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Glyken Touchon
Gallente
Independent Alchemists
Posted - 2011.02.09 22:56:00 - [931]
 

There's also the practicality- even though Amarrian emperors "can expect to live for at least 500 years through the use of implants and other life-prolonging technology", cloning would extend that indefinately, and I can't see the heirs being too keen on that.

Lancashirian
Posted - 2011.02.15 13:09:00 - [932]
 

I really hope CCP throws us a bone soon. Perhaps the lack of chronicles is them crafting new ones related to this? Although, its more than likely Sansha related. Dropbear DID say that EVERYTHING is connected. (side note: Dropbear, as in dropping clues? Dude.)

Kybernetes Moros
Amarr
True Slave Foundations
Posted - 2011.02.15 14:50:00 - [933]
 

One thing that has been playing on my mind is the allusion to 'something we [the players] need to do to drive the story forward', or words to that effect.

On the off-chance that Dropbear or whoever else reads this and decides to answer, is this an actual in-game action or sequence of actions that needs to be done, or is it a revelation that is to be reached on threads like this one -- or, indeed, a combination of the two? I can understand why you'd want to keep the details of what needs to be done under wraps so as to not spoil the surprise, and hell, I agree with that for the most part, but it seems to me that as it stands no-one is really sure what should be done, if anything.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2011.02.15 14:52:00 - [934]
 

Originally by: Kybernetes Moros
One thing that has been playing on my mind is the allusion to 'something we [the players] need to do to drive the story forward', or words to that effect.

On the off-chance that Dropbear or whoever else reads this and decides to answer, is this an actual in-game action or sequence of actions that needs to be done, or is it a revelation that is to be reached on threads like this one -- or, indeed, a combination of the two? I can understand why you'd want to keep the details of what needs to be done under wraps so as to not spoil the surprise, and hell, I agree with that for the most part, but it seems to me that as it stands no-one is really sure what should be done, if anything.


And hurry it up before we start going into withdrawals!

*Istvaan attempts to gnaw off own hand at the wrist*

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.15 18:53:00 - [935]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
Originally by: Kybernetes Moros
One thing that has been playing on my mind is the allusion to 'something we [the players] need to do to drive the story forward', or words to that effect.

On the off-chance that Dropbear or whoever else reads this and decides to answer, is this an actual in-game action or sequence of actions that needs to be done, or is it a revelation that is to be reached on threads like this one -- or, indeed, a combination of the two? I can understand why you'd want to keep the details of what needs to be done under wraps so as to not spoil the surprise, and hell, I agree with that for the most part, but it seems to me that as it stands no-one is really sure what should be done, if anything.


And hurry it up before we start going into withdrawals!

*Istvaan attempts to gnaw off own hand at the wrist*


I don't think the way to progress this is through appeals for help like this. We need to think of this as peeling away the layers of the story, pretty much for ever.

The story will obviously progress through the natural update cycle but I think we need to take the initiative through RP actions like those that prompted Sansha Fleet camera drone image or closing the Sansha wormholes with gravimetric ECM.

Some ideas I want to explore, I've never seen any of these potential storyline pivots completely covered.

1) Try to Reverse Engineering/Invention with COSMOS BPC items. e.g. treating them as Ancient Relics in reverse engineering and/or using them as meta items in invention. Can we invent those unusual analysers recently discussed.
2) Follow the COSMOS story line to it's conclusions, reading and digesting the contents not farming it.
4) What will happen if we destroyed the Titan above Caldari Prime, does that progress the Heth story line. Does anybody know about any other sites like this that have appeared after story line developments ?
3) Some kind of astrometrics expedition to w-space, lets find a way to get the get the answer to the question where (when) IS Anoikis what is it's nature. This is something I'm trying to progress right now.

The Sansha fleet image was released, has anything else been released by GMs but kept private or with a small cabal.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.15 19:19:00 - [936]
 


I suggesting is. This is science fiction role play, therefore we should apply the scientific method to the situation.

We've developed our hypothesises, in science (fiction) we then test (RP) our experiment (storyline).

