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Amann Karris
Amarr
Karris Family
Posted - 2010.11.17 19:11:00 - [721]
 

Originally by: Aedeal
Aren't people forgetting something really fundamental here? If there's something to unlock, we have to unlock it. If it were me in charge of putting it in, I'd put in a really cryptic trigger that sent someone at CCP a message letting them know it'd been triggered. That means it's something to do in-game. If we can't do it in game, it's doubtful to be the answer to unlocking it.

I think you're referring to this:
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
I don't want to say "yes" and "no" to explicit ideas, suggestions, theories, etc. At this point in time it's about all of you guys working together, developing theories, and developing consensus about them. Hopefully at that point, there'll be opportunities for more meaningful vindications of those theories than forum posts. Get me?

I doubt there is anything to unlock in-game.
Originally by: Icer Xx
Why are we so focused on the sleepers? what do all of the shattered planets have in common? what were they before? does their former structure interact with isogen-5? were they all the same type of planet?

One of the final sentences in the chronicle wormholes were introduced in, was that we wouldn't look at the planets, we'd go through the holes.

These two sentences you mean?
Originally by: World on Fire
The civilizations of New Eden would mourn for those who were lost, and then search in earnest for the reason why they died. But they would not look amongst the burnt cinders of shattered worlds.

They would search for answers by passing through tears in the fabric of space, and venturing towards the unknown.

Two very deceptive sentences. There is not an indication that there is something to look for there. It simply...

...well, read it for yourself. What does it really say? What happened in that entire Chronicle series?

Was it the Sleeper drones that caused the Seyllin incident? Or was it something in k-space?

Look at this quote:
Quote:
He considered for a moment the 82% probability that things were not as they seemed. He couldn't dismiss it, but he distrusted the numbers. Instinct was telling him that nothing ahead was all that foreign, that they needed diplomats, not scientists.

So, what was going on?
Quote:
"I see," the director finally offered. "Tell me, Hilen?"

"Yes, sir?"

"Is it their previous experience that you're after?"

The tl;dr explanation: Ishukone and Rogue Drones. They had a prior arrangement. That's the "experience" mentioned.

Rogue Drones were stockpiling the Isogen-5 that destroyed Seyllin.

There is a puzzle to uncover here; it's simply not entirely in wormhole space. Here's some pieces:

1. Someone has access to the Mirrors from New Eden. (Mention of "Activity on the Line" and "She was at one of the Mirrors". How would they know that, hmm? Or is there something more/less going on?)
2. Stockpiling of Isogen-5 was being conducted in New Eden via Rogue Drones. (Why? At who's direction?)
3. Someone in New Eden was able to produce the Zephyr, which could fly right by Sleeper drones without being attacked. (We know the who, we know the why, but to what ends?)
4. ???
5. Profit (sorry, couldn't resist.)

It's not a conspiracy; not in the way you're thinking. It's not just about Sleepers; though there is an interesting story there, and there are many questions left unanswered. It's not just about SoE, Intaki Syndicate (hehehe, got you guys earlier; remember, do research yourself, don't trust everything you hear/read), Ishukone, Mordu's Legion and the Intaki; but there's a deal going on there, and part of it includes research from the Zephyr being delivered to Ishukone via the Sisters of EVE. There is a very good reason why, if you read between the lines.

That's when pieces fall into place, and most of the "conspiracy" disappears.

So, why replace the Rogue Drones with Sleepers? If I were a betting man, I'd bet that they weren't. In fact, I'd argue that the Rogue Drones are rather important pieces. Hah!

Nishachara
True Enlightenment
Posted - 2010.11.17 21:32:00 - [722]
 

I just pondered this puzzle while doing my usual scanning today.
With that on my mind i checked some things in my hangar and when i saw all that sleeper tags ( Neural network analyzer, drone AI nexus, sleeper data library...) i remembered anoikis chronicle where at the end are mentioned obtained numbers of those things by npc corps.

So..what they can use them for?
Has anybody come up with an idea yet ?

Imho...maybe they are building new kind of ships or something?
(...prolly with help from jove...)

