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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.04.28 06:25:00 - [31]
 

Quote:

Cloak Mwd is a massively overpowered mechanic, unintended and ignored by CCP



Unintended, as in being the foundation of Blockade Runners?


Also, Low Sec means Low, not Null sec.

There's a Null Sec space as well, for those who want to experience camps in the full and unlocked version of the game.

Chaeryl
Posted - 2010.04.28 06:33:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny
Originally by: Guillame Herschel
Originally by: Cornaris
Ceptors cant close 14km in less than 3 seconds of a decloak/recloak


I suggest using a MWD and not smoking pot while in fleet.



The pot makes it funny Sad


A fleet with many Amarr ships looks awesome when on acid.

Discuss.

Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
Posted - 2010.04.28 07:31:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 28/04/2010 07:31:56
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: Cornaris
BC's/BS's getting past lowsec gatecamps with remote sensor boosted HIC's.

Discuss.


Gatecamping is the lowest form of PvP, usually only resorted to by those that like the idea of an easy kill, as anything else is too hard.

Discuss.
In low sec fw fights catching your opponents at the gate is about the only way to keep them from hitching up their skirts and dashing to the nearest station so they can hurl insults and cows at you in local.

Discuss.


consider insulting them right back and/or growing thicker skin and/or not caring because they're the simpering wussies who ran off to dock and play local chat PvP Razz

Also, I disagree with Pesky, as station camping and station games are the lowest forms of PvP, although hypnotic 0.0 bubblecamping is a close second

Opertone
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.28 08:51:00 - [34]
 

I fly a covert ops badger, discuss

Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
Posted - 2010.04.28 09:22:00 - [35]
 

My form of PVP is the highest form of pvp.

The people who kill me sometimes participate in the lowest form of pvp.

People who escape me are overpowered. I am working as intended.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2010.04.28 09:22:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 28/04/2010 09:26:27
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Cloak Mwd is a massively overpowered mechanic, unintended and ignored by CCP


Unintended, as in being the foundation of Blockade Runners?



Wrong of course. But most people who disagree with me are usually demonstrably so.

Cloak MWD Warp was never the intented "foundation of blockade runners" and to argue it is so is ludicrous. Id like to see that in the manual somewhere :)

ArrowThe "foundation" of the blockade runner was the built in 2 points of warp core stabilizer and high agility. That was the design feature to give it a better chance of running a blockade. Not a side effect from the clash of two modules.

This was later changed to the craft being allowed to fit a cov ops cloak (and the 2 point bonus switched to the much higher cargo spaced transport ship occator, mastadon, etc)

The point is, of course, apart from some mumbles and grumbles, no low sec PvPer has a complaint with a blockade runner being able to fit a covert ops cloak and zooming past a camp. Its a hauler specifically designed for this role . It doesn't fit weapons (of any note) and can be used for little other then scouting.

When battleships however, some of the slowest ships in the game, fully pvp fit - bristling with weaponry breeze about willy nilly through 10 man gate camps by simply hitting two keys - then all but the most dunderheaded would admit there is a problem.

But its an very old and tired topic, and the same comments have been said again and again and again. Im surprised someone hasnt suggested dropping cans all over the gate. Thats normally has popped up by now.

SKUNK


Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2010.04.28 09:31:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Pesky LaRue
Originally by: Cornaris
BC's/BS's getting past lowsec gatecamps with remote sensor boosted HIC's.

Discuss.


Gatecamping is the lowest form of PvP, usually only resorted to by those that like the idea of an easy kill, as anything else is too hard.

Discuss.


I thought this was reserved for capital ship docking games, or possibly use of neutral RR alts during war decs?

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2010.04.28 10:52:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Exlegion on 28/04/2010 11:09:20
Originally by: Le Skunk
Got him after maybe 30 attempts.

Cloak Mwd is a massively overpowered mechanic, unintended and ignored by CCP so best to try not to get worked up about it. Hundreds of threads and assembly posts achieved nothing.

The "borked fix" mentioned earlier had nothing to do with cloak mwd and was put in by ccp to stop people jamming and then cloaking in falcons (there is a term for it I forget what it is known as)

However they indeed made a royal mess up which in fact made cloak mwd even easier (with carriers aligning and warping in 3 seconds) so it was reverted.

SKUNK
Still making a habit out of lying, I see. Your gatecamp once did pin my transport, but not "after 30 attempts", as you claim. It was at most 3 attempts. You should try speaking the truth some time.
Originally by: Le Skunk
When battleships however, some of the slowest ships in the game, fully pvp fit - bristling with weaponry breeze about willy nilly through 10 man gate camps by simply hitting two keys - then all but the most dunderheaded would admit there is a problem.
This also isn't true. A battleship fit for PVP attempting this maneuver will fail miserably at it. However, if said battleship is fit for flight (WCS, cloak, nanos, i-stabs, etc) then the chances of surviving a camp do significantly increase. But I can assure you, having to even turn off guns to fit a "flight" kit, you will not see many pilots stop to put up a fight in it.

