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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.01 17:09:00 - [1]
 

You guys remember Gary Gygax? The "Father" of D&D so to speak. In the original Dungeon Masters Guide he said there were 2 elements needed in a successful Campaign.

1. Always something to lose.
2. Not always something to gain.

EvE is about as close to this as you can get in an online game IMHO. Of course its not the exclusive reason EvE is successful, and you always do have SP to gain, but for the most part I think this is a big part of the formula.


Mac Auslan
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2010.05.01 17:48:00 - [2]
 

I was going to start a new thread until I saw this one. Perfect timing.

In EVE, there has also been created a bit of addiction. People get into their right (or left) brain, and get something that's similiar to a "high". You can stop playing, and after a while, you can't quit, you have too much too lose. If someone quits after playing 2-3-4 years, they most likely have to go thru rehab. They may have felt that they have waisted all that time and effort. The medical field has a fancy word for it. I can't recall it, I've spent too much time in a pod.

There's more- The levels of missions draws you in. Do you remember struggling in a L1 mission? Then you progressed to L4, and now they are boring. Many now see just how fast they can do the missions, because there is nothing more for them to do. (forums)
A single player can join a group, corp, or a gang, and go make themselves some fun. Then you feel you have responsibilities, duties, or roles to play. You can't quit now, you feel like you're actually needed.

CCP wants everyone to be in low-sec, or 0-0 space. High sec is just a distraction. It's only purpose is for the noobs to learn the basics of EVE, become bored and bury themselves deeper into the game. If all new players were thrown directly into .4-.0 space, can you imagine the carnage? Not many would see their first week or month. But CCP can't do that. They need you to get "addicted".

Yes, this is a bran-new character, but I've done hundreds of L4 missions. And like many of the forum warriors, who don't play that much anymore, I've become bored too. (I'm on a lot, and have many plugged into my buddy list, only a few log in, very rarely do I see them. Yeah, they could be on different times, but like I said, I'm on a lot.)

Am I going to quit? Hell NO! I love this game. I'm addicted. I can't wait for the future, when CCP developes real implants, so we can physically feel their 3-D world. Plug me in and hook up my feeding tube.

That's all. I'm done now, what was the original question again?

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.01 17:51:00 - [3]
 

Large population of basement dwelling, middle aged adolescents is the main reason why EVE is so successful.

Apoctasy
Lethal Injection.
Hedonistic Imperative
Posted - 2010.05.01 17:52:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Mac Auslan
I was going to start a new thread until I saw this one. Perfect timing.

In EVE, there has also been created a bit of addiction. People get into their right (or left) brain, and get something that's similiar to a "high". You can stop playing, and after a while, you can't quit, you have too much too lose. If someone quits after playing 2-3-4 years, they most likely have to go thru rehab. They may have felt that they have waisted all that time and effort. The medical field has a fancy word for it. I can't recall it, I've spent too much time in a pod.

There's more- The levels of missions draws you in. Do you remember struggling in a L1 mission? Then you progressed to L4, and now they are boring. Many now see just how fast they can do the missions, because there is nothing more for them to do. (forums)
A single player can join a group, corp, or a gang, and go make themselves some fun. Then you feel you have responsibilities, duties, or roles to play. You can't quit now, you feel like you're actually needed.

CCP wants everyone to be in low-sec, or 0-0 space. High sec is just a distraction. It's only purpose is for the noobs to learn the basics of EVE, become bored and bury themselves deeper into the game. If all new players were thrown directly into .4-.0 space, can you imagine the carnage? Not many would see their first week or month. But CCP can't do that. They need you to get "addicted".

Yes, this is a bran-new character, but I've done hundreds of L4 missions. And like many of the forum warriors, who don't play that much anymore, I've become bored too. (I'm on a lot, and have many plugged into my buddy list, only a few log in, very rarely do I see them. Yeah, they could be on different times, but like I said, I'm on a lot.)

Am I going to quit? Hell NO! I love this game. I'm addicted. I can't wait for the future, when CCP developes real implants, so we can physically feel their 3-D world. Plug me in and hook up my feeding tube.

That's all. I'm done now, what was the original question again?


How in the hell can you play Eve simply for level 4 missions?
What is wrong with you?

Datdaar Vanmestvaalt
Gallente
Muggers Inc.
Posted - 2010.05.01 19:19:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
You guys remember Gary Gygax? The "Father" of D&D so to speak. In the original Dungeon Masters Guide he said there were 2 elements needed in a successful Campaign.

1. Always something to lose.
2. Not always something to gain.

EvE is about as close to this as you can get in an online game IMHO. Of course its not the exclusive reason EvE is successful, and you always do have SP to gain, but for the most part I think this is a big part of the formula.

I played the original D&D for more than 15 years with the same group of old friends I now play EvE with. Guess why.....Very Happy

Capt Fossil
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.01 19:24:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Datdaar Vanmestvaalt
I played the original D&D for more than 15 years with the same group of old friends I now play EvE with. Guess why.....Very Happy


Cause you are basement dwelling, middle aged adolescents????