As I see, empires first made us capsuleers with help from jove, and basic idea was to optimize controlling ships used for various tasks(war/industry/transport..etc) and with this empires gain certain power by having this highly efficient capsuleers on their side.
But that didnt turned exaclly right, they cant control capsuleers as they would wish to imo.

So what simpler solution to have highly efficient ships without capsuleers?
..AI...
but that didnt turned right, just look all the rouge drones.

Maybe those sleeper "tags" are infact just software from sleeper ships.
I mean hardware is destroyed when i tear the sleeper BS with my 425s to shredsLaughing
But what remains is software that controlled that BS for instance.
And empires (or more precisely certain corporations within major empires) maybe need that kind of software to make a fully functional AI controlled ship without of danger going rouge.
Imo that would be a sufficient incentive to give capsuleers t3 ships bluring their eyes in the process, just to acquire more of this highly developed drone software.


Amann Karris
Amarr
Karris Family
Posted - 2010.11.17 23:08:00 - [723]
 

Originally by: Nishachara
So..what they can use them for?
Has anybody come up with an idea yet ?

Hmm... what would someone want to do with:
Quote:
Data Library: 11,799,985
Neural Network Analyzer: 1,162,057
Coordinates Database: 244,234
Drone AI Nexus: 70,726

Perhaps the clues are hidden amongst some static, eh? Or perhaps certain preconceived notions are interfering with the image?

Hmm.

Quote:
So what simpler solution to have highly efficient ships without capsuleers?
..AI...
but that didnt turned right, just look all the rouge drones.

Hmm. What about Rogue Drones now?

::whistles innocently::

Arvash
Minmatar
Disciples of Tezcatlipoca
Posted - 2010.11.18 01:30:00 - [724]
 

Originally by: Amann Karris
Data Library: 11,799,985
Neural Network Analyzer: 1,162,057
Coordinates Database: 244,234
Drone AI Nexus: 70,726


Actually, given the context of the chronicle, my first thought was that this stuff is the detritus that the "speaker" doesn't care about capsuleers and empire having. My question, which I have not had time to research yet, is what is not listed here that falls in the same item class, and what can those items do?

Originally by: Amann Karris
Hmm. What about Rogue Drones?


OK, so which is it Amann? Are you in the SOE camp or the Jove camp after all? And after leading poor Roga Dracor all over like you think the Jove aren't "it" too. Wink

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.18 04:46:00 - [725]
 

Yes, shame on you..Embarassed

Why sleepers instead of rogue drones indeed? Detrius..One man's trash..

This all starts with the Society somehow. The Jove are implicated as main players in regards to the Book of Truth, the SuperDoomsday Device, etc, etc, et al..

The Society is interested in advancing humanity's knowledge of all things. One of these might likely be advanced travel techniques. They could have learned of wormhole space years ago. They might then have been investigating the Talocan and their hyperspatial technology. And consequently using wormhole space as a hidden base of operations.

They might also have perfected the HyCon program and instituted it into Nation in a new bid for supremecy of their ideals. The Sisters have apparently known about this for a while as well. They obviously have the most conprehensive spy network in New Eden. They have then been tipping off Concord and the Empires to some of these things, retaining a certain amount of information privy, as an ace in the hole.. The Sister dislike capsuleers and and see them clashing with Nation as beneficial to them. Hopefully both wipe each other out. The collateral damage is acceptable for the greater good.

Now let's suppose also that the Society has tech 3 drone technology. Wouldn't the Empires like it if we harvested t3 materials for them to directly profit from t3 drone production, or any other t3 technology that it is already in our power to produce, maybe through invention? It seems to suggest that the sleeper drones are the advancement the rogue drones were supposed to be. We'll see if tech 3 drones start popping up..

The shattered planets seem to be a test of the SuperDoomsday device hinted at in the chronicles. Like maybe a screw up by the Empires themselves. They seemed to know where the bad things happened. Which implies the Sisters, and perhaps the Empires have previous knowledge of wormhole space, as well.

Amann Karris
Amarr
Karris Family
Posted - 2010.11.18 09:08:00 - [726]
 

Originally by: Arvash
Actually, given the context of the chronicle, my first thought was that this stuff is the detritus that the "speaker" doesn't care about capsuleers and empire having. My question, which I have not had time to research yet, is what is not listed here that falls in the same item class, and what can those items do?

