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Jal Zea
Posted - 2010.04.25 19:00:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jal Zea on 25/04/2010 19:06:02
Hi, how are doing Minmatar ships in PvP nowadays? Any good boats worth to mention? Either of solo or fleet suited.

Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
Posted - 2010.04.25 19:09:00 - [2]
 

Rifter - Solo/Fleet
Jaguar - Solo/Fleet
Wolf - Solo/Fleet
Claw - Solo/Fleet
Stilletto - Fleet
Thrasher - Fleet/Solo
Stabber - Solo
Rupture - Solo/Fleet
Huginn - Solo/Fleet
Rapier - Solo/Fleet
Vagabond - Solo
Muninn - Fleet
Scimitar - Fleet (lol at a logistics soloing anything Laughing)
Loki - Solo/Fleet
Cyclone - Solo
Hurricane - Solo/Fleet
Typhoon - Fleet/Maybe solo
Tempest - Fleet
Maelstrom - Fleet/Solo

That's about all the good minmatar PVP ships I can think of, and where I would use them.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.04.25 19:13:00 - [3]
 

One of these needs to be stickied one day, since this topic comes up so frequently.

To answer your question Minmatar are probably the best overall at PVP. This comes with a price, however, they are also the most skill intensive race in the game.

If you want to get into PVP quick, fast and in a hurry, then go Caldari cause you'll only need to train missiles and shields initially, but if you really want to excel in PVP, but spend a few more months getting to that point, then go Minmatar.

The reason I say this is because you will need to train armor skills, shield skills, autocannon skills, artillery skills, drones kills, nunchuck skills, bo-staff skills and be able to draw a lyger with your eyes closed to be proficient with all the ships they have available.

If you want a good ship progression then I would suggest the following:
Train up your armor and autocannon skills and then try out the Rifter, Thrasher, Rupture, Hurricane, Tempest.
Then train up your shield and missile skills and come back and try out the Cyclone, Maelstrom, Sleipnir.

After that, just train to taste and don't forget to neglect your engineering, electronics, navigation and drone skills along the way.

Skip the Minmatar recons, they are the worst of the Recons right now.

Narsis Boxx
Posted - 2010.04.25 19:36:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Narsis Boxx on 25/04/2010 19:38:01
I agree except for the recon thing. We run them in groups and after all the salvage and loot we make a tidy profit.They just tend to take a while.


Originally by: Neesa Corrinne
One of these needs to be stickied one day, since this topic comes up so frequently.

To answer your question Minmatar are probably the best overall at PVP. This comes with a price, however, they are also the most skill intensive race in the game.

If you want to get into PVP quick, fast and in a hurry, then go Caldari cause you'll only need to train missiles and shields initially, but if you really want to excel in PVP, but spend a few more months getting to that point, then go Minmatar.


I agree here except for the recons, some can really profitable if run with a corpmate. We do this and actually make a nice profit but it just takes forever!

The reason I say this is because you will need to train armor skills, shield skills, autocannon skills, artillery skills, drones kills, nunchuck skills, bo-staff skills and be able to draw a lyger with your eyes closed to be proficient with all the ships they have available.

If you want a good ship progression then I would suggest the following:
Train up your armor and autocannon skills and then try out the Rifter, Thrasher, Rupture, Hurricane, Tempest.
Then train up your shield and missile skills and come back and try out the Cyclone, Maelstrom, Sleipnir.

After that, just train to taste and don't forget to neglect your engineering, electronics, navigation and drone skills along the way.

Skip the Minmatar recons, they are the worst of the Recons right now.

Amarr Supremacist
Posted - 2010.04.25 19:51:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat
Scimitar - Fleet (lol at a logistics soloing anything Laughing


Not sure if troll, but the Scimitar is not a bad solo ship. And there's one pilot in particular that has done an amazing job in it.

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.04.25 21:22:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Caleidascope on 25/04/2010 21:27:37
Edited by: Caleidascope on 25/04/2010 21:27:00
Here is what you are going to need:

Ship command and ship skills.

