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Kryss Stevenson
Caldari
Red Stallion Mercantile and Manufacturing
Posted - 2010.07.10 17:16:00 - [301]
 

I might be way off on this, but could the Bright Star have been a signal to the Rogue Drones to start building the hives and collect the Iso-5? I think most of us have done some of the drone missions… have we ever stopped and wondered why they where building hives? And yes Iso-5 is very unstable and not safe to mine by humans, but drones don’t care, they don’t sleep either. It is quite possible for them to construct a hive to hold enough of it and then mine it constantly.

Sleepers can also refer to people who stay hidden until they are needed, ie. Sleeper agents. Could it be that the ancient races knew that they did not have the technology to do certain things and they probably knew that their societies where coming to an end. We also have clone jumping and even cases of people using someone else’s clone to do things. Could one of them have reprogrammed the new Creodrone drones and no one caught it?

We know that light can be used to transmit data, but it can also be used to trigger events. A certain wavelength with a certain length of time could be a trigger. When the scientists did an analysis of the Bright Star I believe they found that it had no mass or was at least completely black and should not have existed at all.

I know this probably has nothing to do with the current quest to try and translate everything, but it might be an other start point to look from since the emergence of the wormholes was planned on long ago. Maybe the creation of the capsuleers was an other planned event knowing full well what a group of near immortal beings could accomplish.

Anyway that is my thought on this so far.

Terokone
Posted - 2010.07.10 17:32:00 - [302]
 

Originally by: Veryez
After re-reading the details of the Seyllin Incident, I noticed this curious phrase:

"The star's entire magnetic field had re-aligned towards the explosion"

Additionally the Line from the Curse region description:

"Stars bent to our will,Our reach was infinite,Our power incontestable"

*snip*



Since you mentioned the magnetic field of a star and the Seyllin Incident, a mysterious shuttle was found in the Geztic system not long ago. The shuttle is able to be fired upon, but it's virtually invincible. The only thing I didn't do to the shuttle is use ECM against it. It's a Caldari shuttle with the overview title of "None", which basically means "Nothing to see here. Move along."
The description of the shuttle is:
The only thing sensors can make out about this ship is that it has some kind of receiver that interacts with the star’s natural magnetic field. There is one faint life sign, similar to a human in cryogenic stasis.

The only reason why I mention that shuttle here is the fact that the star the shuttle is at is an A0 star, same as all the stars in the Seyllin Incident with the exception of the star in Jovian space... well, CCP space, really.

Either someone's monitoring this star with something onboard a shuttle possibly linked to cryostasis controls and a sleeper agent (so to speak), or something bigger is at work here.

Auwnie Morohe
Posted - 2010.07.10 17:37:00 - [303]
 

Price cheka
I think this is a very good place to ask that question. They come from a static plex in the Minmatar Cosmos constellation. You need a analyzer to open the cans.

The question is will those things help us unravel some more of the sleepers.


khazak mokl
Amarr
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2010.07.10 18:03:00 - [304]
 

Do the pop ups pictures you get when you warp to an annom mean anything or are they just 'fluff'? The reason I ask is the c3 annom ' oruse construct' has a picture of a map with its pop up message. The map has a start point and then 3 further spots linked like acceleration gates inside a dead space pocket.

Something or nothing?

Confused

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2010.07.10 20:18:00 - [305]
 

As long as I am thinking of the same thing you mention. The map graphics is a generic graphics that's used throughout Eve for many different things.

DmD666
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.07.10 22:08:00 - [306]
 

Originally by: Terokone
Originally by: Veryez
After re-reading the details of the Seyllin Incident, I noticed this curious phrase:

"The star's entire magnetic field had re-aligned towards the explosion"

Additionally the Line from the Curse region description:

"Stars bent to our will,Our reach was infinite,Our power incontestable"

*snip*



Since you mentioned the magnetic field of a star and the Seyllin Incident, a mysterious shuttle was found in the Geztic system not long ago. The shuttle is able to be fired upon, but it's virtually invincible. The only thing I didn't do to the shuttle is use ECM against it. It's a Caldari shuttle with the overview title of "None", which basically means "Nothing to see here. Move along."
The description of the shuttle is:
The only thing sensors can make out about this ship is that it has some kind of receiver that interacts with the star’s natural magnetic field. There is one faint life sign, similar to a human in cryogenic stasis.

The only reason why I mention that shuttle here is the fact that the star the shuttle is at is an A0 star, same as all the stars in the Seyllin Incident with the exception of the star in Jovian space... well, CCP space, really.

Either someone's monitoring this star with something onboard a shuttle possibly linked to cryostasis controls and a sleeper agent (so to speak), or something bigger is at work here.