That's the thing; these are the things that Capsuleers don't use. They're sold.

Quote:
OK, so which is it Amann? Are you in the SOE camp or the Jove camp after all? And after leading poor Roga Dracor all over like you think the Jove aren't "it" too. Wink

The Jove?

Let's entertain this argument for a moment. Are the Jove the intended buyers of the the items in question? Possibly. It's information, and the Jove seem to lust for that. But what could they do with it?

Look at the other pieces, the ones that Capsuleers use in T3 production. There is a mention of AI being used by the Jove, but that they abandoned it in favor of something "more controllable".

If what others have said is true, and they are either behind the Sleepers or are evolved from them, then it becomes a non-argument. They would have access to the same information. They abandoned AI research long ago, and had access to the same technologies. It would be a good argument for locking the Sleepers up in W-space if indeed the Jove did "lock them up" there.

But then, why would they "unlock" this same menace? I don't think they would. In fact, they didn't.

Where do the Rogue Drones come in? Well, let's first look at the possibility that the items mentioned above were destined for the Jove.

1. Ishukone had dealings with the Jove (Namely: capsule technology), and would be a reason for Zainou to contact them in regards to Sleeper space.
2. The Jove are obsessed with information.
3. However, they do not use AI.
4. Could the Sleepers have been remnants of the Jove, or forward scouts for a Jove exploration mission?
5. Who were the Talocan, and why were they also in W-space?
6. Who was using the Rogue Drones to collect Isogen-5?

To be fair, the Jove were an early "prime suspect" for the "Big Conspiracy". They've got hands in a lot of pies, but I don't think they're the "big bad". That is, I don't see the evidence pointing inexorably towards the Jove. The Jove as the antagonist theory has never sat right with me.

SoCT/HyCon manipulation? Possibly, but then why would one of their number go "rogue" (pardon the pun) to steal a Sleeper from W-space? (Blood-Stained Stars epic arc).

A SoCT member/Jove as the ambassador speaking in the conversation at the end of Anoikis? Doubtful on both counts. Most likely a Gallente ambassador, or an ambassador from one of the Gallente member planets/regions. Someone who would be able to contact Burreau (and possibly have trained her), and have access to the Gallente Senate's intel. It's possible this same individual was an SoCT graduate. One point for the SoCT, but not evidence that the SoCT was behind this.

Most of the evidence points away from the Jove... possibly to the SoCT, but not to the organization but to the "shadow" elements of the organization. HyCon possibly, which if you read the chronicle mentioning it may link to Sansha's Nation. Laughing

I might take a more detailed look at this at a later point, but it really doesn't answer the big questions. ugh Or... does it!? Stay tuned.

Zephyr Song
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.11.18 09:38:00 - [727]
 

I haven't read the whole thread yet but i'm wondering is there is an "overview" of what is known about wormholes, eg what races or organisations are involved, how they interact, etc? Anything along these lines would be great for someone not deep into the lore yet.


Also this is (IMO) what happened: The Sleepers were created by the Talocons. They evolved. They rebelled. The Talocon fled. They became the Jove. The Sleepers awoke, and they have a plan. (cue music). Laughing

Aedeal
Posted - 2010.11.18 15:38:00 - [728]
 

Originally by: Amann Karris
Originally by: Aedeal
Aren't people forgetting something really fundamental here? If there's something to unlock, we have to unlock it. If it were me in charge of putting it in, I'd put in a really cryptic trigger that sent someone at CCP a message letting them know it'd been triggered. That means it's something to do in-game. If we can't do it in game, it's doubtful to be the answer to unlocking it.

I think you're referring to this:
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
I don't want to say "yes" and "no" to explicit ideas, suggestions, theories, etc. At this point in time it's about all of you guys working together, developing theories, and developing consensus about them. Hopefully at that point, there'll be opportunities for more meaningful vindications of those theories than forum posts. Get me?

I doubt there is anything to unlock in-game. [/quote/


I disagree with your interpretation entirely... What he means is 'Go talk it out and work it out, then you'll be able to do more about it that just endlessly forum post'.