Navigation skills. There are three sets, but you only need two sets. Set 1 are mwd skills, Set 2 are mwd and ab skills. Skip purely ab skills.

Armor skills.

AC skills, skip arti skills.

Engineering skills. These are shield skills and capacitor, very important. Shield skills for the buffer, capacitor for running EW and armor repair.

EW skills like web, scram, maybe target painting for fleet.

Once you get to bigger ships like cruisers and up, drones.


Ninetails o'Cat
League of Super Evil
Posted - 2010.04.25 22:09:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Amarr Supremacist
Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat
Scimitar - Fleet (lol at a logistics soloing anything Laughing


Not sure if troll, but the Scimitar is not a bad solo ship. And there's one pilot in particular that has done an amazing job in it.


It was half a troll, I was just grinning at the thought of a solo logistics. Of course it is possible, and there are enough bad pilots in EVE to make it work, but you're wasting almost all of the bonuses, and you'll have very little DPS.

Omara Otawan
Posted - 2010.04.25 23:03:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat

It was half a troll, I was just grinning at the thought of a solo logistics. Of course it is possible, and there are enough bad pilots in EVE to make it work, but you're wasting almost all of the bonuses, and you'll have very little DPS.


Solo logistics can also be understood as "the only logistic ship in the gang", and the scimitar does that pretty good, better than any other logi.

Using it solo can work as well, it is decently fast and cap stable with a rather nice buffer for a cruiser, just a little low on dps. Pick your fights, works with every ship in game.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.04.25 23:22:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Caleidascope
skip arti skills.



Blasphemer.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.04.25 23:40:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Caleidascope
skip arti skills.



Blasphemer.

Indeed. Ruptures with nearly 3000 point alpha strikes ftw. Shocked

Also: Cyclone solo/epic bait.

Caleidascope
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.04.26 01:16:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Caleidascope
skip arti skills.



Blasphemer.


My PvE ships are arti fits. This thread is not about PvE.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.04.26 01:19:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Caleidascope
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Caleidascope
skip arti skills.



Blasphemer.


My PvE ships are arti fits. This thread is not about PvE.
If you think that the new arty has no place in pvp then lulz. Smile

RasaelWolf
Caldari
APEX ARDENT COALITION
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2010.04.26 07:15:00 - [13]
 

This is so wrong...

Why are minmatar ships so damn good at PvP, i remember times when there was gallente with good opportunity of winning (until blaster nerf), there was a time when Amarr were considered as one of the best PvP races out there (at that time all were pretty equal) and for minnies, they have always been good ships for PvP and now they are the best! Like it wasn't enough for them to be always the 2nd best PvP race, right after the one that was best. When it's caldaris time in the sunshine? Shocked

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.04.26 09:53:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Caleidascope
My PvE ships are arti fits. This thread is not about PvE.


Very funny Laughing

Mr Pentex
Posted - 2010.04.26 12:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: RasaelWolf
This is so wrong...

Why are minmatar ships so damn good at PvP, i remember times when there was gallente with good opportunity of winning (until blaster nerf), there was a time when Amarr were considered as one of the best PvP races out there (at that time all were pretty equal) and for minnies, they have always been good ships for PvP and now they are the best! Like it wasn't enough for them to be always the 2nd best PvP race, right after the one that was best. When it's caldaris time in the sunshine? Shocked


Want some bread with that whine? Wink

RasaelWolf
Caldari
APEX ARDENT COALITION
C0NVICTED
Posted - 2010.04.26 13:06:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Mr Pentex
Originally by: RasaelWolf
This is so wrong...

