12:32:00 - [12]
 

Thanks for the reply.

Planning to do this in a wormhole, with half a dozen planets, which should then hopefully allow me to make the advanced items. Going to start already today to check the planet sizes and such.

Does other industry skills come into play at all, or is PI a completely new branch of skills within industry? My indy char already has PE and such trained to max. Would be nice if the time invested into those skills will be useful.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2010.05.07 12:43:00 - [13]
 

Time invested in any skill eventually always is usefull, but no old skills have any relevance on PI.

Note btw that PI is still changing on Sisi so the final release may differ substantially from my answers.

A good place to look for latest news on PI is here.

Naliena Arlath
Posted - 2010.05.07 13:57:00 - [14]
 

Given the low entry level to get into PI, it's gonna be a dog eat dog competition just like the low-end T1 market. I doubt the profit margins are gonna be worth it for the simple materials / combines. That's why I'm hoping time investment in other industry related skills will have an impact on PI as well, so those of us who spent the time to train up industry alts can get involved into the more advanced sides of PI where there might/should be a better playing field in regards to making a profit from it.

I don't want to invest time into PI just to become a POS fuel bot due to no market profits from that industry branch.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:15:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Naliena Arlath
Given the low entry level to get into PI, it's gonna be a dog eat dog competition just like the low-end T1 market. I doubt the profit margins are gonna be worth it for the simple materials / combines. That's why I'm hoping time investment in other industry related skills will have an impact on PI as well, so those of us who spent the time to train up industry alts can get involved into the more advanced sides of PI where there might/should be a better playing field in regards to making a profit from it.

I don't want to invest time into PI just to become a POS fuel bot due to no market profits from that industry branch.


As the entry level is a lot lower than regular industry and (I think) more fun than mining, I expect the market to be flooded within 2 weeks.
This could get interesting should CCP decide to remove NPC trade goods. Otherwise, it'll be an isk-and time sink for highsec players (at current values anyway).
For wormhole and 0.0 POS owners it is a godsend.
Still, while you're waiting for that fleet to form, or camping that gate, you might as well survey some more minerals on your highsec planets.

Oooh...this just in, you can colonize planets in NPC 0.0 space ! So there is isk to be made for the more daring players.

I'm gonna breed livestock so when I fly it around I can feel like captain Reynolds from Firefly Razz

Takuro Nakamoto
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:37:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Takuro Nakamoto on 07/05/2010 14:38:17
Originally by: Naliena Arlath
Oooh...this just in, you can colonize planets in NPC 0.0 space ! So there is isk to be made for the more daring players.



Finally! A market for the Wine and X-Rated Holos I've been hoarding.

Rathawk
Techno-Wizard Industrial Technologies
Posted - 2010.05.07 14:57:00 - [17]
 

What are the defensive capabilities of these facilities? If I want to destroy/capture someone elses, how does this work. If so, what abilities would MY facility have to resist such a move on the part of someone else?

Why do I suddenly have these visions of mean ships capable of planetary bombardment?

-Rat

Naliena Arlath
Posted - 2010.05.07 15:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Rathawk
What are the defensive capabilities of these facilities? If I want to destroy/capture someone elses, how does this work. If so, what abilities would MY facility have to resist such a move on the part of someone else?

Why do I suddenly have these visions of mean ships capable of planetary bombardment?

-Rat


I don't want planetary bombardment just yet. I want to wait until those Dust514 players get settled in, THEN I want to launch some nukes.

M-m-m-m-m-muuultikill!

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2010.05.07 15:35:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Naliena Arlath
M-m-m-m-m-muuultikill!


Razz multipass ! Razz Also, it's the only way to be sure. YARRRR!!

Your colony can not be attacked (for now). Furthermore, there is a limit (6?) on the number of colonies/planet so make sure you get in early.

Naliena Arlath
Posted - 2010.05.07 16:26:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Louis deGuerre
Furthermore, there is a limit (6?) on the number of colonies/planet so make sure you get in early.



I thought that limit was personal only, based on your skill. That is, YOU can only have sites on 6 planets at once at the most. Thought the planets themselves had no limit on amount of people who can drop sites on them, but the more who congest a planet the slower the yield will build up, thus making everyone's production runs go slower too.


Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 17:58:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Naliena Arlath
Planning to do this in a wormhole, with half a dozen planets, which should then hopefully allow me to make the advanced items. Going to start already today to check the planet sizes and such..
Fair warning they have warned us on Sisi repetedly that whats on Sisi AND on live with the exception of planets that have already been Identified as to the type in the game lore can and probably will change. (they are bascialy re-seeding them)

they keep saying "they learned their lesson with Moongoo"

suposedly the distribution seed will be randomly generated AFTER they shut down the servers to instal Tyranus. so the types you see on live and the Current seeding you see on Sisi will in all probability be diferent

(note the planets will not change possision, but the planet type you see at each possision may be "corrected")


Tierius Fro
Posted - 2010.05.07 19:02:00 - [22]
 

You can build tier 5 (the most complex) products with mats from four planets. With crossover of raw materials, you can build two tier 5 products on a total of six planets. Least ways, based on the test server.

I would think even high-sec will be profitable. The difference between high/low/null is the amount of raw materials, or the rate of extraction (and not the raw materials themselves, like ore and moons). You can build faster in low and null, with the higher extraction rates.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.07 23:13:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 07/05/2010 23:42:32
Originally by: Tierius Fro
You can build tier 5 (the most complex) products with mats from four planets. With crossover of raw materials, you can build two tier 5 products on a total of six planets. Least ways, based on the test server. .
ok clarifying a bit, its bascialy posible to make everything with PI on just your basic 6 worlds, its just a royal pain in the tucas currently to do so.

ChrisIsherwood
Posted - 2010.05.08 05:52:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: ChrisIsherwood on 08/05/2010 06:02:32
Edited to put in a very big thank you for all your efforts.

Is there any hurry to do PI for someone in hi-sec? I.e., if CCP miscalculated and you can earn 30m/h from PI in hisec, then is there any long-term benefit to doing it on May 19th vs June or 2012? You don't claim, stake or own anything, correct? The first person on the planet gets the same as the 50th?

And if CCP has made it so that the people who got rich off moogoo and dispo/tech et al can also get rich from PI and in hi-sec pays the same as level 1/2 missions or cruiser mining, then there is no financial need to do PI. Just wait till you are bored just before the winter patch.

It seems like wait and see is the prudent course; am I missing something?

Any info you can provide as the human time it takes to set up and maintain this? Once you found a planet, 10 mins to set up and 5 min/planet/day?

P.S., I guess people are too diverse, but I am curious as to your personal impressions. Did this feel slick, tedious, unfinished, exciting? Do you see yourself doing PI?

Thanks again,

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.08 06:56:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 08/05/2010 07:01:34
Originally by: ChrisIsherwood
Edited by: ChrisIsherwood on 08/05/2010 06:02:32
Edited to put in a very big thank you for all your efforts.

Is there any hurry to do PI for someone in hi-sec? I.e., if CCP miscalculated and you can earn 30m/h from PI in hisec, then is there any long-term benefit to doing it on May 19th vs June or 2012? You don't claim, stake or own anything, correct? The first person on the planet gets the same as the 50th?

And if CCP has made it so that the people who got rich off moogoo and dispo/tech et al can also get rich from PI and in hi-sec pays the same as level 1/2 missions or cruiser mining, then there is no financial need to do PI. Just wait till you are bored just before the winter patch.

It seems like wait and see is the prudent course; am I missing something?

Any info you can provide as the human time it takes to set up and maintain this? Once you found a planet, 10 mins to set up and 5 min/planet/day?

P.S., I guess people are too diverse, but I am curious as to your personal impressions. Did this feel slick, tedious, unfinished, exciting? Do you see yourself doing PI?

Thanks again,
a couple of points

1 it takes roughly 30 days each (depending on your culmulative learning skills and remaps) to get 5/5 in the most critical skills,(the ones that are Cha primary) a bitless than that for the scanning skill, and if they clarify how the two suport skills work another month or so getting thoes up

they have indicated that they will be working on this up untill the normal winter expansion and adding on diferent things, it kind of sounds like you might be seeing a few extra skills related to what they are adding, and if so they (Hypotheticaly you might see skills like labor managment, Public relations and so on) let me find the quote, but the short version is if they do so and if your interested, starting now will mean you have an edge on the people who jump in later.

although, to be honest, its kind of hard to figure out one way or another just how the comunity at large will respond to this.