We just tried everything. Webbed, scrammed, ECM'd, and shot at it with all damage types. I even tried talking to it in local. Nothing.

Ivvor
Posted - 2010.07.10 23:17:00 - [307]
 

Regarding the Bright Star. I was under the impression (I read a convincing argument somewhere) that that was the Terran end of the Eve wormhole collapsing/detonating with the light from that event only now reaching us.

It seems a lot of people are interested in collecting information about the W-space stars. Some of the sleeper facilities have observatories and some of the parts and salvage that most interest the empire factions seem to relate to data collected regarding coordinates in time and space.

It's possible this all just relates to the mapping of wormholes in W-space, but perhaps the Sleepers were trying to work out exactly where the W-space stars actually are in relation to the rest of the universe. Perhaps the reason the Sleepers were/are asleep is because they were waiting for the unique light from the Bright Star, a known major observable event in time and space, to reach them and then use it to calibrate their observations and get a fix on the location of all the wormhole stars. That is a project that could conceivably take a VERY long time to complete.

My suspicion is that perhaps the W-space systems are in fact spread throughout the universe with each one appearing in a different galaxy. What we refer to as W-space may in fact be a hub that will ultimately unlock access to many other galaxies for exploitation.

There is some kind of a link between the W-space wormholes and the original Eve wormhole. Perhaps the Eve wormhole was just what the mini-wormholes we find in W-space will eventually become when they stabilise. Perhaps the Sleepers were experimenting with some way to accelerate the stabilisation process.

Nothing is forever and maybe the first settlers to New Eden just unwittingly crossed the Eve wormhole's mass allowance.

I must admit I currently have little hard evidence to back up my theories, but I thought I'd throw them out there anyway as I feel the real solution to this W-space mystery involves and stars in W-space themselves, and not side issues such as whether the Sleepers were Jovian or not.

Something to consider anyway.

Sariton Xavian
Posted - 2010.07.10 23:34:00 - [308]
 

Edited by: Sariton Xavian on 10/07/2010 23:36:53
I have not done the Cosmos missions and as such my knowledge of the ancient races is fairly limited and based on what I see reposted and linked.

It has been basically confirmed that the Jove are linked to what's in W-Space. The Sleepers are probably a previous empire of the Jove (or maybe they were the Talocan? Sleepers fits better).

The thing that doesn't gel for me is Dropbear's hint that the Talocan and Sleepers weren't necessarily active at the same time in what is now W-space. Does that fit with what we know of the ancient races from other sources like Cosmos? I'm also distracted by the fact that neither the Talocan nor the Sleepers were into genetics, which is the shtick of the Jove's that purportedly got them into their predicament of going too far.

It was actually the Takmahl that were into bio-engineering.

I had theories about the Jove being more advanced because they found tech from a more advanced and more ancient source (let's say the Talocan, with the Sleepers being what the Jove became after learning from Talocan tech and possibly falling prey to the same thing the Talocan had beforehand), while all the rest of humanity in New Eden withered through a new dark ages.

I like the idea that there was ancient life in New Eden that did not get here through the Eve gate, and my theory here pins the Talocan as part of that... but does that gel at all with what is known about the ancient races? I sort of get the impression they are assumed to be humanity as it existed in New Eden after coming through the gate, before everything went to hell.

When I look at the ancient races, I see Sleepers and Talocan who we have this modern W-space reference to. The Takmahl, I can only link to the present through the Jove based on the bioengineering angle, but I don't even like this link because it mismatches where everyone's ideas are heading on the Jove probably being the Sleepers. Then there is the Yan Jung who's name and shtick basically says "hi, we're the acenstors of the Caldari lol!"

Wish I had time to run Cosmos and learn more about the ancient races >_<

Eventy One
Magellan Exploration and Survey
Mordus Angels
Posted - 2010.07.11 07:38:00 - [309]
 

The sleepers are masters of virtual reality.
The Sansha's are filled with implants.

I think the sleepers are trying to break back out of the virtual reality they've gotten themselves into.

Now read CONCORD's report - ISHAEKA-0016 all over again.

Aynen
Posted - 2010.07.11 10:28:00 - [310]
 

Originally by: Eventy One
The sleepers are masters of virtual reality.
The Sansha's are filled with implants. I think the sleepers are trying to break back out of the virtual reality they've gotten themselves into. Now read CONCORD's report - ISHAEKA-0016 all over again.
You've got a point there, a network of implants would be no less effective at enduring the ages as a big computer would. The Sanhsa network is modular, not so easily destroyed.

Price cheka
Posted - 2010.07.11 15:31:00 - [311]
 

I think its high time CCP Dropbear gave us a few more crumbs. . .

