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Lithia Tsanov
Posted - 2010.05.07 18:41:00 - [61]
 

Cloaks do not require any change. I kill 50 - 100 cloakers per week. It's easy.

Feel free to verify:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=Lithia+Tsanov

Pilots that desire changes to existing cloaks shoul either:

1: Go back to empire
2: Learn to kill cloakers

LT

Khanoonian Singh
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.05.08 10:46:00 - [62]
 

Local could be removed then you wouldn't have to stare at the scary afk cloaker. Or perhaps every hull sold in low/0.0 should come with a pair.

Ruhige Schmerz
New Eden Scientific Association
Posted - 2010.05.08 13:37:00 - [63]
 

AFK cloaking is not a problem imho, but cloaking in general is. In another thread my suggestion was a new modules designed to find cloaked ships; it would work like a cyno module but at the end of the cycle.

1. The ship using it would be immobile for the duration.
2. It would pop up some kind of signal on the overview that anyone can warp to.
3. It would require fuel of some kind.

At the end of the cycle, the user gets something like signatures on his map similar to probe signatures, already at 100%, of only cloaked ships, that he can bookmark and warp to.

This would give a warning to cloakers that they are being hunted and give them a chance to leave or destroy the scanning ship, while truly afk cloakers would die.

This isn't really to stop afk cloakers so much as it's to add some risk to all cloakers. Cloaking as it is goes against the eve mentality of not ever being completely safe while in space.

Greymoon Avatar
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.05.08 16:50:00 - [64]
 

How about HTFU?

FullNelson Mandella
Posted - 2010.05.09 01:25:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz
This would give a warning to cloakers that they are being hunted and give them a chance to leave or destroy the scanning ship, while truly afk cloakers would die.



Why not just kill them when they're not cloaked? Before a cloaker can do 'anything', they have to decloak. So leave the system, get in an interdictor or intercepter, and kill them when they reveal coming through the gate.

Ruhige Schmerz
New Eden Scientific Association
Posted - 2010.05.09 19:20:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: FullNelson Mandella
Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz
This would give a warning to cloakers that they are being hunted and give them a chance to leave or destroy the scanning ship, while truly afk cloakers would die.



Why not just kill them when they're not cloaked? Before a cloaker can do 'anything', they have to decloak. So leave the system, get in an interdictor or intercepter, and kill them when they reveal coming through the gate.


Does not address being undocked and perfectly safe; a trait only ships with cloaking devices (covops cloaks or not) possess, that runs counter to the eve philosophy.

Annie Anomie
Shadows Of The Federation
Posted - 2010.05.09 21:55:00 - [67]
 

AFK bullying?

GTFO

Dacryphile
Posted - 2010.05.09 22:33:00 - [68]
 

Why do you have some much fear when someone is so obviously afk?

Francais Tempest
Gallente
White Knights Imperius
Posted - 2010.05.09 23:14:00 - [69]
 

Laughing
The only problem I have with afk cloaking is the same problem I have with afk period, that is, they take up server capacity. Not much, but every bit counts.

Otherwise, why care. I mean, they are afk, so they can't hurt you. If you are really worried about them, move to another location.

Lithia Tsanov
Posted - 2010.05.10 16:14:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz
Does not address being undocked and perfectly safe; a trait only ships with cloaking devices (covops cloaks or not) possess, that runs counter to the eve philosophy.


Any cruiser or frig with active an ECCM module(s) fits this description. ECCM lowers sig and makes you unscannable. Dramiels going >12k/sec are perfectly safe. They can simply align and go to sleep.

Cloakers are not perfectly safe. They're extremely vulnerable when they decloak (more so than a non cloaking ship).

Cloakers are really not as big an issue as you are making them out to be. While you could probably make an argument to separate the cloak and stealth aspects (so that a griefer would require 2 modules to be perfectly safe), it's really not that unbalanced in its current state.

What is a single grief cloaker possibly going to do to a properly fit ratter BS? I think the pilgrim is probably the only 'solo' recon that I'd really be worried about when ratting.

Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
Posted - 2010.05.11 00:32:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Zmorana
the AFK player should not have a monopoly on fear.


They don't.

Quote:

There should be no reward for inactivity.



There isn't.

HTH. HAND.

Haramir Haleths
Caldari
Nutella Bande
Posted - 2010.05.11 09:00:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz
Originally by: FullNelson Mandella
Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz
This would give a warning to cloakers that they are being hunted and give them a chance to leave or destroy the scanning ship, while truly afk cloakers would die.



Why not just kill them when they're not cloaked? Before a cloaker can do 'anything', they have to decloak. So leave the system, get in an interdictor or intercepter, and kill them when they reveal coming through the gate.