Originally by: CCP Hammer
Population stuff didn't make it in for this release but it's not out of the question in future releases. There is a team working on PI for the Winter release but their top priority will be linking networks and player to player trade. That's followed by the other cool stuff like pollution and population. It remains to be seen how far we will get with it. I'm pretty excited about spending another release cycle on improving a new feature.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.05.08 08:08:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Steve Thomas
...
Remote Sensing Rank 1 I/m (basically has no prerequisite skill, req. skill of Sci. 3) The ability to gather and analyze remote sensing data from satellites in orbit around a planet and to produce proper calibrated surveys.
Level 1: allows scans within 1 ly
Level 2: allows scans within 3 ly
Level 3: allows scans within 5 ly
Level 4: allows scans within 7 ly
Level 5: allows scans within 9 ly
...


is that "light years" (as in scanning from out of system) or it's supposed to be "astronomic unit" (remote scanning from within system)?

Ranshe
Posted - 2010.05.08 13:00:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Jagga Spikes

is that "light years" (as in scanning from out of system) or it's supposed to be "astronomic unit" (remote scanning from within system)?


I guess they're light years, as scanning Amarr V or something like that from FD-MLJ gives an error that goes like "you can't scan that as it is 20 ly away and you can scan for 9 ly". Not the exact wording of course. :)

@Steve Thomas - very awesome guide, thanks for putting it together.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.08 17:45:00 - [28]
 

In order, Its light years
and your welcome.

Steve Thomas
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.08 19:59:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Steve Thomas on 08/05/2010 20:09:10

Ok Im putting this here because right now its to early to say one way or another how good any given layout type is due to the fact that the developers can(and do) monky with the numbers on things like Depletion.

Currently they have admitted on test that "resource depletion" was pegged far higher than what they had planed to do with it live.

but that said I have some general observations

Giant planets currently are a royal Pain because being larger, your network of conetions is longer than on a smaller planet.its literaly bad enough that (for example) on some gas giants, the only way to get a decent pull on all 5 posible resources is to go with single extractors for each resource for a grand total of 5 Extractors.

No Im not kidding. Your better off looking for a Tiny or small planet that is slightly less endowed resource wise than a Giant planet that is Solid White at 100%

Generaly though that said currently I dont favor putting a single extractor per hotspot and building up Giant spiderwebs all over the planet.

however its kind of hard for me to say if an ICS deployment of extracters is good or not, or if you should spread out a bit. Useing a 24 hour pull, I have layed down a 7 point ICS type layout on a hotspot that does not seem to change at all, while on a diferent planet haveing 3 seperate PINs on a 24 hour cycel that have a very noticable gap (I could have put 2-3 other extractors between each extractor) between them will seemingly kill that hotspot almost instantly and stays depleted.(that and I have had the exact oposit happen,a 4 point ICS that depletes while a spread out network chugs long happy as a clam)

currently its kind of hard to say how mutch other players are hitting my pulls.


ChrisIsherwood
Posted - 2010.05.08 22:33:00 - [30]
 

1) What are the tradeoffs for the cycle/pull time? I assume it is more yield in exchange for you logging on more often. I assume that it is like tradehub 0.01 games, a mindless, time sink designed to encourage people to use server resources while greatly rewarding criminals who f***ing m*cr* b*t?

Do you currently see a "sweet spot" for pull time? Or is it just individual as people balance their RL schedule with their boredom threshold?

------------

Alts & multiple accounts:
There is no way for your "network" on the planet to feed/consume from someone else's network? Although you could have player one send it to space, swap with #2 who sends it back down.

Is there any synergy with alts? Or will people with alts just spread them across multiple planets so they deplete [slightly] slower?

Originally by: Steve Thomas
Your better off looking for a Tiny or small p... that is slightly less endowed


If you only knew how many times I have used that line.
Embarassed


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