Very Happy

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.07.11 18:32:00 - [312]
 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 11/07/2010 19:26:29
No thanks, I have just started working on it.

Btw. this tells me that the Sleepers did not download themselves into their drones. In fact, none of these items give any indication to support that idea. On the contrary, somebody (who?) have put limitation on what level on consciousness the AI can achieve which would be highly strange if you were planning to use it as a storage device for human minds.

Though, it still too early to make any conclusions.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.11 20:44:00 - [313]
 

Maybe the isogen-5 was used as catalyst to use the aligned stars for kick-starting the wormhole travel network created once by the sleepers and been failing due to neglect.

Also reading about the emergent stuff and VR and neural interfacing of the sleepers, I was thinking if it could have been that they connected their minds and the whole civilization in a direct manner and out of this connection patterns emerged that developed into sentient entities of their own. And the 'plague' was not so much a virus but emerging entities that took up a life of their own, threatening the Sleeper civilization on a level they themself did not yet understand. The Quarantines were established as attempts to isolate and categorize the different entities emerging and to avoid spreading of them to the "unbound" population.

If not entirely likely, I think it's still a interesting thought. A new sentient entity emerging out of the connection of sentient minds as a separate entity of higher magnitude with it's own personality, will and intentions. Not really like a hive mind but like a brain using brains as neurons and the VR-network and interfacing as neural connections.


The Sleeper drones had their capacity for sentience limited to avoid the spontaneous emergence of sentience and personality that could possibly render them useless as guardians or even cause insanity during their millennium long duty.

Rogue Drones seem to have made that leap from semi-intelligent autonomous entities to sentient entities. So if there's a source for research on free emergent AI, the Drone Regions would be the place.

Ghost Hunter
True Slave Foundations
Shaktipat Revelators
Posted - 2010.07.11 22:52:00 - [314]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Maybe the isogen-5 was used as catalyst to use the aligned stars for kick-starting the wormhole travel network created once by the sleepers and been failing due to neglect.

Also reading about the emergent stuff and VR and neural interfacing of the sleepers, I was thinking if it could have been that they connected their minds and the whole civilization in a direct manner and out of this connection patterns emerged that developed into sentient entities of their own. And the 'plague' was not so much a virus but emerging entities that took up a life of their own, threatening the Sleeper civilization on a level they themself did not yet understand. The Quarantines were established as attempts to isolate and categorize the different entities emerging and to avoid spreading of them to the "unbound" population.

If not entirely likely, I think it's still a interesting thought. A new sentient entity emerging out of the connection of sentient minds as a separate entity of higher magnitude with it's own personality, will and intentions. Not really like a hive mind but like a brain using brains as neurons and the VR-network and interfacing as neural connections.


The Sleeper drones had their capacity for sentience limited to avoid the spontaneous emergence of sentience and personality that could possibly render them useless as guardians or even cause insanity during their millennium long duty.

Rogue Drones seem to have made that leap from semi-intelligent autonomous entities to sentient entities. So if there's a source for research on free emergent AI, the Drone Regions would be the place.


I believe this is the concept your post seems in line with

Friday 007
Posted - 2010.07.12 00:04:00 - [315]
 

I am not a wh-spacer.

I'm no expert in any way.

I've read this thread once, may read it again.

Here are my unproven and most likely wrong theories.

I will make this as simple as I can.

1. Sleepers were here first. Jovians were a faction in the sleeper group. Sleepers went to war with the jovians.

The jovians couldn't destroy the sleepers, so they made a PRISON for them. They trapped them in WH.

But there was a price to pay. The eve gate was destroyed. Jovian empire was cut off from the rest of the universe.

The sleepers couldn't find a way out, but they made contingency plans. aka drones, hibernation, digital uploads, etc.

They harvest isogen-5 for millions/billions of years. Break the prison walls and get their revenge.

2. The sleepers are from earth. After the eve gate died, the earth people tried desperately to get to EVE.

They did all sorts of crazy things, including making WH. They tried and tried to make it.

Eventually they discovered that it might never happen, not in one cycle of human life.

So they made sleepers. Make them do the work necessary to connect EVE to Earth once again.

Some humans decided suspended animation may work to survive this "EVE to Earth" project.

But the Jovians, humans from EVE, found the sleepers first.

Maybe they decided that the "EVE to Earth" project would diminish their power. So they "changed"

the parameters of the project.

3. The sleepers caused the eve gate to crash and burn. The sleepers were from earth and decided to keep EVE all for themselves.

The Jovians in eve didn't like this. So they condemned the sleepers to wh space for all eternity, or as long as they could.

4. The sleepers tried to stabilize the EVE gate and failed. The sleepers are from earth. They made WH and tried to connect back to Earth.

