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blankseplocked Attract People to the game by injection of PLEX-time into skill queue
 
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Elgin Galad
Posted - 2010.05.05 11:01:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Misanthra
Originally by: Elgin Galad
By the way, we do not know so far if CCP would favour such feature at all and at what limitations.

...


They wouldn't favor it. ...



Well, if you say, that it would be imbalanced, because some have billions and billions of ISK, then it already is imbalanced. Buying PLEX to make toons skill in the normal way, or buying PLEX to inject into the skill queue is no difference at all, apart from the period of time inbetween. Both are driven through the ISK vs PLEX market, not by subscription!
So we can tell, CPP will never get any more than the real world currency equivalent from this than the skill time is worth in PLEX (EURO/USD), the difference in this is only in what period of time this will occur.

And if you believe this is sounds like a highly potential risk to the game and it's existence in theory, yes, it is of course, as it is for all games, where ingame generated values can be traded for extending playtime, while the system allows a strong satuartion of such values over time. In words, CCP agrres that the highly value customer of the past may play for free, as long as there are players, who are willing to inject real world values in trade for the ingame values.
That is the way it works right now, ISK are traded for PLEX and many players already have n-accounts where non is payed at by subsription at all, but through generated ingame values (ISK) in trade for real world values (PLEX).

And this will not change in any way, by using PLEX to inject into the skill queue, since there is no difference to that, when it comes to the point where this is already done, but some more slowly when ISK vs PLEX trade is used to play toon accounts for free, because the alts sit on highly valuable ingame resources generating huge amounts of ISK every month!

So, if CCP might say, "Yes, we see a demand, but also want to see such feature not excessivly used to create titan pilots overnight and from this allow PLEX injection to a maximum of 10 or 20 PLEX per character or even only per account", this will not change anything for the so called "donald duck"s in eve, but it would change a lot for players with approx. 1-30 million SP, when it comes to the bigger obstacles in their skill plan.
And I do not see any titan pilots grow for the scratch overnight in there at all.

But in the end, CPP never gets any more or less EURO/USD from the value in skill time, no matter if driven by subscription, driven by ISK vs PLEX trade for playtime, or ISK vs PLEX trade for skill time injection.

Skill time in all cases directly scales into CCPs revenue in any of the cases! There is no, so propagated "CCP will loose lots of EURO this way in the end", at least not from the injection of PLEX into skill queue!

A totally different question to ask is, does the exchange of ingame generated values in trade for playtime create issues for the distributor/developer in long term, and do desaturation mechanics (ISK sink) prevent such issues?
And it may come true, that the only key to this is to make many more new players stay & play, if you do not want to see the PLEX market getting short and highly expensive in long term.

From the numbers, EVE couldn't make for some reason to really make more people stay & play over the past years. The annual growth in active players is kind of a joke and near to non existant when it comes to, how many of them are "free" played toon accounts and how many actually new individuals to EVE paying subscription + maybe buying some PLEX to trade for ISK.

But this opens another, partially different topic to what is the game missing for "brand new customers" (0-90 days playtime) from it's content. And that is definitively not to answer by simply putting all learning skills to V as a starter pack.
There is some more missing in EVE than that, when it comes to what attracts people to the game and what distracts them and makes them quit!

So, I do disagree with your point of view Wink

Elgin Galad
Posted - 2010.05.05 11:27:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Ugly Eric
Biggest problem imho would be, that big rich alliances would create new titan alts overnight. It would not cost a single cent EURO, but ISK, due one can buy a PLEX from market with ISK.

That would be a wery debalancing thing inside eve. Some of us struggles to make isk due the fact that have not chosen to fly caldari (or gallente)from beginning, and therefore cannot run solo 0.0 plexes. This feature would most certainly add even more overpopulated caldari playerbase than it currently is.

Besides the proble is, that one could create with EURO a account/char overnight, that can easily ***** the isk back from market/mining/PvE whatever... So actually after few months peak, CCP would propably loose a wery large bunch of EURO.

Third and prolly the biggest problem IMO would be, that one would be able to create on single accounts 3 extremely high skillpointed characters to 3 different tasks, and all of this... overnight. So then people would haveto loose their alts, due there would not be so much use to them anymore. And again CCP would loose Euro. And a lots of Euro.