Kybernetes Moros
Amarr
True Slave Foundations
Posted - 2011.02.15 20:32:00 - [937]
 

As much as I agree with the idea that new things need to be tried, I can't shake the feeling that it's rapidly reaching a point that overly cryptic point-and-click adventure games reach: you try to combine everything with everything else in the hope that something will eventually happen. It doesn't help that there are various people who are all too inclined to say "There is fact x, item y and paragraph z. What do you think this implies?" rather than "From x, y, and z, I think q because..."; it's all very nice if they think they've a valid idea, but what good is it if they hold it over people rather than sharing it?

At any rate, regarding the COSMOS missions, I did the Minmatar ones a while ago (with the exception of the pirate faction / Amarr Empire / Caldari State agents on account of already-poor standings with them) and took screenshots of most mission texts that I could recall. Off-hand, the things that stood out:
  • As plenty have already noted, the Sleeper ruins scattered around the Ani constellation along with the Hyperbole Nexus, the latter being evocative of wormhole technology or similar.
    • Quote:
      Before the technology for employing crystals for faster-than-light communications was invented various other techniques were used to bolster celestial communications. Half a millennia ago the Amarrians discovered a space phenomenon, places in space that seemed to echo with other similar places elsewhere. They learnt to tap into these echoes, greatly boosting the strength of communication devices. Though these places are today largely neglected, there are some people that feel a connection them. The Hyperbole Nexus is one such a place.

  • One of the agents describes the Sleepers as having 'one day invented this beautiful virtual world, where all were rich and happy; before long, they were all hooked in, their bodies stored away in stasis chambers -- and thus, they faded away into this virtual world of their own creation.'

  • The Angel Cartel apparently has an extensive interest in the Ani constellation and, if memory serves, their ships are to be found around many of the Sleeper ruins (though of course, this interest could be in the political situation between the Empire and Republic that the COSMOS arc also looks at).

  • There are a surprising quantity of agents for The Sanctuary, the scientific division of the Sisters Of EVE. One of these agents mentions that they've 'uncovered new facts paving the way towards greater understanding of the EVE Gate'; you do one mission in which you retrieve research tools for her in Ani, then she hurriedly sends you to help escaped slaves instead with no further mention of the EVE Gate or The Sanctuary.

  • A ruthlessly infectious virus is rapidly spreading through the constellation; according to one agent, it's an age-old disease called the Alobe Virus (or similar) that killed over twenty billion across dozens of planets last time it surfaced.

    • However, another SoE pilot says it to be a man-made septicemic disease manufactured by colonists who then went on the spread it elsewhere after unintentional infection, with the blame being placed on a Cartel subsidiary, IIRC.

    • Yet another SoE agent, this one having become a renegade and apparently at risk of physical harm and having her research destroyed by the larger SoE entity which is opposed to her work, mentions that the same facility as the one above was owned and operated by the SoE and had a leak of an extremely deadly substance. Presumably, the viral agent, placing blame squarely on the SoE and moreover, The Sanctuary. This research involves a portal built by some 'ancient, elusive civilisation' alluded to in ancient texts, long since derelict.


Just a summary of what I can recall off-hand to see if it goes anywhere.

Kylira Ulfrinn
Blackstaff Logistics
Posted - 2011.02.15 21:07:00 - [938]
 

I've tried to read through as much of this thread as I could, as well as linked resources, etc. and I apologize if someone has brought this up before. I've only been around for a few years and admittedly there are some holes in my knowledge regarding canon but there's been something bugging me while reading this thread and I haven't found any posts addressing it.

Has anyone given thought to the implications of a world in which infomorphs can exist?

What happens to you every time your pod is destroyed, or you utilize a jump clone? You go from being a physical entity to simply a packet of information, an infomorph, and then that information is transmitted across vast distances of space to a waiting clone.

But we only have CONCORD's assurances that those transmissions are secure, and if someone could intercept that transmission, someone could copy that information. Or worse, alter it. And then, well, all hell breaks loose.

Kybernetes Moros
Amarr
True Slave Foundations
Posted - 2011.02.15 21:55:00 - [939]
 


Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Posted - 2011.02.16 09:18:00 - [940]
 

Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu
And hurry it up before we start going into withdrawals!

*Istvaan attempts to gnaw off own hand at the wrist*

Good to see you're finally getting one of my old points.