This is just a reversal of theory two.

The elements necessary to move this ccp "story" along :

T3 Strategic Cruisers
All the ancient technologies.
To find the last WH they made, aka their "civilaztion", homeworld.
Once found, do what EVE pod pilots do best. Open fire.

I really don't care if the Jovians are the sleepers, came from them, or made the sleepers.

Mapping the wh sounds good, and that information will be protected better than titans.

I claim no credit for these theories except their in my head.

I took a piece from here and there and smashed them together.

Do whatever you want with it.

I believe the eve gate is involved. Or maybe its just wishful thinking.

Have fun. Fly safe.

Razor Blue
Hyvat Pahat ja Eric
The Polaris Syndicate
Posted - 2010.07.12 02:58:00 - [316]
 

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 11/07/2010 19:26:29
No thanks, I have just started working on it.

Btw. this tells me that the Sleepers did not download themselves into their drones. In fact, none of these items give any indication to support that idea. On the contrary, somebody (who?) have put limitation on what level on consciousness the AI can achieve which would be highly strange if you were planning to use it as a storage device for human minds.

Though, it still too early to make any conclusions.

Jump Drive Control Nexus
Resonance Calibration Matrix

These 2 items indicates that Sleeper drones have very efficient methods of travelling, jump drive. Oddly, their only purpose seems to be to guard the sites found in wspace.

Someone correct me if im wrong but there doesnt seem to be any manufacturing facilities to build sleeper drone hulls in the wspace? And since the drones have jump drives, im going to assume that the drones were build elsewhere and then moved to wspace. Which leads into conclusion that Sleeper drones were not original/first habitants in the wspace. I think it was theorized somewhere in this threadnaught that Sleeper drones were build by Jove.

Apparently Talocans were the first ones in the wspace and the Jove/Sleeper moved in after them. Or Talocans evolved into Jove?

Anyways, Sleepers are tasked to guard something... Is it a prison or treasure they are watching?

Nikilaiki Ruutarhara
Caldari
Project Daedalid
Posted - 2010.07.12 07:56:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara on 27/07/2010 00:56:22

Sariton Xavian
Posted - 2010.07.12 09:17:00 - [318]
 

Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara

The Sleepers, if they did indeed find w-space after the Talocan, would not have had in their "archives" Talocan Technology as an entry. Or would they? What would be the necessity of keeping Talocan ruins within an archive?


I don't think there's anything odd about that at all. They have ruins there to work with. Maybe they learned all they felt they could and archived the sum of it, perhaps to come back and work on it later...

Quote:
We have two out of four races represented in W-space. Why? Why are the Yan Jung not represented, and why aren't the Takmahl? Or, for that matter, the Jovians?


My guess is either the Takmahl or the Sleepers (or both) are previous incarnations of the Jovians. Though even if all 3 are linked that way, which would be a stretch, Yan Jung is still out in the cold.

Quote:

My theoris; Sleeper and Talocan societies were "Pre-Jovian" as is stated in one of the Epic Arcs. I believe the Takmahl were integrated into the Jove at some point later on (Molok the Deceiver being a potential martyr for their cause hehehe). I believe the wormholes are the result of Yan Jung technology.


To me, this sounds like just throwing a bone to the Yan Jung because they've got nothing else :) The Talocan shtick seems more aligned with wormholes than the Yan Jung.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.07.12 09:26:00 - [319]
 

Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 12/07/2010 09:41:29
Originally by: Razor Blue

Jump Drive Control Nexus
Resonance Calibration Matrix

These 2 items indicates that Sleeper drones have very efficient methods of travelling, jump drive. Oddly, their only purpose seems to be to guard the sites found in wspace.

Someone correct me if im wrong but there doesnt seem to be any manufacturing facilities to build sleeper drone hulls in the wspace? And since the drones have jump drives, im going to assume that the drones were build elsewhere and then moved to wspace. Which leads into conclusion that Sleeper drones were not original/first habitants in the wspace. I think it was theorized somewhere in this threadnaught that Sleeper drones were build by Jove.

Apparently Talocans were the first ones in the wspace and the Jove/Sleeper moved in after them. Or Talocans evolved into Jove?

Anyways, Sleepers are tasked to guard something... Is it a prison or treasure they are watching?


Thanks for bringing these items up which I have been speculating in recently.

First, I think I have puzzle piece more: The Sleepers build their drones out of scavenged Talocan technology and perhaps materials from the fullerine gas clouds. THAT is why you see so few Talocan vessels around and for those you do find:
Originally by: Derelict Talocan Vessel

It looks like this ship was gutted, then left to drift.


This also explains why you find Sleeper ship hulls inside the derelict Talocan vessels and why everything fits together when making tech 3 ships; They are from the same source.