Does not address being undocked and perfectly safe; a trait only ships with cloaking devices (covops cloaks or not) possess, that runs counter to the eve philosophy.


Nonsens.
ECCM make you perfectly safe on a safe spot. alligned Ceptor or Dramiel also.
Cloaking ment to be safe. These ships are gimped like hell. You cannot kill anything in it when the oponent have some clue of game mechanics.
So learn to fit your ships and learn the game mechanics, then you are safe to cloaker.

Mark Hadden
Amarr
Endstati0n
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.11 11:49:00 - [73]
 

Quote:

There should be no reward for inactivity.



lol, I love this one...
Eve Online IS DESIGNED for playing afk!

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1300692&page=14#409

Captain Blart
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2010.05.12 06:22:00 - [74]
 

What the OP is trying to say is that he want to have a fat wallet without the inherent risks of 0.0, I'm afraid you can't have it all, you can't have all the fat rats of 0.0 and the relative peace of mind of 1.0. If you can't deal with the risks of loosing ships, maybe you should stay in empire.

Cloaking works as intended, so stop trying to have things changed that dont need to be.

Lithia Tsanov
Posted - 2010.05.12 19:05:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Captain Blart
What the OP is trying to say is that he want to have a fat wallet without the inherent risks of 0.0


I hear him saying something different. He's saying that he perceives a threat for which there is no known counter, and that this is unique to cloaking.<BR><BR>
We're saying that there are a number of counters, and that this is in no way unique to cloaking (citing 2 examples). We've also provided a link to a battleclinic that corroborates our position.

Just so we're clear:

Assertion: A cloaker is totally safe when cloaked
Reality: A cloaker is susceptible to AOE damage, Interdiction, and being decloaked by objects passing within 2k.

Assertion: Cloaked ships are a threat.
Reality: A cloaked ship is not a threat until it decloaks. A cloaked ship can do nothing (with the exception of scan, move, and in some cases, warp). Most single recons are not a threat to ratters (the exception is the pilgrim). There's a hand full of insane bomber pilots out there as well.

Assertion: A cloaker cannot be probed, and this is unique.
Reality: This attribute is shared by ECCM'd boats and ships capable of speeds greater than 7km/sec. With high speed ships, there's a small chance you can warp from an inline to 100km of the result, but you still have to catch them.

Assertion: Cloaking is an unfair advantage
Reality: (Almost) any ship in the game can fit a cloak. There's nothing unfair about it. If you want to even the odds, fit a cloak.


Ruhige Schmerz
New Eden Scientific Association
Posted - 2010.05.13 20:47:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Lithia Tsanov

Cloakers are not perfectly safe. They're extremely vulnerable when they decloak (more so than a non cloaking ship).



While cloaked, they are perfectly safe.

Originally by: Lithia Tsanov

What is a single grief cloaker possibly going to do to a properly fit ratter BS?



He might miss the point, as you seem to have.

Originally by: Lithia Tsanov
(so that a griefer would require 2 modules to be perfectly safe)



Nothing (undocked) should be perfectly safe. Unforseen consequences (speed, undetectable by probes) are not arguments in favor of leaving cloaking alone, they are just examples of other issues that need addressed.


xplosiv
Posted - 2010.05.13 22:47:00 - [77]
 

The very simple fact of this is that if you do change cloaks people are going to afk greif you in perma capped inties.

A interceptor with a mwd and all except the best named and snake implants is still fairly impossible to probe and catch if it heads straight up.
If you then look at the dramiel or is it the daredevil? with snakes and best deadspace stuff. you are looking at something you will never ever catch as noting goes faster and it is all ways allways going to be like 40km ahead of you by the time you warp to a hit.

the fact is that ye this makes it a little harder as cheaper inties can be caught but in truth is still going to lead to lots of afk greifing. and lets be hounest you aint gonna be able to rat like you want to when you can see a inty on scan.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2010.05.14 01:14:00 - [78]
 

One more time: there are a lot of cloakers out there who do it to survive. Exploration ships, freighters, people looking for a way home, you name it. Not everybody who is cloaked is a bully.

The real problem with cloaks are these Jan Brady types who can't stand it when somebody is in "their" system and cannot be found out and ganked.

Remove local and the Jan Bradys can go learn how to play the game.



Lithia Tsanov
Posted - 2010.05.14 02:53:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz
Originally by: Lithia Tsanov

Cloakers are not perfectly safe. They're extremely vulnerable when they decloak (more so than a non cloaking ship).



While cloaked, they are perfectly safe.



Once again, this is incorrect.