As to the "answers", the evidence I've seen suggests something simple: The Sleepers were colonists and terraformers. That's the big "mystery". How are they related to the Talocan? The Talocan must have found W-space first, and had the technology to access it. The Sleepers had databases of Talocan technology, and were/are studying their technology. So, they had the means, motive and opportunity.

What does Oruze mean?
Most likely it's about "terraforming" entire star systems; changing a star to a more habitable/less habitable one, in order to either open up a "Goldilocks Zone" planet for terraforming or for manipulating a star to put out more energy. It could also be used as a defensive measure, altering a star's coronal output to disrupt shields and electronic systems.

Once you can change how a star interacts with it's environment, you can pretty much do whatever you want, within the limits of that technology. Fry a planet, create some wormholes (that you would need in any event to shift that much heated plasma around) etc. But if you had the power to do this, why wouldn't you, unless you didn't really know what you had? Like, for instance, if you were an Emergent AI simply maintaining the technology and running through a preset program, and told to do it "in the most efficient way possible".

In short, a wonderful "multi-tool" for a stellar empire or colonists simply wanting to sit under a more perfect sky. That is, if they survive the thousands of years it would take to alter said sky. Wink

Which brings up the question; how do you survive so long? Twisted Evil

Allant Doran
Amarr
Locus Industries
Posted - 2011.02.16 12:00:00 - [941]
 

Just a fleeting thought, nothing to focus on but that makes me think, were the Sleepers terraforming entire star systems so that the migrant 'Talocan' could finally settle down again?

Probably not but my mind races on this topic so much.

Kybernetes Moros
Amarr
True Slave Foundations
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:48:00 - [942]
 

Edited by: Kybernetes Moros on 16/02/2011 15:50:04
That it's all a network for stellar engineering and terraformation doesn't seem too bad an idea, but that there are so many anomalies is odd; makes me think that perhaps the programme was 'left running', so to speak, and they didn't wake up for the proverbial alarm clock.

I guess at a stretch that a lot of the Sleeper sites aparently have names reminiscent of various items in computing and networking fits with this, being the gears behind the machine, for lack of a better term.

Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara

Which brings up the question; how do you survive so long? Twisted Evil


Becoming infomorphs would fit with it, as best I can tell. It's in-line with the various references to virtual reality and stasis alongside the Sleepers both in and out of W-space, certainly. One of the site descriptions could go with this fairly well:
Originally by: Sleeper Information Sanctum, C4
Data is eternal, immortal, immutable. Even when the engineers and intelligence behind its creation are gone, information, facts, and knowledge never die. Throughout this deadspace pocket, information lives and breathes, whispering hidden meanings through conduits and cables. Serene though it may be, there are forces at work – mechanical by nature, artificial in existence, enlightened by unnatural choice – that do not want information to be shared. They are unsleeping guardians protecting the universe’s slumbering god, knowledge.


There's a fairly large movement that says that the development of fully realistic, easily-accessible artifical reality would be the downfall of human civilisation, since this virtual world would just be better than the real one. That's something I've thought to have happened with the Sleepers from a relatively early stage in looking at them from a storyline perspective -- like I said, sleeping through the alarm clock. They wanted a more perfect sky 'out there', but they found that they could have any sky they wanted when they were sequestered away in their stasis chambers.

Still. I'd love for there to be some kind of confirmation if there is or anything something to actually do in-game for tangible results with this storyline. >>

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2011.02.16 15:55:00 - [943]
 


Originally by: Kybernetes Moros
I always read The Precious Tableau as being an account of just that -- an infomorph being modified by a party that wasn't the 'owner'.

The first few lines, mostly. "Mime.Access.Ratification(User 3053);" in particular.


How does an informoph know if it's within a Virtual reality simulation?

How do you know if you are dreaming or awake?

How do they know if they are prisons without walls?

This thread on Rene Descartes might provide you with some food for thought.

CCP Dropbear

Posted - 2011.02.16 16:52:00 - [944]
 

Originally by: Lancashirian
I really hope CCP throws us a bone soon.