I am starting suspect it was material shortage that makes the oldest drones the largest and the new ones the smallest. Also, in the beginning the Sleepers enhanced their drones with Thermoelectrical Catalysts which they either did not have the resources or time to implement in the later versions.

Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.07.12 10:16:00 - [320]
 

One thing that payed notice to during the SOE epic arc, is the mission where the Sleeper drone jumps through spatial rifts to escape. Now that is quite a skill to have.

From the Cartesian Temporal Coordinator, the Resonance Calibration Matrix and the Jump Drive Control Nexus the drones seems to be fully equipped for interstellar travel. Further, these items indicate strongly that the primary function of the drones are not warfare but something to do with scouting and interstellar cartography.

Here is a some of my current thoughts:
The Sleepers digitalized themselves to escape a viral attack. Not downloading themselves into the drones, but into their structures. They build the drones to go and get help. They needed to open wormholes to have help arrive. The Talocans knew that Isogen-5 had this property and the Sleepers acquired this knowledge from them. The Sleeper drones managed to reach known- space and influenced/controlled the rogue drones to start collecting Isogen-5. Isogen-5 blows up and wormholes appear everywhere.

Now, who where the Sleepers expecting to get help from? Themselves, the Jovians, us? Well, maybe not capsuleers as the Sleepers had no knowledge of capsuleers when they devised the plan. Another puzzling thought, while the Sleeper drones primary purpose seem to be scouting they are quite hostile and pretty well at defending the Sleeper sites. Why should the Sleepers prevent people from rescuing them when that was the plan? Maybe because they only trust certain kind of people... the Zephyr is not attacked by Sleeper drones.

Another odd end:
Originally by: Jump Drive Control Nexus

Barely salvageable from the wreck of a Sleeper drone, this device could have been something much more impressive when it was fully functional. In its current state it is almost unrecognizable, having been scratched, burned and even chemically melted. It looks like it was housed next to the drone's power core, which would explain the extreme heat damage it suffered when the drone exploded.

Stranger yet, it almost seems as if it was lined with some kind of triggered-release corrosive. The self-destruct mechanism – if that’s even what it was – only caused so much damage, and the acid didn't burn cleanly through the center of the drive.

Even as a shadow of its former self, it can be combined with other components to form a fully functional warp drive. Being capable of this, even in such a bad state, strongly suggests that the device was capable of other types of more advanced interstellar travel. Why a Sleeper drone was equipped with this level of technology remains a mystery.


With all this advanced technology, somebody makes a faulty self-destruct mechanism on the most important component in the Sleeper drone.

Aynen
Posted - 2010.07.12 11:46:00 - [321]
 

Here's a not unimportant question: Can the enclaves move? (either through jumps or propulsion of some sort)
See if you plan to survive the tooth of time, having a stationary anchor to the physical world seems rather unwise. On top of that, since the drones seem to be geared towards scouting and stellar cartography, why would they need that technology if the sleepers aren't planning to go anywhere?

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.07.12 12:14:00 - [322]
 

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Another odd end:
Originally by: Jump Drive Control Nexus
Stranger yet, it almost seems as if it was lined with some kind of triggered-release corrosive. The self-destruct mechanism – if that’s even what it was – only caused so much damage, and the acid didn't burn cleanly through the center of the drive.

With all this advanced technology, somebody makes a faulty self-destruct mechanism on the most important component in the Sleeper drone.

Maybe the self destruct mechanism isn't faulty at all but is working perfectly for it's intended purpose? Some part of the Nexus is so important they made sure it will never get into anyone's hands. My guess would be a jump coordination library that the Sleepers use instead of cynos. Maybe something entirely different, but I doubt it's malfunctioning.

Roblight
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.07.12 12:17:00 - [323]
 

There is something we also need to consider in this discussion and that is what has happened to the jove? I am not creating a sansha thread but the sansha have taken over a jove station and are occupying their space now.

And we know that the sleepers are in some way related to the jove and were most likely banished to w-space with the use of wh technology because of the jovian disease and since then have not been seen.

So why weren't they ever seen again and whs not propigating throughout k-space? I think that the jove since then have been using their technology to stop any incoming whs into k-space to keep the sleepers out for the most part (anoikis) basically "Quarantine" the infected jove from the rest of them in hopes to keep their race alive. And we know that the jove have wh techonolgy as the sansha found a key component in sleeper navigation technology in a jove ship (Sansha Event).

If my idea above is true then why are whs appearing now? A few possiblities could have happened;
1. Jove have been wiped out via disease or sansha(not my choice)
2. Have left to w-space in an attempt to do what the sleepers have done by transfering their minds into a VR to escape from their disease.