Tyber Zaan
Posted - 2010.11.18 20:47:00 - [729]
 

Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 18/11/2010 20:48:17
My Findings Thus far:

Sleepers were collecting and storing massive amounts of solar energy. (solar arrays and solar cells)
Reason: Possibly some means of long-term power source.

Sleepers and Talocan were doing heavy research into Biotechnology/Medical.
Reason: Evidence indicates that the Talocan were suffering from some form of illness, (Quarantine Zone).

Sleepers designed extremely durable drones capable of self-replication.
Reason: They needed guards capable of surviving for long periods of time.

Hypothetical Analysis: The Talocan began to fall to some unknown sickness, and turned to the sleepers for help. However, they were unsuccessful, and they began to fall to the same illness. It spread like wildfire across their empire. In a last bid for survival, they froze themselves in stasis, drawing on stars for power, and designed drones to defend against any looters/scavengers, asteroids, and any other threat that would come to their structures in the future. However, time took its toll, and the machinery failed, only the self-replicating drones survived to this day.

Amann Karris
Amarr
Karris Family
Posted - 2010.11.19 18:37:00 - [730]
 

Originally by: Tyber Zaan
Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 18/11/2010 20:48:17
My Findings Thus far:

Sleepers were collecting and storing massive amounts of solar energy. (solar arrays and solar cells)
Reason: Possibly some means of long-term power source.

What is your evidence?

Quote:
Sleepers and Talocan were doing heavy research into Biotechnology/Medical.
Reason: Evidence indicates that the Talocan were suffering from some form of illness, (Quarantine Zone).

what is your evidence of infection of the Talocan?

Quote:
Sleepers designed extremely durable drones capable of self-replication.
Reason: They needed guards capable of surviving for long periods of time.

What is the process of self-replication, and what evidence suggests this?

Quote:
Hypothetical Analysis: The Talocan began to fall to some unknown sickness, and turned to the sleepers for help. However, they were unsuccessful, and they began to fall to the same illness. It spread like wildfire across their empire. In a last bid for survival, they froze themselves in stasis, drawing on stars for power, and designed drones to defend against any looters/scavengers, asteroids, and any other threat that would come to their structures in the future. However, time took its toll, and the machinery failed, only the self-replicating drones survived to this day.


What are your steps to proving your hypothesis?

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.19 20:20:00 - [731]
 

Pretty certain the overview goes something like this. After all, it is the history I have been after. The current is just an effect of the past.

We are in the fourth age of the universe. The Talocan are a remnant of the third age of the universe. The second age was dominated by giants. We have all seen their remains in New Eden. The first age was the age of creation, when the "Most High" god chose to invest himself in creation.

The Talocans gave venerence to the stars. They believed that the gods resided within the stars, and offered blood and hearts to feed and appease them. I believe that wormhole space is likely the "Talocan Empire" or what passes as such. They would be very reminiscient of Blood Raiders, or Thugees, in my mind.. Taking the sacrifice theme to it's ultimate obscenity. Perhaps they decided to join their god in the heaven in which he resided. A hypothetical base for people living inside stars.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.19 20:28:00 - [732]
 

As such, the Oruze Osnobnyk (wtfever) might then be a transfer device for life forces being fed to a sun. Not home, not train, but transfer..

The Oruze Enclave could be a device created to harness the energies of a star and provide a place for the Oruze to reside and interact with the Sleepers(SoCT or First Jove Empire).

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.19 21:19:00 - [733]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 19/11/2010 21:35:35
So if the genesis point of mankind is earth, which it has been in every cosmology I have studied, it begs a question. Where is Earth really located in game terms, and what was the Joves reason to help mankind rebuild civilization. What was the First Jovian Empires horrible mistake, really? And where did the First Jovian Empire originate, in the cosmic "short term"?

A thought on analogies, in relation to this line of thought, where were the First and Second Foundations located?

Could it be, the Bloodlines of mankind stretched far out into the folds of space, became so jaded and hateful, so far removed itself from humanity, that it came back and irradicated it's own base populace, not even realizing it at first? A reason to study Talocan and Terran artifacts, and realize they go amazingly well with your own sleeper technology..