Why are minmatar ships so damn good at PvP, i remember times when there was gallente with good opportunity of winning (until blaster nerf), there was a time when Amarr were considered as one of the best PvP races out there (at that time all were pretty equal) and for minnies, they have always been good ships for PvP and now they are the best! Like it wasn't enough for them to be always the 2nd best PvP race, right after the one that was best. When it's caldaris time in the sunshine? Shocked


Want some bread with that whine? Wink


Says probably a person who has very good, if not perfect, minmatar ship skills, am i right?
I'll be guessing that if gallente was the best PvP race and minnies would be almost useless, then i guess you'd have something to say also :)

Mr Pentex
Posted - 2010.04.26 13:20:00 - [17]
 

Well, all things move in an wave pattern. The best to day, worse to tomorrow.
it just to go with what you got and wait it out. All races has their pros and cons, if they were att equall what is the point of chosing a race?
My 50 cent

Lavraen
Animus Furandi
Posted - 2010.04.26 13:23:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat
Rifter - Solo/Fleet
Jaguar - Solo/Fleet
Wolf - Solo/Fleet
Claw - Solo/Fleet
Stilletto - Fleet
Thrasher - Fleet/Solo
Stabber - Solo
Rupture - Solo/Fleet
Huginn - Solo/Fleet
Rapier - Solo/Fleet
Vagabond - Solo
Muninn - Fleet
Scimitar - Fleet (lol at a logistics soloing anything Laughing)
Loki - Solo/Fleet
Cyclone - Solo
Hurricane - Solo/Fleet
Typhoon - Fleet/Maybe solo
Tempest - Fleet
Maelstrom - Fleet/Solo

That's about all the good minmatar PVP ships I can think of, and where I would use them.



I would add the Sleipnir and Broadsword to your list.

SFX Bladerunner
Minmatar
Aperture Science inc.
Posted - 2010.04.26 13:23:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Neesa Corrinne


Skip the Minmatar recons, they are the worst of the Recons right now.


I disagree.

-both the huginn and the rapier are the best ships to web freighters in empire with. (range bonus allows you to web the freighter even when you land 15km left on the ingate and freighter lands 15km right without having to fly towards the freighter)
-web bonus works like a charm for preventing targets from burning back to a gate when gatecamping without having to sacrifice/risk tackler frigs in scram+web range
-often used to web carriers/caps trying to burn back into a POS shield so they can be ganked

Granted they are not the best recons to fly solo, they still have a clear purpose and fullfill it well.

Ard UnjiiGo
Meatshield Bastards
Posted - 2010.04.26 13:38:00 - [20]
 

Vigil is an underrated Minnie frig.

Give it a spin with a kiting/arty fit and you may not ever go back to Rifters.

Neesa Corrinne
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.04.26 13:55:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: SFX Bladerunner
Originally by: Neesa Corrinne


Skip the Minmatar recons, they are the worst of the Recons right now.


I disagree.

-both the huginn and the rapier are the best ships to web freighters in empire with. (range bonus allows you to web the freighter even when you land 15km left on the ingate and freighter lands 15km right without having to fly towards the freighter)
-web bonus works like a charm for preventing targets from burning back to a gate when gatecamping without having to sacrifice/risk tackler frigs in scram+web range
-often used to web carriers/caps trying to burn back into a POS shield so they can be ganked

Granted they are not the best recons to fly solo, they still have a clear purpose and fullfill it well.


You can disagree all you want, but other than webbing friendly freighters, which you can do just as well with pretty much any small, fast ship in the game since the rapier doesn't get a strength bonus, there really is no reason to use one.

You can toss two crappy webs on someone and slow them down something like 75% of their current speed after stacking penalties or you can toss one 21.6km scram on them from an Arazu and slow them down -500%. I'll take the single module that turns their MWD off rather than two modules that moderately suck. Toss a True Sansha scram on that Arazu and you're turning off MWD's from 28km... why bother webbing them?

Not to mention the Minnie recons get that all powerful Target Painter bonus. Oh man, I don't know how many times I've begged my fleet to bring something with TP's fitted on it!

Falcon, Rook, Arazu, Lachesis, Curse and Pilgrim can all even be flown solo!

Abbot Laarkin
Order Of Mystical Mountain Monks
Posted - 2010.04.26 14:00:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Ninetails o'Cat
Rifter - Solo/Fleet
...snip..