So this is my theory of what is going on. But the one issue that is bugging me is that as I live in w-space I have yet to see a jovian ship or any sign of a jove that has made a trip into sleeper space. So I am now making some big speculation but I am assuming from the names of most eve chronicles/ other info that their is some "hidden path" that will eventually be illuminated (oruze) and could possible lead those in w-space to the home system of sleeper technology where the tech for controling wh creation and the sleeper production is done. At that system I am assuming we will find the jove that have also gone missing from k-space

Richtor Mettle
Cryptic Solutions
Posted - 2010.07.12 15:02:00 - [324]
 

Edited by: Richtor Mettle on 12/07/2010 15:17:21
Edited by: Richtor Mettle on 12/07/2010 15:16:52
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara

I also think that there are three bloodlines for each race who are Capsuleer material to be a very interesting thing.



I've been thinking about this as well. Each of the four races have 3 bloodlines. I've been trying to figure out if the each of the 4 races have 3 distinct bloodlines, or if three of the four are the bloodlines of one of the others. If the former, we would need a lot more information than we have I believe. If the latter, I feel the Sleepers are the main (read: original) race, with the Takmahl, Talocan, and Yan Jung as the bloodlines. If that is true, then the Jove could be an offshoot of one of those three (or all three/four) bloodlines. As would all of the four main races, obviously.

I would be interested in knowing which of the four main races evolved/descended from which (if not all) of the 4 ancient races. That could tell us a number of things.

One other thing. I went to Seyllin the other night and found a wormhole there. Jumped through and the directional scanner picked up a Oruze site. I warped in, cloaked, checked it out then went back to a safe spot and dropped a couple probes and scanned that sector. There were no less than 10 Oruze sites in the sector. I don't know if that is normal, but it got me to thinking: I wonder if they are pointed in a specific direction? Unfortunately, that thought happened after I logged for the night, and that wormhole was ready to collapse.

DmD666
Interwebs Cooter Explosion
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2010.07.12 18:51:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: Richtor Mettle
Edited by: Richtor Mettle on 12/07/2010 15:17:21
Edited by: Richtor Mettle on 12/07/2010 15:16:52
Originally by: Nikilaiki Ruutarhara

I also think that there are three bloodlines for each race who are Capsuleer material to be a very interesting thing.



I've been thinking about this as well. Each of the four races have 3 bloodlines. I've been trying to figure out if the each of the 4 races have 3 distinct bloodlines, or if three of the four are the bloodlines of one of the others. If the former, we would need a lot more information than we have I believe. If the latter, I feel the Sleepers are the main (read: original) race, with the Takmahl, Talocan, and Yan Jung as the bloodlines. If that is true, then the Jove could be an offshoot of one of those three (or all three/four) bloodlines. As would all of the four main races, obviously.

I would be interested in knowing which of the four main races evolved/descended from which (if not all) of the 4 ancient races. That could tell us a number of things.

One other thing. I went to Seyllin the other night and found a wormhole there. Jumped through and the directional scanner picked up a Oruze site. I warped in, cloaked, checked it out then went back to a safe spot and dropped a couple probes and scanned that sector. There were no less than 10 Oruze sites in the sector. I don't know if that is normal, but it got me to thinking: I wonder if they are pointed in a specific direction? Unfortunately, that thought happened after I logged for the night, and that wormhole was ready to collapse.


It's normal. Oruze sites aren't special, as many can spawn in a wormhole as the Wormhole Gods (praise be to them) allow.

Genki SG
Scapegoats
Posted - 2010.07.12 20:14:00 - [326]
 

Edited by: Genki SG on 12/07/2010 20:32:06
I just re-read some stuff on the wiki pages, mostly about the connection of rouge drones to jove and the sleepers. With Eventy One pointing out that the rouge drone structures look like a jove station in construction.
Add to that the oddities of the drones collecting isogen-5, their technoglogy being better than empire tech (where did they get that from? Source: Drone Synaptic Relay Wiring & Drone Coronary Unit), and lastly this item: "Damaged Drone Mind: A rogue drone mind that was once part of a hive. It is severely damaged, but semi-functional. It uses a hologram image interface for communication purposes. For some reason, it depicts a face of a Jovian."

As for the sleeper drones, their Coordinates Database suggests a single destination
"The format and layout of the information within suggests it is a list of three-dimensional coordinates, charting a path to some distant place."
The elusive Homesystem? Jove space (unlikely)? The other end of the Eve Gate? The shining star from years ago?

And last but not least something i find really odd:
There are 2499 WH-systems, why not 2500? Why is it 1 short of a round number?
Is there a system that does not exist for us to know yet? (aka not in the database so we can't get info on it yet)

Thats all i have for now, just wanted to throw it out there for you guys to ponder.