K'hanesh Lor'al
Amarr
The Golden Knights
Posted - 2010.11.19 21:21:00 - [734]
 

Hi all, I've never posted here before, and have not done much W-space exploration, but have been vigorously reading these threads regarding "CCP's biggest puzzle..."

Perhaps someone already posted this somewhere on another thread, but I have not seen it.

If you Wiki "Enhenuadanni," the related topic pops up as "Enheduanna..."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enheduanna

Some very interesting stuff that I think realtes to these threads, escpecially about her relationship to the divine, and being the world's first recorded poet. Perhaps the Enhenuadanni are followers of Enheduanna???

I'll leave it to the more experienced people to figure out if there is a connection.

Just want to give a big shout out to all the dedicated players... these threads are some of the best reading I;ve had since college, lol :)

On a side note, I'm a combat pilot in-game, but with decent scan skills. I would like to assist in exploring this lore in-game some with a WH corp, but I don't want to leave mine. Hit me up in-game if you ever need an extra hand.

-Khan out :)

Tyber Zaan
Posted - 2010.11.19 21:35:00 - [735]
 

Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 19/11/2010 21:42:55
Edited by: Tyber Zaan on 19/11/2010 21:40:01
Originally by: Amann Karris

What is your evidence?


Solar cells, and Solar arrays. A solar cell refers to a type of battery, and a solar array is a type of power collector. I have seen these anoms in WHs multiple times.

Quote:

what is your evidence of infection of the Talocan?



The "Quarantine zone" anomoly, I came across one myself. It consists of entirely Talocan structures, and entering it causes a distorted automated message, urging the pilot to stay away, and threatening action if the pilot does not leave the area immediatley. "Quarantine" refers to isolating people with some form of infectious illness. In addition, data collected from the "Mirror" shows several areas devoted to medical research and more quarantine areas. The quarantined areas in the sleeper structure suggest it began to spread to them. Also, the eerily abandoned talocan ships scattered across sleeper space, only really damaged by the test of time.

Quote:

What is the process of self-replication, and what evidence suggests this?



The process of replecation is unknown at this time, but the evidence is in the sleeper descriptions. Some are describe as "Having evidence of multiple repairs to its armor due to micrometeroid impacts, this drone must have been one of the earliest models" And "Judging by the pristine condition of this drones armor, it must have been only recently constructed or activated."

Quote:

What are your steps to proving your hypothesis?


I cannot prove this hypothesis, this is only an educated guess based on evidence.

K'hanesh Lor'al
Amarr
The Golden Knights
Posted - 2010.11.19 22:10:00 - [736]
 

Edited by: K''hanesh Lor''al on 19/11/2010 22:27:30
Going off of the Enheduanna wiki entry, this sounds suspiciously like the dissapearance of empress Jamyl...

"Near the end of her life, En-hedu-ana called on Inanna for help as she reveals in nin-me-sara, her most famous hymn, because she temporarily has been dislodged from her position by Lugal-Ane, a rebelling Sumerian King showing this "imperial" appointment to be locally unacceptable. According to Annette Zgoll, the Sumerian people believed that En-hedu-ana had written nin-me-sara so effectively that her prayers to Inanna were answered with nine victories thus quelling nine battles between the Sumerians and the Akkadians. This allowed her nephew, Naram Sin, who was then king, to unite Sumer and Akkad successfully for several years. After this historic coup, En-hedu-ana was restored to her post as En of Nanna in Ur"

Again, me being a lore-newbie if this is buried in another thread somewhere my sincere apologies.

EDIT: The more I think about this, perhaps the connection is reveresed... Jamyl was deoposed, and prayed, and her prayers were answered by the Enhenduanni... the nine Battles could be the minmatar invasion... all 3 are mentioned in Theodicy...

Hmmmm. Any thoughts?

Umega
Solis Mensa
Posted - 2010.11.20 06:37:00 - [737]
 

Originally by: K'hanesh Lor'al
Edited by: K''hanesh Lor''al on 19/11/2010 22:27:30
Going off of the Enheduanna wiki entry, this sounds suspiciously like the dissapearance of empress Jamyl...

