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blankseplocked [Star Fraction] The opening of TAZ Norlonto : Freeport YWS0-Z
 
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Alveolus
Core Synthesis Unlimited
Posted - 2010.05.03 17:42:00 - [31]
 

CSS Eurynome, Impel-class Transport Vessel
System: Chiga; Constellation: Charak; Region: Genesis


Once again, I find myself offering my deepest congratulations to the freecaptains of the Star Fraction on another truly noteworthy achievement. It seems not two minutes since I was last here on this Summit, offering similar congratulations on the acquisition and deployment of The Black Plan, and even then I feared the Outpost dream may well have been just that. Yet here we are, exceeding my wildest dreams and expectations once again.

I look forward to visiting TAZ Norlonto soon and hopefully helping in my own small way to allow the dream to persist.

To the stars.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.03 18:14:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 03/05/2010 15:49:17

Originally by: Furb Killer

So you are saying ...


Random bla bla evading the question (like usual) and finding reasons why you shouldnt answer the question



That wasnt the question.

A SF member said basicly that if a random new neutral pilot goes to providence and doesnt have blue status with all the nbsi friends of SF he failed at communicating. Yet that is pretty much saying you failed for not putting a jump drive in a shuttle, it just isnt possible to do it.

Grr
Amarr
Imperial Retirement Home
Posted - 2010.05.03 18:24:00 - [33]
 

Ahh excellent. I was planning on deploying an outpost here myself one day. Thank you Star Fraction, this saves me the trouble.


Chungito
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.05.03 18:42:00 - [34]
 

Along with my congratulations, I offer the freecaptains two words of advice:

First: Due to Matari design philosophies, pluming is not a priority design feature on Minmatar outposts and as such, the septic systems on decks 21 through 27 empty not into a water treatment plant, but actually flow back into the fresh water reserves! We found this out the hard way, hopefully I have saved you the embarrassment of some uncommonly bad breath.

Second: Do whatever you can to never let this beacon of freedom fall into tyranny's hands, it's a pain in the a$$ to get it back.

Revan Neferis
Amarr
Propaganda Due
Posted - 2010.05.03 18:54:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Chungito
First: Due to Matari design philosophies, pluming is not a priority design feature on Minmatar outposts


Actually I take back my words

Originally by: Revan Neferis
I'll even allow myself to step inside a minmatar station to make yet another home for us.


Jade, I think that our luxurious suite at G-5 Amarrian Outpost is more the enough for us. It's a short 2, 3 jumps anyways so , you know...

* She sighs and shuts off the comms *

Revan Neferis
Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign
Sani Sabik

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.03 20:56:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
whine, whinge, bleat, cringing nonsensical froth


I'm sorry I don't speak invertebrate could you try to use the language of something with a backbone in the future.

(not nice when people change your quotes is it?)

Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.03 21:00:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Revan Neferis

Now, more than ever, congratulations for daring to dream. Prepare our suite there with care my beloved. In your honour I'll even allow myself to step inside a minmatar station to make yet another home for us.


Don't listen to the rumours, the quality of building material is fine and the quarters luxurious and impressive in evocatively steampunk way. You'll find it delicious I assure you love.


Ehrine Ashbark
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.03 21:01:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Chungito
Along with my congratulations, I offer the freecaptains two words of advice:

First: Due to Matari design philosophies, pluming is not a priority design feature on Minmatar outposts and as such, the septic systems on decks 21 through 27 empty not into a water treatment plant, but actually flow back into the fresh water reserves! We found this out the hard way, hopefully I have saved you the embarrassment of some uncommonly bad breath.



Having helped deploy ISS Calico and ISS Serenity, both Matari designed, followed with being responsible for the general running of these two outposts, I had already been made aware of that progblem. Given that I was actually in charge of deploying this one, I took the liberty of tweaking the specs a little before launching.

Thanks anyway for the warning. If you know of anything else I might have missed however, do let me know.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.03 21:09:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Furb Killer
whine, whinge, bleat, cringing nonsensical froth


I'm sorry I don't speak invertebrate could you try to use the language of something with a backbone in the future.

(not nice when people change your quotes is it?)


You keep managing to impress me with your detailed responses that are right to the point and no ad hominem arguments.


Jade Constantine
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.03 21:16:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer

You keep managing to impress me with your detailed responses that are right to the point and no ad hominem arguments.


I'm a great fan of ad hominen argument.
I consider it a vital tool of IGS debate.