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.01 19:31:00 - [7]
 

3. Don't let Sony control your game.

I miss Planetside.


Ryhss
Caldari
The Excecutorans
Posted - 2010.05.01 19:32:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Cipher Jones
You guys remember Gary Gygax? The "Father" of D&D so to speak.


Don't forget Dave Arneson, Gary's co-creator.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.05.01 19:41:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
3. Don't let Sony control your game.

I miss Planetside.
Don't worry. You'll soon miss Planetside 2, once they screw that one up as well… Razz

Mac Auslan
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2010.05.01 19:52:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Mac Auslan on 01/05/2010 19:52:44
How can I just play EVE simply for the L4's.

Well, I don't, I mean I do . .right now. Look I only mentioned that in this instance, as an example. If everyone had to explain everything to everyone else, nothing could get done. Just take what I said, and as usually what happens on the forums, people read into things.

But, I have done FW's, been to low-sec and 0.0; tried manufacturing; did mining; did some L5's with a buddy. I'd just rather do L4's at this time.

And to answer your question- yes, I am a middle-aged adolescent, and my computer is in my basement. I'm an intravert, and my wife hates me playing EVE. Do you have a problem with that? (anyone playing EVE has their own personal problems anyway.)

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Posted - 2010.05.01 20:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Large population of basement dwelling, middle aged adolescents is the main reason why EVE is so successful.


Hey! I resent that. We studio dwelling, twenty something, drunkards have also greatly contributed!!

Kern Hotha
Posted - 2010.05.01 20:23:00 - [12]
 

Eve is successful because it's the best free-to-play MMO on the market. Free is a great feature.

Bodrul
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.05.01 20:45:00 - [13]
 

a game that you hate to love :P

RedLion
Caldari
State Constructions
Posted - 2010.05.01 20:54:00 - [14]
 

Eve - dead since 2004! l2p

Nooma K'Larr
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.01 21:27:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: ShahFluffers
Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Large population of basement dwelling, middle aged adolescents is the main reason why EVE is so successful.


Hey! I resent that. We studio dwelling, twenty something, drunkards have also greatly contributed!!



My apologies.Embarassed

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.05.01 21:31:00 - [16]
 

The reason Eve is very successful is that it simply doesn't have any real competition. The people who play Eve don't play much else for very long.

The day that a game shows up with a solid amount of gameplay and the same open sandbox design and a high level of loss for making mistakes I think we'll see CCP's performance falter a bit. On of these days someone will make an "Eve killer". I'm looking forward to it. It will be a fun game.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.05.01 21:35:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
The reason Eve is very successful is that it simply doesn't have any real competition. The people who play Eve don't play much else for very long.

The day that a game shows up with a solid amount of gameplay and the same open sandbox design and a high level of loss for making mistakes I think we'll see CCP's performance falter a bit. On of these days someone will make an "Eve killer". I'm looking forward to it. It will be a fun game.


There are a number of reasons why this is unlikely to happen. The simplest is that going up against a well established MMO in its own niche is really hard, because the incumbent has all the advantages. And if you're going to make all that effort, why go after a game with ~350k subs when you can go up against a game with millions of subs?

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.05.01 21:47:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Bellum Eternus
The reason Eve is very successful is that it simply doesn't have any real competition. The people who play Eve don't play much else for very long.

The day that a game shows up with a solid amount of gameplay and the same open sandbox design and a high level of loss for making mistakes I think we'll see CCP's performance falter a bit. On of these days someone will make an "Eve killer". I'm looking forward to it. It will be a fun game.


There are a number of reasons why this is unlikely to happen. The simplest is that going up against a well established MMO in its own niche is really hard, because the incumbent has all the advantages. And if you're going to make all that effort, why go after a game with ~350k subs when you can go up against a game with millions of subs?


You're thinking too small. Just because Eve holds the attention of ~350k subs doesn't mean that's all there is for that niche, or that's all there is for that market.

If one were to pick a more popular genre than 'internet spaceships' and would construct a game that draws on all of the experience and mistakes CCP has made with respect to game design etc. then I would think that we'd be looking at something with a pretty high degree of polish.

The key factor that *EVERY* other MMO out there is missing is what makes Eve so good: that PVP core with a hard connection between in-game results and time. TIME is the key here. It's what makes virtual items just as valuable as real items. Attach a time cost to something, virtual or not, and now it has worth, and that worth is fairly constant.

Once someone else figures this out and continues with that philosophy then I think we'll see quite a bit of cross pollination between the new game and Eve with respect to customer base.

I have the time and energy to play one MMO. I play Eve because everything else is total crap by comparison. Once another MMO comes along that is Eve's equal or even a little bit better who's genre suits me, I'll probably switch. Until then, I'll be playing Eve.