I don't want to get ahead of things here, especially as things are still in the pre-approval process but yeah, new developments for this are on the horizon. More information will provided once things solidify into approved plans.

khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2011.02.16 16:56:00 - [945]
 

Edited by: khazak mokl on 16/02/2011 16:57:34
In first with a big WOOT.

Very Happy

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2011.02.16 17:24:00 - [946]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Lancashirian
I really hope CCP throws us a bone soon.


I don't want to get ahead of things here, especially as things are still in the pre-approval process but yeah, new developments for this are on the horizon. More information will provided once things solidify into approved plans.


SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Kylira Ulfrinn
Blackstaff Logistics
Posted - 2011.02.16 18:49:00 - [947]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear

I don't want to get ahead of things here, especially as things are still in the pre-approval process but yeah, new developments for this are on the horizon. More information will provided once things solidify into approved plans.



tease Crying or Very sad

inexistin
Rubbish and Garbage Removal
Posted - 2011.02.16 19:48:00 - [948]
 

I am inclined to believe that recently, someone hit the jackpot. But who? And with what?

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.02.16 19:57:00 - [949]
 

Edited by: Auwnie Morohe on 16/02/2011 20:06:48
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
I don't want to get ahead of things here, especially as things are still in the pre-approval process but yeah, new developments for this are on the horizon. More information will provided once things solidify into approved plans.

Too many clues, no really stop that.Cool And \o/


Btw. Nice time to step the hunting up a notch.

Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2011.02.17 00:20:00 - [950]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Lancashirian
I really hope CCP throws us a bone soon.


I don't want to get ahead of things here, especially as things are still in the pre-approval process but yeah, new developments for this are on the horizon. More information will provided once things solidify into approved plans.


Surprised

Excuse me, I have to go...um...change my pants now. Embarassed

Jovan Geldon
Gallente
Lead Farmers
Kill It With Fire
Posted - 2011.02.17 04:19:00 - [951]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Originally by: Lancashirian
I really hope CCP throws us a bone soon.


I don't want to get ahead of things here, especially as things are still in the pre-approval process but yeah, new developments for this are on the horizon. More information will provided once things solidify into approved plans.


Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Posted - 2011.02.17 08:35:00 - [952]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
I don't want to get ahead of things here, especially as things are still in the pre-approval process but yeah, new developments for this are on the horizon. More information will provided once things solidify into approved plans.

Confused Now I'm even more depressed. Wink

Allant Doran
Amarr
Locus Industries
Posted - 2011.02.17 20:56:00 - [953]
 

Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
I don't want to get ahead of things here, especially as things are still in the pre-approval process but yeah, new developments for this are on the horizon. More information will provided once things solidify into approved plans.

Confused Now I'm even more depressed. Wink


Same. Knowing an answers is coming just makes all that we do seem a little futile UNTIL it comes to light.
I'd rather Dropbear had stayed silent and only told us what the continuation is when they were 100% read yto reveal it xD

Oh well, can't really win either way, poor CCP Droppies :(

Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Posted - 2011.02.18 04:28:00 - [954]
 

Originally by: Allant Doran
Same. Knowing an answers is coming just makes all that we do seem a little futile UNTIL it comes to light.

Oh, it's not that: It's that the next step has yet to be approved... how long after the story started?
Quote:
I'd rather Dropbear had stayed silent and only told us what the continuation is when they were 100% read yto reveal it xD

Oh well, can't really win either way, poor CCP Droppies :(
Be careful what you ask for; you might just get it?

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2011.02.18 12:34:00 - [955]
 

Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Dropbear sounds

I read this as confirmation of my suspicion, that the Sleeper story will not progress (or unravel its mysteries for that matter) until CCP decides it is time to.

That is fine with me. It just a shame you are hoaxing people into foolishly believing they stand any chance of 'solving a mystery' when key elements of the puzzle are being hold back. And no, allowing people a glimpse of the corner of one of the missing pieces do not count as providing a clue players can work with; it is just teasing and only leads to wild speculations which cannot be verified or even rejected.

Of course, having people go on insane speculations might be fun when YOU know what the mystery is about, but there is no game to it for others. No investigation mystery solving puzzle game, no interactive story telling.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2011.02.18 14:12:00 - [956]
 

Edited by: Auwnie Morohe on 18/02/2011 14:13:40
Jowen you are wrong. And we will find out whether you are soon, hopefully.