If you think otherwise then you've a funny way of showing it.

Mazca Lopez
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.03 21:27:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
So you are saying that some random free pilot not bound to an standing enclosurism corporation or alliance can negotiate a blue status with daisho syndicate, agony, solidas, etc? Well maybe they can, if they pay them alot, but i didnt know that that was your idea of freespace.



We cant and wont Speak for those corporations Furb, Your assumption is just that, an assumption. If anyone is refused access to space by any entity, and you can't negotiate with them, terrorize them, join forces with others that shares your desire and make those that would deny you passage or use pay dearly. Bleed them to death or submission, or force them back to the negotiation table. There is now a beacon of light and freedom burning bright in YWSO-Z as a reminder that it is a fight worth fighting.

Sykes
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.03 22:28:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Sykes on 03/05/2010 22:45:35

The TAZ part stands for 'Temporary Autonomous Zone' a neat idea taken from ancient texts and realised anew. A provisional and temporary free-space created in the interstices of the status quo. A dissident space that takes advantage of a set of conditions that just happen to let a different way of doing things occur for a while. If you think it's cool, then make the most of it while it exists.

Of course it's not perfect, and of course it doesn't solve every problem. I'd suggest that it's best to be realistic about these things. Complaining that it doesn't represent an instantaneous conversion of New Providence to NRDS and freespace is just stupid.

If you'd prefer the status quo, then there are plenty of places in New Eden where you can find that, so why not go there and celebrate your dull conformity instead of whingeing about people trying to do something that's an exception to the boring norm.

D melanogaster
Minmatar
The Fruit Flys
Posted - 2010.05.03 23:59:00 - [43]
 

Thank you for the explanation Mengan and Sykes. I will be there in the near future to anchor bubbles off the undock point. I do hope that you do not destroy my property as they are not going to be harming anyone.

Micia
Minmatar
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.05.04 01:57:00 - [44]
 

Who do I have to talk to, to open a tab at a bar here? Just wonderin' cos I been cut off, down 9UY way. Embarassed

I'll drink a few to cheer a new Star Fraction milestone! Razz

Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar
Fates Assembly
The Final Stand.
Posted - 2010.05.04 01:58:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: D melanogaster
Thank you for the explanation Mengan and Sykes. I will be there in the near future to anchor bubbles off the undock point. I do hope that you do not destroy my property as they are not going to be harming anyone.


I am no longer surprised by the bravado of useless forum jockey jellyfish…how sad is that?

On a Tomahawk Bliss note,

If you attempt to trap me I will obliterate such interdictions and their source. Interdictors, Drag bubbles, Disruptors, bumping off gates, any attempt to trap me for aggression will net you my focused attention. I don't care otherwise what you do in your reaper.

If you aggress my actions within the radius of my fall-off your assets will be liquidated, with out notification.

I may generally ignore your type but that does not mean I am unaware of your situation. I am not oblivious to the fact that you have nothing of personal capability or deed by which to attain respect and so must leech from Star Fraction notoriety. its a typical failing of your kind.

Due to this I do understand why you might want to have something with your name on it near this outpost.

don't impugn the freedom of the Temporary Autonomous Zone and its patrons and you will get no issue from me.

feel free to anchor a Canister that says "Forum Mouth Melangoaster was here and I almost had a heart attack undocking for once".

-or-

Make a pattern with deployed bubbles in the form of your spirit guide (spineless jellyfish).

-or-

Drop a Tower at one of the numerous Moons and name it "This is my basement where I FTL communicate"

I will not destroy them as long as they don't infringe on me and mine

...though if you are red, you're dead. pigglet.

zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.05.04 06:34:00 - [46]
 

Congratulations.
Deploying into the smoking debris of a warzone :)

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.04 07:19:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Merdaneth on 04/05/2010 07:39:36
Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss
If you attempt to trap me I will obliterate such interdictions and their source. Interdictors, Drag bubbles, Disruptors, bumping off gates, any attempt to trap me for aggression will net you my focused attention.


Ah, but mr. Bliss, these would not be placed to trap you, but to trap other hostiles. Rest assured you will not be fired upon while trapped. However, D Melanogaster could of course be held responsible for others that fire upon you while you are held.

Star Fraction notables like The Cosmopolite have repeatedly maintained that deploying a warp bubble is not considered an act of aggression. If you open fire at a neutral bubble, you would be destroying a neutral's property and would violate SF NRDS policy and would need to reimburse said bubble.

Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss

don't impugn the freedom of the Temporary Autonomous Zone and its patrons and you will get no issue from me.


It seems to me that the use of any warp disruption bubbles is a clear restriction of freedom of movement in the TAZ and should be considered disallowed by Star Fraction where there is undue risk of catching neutrals. This will of course need to include placement by SF herself and her allies. That would seem to me a much wiser policy than SF's earlier one, and reduce the risk of being called a hypocrite.

It would be even more practical if SF restricted use of bubbles to themselves and perhaps those they are allied with and considered unauthorized bubble placement by neutrals acts of aggression, much like you do.

Impressive achievement on the speed of deployment of the new outpost.

Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.04 07:34:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Darveses on 04/05/2010 07:37:53
Originally by: Merdaneth
Edited by: Merdaneth on 04/05/2010 07:20:21

Star Fraction notables like The Cosmopolite have repeatedly maintained that deploying a warp bubble is not considered an act of aggression. If you open fire at a neutral bubble, you would be destroying a neutral's property and would violate SF NRDS policy and would need to reimburse said bubble.


Yeah, it's just that "The Fruit Flys" will no longer be neutrals by the time D gets together the skills for deloying a warp bubble.

And real neutrals, without the hidden agenda of their masters written on their foreheads, usually don't deploy warpbubbles on undock points, do they?

Originally by: Merdaneth


Impressive achievement on the speed of deployment of the new outpost.



Thank you.

Tomahawk Bliss
Minmatar
Fates Assembly
The Final Stand.
Posted - 2010.05.04 08:30:00 - [49]
 


oh merdaneth, sweet simple merdaneth.

your presumption on trying to tell me how to be me is hilarious fallacy. feel free to try and aggress me with troll posts as your shield and see how long it holds out against my trigger finger.

by the way, feel free to crawl out of what ever rock you are curled under and come visit.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.04 08:36:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Darveses
Edited by: Darveses on 04/05/2010 07:37:53
Originally by: Merdaneth
Edited by: Merdaneth on 04/05/2010 07:20:21

Star Fraction notables like The Cosmopolite have repeatedly maintained that deploying a warp bubble is not considered an act of aggression. If you open fire at a neutral bubble, you would be destroying a neutral's property and would violate SF NRDS policy and would need to reimburse said bubble.


Yeah, it's just that "The Fruit Flys" will no longer be neutrals by the time D gets together the skills for deloying a warp bubble.

And real neutrals, without the hidden agenda of their masters written on their foreheads, usually don't deploy warpbubbles on undock points, do they?



Although i have my doubts if SF wont set me red just because of some critical questions, (or however jade is going to spin it), why wouldnt a real neutral do that? Remember a real neutral will be shot by all your allies. Now that is all fine and dandy because you want those real neutrals to defend themselves. That includes bubbling your undock to pre-emptively kill them.

(Granted my plan was more of a pull bubble on the station alligned for the gate to UK space).

Would be nice if someone for a change could give a serious answer instead of random troll: Lets assume i do that and you havent found a good reason yet to set me red, what is SF going to do? I assume you wont attack my precious bubble, but will you give intel to UK about it? Will you if the occasion happens probe me down so UK (or others) can kill me? Support them with logistics?

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.04 09:37:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Darveses

And real neutrals, without the hidden agenda of their masters written on their foreheads, usually don't deploy warpbubbles on undock points, do they?



What about someone who's mutually neutral with you, but has someone who's red to them docked up?


Mazca Lopez
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.04 09:54:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
[W]hat is SF going to do? I assume you wont attack my precious bubble, but will you give intel to UK about it? Will you if the occasion happens probe me down so UK (or others) can kill me? Support them with logistics?


We do not pass intel on neutrals to blues, we don't get involved if neutrals attempt to defend themselves against blues and the same goes the other way around.


Sable Schroedinger
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2010.05.04 09:59:00 - [53]
 

You guys are really tiresome, you know that? Of course you do, its the only power you're able to project. Annoyance through pointless questions with obvious answers.

But here goes: Assuming you are neutral to us at the time and are present, no we will not pass on intel/interfere. Disputes between you and U’K or anyone else are matters between you and they. End of.