Veryez
Posted - 2010.07.13 03:20:00 - [327]
 

Perhaps I have this all wrong, but CCP Dropbear wrote, “The clue, if you can't quite figure it out, is in the name of the Sleepers.” While most of us think of “sleepers” as one who is asleep, there is also this definition: “a spy planted in advance for future use, but not currently active.”

In the Empyrean Age novel, Jamyl took three years before her clone was awakened and in describing this, Markus said, ”When her ship self-destructed, everything went precisely according to plan. Her toxins injection was painless; the transneural scan, flawless; the transmission of brain state data, perfect…she should have awakened in her clone immediately, as any other capsuleer would have.”

“But when the data arrived, the cortex constructors didn’t begin uploading information to her clone. Instead, they paused, as if unsure of the data they received. We thought the system froze because of some error, but it turns out that…it was rewriting itself….The code that assimilates brain state information and instructs the cortex constructors what neural pathways to create.” Additionally, “We knew exactly how much data should have come from her pod. Checksums figures always arrive first. And what left her pod just before breach was precisely, to the last bit, accurate to our prediction. But what we received was…thousands of times greater…volumes of information more than what we expected. We checked, and triple checked every sequence in the logs…It’s as if the information was tampered with in mid-flight.”

Later on Markus states, “The new Jamyl Sarum directed me to this exact spot in a search grid more than six light years across. Those are the remnants of Terran freighters.”

Compare this to The Vitrauze Project: “Once again into the darkness, and for a moment she could almost feel that wind on her face, as the data that represented who she was failed to cross the river back home.” Lianda knew what to do and how to do it, despite the fact that she was the first known person to enter a wormhole. What happened to Jamyl and Lianda isn’t all that different.

SOE predicted wormholes the day it happened, they too must have known what was happening. They have also build the only ship that the sleepers will not attack. So they aren’t just guardians, they will let the right people pass. They sound more like protectors to me.

Finally look at the words in “World on Fire”, “Of all the people touched by the event they had triggered, theirs was the most humane fate. For neither captain knew that the immense stock of isogen-5 which detonated before their eyes was entangled with numerous stockpiles in even greater quantities, assembled for a very specific purpose, and deliberately scattered throughout the New Eden cluster and beyond. Nor could they know that the ancient race which had placed them there possessed not only a vision beyond the grasp of today's science, but also the technological advancement necessary to realize its potential.” Also in “World on Fire”, Jamyl clearly expects and understands what is happening.

Other unanswered facts, despite the fact that we can understand nothing in the digital language of the sleepers, the Quarantine Area broadcasts a message in local that everyone can read. And while I can’t find it atm, wasn’t there a part of the Quarantine area that was “recently” changed?

Sanshas’ have apparently found out not only how to control wormholes, but have somehow gotten a Jove station. One might assume they have figured out how to use wormholes to get into Jove space. The real question is how did they get that station? If they took it from the Jove, then the Jove might be in far more dire straits then we thought.

Finally, chapter 75 of the Empyrean age is very cryptic, “He was the last living creature aboard a ship that was hurled through Point Genesis, which – contrary to Empire Lore – was not at all what it seemed. If the Jovians could feel hope…then the hope of an entire race was dying along with him…Emotions weeded out of the Jove’s genetics through countless generations of progressive bioengineering, would have given meaning to the sacrifice that this particular ship had made.” I don’t really know how this ties in, only that it does.

Otocinclus
Minmatar
Project Nemesis
Moar Tears
Posted - 2010.07.13 07:41:00 - [328]
 

Hoping that my five hours of reading will yield some good ideas.

From what I've seen, assumed, and gathered, I believe that "Oruze Osobnyk" could possibly mean a "Home for the Infected", or something along those lines. I'll get back to that in a moment.

The Sleepers were supposedly masters of both cryogenesis AND Virtual Reality. Therefore, we could assume that they could not only transfer many, many individual consciousnesses into large databases, which is what I assume the enclaves to be. This could also explain why the enclaves are very well defended, as they are essentially their entire society.

Could the mysterious "Oruze Osobnyk(s)" be locations where the cryogenically preserved bodies of the sleeper society are being held? Is this why these sites are more heavily defended?

Anoikis can be understood as the automatic, eventual death of cells seperated from their original location. In one of his earlier posts, Dropbear "accidentally" referred to W-Space as Anoikis. Could wormhole space have been used as essentially a quarantined prison, where the infected were sent to die?

In another post earlier on in the thread, it was pointed out that there are exactly 2499 WH systems. I did the math myself, and I came up with 2498 personally. That is awfully close to 2500, and therefore very close to being a round number. Why, in an apparently infinite universe, would a number be so incredibly close to an exact, round number? Dropbear, earlier on, showed that the Sleepers apparently are using solar energy, as it is quite reliant.