"Near the end of her life, En-hedu-ana called on Inanna for help as she reveals in nin-me-sara, her most famous hymn, because she temporarily has been dislodged from her position by Lugal-Ane, a rebelling Sumerian King showing this "imperial" appointment to be locally unacceptable. According to Annette Zgoll, the Sumerian people believed that En-hedu-ana had written nin-me-sara so effectively that her prayers to Inanna were answered with nine victories thus quelling nine battles between the Sumerians and the Akkadians. This allowed her nephew, Naram Sin, who was then king, to unite Sumer and Akkad successfully for several years. After this historic coup, En-hedu-ana was restored to her post as En of Nanna in Ur"

Again, me being a lore-newbie if this is buried in another thread somewhere my sincere apologies.

EDIT: The more I think about this, perhaps the connection is reveresed... Jamyl was deoposed, and prayed, and her prayers were answered by the Enhenduanni... the nine Battles could be the minmatar invasion... all 3 are mentioned in Theodicy...

Hmmmm. Any thoughts?


It has been brought up before. At this point.. if the Enhenduanni are a real part of the story(speculation has to whether they are canon or not is ungoing), then their characters are in the play and on stage. But who.. where.. and why is better questions to perhaps ask than what are they. Mouse will lead to cheese, even if he has none.

We have to becareful with what we do with these words. They really could lead down a wrong tunnel and fast when taking a word in some context that we are familiar with in our own current world and using that has a guideline. Of course.. it also makes for a great tool, as the writers of EVE have gotten inspiration from somewhere.. and that inspiration could have a focal point in our rl history/lore.

Examples..

Four empires.. native american indians and their belief of four different human races on earth that were made that way, by a 'Great Spirit'. Reds, yellows, blacks, whites. Something about a prophecy of each having a holy stone that needs to be brought together before/during (I don't remember the entire legacy) when the current world, the fourth world.. ends. There were four ancient races of New Eden.. and now four 'new' ones.

Why the hell does the Amarrian symbol remind me of the Freemason's Compass n Square? Think about the two in the same context briefly for a moment if you know enough of both to do so.

Could either of these two things be at all relevent? Maybe.. maybe not. Without concrete fact or some very strong linking tie that I'd say is either ingame, or in chronicles.. use words as a tool, the thread.. not the painting on the tapestry.


Aedeal
Posted - 2010.11.20 14:01:00 - [738]
 

I think we can work out from this something: Amann has never been to W-Space proper or read the Whiskey docs. Try them, they are pretty handy.

As regards solar cells, that can also refer to the equipment to harvest solar power (photo-voltaic cells), which I think it refers to here.

And Umega: Someone with sense! Let's please work with facts we are presented, not dive off the side along routes that start with the same name.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.20 14:51:00 - [739]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 20/11/2010 14:58:28
The universe our capsuleers reside in is cyclical. They currently reside in the fourth age of creation. All evidence points to this as fact. In this universe, earth is the center, the Genesis point. Of that, I am also relatively certain.

All the cosmologies we have explored hold this as a basic truth. So, if that is indeed the way it is, Earth was located in New Eden. So, what really happened in New Eden? The entire system was laid waste, much as if, a human power turned it's aggressive tendencies upon the system and obliterated it.

If Earth was in New Eden, the farther we get from Earth, the more advanced cultures we might find. What besides distance, seperates the star systems? Time. As the races and bloodlines spread out, away from the Earth, they advanced technologically and socially. They became farther removed from humanity until they couldn't recognize it. Then suppose a ultra advanced race of humans found a gate at the edge of their exploring. This gate leads to virgin space, or does it? Perhaps where it leads is to a beautiful system with an indigenous population of low tech humans. They have space travel, but hardly worth dealing with as you can wipe out the whole Empire with little thought. So do you? What if you do, and realize it holds the key to a mystery you have been trying to solve?

You wouldn't even have to include the Eve Gate, as the transfer medium. Someone had perfected wormhole direction. And they went home to challenge the god that made them. So you leave the EVE Gate as the Genesis device.

Amann Karris
Amarr
Karris Family
Posted - 2010.11.20 14:56:00 - [740]
 

Originally by: Aedeal
I think we can work out from this something: Amann has never been to W-Space proper or read the Whiskey docs. Try them, they are pretty handy.