However, our policies are not something to be gamed or manipulated to your benefit and paint us into an unrealistic corner or dead end of stupidity. They are not some simplistic drone AI to be manipulated for your own advantage. We know it vexes you that we will not be so suicidal, but there you go. This does not mean we’re inconsistent or hypocritical as I’m sure you’re leaping to cry out to the masses at large, it simply means we’re capable of thinking both pragmatically and at a deeper level than some rock pool one cell life form.

You drop your bubble and man it, and you’ll be left in peace. Someone may well ask you polity to remove it or to drop it temporarily, but that will be a simple request of courtesy should it be causing them a problem. If its felt that you’re doing it as a wilful campaign of irritation and endangerment to our assets, whilst trying to game our ROE to gain immunity to the consequences of your actions, then you may be called on to face those consequences.
If you leave it there and go somewhere else, well then it may be seen as a hazard to our shipping and you may be called back with a request to remove it (assuming we know it was you), failing which if it is a great enough hazard it may be destroyed. None of this is, despite the triumph rising in your minds, contradicts anything that’s been said before. It just means you’ve taken a sound bite understanding of what has been said and wilfully misunderstood the underlying ideal. Remember, we have said both that we do not consider being caught in someone’s bubble to be aggression in and of itself, but also that we do not consider someone blowing up one of our bubbles (particularly one abandoned in space/unmanned) in order to protect their assets to be aggression either. If someone attacks it whilst we’re there without requesting we take it down, we may not be kindly disposed to that person with maybe some later consequence, but we would not count it as aggression under our ROE.

This isn’t a game for you to dig for loop holes in the mechanics to exploit for your own ends.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.04 10:24:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Darveses

Yeah, it's just that "The Fruit Flys" will no longer be neutrals by the time D gets together the skills for deloying a warp bubble.


I guess it is a possible strategy to set everyone to red without the option of diplomacy if they oppose you on the IGS (like Fruit Flys or myself) while conducting negotations with those who do actually shoot you but do not oppose you on the IGS (like the Daisho Syndicate) while simultanously trying to maintain here that only actions 'in space' really matter. It would be highly odd, twisted and hypocritical to do so, but certainly possible.

Originally by: Darveses
And real neutrals, without the hidden agenda of their masters written on their foreheads, usually don't deploy warpbubbles on undock points, do they?


I am happy you have come around to my point of view concerning some neutrals might be merely 'unregistered hostiles' rather than real neutrals instead of ascribing to ms. Constantine rants of 'a neutral is a neutral is a neutral!'.

I'm also quite happy that Star Fraction members are starting to jump at shadows, and are considering any suspicious neutral an agent of some hidden master with an agenda. This kind of paranoid behaviour will be a large contributor to shaping your vision of FreeSpace.

You are taking your first steps into a greater world and will need to grow up fast.

Merdaneth
Amarr
Defensores Fidei
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2010.05.04 10:42:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
However, our policies are not something to be gamed or manipulated to your benefit and paint us into an unrealistic corner or dead end of stupidity. They are not some simplistic drone AI to be manipulated for your own advantage.


You have ideal, you have principles. From those you create a policy. I have maintained for a long time that those principles don't form a viable base for a realistic society. Star Fraction members said they do.

Each time you need to adapt your policies and they drift further and further away from your ideals and principles, you will be proving my point. Either you become like me, or your principles collapse under sustained pressure.

If it is more effective for me have a neutral anchor a few bubbles to change SF policies rather than shoot at SF ships, then of course I will have a neutral anchor a few bubbles.

You seem to have forgotten why you fight. You should be fighting for a revolution. Not a revolution of ships, but one of ideals, thoughts, memes, culture. Me destroying your ship or you destroying mine is, considering the amounts of isk available to us and the effect such has on either of our ideals, of little consequence.

Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
You guys are really tiresome, you know that?


Yes, and perhaps not too long from now you will grow so tired that you will give up completely. Being principled and staying true to your ideals, defending them in the face of opposition *is* tiring work. Certainly more tiring than shooting a couple of ships in space.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.04 10:49:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Sable Schroedinger
You guys are really tiresome, you know that? Of course you do, its the only power you're able to project. Annoyance through pointless questions with obvious answers.

But here goes: Assuming you are neutral to us at the time and are present, no we will not pass on intel/interfere. Disputes between you and U’K or anyone else are matters between you and they. End of.

However, our policies are not something to be gamed or manipulated to your benefit and paint us into an unrealistic corner or dead end of stupidity. They are not some simplistic drone AI to be manipulated for your own advantage. We know it vexes you that we will not be so suicidal, but there you go. This does not mean we’re inconsistent or hypocritical as I’m sure you’re leaping to cry out to the masses at large, it simply means we’re capable of thinking both pragmatically and at a deeper level than some rock pool one cell life form.