This really is altogether a bad idea. One of the mainattractions to eve is the fact, that you dont haveto grind in the forests of fantasyland (tm) for a month to be able to start playing. In eve, one can sit home on the sofa, wathing **** from tv and return after the month of training and the character still has improved. I dunno so much about them other MMO's, only tried WoW for about 2 hours and the ritually burned the package, the disc and all of the sh!t that came with it. I am a working man, so I dont have the time to sit in the forests of fantasyland killing hundreds of thousands of wolves (identical all of them) and find that "hey this wolf had 3 silvercoins and 2 bronzecoins hidden in its fur", or "This wolf has a new axe with +3 to battlestanze and to my idiocy".

Sorry, got away from the topic :p

Ugly Eric


I like that phrase, where it comes to "This wolf has a new axe with +3 to battlestanze and to my idiocy" Laughing

Nice!

But to your comment, I would not see if there will be any titan pilots come from the scratch over night, when CPP decides to implement such feature but limit it in some way to a maximum possible PLEX injections into the skill queue on a per character or even on a per account base. But this is more a question of balance, not about if and under which circumstances such feature could or could not be valuable to customers after all.

In fact, I have not see of such arguments in this direction so far in this thread...

I only read sort of extrem point of views so far, expecting excessive use of ISK vs PLEX trade or EURO/USD vs PLEX trade, resulting in, "stuff the skill queue to it's maximum with PLEX".

If that is an issue, we would have to realise, EVE would already have an inherent long term issue along with ISK vs PLEX trade for generating additional, free playtime for the ones who do trade their ISK for PLEX exactly for this reason, as long as the number of active players keeps stagnating as low as is over the past years; because they all become potentially able to trade ISK for PLEX after some certain skill time and this might dramatically short the avaiability of PLEX sooner or later then.


eliminator2
Gallente
Vindicated Blast.
Posted - 2010.05.05 11:30:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Elgin Galad
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Quote:
CCP would not loose anything from allowing to add PLEX into the skill queue as an option, since this time was never played and from this has even a greater value for CCP, because it did not consume server traffic and CPU time as the played time would have when played regulary. So such additional option could become quite benificial for CCP.


Wrong. They would lose a lot of players.


Well argumented? But I am missing the argumentation in some way. So tell us, why would CCP "lose a lot of players" then, if they can skill just the same way as if they would have stayed docked for month paying without playing at the very same result of skill points, while CCP will earn the same amount of EURO when allowing to inject PLEX time into the skill queue, whithout making players skilling without playing for month, ending up with exactly the same amount of skill points in the end?
In both cases a charakter ends up with the very same amount of skill points of the same amount of EURO payed towards CCP (Iceland is a EURO country!), where in the case where a player had to wait for some month might have left and started playing some else game, and in the scenario where PLEX time was injected into the skill queue, the player might possibly stay at EVE and actually start playing the game for perhaps some longer than just 3 month?

Where is the part of many players quiting EVE in this scenario? Perhaps you might want to explain some more of your thougths about this topic?!


considering the players that have been playin for 03 would meen that there time spent all these years tainin would go to waist because people would just buy plex's with isk and inject it gaining months of skill training in a few minuits

Elgin Galad
Posted - 2010.05.05 11:54:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: eliminator2
Originally by: Elgin Galad
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
Quote:
CCP would not loose anything from allowing to add PLEX into the skill queue as an option, since this time was never played and from this has even a greater value for CCP, because it did not consume server traffic and CPU time as the played time would have when played regulary. So such additional option could become quite benificial for CCP.


Wrong. They would lose a lot of players.


Well argumented? But I am missing the argumentation in some way. So tell us, why would CCP "lose a lot of players" then, if they can skill just the same way as if they would have stayed docked for month paying without playing at the very same result of skill points, while CCP will earn the same amount of EURO when allowing to inject PLEX time into the skill queue, whithout making players skilling without playing for month, ending up with exactly the same amount of skill points in the end?
In both cases a charakter ends up with the very same amount of skill points of the same amount of EURO payed towards CCP (Iceland is a EURO country!), where in the case where a player had to wait for some month might have left and started playing some else game, and in the scenario where PLEX time was injected into the skill queue, the player might possibly stay at EVE and actually start playing the game for perhaps some longer than just 3 month?

Where is the part of many players quiting EVE in this scenario? Perhaps you might want to explain some more of your thougths about this topic?!


considering the players that have been playin for 03 would meen that there time spent all these years tainin would go to waist because people would just buy plex's with isk and inject it gaining months of skill training in a few minuits


Let me see, a player startet at 2003 bought subscriptions equivalent to the playtime of let's say around 89 PLEX. Now, just to put to the extrem, a new player comes, buys 89 PLEX from CCP and ijects it into the skill queue to gain exactly the same amount of skill points as the one playing since 2003 has.