Tempest - Fleet
...snip..
That's about all the good minmatar PVP ships I can think of, and where I would use them.



/solo, the "Hurripest" is very nice soloVery Happy It makes (smallish) BC gangs cry.

Wayay Bonnylad
Posted - 2010.04.26 16:01:00 - [23]
 

Stuff I have in my main's hangar and what I reckon is worth having from the ship line:

2 x Rifters - #1 T1 frig in the game, so you have to have some.
Probe - Cargo Expanders and rigs gives you a 1000m3 (almost) frig hauler
2 x Ruptures - natural step up from the Rifter
Cyclone - solo active shield fit for when I jump into my LG Crystal clone
4 x Hurricanes - bread and butter Minmatar PvP ship. Both shield gank and armour buffered fits. You must have some of these as a PvP minnie pilot. It's the law.
Typhoon - remote rep armour fit for fleet work
2 x Tempests - one shield gank and one armour. Mostly solo or small gang stuff
Maelstrom - solo active shield fit. Again for those LG Crystal moments. Solo or small gang.
Fleet Issue Scythe - 250 DPS cruiser with frig manouvreability.
Dramiel - FOTM
Cynabal - FOTM. Sold my Vaga to buy it and I like it a lot
2 x Scimitars - I like repping my buddies
Claymore - I am working towards getting a Skirmish Mindlink implant. This is a great ship, either buffer or active shield tanked.
Loki - Swiss Army ship, as long as you like webbing stuff and flying shield buffered. You don't see many armour tanked ones (well I haven't)
Vargur - mission ship

I have trained T2 artilleries up, but as mentioned above I would also recommend sticking with autocannons and skipping artillery for PvP. By all means train it up for PvE until you can get into a Maelstrom/Vargur mission ship, when autocannons are generally better than artillery for Lvl 4s.

In hindsight, I reckon a good training schedule for Minmatar ships (PvP based) is to go for autocannons, armour and neuts and go for the natural progression of Rifter, Rupture and Hurricane. Once you can fit and fly a good armour buffered Hurricane (ACs, Neuts, MWD, Point, Webs, 1600mm Plate, EANMs, DC II, Gyros and armour rigs) then you should get T2 Warrior drones. You don't need to get T2 medium drones for any minmatar ship below a battleship. Even if they have space and bandwidth to carry and use medium drones (ie Huggin & Rapier) you are almost always better off carrying 8 x Warriors and keeping a couple spare in the drone bay.

Once you are into the Cane with T2 warriors, you should start looking at shield skills so you can open up the other good minnie ships - buffer skills for Stabber, Vagabond, Scimitar, Rapier, Huggin & Loki and active shield skills for Cyclone, Claymore, Sleipnir and to prepare for the Maelstrom.

Once you have shield skills in the bag, then look at getting missiles to T2 so you can better utilise those fits that require a little more DPS - ie some Hurricane fits that use HAMs and those Huggin fits with HMLs. This also prepares the way for T2 Torps for the Minmatar nirvana of getting a good Typhoon fit.

At this stage you may be itching for battleships or to develop into more skill intensive T2 cruisers. For T2 cruisers just fine tune your shield, autocannon, drone and navigation skills, which will also set you up for the Maelstrom. For the other battleships, go back to the start and finish off those armour skills and get into Phoons and Tempests.

My main is currently on around 35 Million SP in almost exclusively PvP areas. I have Lvl 5 in minmatar frigs, cruiser, BCs (a must for minmatar), battleships and logistics. I have Lvl 4 in recons, HACs, Command Ships and Strat Cruisers. I still don't have T2 heavy drones. I have T2 torps but only T1 cruises, HAMs and HMLs. My projectile gunnery is almost perfect (just need to finish off some of those Spec skills). Minmatar have really good PvP ships nowadays and I have reached that point where I am happy I have the skills I need to fly most of them competently. They are a very skill intensive race but very satisfying once you get there.


 

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