Could W-Space systems have been created as some sort of collective machine, which was also be used as "Anoikis", a dumping ground for the infected? Could there still be 2 more systems out there that remain undiscovered, that will eventually be found as this storyline progresses? And what could these possibly be? Could they be a connection to Jove space, and therefore progress the "Return of Sansha" events even further?

SOE also produced the Zephyr, which is ignored by Sleepers for some undiscovered reason. The fact that it doesn't use engines for travel, rather "sailing" on solar winds leads me to personally believe that the Sleeper drones are reliant on engine signatures for targeting. However, it could also mean that the SOE, SOCT, etc. know more about the Sleepers than they care to reveal.

It seems that the Isogen-5 was intentionally put in place to reopen the connections to Wormhole space. Could it therefore be possible that the Sleepers, who are now assumed to be active inside of their enclaves as stored conciousness, are in the progress of creating a cure for whatever it is that their physical bodies are infected with? Perhaps the Thukkers that detonated the Isogen-5 had done so too early, and as a result reopened the link to "Anoikis" prematurely.

The Vitrauze Chronicle also proposes an interesting idea, that the four empires and capsuleers have collectively forgotten what actually happened when the Eve Gate collapsed. Perhaps it wasn't a random event, maybe it was closed to prevent the virus from traveling back to our home galaxy. Through their continued study of ancient relics and artifacts, it is possible that the Sisters of Eve have discovered the forgotten truth, which could explain their involvement.

These are my ideas, waiting for CCP Dropbear to drop in soon and either shoot all of it down as lolspeculation, help get me on the right path, or completely ignore it and post some more cryptic, misleading comments.

Cobalt Sixty
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.07.13 08:37:00 - [329]
 

Edited by: Cobalt Sixty on 13/07/2010 10:01:03
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
One thing that payed notice to during the SOE epic arc, is the mission where the Sleeper drone jumps through spatial rifts to escape. Now that is quite a skill to have.

From the Cartesian Temporal Coordinator, the Resonance Calibration Matrix and the Jump Drive Control Nexus the drones seems to be fully equipped for interstellar travel. Further, these items indicate strongly that the primary function of the drones are not warfare but something to do with scouting and interstellar cartography.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one to notice these things. (1, 2)

Also something I wondered about:

A wormhole links Point A in space to point B and vice versa, like this:

"A" O>---- <-Wormhole Tunnel-> -----<O "B"


But now imagine that we somehow break the tunnel:

"A" O>---< *KABOOM* >---<O "B"


Yet, the wormhole (in this case, the EVE Gate) remains. We see a light in the sky, and assume that light is the light from the other end of the wormhole collapse finally reaching us. But if you read here you'll find there is still quite the party of emissions coming out from our end.

Point A and B are intact but no longer are they linked. Interestingly, we still have a wormhole open at our end. Maybe we have some left over tunnel behind it, too. A sort of cylinder with an opening at one end.

|---<O "B"


... and it just so happens that anything that gets close to the open wormhole gets torn to shreds by the local forces. Now, if I were running away from something really scary and wanted to hide, I think a giant hole in space that crushes/burns anything that gets too close would make a nice little bolt hole to duck into, especially if I were an entire civilization that may have decided to digitize itself to make for more convenience in travel packing.

Without re-reading this thread (and others) I half wonder if the "Sleepers" came across something nasty, for example like the Kyonoke Pit speck but not necessarily that, up and ran like hell when they realised they couldn't beat whatever "it" is, blew the EVE Gate in-place to prevent "it" getting back to where we/they came from and then entrenched themselves in their digitised manifestation into what was left of the wormhole tunnel at this end of the break until they figured it'd be safe enough to come out again. Sleeper drones are just the Junk Yard Dog.

Or maybe the EVE Gate was closed because of something at our (Earth) end ... anyay, this is all very interesting reading so far.



Nathan Jameson
Talocan Vanguard
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.07.13 09:09:00 - [330]
 

Originally by: Otocinclus
Otocinclus said stuff.

These are my ideas, waiting for CCP Dropbear to drop in soon and either shoot all of it down as lolspeculation, help get me on the right path, or completely ignore it and post some more cryptic, misleading comments.


Honestly, I don't think that's going to happen. Despite the 11 pages (and counting) in this thread, we keep coming around to the same ideas or conclusions.

Additionally, I suspect one of those two systems is the one the Sansha Nation is currently using. If there is a second Undiscovered Country, I'll bet it's the home of the Sleepers and/or Talocan we have yet to unlock.


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