You drop your bubble and man it, and you’ll be left in peace. Someone may well ask you polity to remove it or to drop it temporarily, but that will be a simple request of courtesy should it be causing them a problem. If its felt that you’re doing it as a wilful campaign of irritation and endangerment to our assets, whilst trying to game our ROE to gain immunity to the consequences of your actions, then you may be called on to face those consequences.
If you leave it there and go somewhere else, well then it may be seen as a hazard to our shipping and you may be called back with a request to remove it (assuming we know it was you), failing which if it is a great enough hazard it may be destroyed. None of this is, despite the triumph rising in your minds, contradicts anything that’s been said before. It just means you’ve taken a sound bite understanding of what has been said and wilfully misunderstood the underlying ideal. Remember, we have said both that we do not consider being caught in someone’s bubble to be aggression in and of itself, but also that we do not consider someone blowing up one of our bubbles (particularly one abandoned in space/unmanned) in order to protect their assets to be aggression either. If someone attacks it whilst we’re there without requesting we take it down, we may not be kindly disposed to that person with maybe some later consequence, but we would not count it as aggression under our ROE.

This isn’t a game for you to dig for loop holes in the mechanics to exploit for your own ends.



Believe it or not, this is just what i wanted to know. We are just so tiresome because when we ask a genuine question you just respond with trolls and ad hominum attacks. To be perfectly honest, i cant help but have my doubts that you wouldnt tell a uk freighter pilot that i have placed a drag bubble for him on his destination, but at least your intention is this time not that hypocrite.

Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.04 11:05:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Merdaneth
Originally by: Darveses

Yeah, it's just that "The Fruit Flys" will no longer be neutrals by the time D gets together the skills for deloying a warp bubble.


I guess it is a possible strategy to set everyone to red without the option of diplomacy if they oppose you on the IGS (like Fruit Flys or myself) while conducting negotations with those who do actually shoot you but do not oppose you on the IGS (like the Daisho Syndicate) while simultanously trying to maintain here that only actions 'in space' really matter. It would be highly odd, twisted and hypocritical to do so, but certainly possible.


Merdaneth...

Tell me, why shouldn't we set someone red who

-trolls every single post of ours on the IGS
-is a more obvious mouthpiece than you care to admit
-threatens to anchor bubbles in our space not do "defend" himself as you people claim, which is funny by the way because bubbles on stations are rarely used to "defend" anything, but solely to hinder anyone in the area in yet another attempt to poke a hole in our ROE?

Originally by: Merdaneth

Originally by: Darveses
And real neutrals, without the hidden agenda of their masters written on their foreheads, usually don't deploy warpbubbles on undock points, do they?


I am happy you have come around to my point of view concerning some neutrals might be merely 'unregistered hostiles' rather than real neutrals instead of ascribing to ms. Constantine rants of 'a neutral is a neutral is a neutral!'.

I'm also quite happy that Star Fraction members are starting to jump at shadows, and are considering any suspicious neutral an agent of some hidden master with an agenda. This kind of paranoid behaviour will be a large contributor to shaping your vision of FreeSpace.

You are taking your first steps into a greater world and will need to grow up fast.



Read again.

I am not talking about "some" neutrals, I am talking about the likes of you, Melanogaster, Furby, and other IGS trolls.
Hardly what I'd call "jumping at shadows".

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.04 11:12:00 - [58]
 

Wait, you are now calling me a troll for having concerns/questions, while pretty much every SF response on those questions havent come further than trolling with as excuse i used to be in a holders alliance (fyi, half your blue list are former holder pilots).

Darveses
Fantastulousification Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.04 11:16:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Furb Killer
Wait, you are now calling me a troll for having concerns/questions, while pretty much every SF response on those questions havent come further than trolling with as excuse i used to be in a holders alliance (fyi, half your blue list are former holder pilots).


I must admit I hadn't seen your last message when I posted this, but still, one legitimate question doesn't make up for all the garbage in other threads.

Furb Killer
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.04 11:23:00 - [60]
 

I wont deny that i also have posted some trollish stuff.

However that all started after having several times legimate questions about why SF did/does certain things. If the only response to those questions are trolls because i was in an alliance (not even holders at that time) that was blue to CVA then i quite fast stop hoping for serious answers.


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