Do me a favor; don't assume you know anything about me. Because you're wrong. On both counts. Done with the ad hominems now?

Now, the title of this thread is "Sleepers instead of Rogue Drones?"

Quote:
And Umega: Someone with sense! Let's please work with facts we are presented, not dive off the side along routes that start with the same name.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1261656
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1416225&page=1

What I've been suggesting is to look at the evidence presented, and where possible, corroborating information with other sources.

Is it useful to start with information from other sources? Not really. Start with what's in-game. Back it up with in-game information, and then look elsewhere. What are the links to the Jove? Where is there mention of Enheduanni?

Present the evidence you see as supporting your theories. "What if" arguments are not proof. Answering a question with another question is not proof.

But seeing as how I obviously don't know what I'm talking about, have fun guys! ugh

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.20 15:10:00 - [741]
 

Edited by: Roga Dracor on 20/11/2010 15:39:25
And antagonizing people giving hints is rather non-productive, as is the wtf the Jove did it. Of which I am still relatively certain they did.

The Enhuadanni are the Intaki, from what I gather, and they have somehow managed to win a cold war with the Jove. The Reverand Mother of SoE is Intaki, I think. And the history relates her to the En. Enki, her (son), is analogous with the Intaki people, which implies she is ancient and the progenitor of the Intaki peoples. The Jove, their "enemies", are analogous to Abzu, the old Earth god. Making me think that perhaps the Jove don't originate in this Age of Mankind.

The Intaki have been manipulating the scene to try and maneuver the Jove into a less powerful position in New Eden politics. As well as strengthen their position in the Gallente Federation. If they can't it is likely they will succede.

So, the myth says that Nammu (SOE RevMother's parent) concieved a child through An the sky God(SoCT). Does this mean that the Intaki are the result of a breeding program? Or that they somehow have Jovian bloodlines? Is the Reverand Mother of Jovian ancestry?

Or, the SoCT equate to the Enki, The Star People as Abzu, and the Sleeper Enclaves the earth in which the Society took up abode. Or it could be cyclical and both are true..

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.20 18:20:00 - [742]
 

The Capsuleer program is a science experiment. A flawwed one, I think. Vey much like the Rogue drones.

There are ancient forces running New Eden, we can all agree on that. The direction of the Empires suggests that logistics in the cluster are a big economic choke point. Their is a chronicle stating that moving goods is the true limit to the New Eden economy or some such.

We are in the Age of Vice, arguably the Gallente's Age. The previous Age I would argue belonged to the Matari, perhaps why they took the hardest hit in the prior Apocolypse. The Second Age was the Age of the Giants. The Caldari concept of oneness made them Giants, or the MegaCorporations could be the analogy. The First Age was the age of the Priest, the begetter of life and religion. The "ArchTypes" of these races vie for their ideologies. A fifth race, oversees the entire experiment in a quasi-lifeless existance, crunching the numbers.

Now it seems the ghosts of the past experiments may have come back as a sixth race to haunt everyone, the fifth race included.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2010.11.20 19:34:00 - [743]
 

Im having a hard time following you Roga. Not that there is no logic to your theories but more that you are, imho, taking it a bit too far. I feel you are getting a little lost in wiki references. I could be wrong though.

Look what I found on sisi.
Kundalini Manifest

Istvaan Shogaatsu
Caldari
Guiding Hand Social Club
Posted - 2010.11.20 20:03:00 - [744]
 

Originally by: Amann Karris
Originally by: Aedeal
I think we can work out from this something: Amann has never been to W-Space proper or read the Whiskey docs. Try them, they are pretty handy.

Do me a favor; don't assume you know anything about me. Because you're wrong. On both counts. Done with the ad hominems now?

Now, the title of this thread is "Sleepers instead of Rogue Drones?"

Quote:
And Umega: Someone with sense! Let's please work with facts we are presented, not dive off the side along routes that start with the same name.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1261656
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1416225&page=1

What I've been suggesting is to look at the evidence presented, and where possible, corroborating information with other sources.

Is it useful to start with information from other sources? Not really. Start with what's in-game. Back it up with in-game information, and then look elsewhere. What are the links to the Jove? Where is there mention of Enheduanni?