MaxxOmega
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2010.05.01 21:49:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: MaxxOmega on 01/05/2010 22:04:48
Originally by: Datdaar Vanmestvaalt
In the original I played the original D&D for more than 15 years with the same group of old friends I now play EvE with. Guess why.....Very Happy

Because you are all in the same penitentary together?


Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Once another MMO comes along that is Eve's equal or even a little bit better who's genre suits me, I'll probably switch. Until then, I'll be playing Eve.

It would have to be ALOT better I have so much time invested I'll never get back...

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.05.01 21:59:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: MaxxOmega
Edited by: MaxxOmega on 01/05/2010 21:56:48
Originally by: Datdaar Vanmestvaalt
In the original I played the original D&D for more than 15 years with the same group of old friends I now play EvE with. Guess why.....Very Happy

Because you are all in the same penitentary together?


Originally by: Bellum Eternus
Once another MMO comes along that is Eve's equal or even a little bit better who's genre suits me, I'll probably switch. Until then, I'll be playing Eve.
It would have to be ALOT better I have so much time invested I'll never get back...


That's Eve's main hook: sense of loss. It's a great psychological motivator. If you want to get your money and time invested back, just sell your character once you decide to quit for good. Problem solved.

MaxxOmega
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2010.05.01 22:07:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
That's Eve's main hook: sense of loss. It's a great psychological motivator. If you want to get your money and time invested back, just sell your character once you decide to quit for good. Problem solved.

Sell it for what? ISK is no good if you quit for good, selling it for RL cash is bad, and whoever quits for good anyway?

Trathen
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.01 22:08:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
There are a number of reasons why this is unlikely to happen. The simplest is that going up against a well established MMO in its own niche is really hard, because the incumbent has all the advantages. And if you're going to make all that effort, why go after a game with ~350k subs when you can go up against a game with millions of subs?


EVE is very similar to the days of Everquest in that it fills a particular niche and is one of a kind. Also like Everquest, it has that "helplessly unpolished" feel that leaves it open to conquest by a huge-budget developer. I also think that like Everquest, the more successful EVE gets, the more they are at risk for attracting the attention of suits with lots of money and brand recognition (e.g., Blizzard, Valve, Bioware). And again, like Everquest, the question won't be "How can we steal 350k subscriptions?", but "How can we turn this 350k subscription idea into a 5 million subscription idea?" I see that potential in EVE. If that ever happens, EVE will have to go balls-to-the-wall on finally polishing the game or risk losing everything... which could be good for EVE as well, of course.

MaxxOmega
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
Posted - 2010.05.01 22:21:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Mac Auslan
I'm an intravert, and my wife hates me playing EVE. Do you have a problem with that? (anyone playing EVE has their own personal problems anyway.)


LOL

I've been gaming 22 years. My wife has her own gaming rig. We have a blast together...

Mac Auslan
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2010.05.01 23:36:00 - [24]
 

Maxx- really, I would like the wife to play, but it's just not her. It would be cool. Way to go dude.

Vixisti
The Scope
Posted - 2010.05.02 00:04:00 - [25]
 

You are in a cold, dark room......

Darkk Agent
Amarr
Empire Intelligence Agency
Posted - 2010.05.02 00:16:00 - [26]
 

eve is a great game, and the reason why is encapsulated in one word.

consequences.

I just went out and did an incredibly stupid thing,(engage a dram) and I lost a very expensive ship(cruor, nice move, use a neut ship vs one with capless weps), and a lot of isk for it. I didn't respawn. My ship didn't magically reappear, nice and shiny and new. it's GONE. And it's on me to replace the loss. I learned something from the fight, but, oh, what an expensive learning. But that's what sets EVE apart. It makes you think, makes you want to play better, BE better at it. I know I'll never run around low sec in a pimp ship on a new char again Laughing


Vladimir Markov
Posted - 2010.05.02 00:48:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
3. Don't let Sony control your game.

I miss Planetside.




Me too Sad

Usagi Toshiro
Amarr
Krannon of Sherwood
Carthage Empires
Posted - 2010.05.02 05:01:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Capt Fossil
Originally by: Datdaar Vanmestvaalt
I played the original D&D for more than 15 years with the same group of old friends I now play EvE with. Guess why.....Very Happy


Cause you are basement dwelling, middle aged adolescents????


Capt...you're posting on the EVE forums, so I am going to take a shot in the dark...you play EVE...so does that make you..(a)basement dwelling, middle aged adolescent?

(Why do I bother to feed the trolls... )Rolling Eyes

Cipher Jones
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.05.02 05:15:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Vixisti
You are in a cold, dark room......


hehe, more like...

Quote:

load"*",8,1

You are in an open field west of a big white house with a boarded
front door.
There is a small mailbox here.
>




Yeah, is no wonder I live in a basement. I used to work on particle accelerators before the economy crashed...

Outa Rileau
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2010.05.02 05:24:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Nooma K'Larr
Large population of basement dwelling, middle aged adolescents is the main reason why EVE is so successful.


I've been playing this game since 13. Ain't quittin' now. I SPENT A THIRD OF MY LIFE ON THIS!!


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