The searching is the game, it is the story. You know archeology and Indiana Jones. We are digging through ancient ruins and collecting data and pieces of broken pottery trying to make sense of the past. We are building a picture for our selves and the rest of New Eden of societies long gone.

And while you are wandering the dark catacombs of a millennia ago deserted city you figure out that this sign you found on a wall has a special meaning. You push upon it and a door opens up into a dark room only lit from a circular hole in the ceiling. There you find sitting in a beam of light on an altar a human skull made of Azurite. Which you bring back to Jita and sell for 100 billion isk.

Next day you find yourself as a news item because not only did you open the door to your retirement fund but you also opened the gates to the hell mouth and now New Eden is flooded with super vampires.Confused

The problem is we, most of us anyway, are sitting in the comfort of a library trying to figure out things from the books other people wrote.

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2011.02.18 14:18:00 - [957]
 

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Dropbear sounds

I read this as confirmation of my suspicion, that the Sleeper story will not progress (or unravel its mysteries for that matter) until CCP decides it is time to.

That is fine with me. It just a shame you are hoaxing people into foolishly believing they stand any chance of 'solving a mystery' when key elements of the puzzle are being hold back. And no, allowing people a glimpse of the corner of one of the missing pieces do not count as providing a clue players can work with; it is just teasing and only leads to wild speculations which cannot be verified or even rejected.

Of course, having people go on insane speculations might be fun when YOU know what the mystery is about, but there is no game to it for others. No investigation mystery solving puzzle game, no interactive story telling.

Relax, G. No-one is hoaxing anything. I love the implication that I don't know something yet. It's what keeps me coming back to Eve. Tbh, the only thing.

Amorphisis
Posted - 2011.02.18 14:32:00 - [958]
 

I'm so happy i could touch myself ... oh wait

Calathea Sata
State War Academy
Posted - 2011.02.18 14:54:00 - [959]
 

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
Dropbear sounds

I read this as confirmation of my suspicion, that the Sleeper story will not progress (or unravel its mysteries for that matter) until CCP decides it is time to.

That is fine with me. It just a shame you are hoaxing people into foolishly believing they stand any chance of 'solving a mystery' when key elements of the puzzle are being hold back. And no, allowing people a glimpse of the corner of one of the missing pieces do not count as providing a clue players can work with; it is just teasing and only leads to wild speculations which cannot be verified or even rejected.

Of course, having people go on insane speculations might be fun when YOU know what the mystery is about, but there is no game to it for others. No investigation mystery solving puzzle game, no interactive story telling.

I agree that an unsolvable game is flawed in nature, it is just teasing and nothing else; perhaps this is why I was put off from all these puzzles because it's unsolved not because we cannot, but because of the puzzle is unsolvable in design, or the solution is simple "scheduled in x months"... which is just like watching a poorly scripted TV show.

Allant Doran
Amarr
Locus Industries
Posted - 2011.02.18 19:03:00 - [960]
 

I guess that's kinda how I feel.

I don't feel like this is fake or anything, I do believe that the players figuring out what the story is is exactly how this will progress.
The only thing that bothers me is that many of us were under the impression that once we figured out the current story, the advancements were already approved and ready to be implemented as soon as we struck a key point or discovery.

Knowing that the next load of information hasn't even been approved yet is, well, off-putting to say the least. Doesn't really matter if I follow topics like these for daily advancements anymore, since it's just something I'll only have to wait to be released to find out anyway.

Kinda like the difference between watching an episode of something the day it first airs, or buying the box-set years later with everything ready, just waiting to be viewed.
I had assumed EVE's current ficiton arc was like a box-set, with new information and story progression only a discovery away. Instead it's currently being aired in real-time, season 1 ended in a cliff-hanger and the producers aren't sure when the next season will begin.

Still, I AM definitely looking forward to what the story is going to be, just a little saddened that it isn't playing out as we had believed it would.
I guess sometimes, CCP's desires don't quite overcome the very structured process of a modern business, which can't be helped.

Keep up the great work though, CCP, your spirit is immeasurable, that's for sure :)


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