I've lived in low security space on my own now for a very long time. And this isn't the "easy escape button" some of you are making it sound to be.


Helmh0ltz
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.04.28 10:57:00 - [39]
 

The first time I tried this, I used a Prototype Cloaking Device I.



I died horribly.

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.04.28 10:58:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Buckethed
Using a Prototype cloaking device on any ship with a highslot to break past any lowsec camp is an unintended game mechanic.


Is there a devblog where this is confirmed?

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.04.28 11:09:00 - [41]
 

The yucky penalties of the improved cloak plus it being a pita to fit make this not so awesome compared to scout alts and stuff.

Personally I could not care less about the topic.



drunkenmaster
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.28 11:39:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: drunkenmaster on 28/04/2010 11:39:56
I find the best way to deal with a tactic that a limited selection of the Eve population uses is to make a thread about it, so you can have even less targets in future.

Seriously, at least make a fakepost about something that never works claiming that it is the most effective 'solution' to gate camps. Pirates these days.. no imagination.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.04.28 12:45:00 - [43]
 

It's not as if they aren't sitting ducks while cloaked or anything. Fail less at decloaking these foul exploiters.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2010.04.28 13:02:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 28/04/2010 13:02:39
another option is to litter the gate with so much junk that their cloak dosen't work

had it happen to me once, luckily I was in a BR and they align too fast to point in time anyway (nevermind the covops cloak)

edit: ...but an inty is probably more practical Razz

Ottersmacker
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2010.04.28 13:21:00 - [45]
 

Think of it this way - if you manage to decloak them (and it's pretty easy even in non-imba frigates), you'll lock them pretty much instantly since they have +% MWD bloom and and they won't be at the speed they need to initiate warp if their cycle hasn't finished yet.

Xtover
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.04.28 13:24:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Xtover on 28/04/2010 13:25:50
Originally by: Buckethed
Originally by: Pohbis
Lowsec gatecampers whining on forums because the ones that adapt get through their camps.


Using a Covert ops cloak, or scouting with a pod is a great example of adapting.
Using a Prototype cloaking device on any ship with a highslot to break past any lowsec camp is an unintended game mechanic.


Ceptors work fine for slow ships, Hac's doing this trick are pretty annoying



cloaking is fine.

works as intended, just like AFK cloaking.




Ran Khanon
Amarr
Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
Posted - 2010.04.28 13:28:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Pesky LaRue


Gatecamping is the lowest form of PvP, usually only resorted to by those that like the idea of an easy kill, as anything else is too hard.

Discuss.


Indeed. That those people fail at tackling and engaging me in mid warp or when I am in docking range proves the complete lack of effort on their parts. Also the fact that they aren't blobbing planets and asteroid belts for the occasional passer-by shows that gate campers have a terrible lack of patience as well.

I mean .. how cowardly is it to go and sit on the single best spot of a system as far as chances on getting some kills go?

sakana
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.04.28 13:33:00 - [48]
 

this trick doesn't work everytime, i.e it takes quite a bit of practice. i see it as one of the few tricks solo pvpers can use to play this game.


Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2010.04.28 13:36:00 - [49]
 

And to believe there are actually people who claim carebear tears are sweet.


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.04.28 13:53:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Killer Gandry
And to believe there are actually people who claim carebear tears are sweet.
They are! Gankbear tears are salty. Which of the two you like more is very much a personal preference… Wink

tikki
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.04.28 14:31:00 - [51]
 

Very interesting topic, though not a new one.

As a "veteran" low sec outlaw I'll admit that it's frustrating when someone you would expect to catch easily uses this technique to avoid capture. Of course it's exactly how I fit ships when trying to move things from A to B through low sec!

As someone has mentioned already I feel that because you have to nerf your fit to make this work (i.e fit cloak and i-stabs / nanos) it's a valid tactic though I suspect it's not what CCP really intended. What I do feel is a little wrong is that this is a "technique" you either know about or don't, same as the insta warping freighters using webs. These give the veteran player an advantage over the newer player. I'd rather play on an even playing field and win through superior tactics. It's amazing how many people don't know the basic tricks such as these and how the session timer works.


Killer Gandry
Caldari
Shadow of the Pain
Posted - 2010.04.28 14:39:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Tippia
They are! Gankbear tears are salty. Which of the two you like more is very much a personal preference… Wink


Well when going to the movies I always take a big bucket of salty popcorn, so I think that clears that question.

Though the best tears I have seen in all my EVE time was the Goony tears when they got scammed just as hard as they scammed people over the years.

Gotta love poetic justice.

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2010.04.28 14:50:00 - [53]
 

Griefing gatecampers is my PvP.

Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
Chubby Chuppers Chubba Chups
Posted - 2010.04.28 14:55:00 - [54]
 

Edited by: Le Skunk on 28/04/2010 14:56:41
Originally by: Exlegion
Your gatecamp once did pin my transport, but not "after 30 attempts", as you claim. It was at most 3 attempts. You should try speaking the truth some time.


Well you managed to lose a crane WHICH WARPS CLOAKED in the same system so your not exactly a shining example of button pushing. Hit warp - Hit F1 - Thats it.

Originally by: Le Skunk

I've lived in low security space on my own now for a very long time. And this isn't the "easy escape button" some of you are making it sound to be.



Ive lived in low sec, specificaly for pvp purposes (most of your time you spend mission running in deadspace having NO interaction with anyone else) longer then you - and I say it is.

BTW you never thanked me for informing you of the delightful Talon Sets - to make your unprobable mission tengu.


Originally by: Le Skunk

But its an very old and tired topic, and the same comments have been said again and again and again. Im surprised someone hasnt suggested dropping cans all over the gate. Thats normally has popped up by now.



Lo and behold

Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 28/04/2010 13:02:39
another option is to litter the gate with so much junk that their cloak dosen't work



Anyway strange isnt is that people defending this unintended "technique" come at it from different ways. Take for example the following two cases


Originally by: Exlegion
This also isn't true. A battleship fit for PVP attempting this maneuver will fail miserably at it.... you will not see many pilots stop to put up a fight in it.



Originally by: sakana
this trick doesn't work everytime, i.e it takes quite a bit of practice. i see it as one of the few tricks solo pvpers can use to play this game.



Here we have one player claiming it is impossible to fit a pvp ship and pull off this trick. Yet the next one claims it takes quite a bit of practice (about 5 or 6 attempts for me to get it down pat btw) and its one of the few tricks solo pvpers can use.

So which is it. Impossible for a BS to pull off and PVP. Or one of the only ways remaining to solo pvp?

I can tell you from practice that its perfectly possible, and indeed I have used this setup in a fully pvp fit ship. The dreaded penalties are.... some scan res droppage which a sensor booster more then makes up for. In exchange for invulnerability moving through low sec. Nice trade off eh?




SKUNK

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.04.28 14:59:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Le Skunk
I've lived in low security space on my own now for a very long time. And this isn't the "easy escape button" some of you are making it sound to be.
Ive lived in low sec, specificaly for pvp purposes (most of your time you spend mission running in deadspace having NO interaction with anyone else) longer then you - and I say it is.
I think there's medication for this now… Shocked

Aralieus
Amarr
Shadowbane Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.28 15:10:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Cornaris


not smoking pot while in fleet.



Not going to happen Very Happy

Marchocias
Posted - 2010.04.28 15:11:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Chaeryl


A fleet with many Amarr ships looks awesome when on acid.

Discuss.


EVERYTHING looks awesome on strong acid. But why waste good acid on a game of Eve? It's definately best outdoors.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2010.04.28 15:34:00 - [58]
 

I think the biggest issue here is the best ship for countering it (Inty) will likely get popped by sentries in the process unless it's FW or some other empire war.

Trick itself takes a little skill to do right, especially when dealing with less-agile ships like BS and Transports but it's all very possible. Best I managed was escaping a dual-scram Taranis in a fully-expanded Bustard (in 0.0), although that was close (had to overheat MWD and wait a second before hitting cloak) and a single mistake would have gotten me killed

Low-sec isn't a dangerous place these days, more of a consensual PvP zone so long as you have half a brain and don't slip up somewhere. It really baffles me that people still die to gatecamps.

Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
Posted - 2010.04.28 15:42:00 - [59]
 

hi cat here

i think the real issue is why are you trying to camp a gate anyway? are you a pirate or something lol why not just let the traveleers through?

oh right you did lol and then now you are getting grumpy about not being able to mercilessly gank an innocent passer by

why dont you try doing missions then that way you will be able to shoot lots of things without anyone getting upset, u or the traveller lol

xx

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2010.04.28 16:36:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Le Skunk
Well you managed to lose a crane WHICH WARPS CLOAKED in the same system so your not exactly a shining example of button pushing. Hit warp - Hit F1 - Thats it.

And the fact that your camp had an inty had nothing to do with it, right?. I see you haven't changed one bit.

Originally by: Le Skunk
Ive lived in low sec, specificaly for pvp purposes (most of your time you spend mission running in deadspace having NO interaction with anyone else) longer then you - and I say it is.
Again, mixing your half truths with half lies. Yes, I mission in low sec space. A lot. Accusing me of having no interaction with anyone else? Laughable. But more importantly, what does that have to do with using the cloak-MWD trick? But if it bothers you that much that I run missions in low sec feel free to petition me or hunt me down. Whatever.

One thing is obvious, Le Skunk. You have an unhealthy disdain for people that choose to play the game the way I do. Anyway, this is all the time I have for you now.



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