So, both have payed with real world values (EURO/USD) for an equivalent of 89 PLEX playtime. One has also consumed server traffic over the past 7 years, the other hasn't clearly much, apart from the few minutes since account creation, just to stay with this extrem scenario.

Well, an extrem scenario, but...

What you say now is, the one playing since 2003 has skill points of an equivalent of 89 PLEX playtime now, and that is not valuable anymore?

No, let me try to ask this a different way, just to get it...

What you say now is, the customer that has payed for an equivalent of 89 PLEX playtime is a more or less valuable customer than the one who has payed for an equivalent of 89 PLEX playtime?

Well, ...

???

Really? Rolling Eyes

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.05.05 12:11:00 - [35]
 

As somone already stated a fully maxed out character would have nothing to look forward to if they have everything trained though.

It only costs a measly fully fitted titan, and there are alot of people who have that sort of wealth, its not as rare as you think it is.

Tarhim
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.05 12:21:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Elgin Galad

What you say now is, the customer that has payed for an equivalent of 89 PLEX playtime is a more or less valuable customer than the one who has payed for an equivalent of 89 PLEX playtime?



Yes, customers that spend time buying service constantly from company for last 7 years is more valuable to company which doesn't operate on "pump and dump" principle that customer who just purchased service for equal value one-clicking option in online store.

CCP gets it, so EVE did not follow many other MMOs into graveyard. You do not get it, as you prove it over and over in this thread.

I don't think you should expect any, even limited, implementation of "your" idea.

Elgin Galad
Posted - 2010.05.05 12:50:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Elgin Galad on 05/05/2010 12:50:37
Originally by: Tarhim
Originally by: Elgin Galad

What you say now is, the customer that has payed for an equivalent of 89 PLEX playtime is a more or less valuable customer than the one who has payed for an equivalent of 89 PLEX playtime?



Yes, customers that spend time buying service constantly from company for last 7 years is more valuable to company which doesn't operate on "pump and dump" principle that customer who just purchased service for equal value one-clicking option in online store.

CCP gets it, so EVE did not follow many other MMOs into graveyard. You do not get it, as you prove it over and over in this thread.

I don't think you should expect any, even limited, implementation of "your" idea.


Actually we all know, many of then trade ISK vs PLEX, and did not pay subscription for already a long time. This works, as long as there are enough PLEX on the market, stuffed into there mostly by players with little SP and also little ingame income.

That much about the so valuable customer playing since 2003, that hold their hands on ingame ISK generating resources, to make them actually play for "free" already for a long time, as is part of the game for many of the "older characters".

One thing your comment shows up very clearly, you did not get it all! Laughing

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2010.05.05 12:51:00 - [38]
 

Absolutely 'NO' to buying skill progression.

There are people who have put years into the game to skill up to where they are, and the OP wants to simply buy his way there.

Anyone who thinks that they can't play until they have months of skills is doing it wrong!

Tarhim
Caldari
Posted - 2010.05.05 12:59:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Elgin Galad

Actually we all know, many of then trade ISK vs PLEX, and did not pay subscription for already a long time.



Actually, they did. Only with someone else's real money.

Quote:

This works, as long as there are enough PLEX on the market, stuffed into there mostly by players with little SP and also little ingame income.



Whoever gets PLEX to market is not really revelant. They are a way to get isk for real money in legit way and you do not really have any insight who buys them and why.

Quote:

That much about the so valuable customer playing since 2003, that hold their hands on ingame ISK generating resources, to make them actually play for "free" already for a long time, as is part of the game for many of the "older characters".



Yes, they are very valuable customers. Much better than the same amount of people dumping real money into plexes, going into game and leaving after three months.

You still do not get it. You may get it in time, but so far you just don't want to.


Erich Herrmann
Posted - 2010.05.05 13:04:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Erich Herrmann on 05/05/2010 13:04:58

You're a good arguer. I give you that. And I feel bad for stooping to such a level, but: your suggestion sucks.

The fact that, of the 21 people who have replied to your suggestion, not one has supported it should be enough to tell you that it's a bad idea. It would p**s off more people than it would benefit and you seem to be incapable of seeing any point of view, other than your own.