Present the evidence you see as supporting your theories. "What if" arguments are not proof. Answering a question with another question is not proof.

But seeing as how I obviously don't know what I'm talking about, have fun guys! ugh


No need to get all ruffled. I think we're trying to understand the universe, rather than just this thread title. Everything in Eve feels connected, and we're trying to understand the way it works together, and this just happens to be the first thread where a bunch of people got to talking about it - it's like reading a really big book, and guessing what'll happen in the next chapter.

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.20 22:39:00 - [745]
 

Actually, Auwnie, I think it does, in either a greater or lesser degree anyway. I have been studying the fringe of this mystery since I began playing Eve. My first hint that something in Eve was off, was the giant shuttles and hulks floating around the cluster.

I remember asking about it, getting a response of "Giants used to live in New Eden". I laughed it off and put it down to plagarized graphics and a disregard for scale.Laughing

But, the little discrepencies continued to pile up. I filed them away and went on playing. Now, I realize that every stroke on the canvas has been thought through, if just a little bit. And they all add up to a Scooby Doo mystery that I liken to an "Easter Egg" in Eve. Creators love their creation and want them to have a lasting impact on the senses.

All great epics are thought through on a general level even before they are written. Religion, geography, social makeup, etc.. I am trying to get a peek at the Eve Bible and see what the premises are. Then we can begin to see their relevence to the bigger picture.


Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.21 00:12:00 - [746]
 

For instance, if the Eve Gate is not what we believe it to be, what is it? We believe it to be the end of a natural wormhole that was held open by gate technology, but, does it conform to the wormholes we do have experience with? The Reverend Mother flat out states in a chronicle, she is the daughter of one of the first settlers to come through the Eve Gate. If it is not a natural wormhole, where did he\she come from to settle? A star perhaps? The emanations from the Eve gate could be the open portal into the New Eden Star. One certainly wouldn't want to enter that in a spaceship.

We are searching out well hidden pieces to a puzzle meant to be obscure. My endless meandering doesn't mean I subscribe to any one theory, I am just exploring possibilities and clues, whether relevent or not. I hoped mostly by posting to draw others into the debate, hoping for them to drop hints to the puzzle pieces I'm missing.

I have always been of the opinion that we capsuleers are an experiment, not of the Jove, but, of CCP. CCP is amassing a huge database of mmorpg data, why not twist the reality into the story? CCP is the true god we seek to unmask.

Aedeal
Posted - 2010.11.21 12:11:00 - [747]
 

You may laugh at Roga, but I'm beginning to suspect the same. You know that sinking feeling you get when you realise that something has gone horribly wrong? I think the problem here is that we're looking too closely at one part of the story.

If it *is* as big as I think it is, then this is going to be one *hell* of an interesting time ahead. I've got a document in the writing to try and establish facts, I'll then be writing one to try and draw on logic to see how much else can be established.

Oh just so you know: The sleepers are in K-space. We are being watched, monitored, even policed.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2010.11.21 13:00:00 - [748]
 

Im not laughing a Roga. I dont even think he is wrong.Confused

Linkage

I just dont believe in religion.Cool

Roga Dracor
Caldari
Mental Disorders Inc.
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:30:00 - [749]
 

With regards to religion, I'm not even sure religion plays that big a role, other than metaphorically. As a keynote memory kind of thing(I know, that sounds stupid). It is more directed toward this.

The Unity of Mankind with the God Force. Not any particular denomination or faith. A Universal acceptance of what we are. I see it reflected in every religious theme that crops up. The meaning of life, the universe, and everything.

Apathetic Murderer
Posted - 2010.11.21 17:41:00 - [750]
 

Edited by: Apathetic Murderer on 21/11/2010 17:41:16
Hey all, I agree I should mebbe look more at the facts already presented, I din't mean to get anyone ruffled. I just thought the history sounded a little too like Jamyl 's deposer and the elder invasion.

However, you are right... as a lore noob I should perhaps get all the facts first. There's just so much info! you guys are great. My background is in Anthropology... I'll start by pouring over some old books and see if there are more corroborations with Sumerian lore. Perhaps they could lead to in-game clues.

Thanks for not telling me to **** off by they way, this stuff is fascinating me :)


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