The biggest issue, that you seem incapable of grasping, is that you're artificially creating SP. You're artificially injecting it into EVE. This goes against one of the main mechanics in EVE. You cannot magic it out of thin air.

You CANNOT simply create this SP because, as you have said, SP has a value in ISK, thus you'll be injecting ISK into EVE's economy. You cannot relate ISK for PLEX to SP for PLEX because the ISK is already there, whereas the SP isn't.

Please. Just drop it.

Elgin Galad
Posted - 2010.05.05 13:40:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Elgin Galad on 05/05/2010 15:04:56
Originally by: Erich Herrmann
Edited by: Erich Herrmann on 05/05/2010 13:04:58

You're a good arguer. I give you that. And I feel bad for stooping to such a level, but: your suggestion sucks.

The fact that, of the 21 people who have replied to your suggestion, not one has supported it should be enough to tell you that it's a bad idea. It would p**s off more people than it would benefit and you seem to be incapable of seeing any point of view, other than your own.

The biggest issue, that you seem incapable of grasping, is that you're artificially creating SP. You're artificially injecting it into EVE. This goes against one of the main mechanics in EVE. You cannot magic it out of thin air.

You CANNOT simply create this SP because, as you have said, SP has a value in ISK, thus you'll be injecting ISK into EVE's economy. You cannot relate ISK for PLEX to SP for PLEX because the ISK is already there, whereas the SP isn't.

Please. Just drop it.

No! I do not drop something, because of 20 of around 40+k active logins spam in the forum, they do not want this to become happen, no matter if restricted to some value or not, because they will cry and quit if anyone gets their hands on the same amount of SP for the very same real world money.
Who are you 20 people then? Are you in any sense representiv for 40+ k players?
In what way do represent them in absolut numbers? You are about what? About 0.05 % of 40,000 players? You must be kidding!Rolling Eyes

And PLEX is not "artificially creating SP"!

I also did not state SP has a fixed value in ISK, I stated "skill time scales directly with PLEX" (playtime). This is far from being the same thing.
The case where ISK scales in some way to that is, if traded as ISK for PLEX; but the scale is determined by the ISK value of a PLEX on the market, which varies.

So, you either did not understand the topic, or just mixed terms in a random fashion. I cannot tell!

And again, a PLEX injected into the skill queue in exchange for "skill time", and a PLEX injected into "playtime extension" do result in the very exact same effect.
Both create a defined and fixed number of skill points in relation to the attribute distribution of a character! One does over time, the other does for a direct time equivalent of "skill time" in the skill queue.

Very simple and easy to understand, and there is no doubt about what this does to the total skill points in the end.

I honestly cannot tell what part for this you could not understand after all! Or is it just trolling? Wink



Btw... did you really read this posting before you stated, that all in here completly dislike the idea?

Originally by: Aqriue
I don't think buying time is a good idea, except for basic support skills. Training several months to max capacitor, shield/armor (I hate resist compensation skills ugh), navigation skills, PG, and CPU to 5 keeps killing any desire to start a second account right now for me. Its not much different then other MMOs where you hate starting out with nothing in the newbie levels. And I don't like the idea of buying another character as stated, your stuck with the possibility of a horrible name and reputation which doesn't personalize it for me. I would pay 3-4 months worth of sub just to start with those and no learning skills Rolling Eyes


So, worth 3-4 month subscription for some specific of the basic skills? Exclamation

Elgin Galad
Posted - 2010.05.05 13:55:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Tarhim
Originally by: Elgin Galad

Actually we all know, many of then trade ISK vs PLEX, and did not pay subscription for already a long time.


Actually, they did. Only with someone else's real money.


I see! This makes them become very very extra valuable customers indeed! In fact they might become the ultimate customer this way! Idea

Originally by: Tarhim

Quote:

This works, as long as there are enough PLEX on the market, stuffed into there mostly by players with little SP and also little ingame income.



Whoever gets PLEX to market is not really revelant. They are a way to get isk for real money in legit way and you do not really have any insight who buys them and why.

Quote:

That much about the so valuable customer playing since 2003, that hold their hands on ingame ISK generating resources, to make them actually play for "free" already for a long time, as is part of the game for many of the "older characters".



Yes, they are very valuable customers. Much better than the same amount of people dumping real money into plexes, going into game and leaving after three months.

You still do not get it. You may get it in time, but so far you just don't want to.




You made my day! I have learned so much right now! So much... I am overwhelmed... in some way... really! Wink


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