He was cloaked
So was this guy
And this guy
And this guy
This one was cloaked as well
Another one was cloaked
Even cloakers have fail fits sometimes
This guy had balls of steel
Even cloaking badboys die
Decloak timers are a BEE-atch!

While cloaked, a cloaker is susceptible to AOE damage, interdiction, and being decloaked. The decloaking thing is trivial. I do it about one hundred times a week.

Here's how the argument is going, in case you missed it..

You: Nothing is blue
Me: The sky, the mediteranean, and my wife's eyes are blue
You: Nothing is blue
Me: Here's a couple of pictures of blue

30 luv, your serve
Lithia

FullNelson Mandella
Posted - 2010.05.14 03:10:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer

The real problem with cloaks are these Jan Brady types who can't stand it when somebody is in "their" system and cannot be found out and ganked.



Why not just find them and gank them?

FNM

Amanda Mor
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.14 08:35:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Lithia Tsanov
Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz
Originally by: Lithia Tsanov

Cloakers are not perfectly safe. They're extremely vulnerable when they decloak (more so than a non cloaking ship).



While cloaked, they are perfectly safe.



Once again, this is incorrect.

He was cloaked
So was this guy
And this guy
And this guy
This one was cloaked as well
Another one was cloaked
Even cloakers have fail fits sometimes
This guy had balls of steel
Even cloaking badboys die
Decloak timers are a BEE-atch!

While cloaked, a cloaker is susceptible to AOE damage, interdiction, and being decloaked. The decloaking thing is trivial. I do it about one hundred times a week.

Here's how the argument is going, in case you missed it..

You: Nothing is blue
Me: The sky, the mediteranean, and my wife's eyes are blue
You: Nothing is blue
Me: Here's a couple of pictures of blue

30 luv, your serve
Lithia


Without even bothering to look at any of those links, I will assume a couple things:
1) you're uber good at killing cloakers, since you've killed about 400 of them just this month, as you stated (multiple times)
2) you didn't scan any of those guys down while they were cloaked in a safe spot; how can I make this bold assumption? B/C you can't probe down cloaked ships (which is fine). You got all those kills on a gate, station, or in a belt (which is also fine, congratulations)

Now, this second assumption, if true, means none of those killmails has ANYTHING to do with what this thread is about. I know the presence of a cloak on those ships makes you think it must have some relevance to this thread, but it doesn't, trust me - people aren't complaining about cloaks, they're complaining about AFK cloakers, and there's a big difference.

It's really funny how you mock others for not getting it, when in fact you've missed the point so completely in your attempt to show us your super-duper killboard record...

Here's how your argument is going, in case you missed it (you did):
You: AFK cloakers aren't a problem, and here are killmails to show you that I've killed ships with cloaks on them
Me: None of those ships were cloaked afk at a safespot when you killed them
You: But they had cloaks, thus afk cloaking isn't a problem.
Me: *bangs head against wall*

PS Funny as well how the people who are defending the AFK cloaking mechanic point out that the Pilgrim is a pretty big threat to ratters, which kinda punches a big hole in their "cloaked ships are gimped and useless!!" argument...

Francais Tempest
Gallente
White Knights Imperius
Posted - 2010.05.14 12:29:00 - [82]
 

Here's the problem. The OP made it sound like the afk cloakers are a threat. This is false. The only reason they are upset is because they can't easilly kill em. Oh well get over it.

Santiago Fahahrri
Gallente
Galactic Geographic
Posted - 2010.05.14 13:06:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
One more time: there are a lot of cloakers out there who do it to survive. Exploration ships, freighters, people looking for a way home, you name it. Not everybody who is cloaked is a bully.

The real problem with cloaks are these Jan Brady types who can't stand it when somebody is in "their" system and cannot be found out and ganked.

Remove local and the Jan Bradys can go learn how to play the game.





This is exactly right. A method of finding cloaked ships in safe spots would destroy niche groups in 0.0 and w-space ... exploration teams and nomadic fleets based around cloaking orcas instead of POSes. The cloak is the "great equalizer" that allows small, independent groups to operate out in deep space. Without this tool, 0.0 would be limited to the biggest, blobbiest, bulliest groups. Keep space free; leave the cloak alone.

Ranka Lee
Amarr
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2010.05.14 13:17:00 - [84]
 

I'm cloaked in your thread, scaring your carebears LaughingTwisted EvilYARRRR!!ughWink

Ruhige Schmerz
New Eden Scientific Association
Posted - 2010.05.14 15:54:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Ruhige Schmerz on 14/05/2010 15:55:34
Originally by: Lithia Tsanov
Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz
Originally by: Lithia Tsanov

Cloakers are not perfectly safe. They're extremely vulnerable when they decloak (more so than a non cloaking ship).



While cloaked, they are perfectly safe.



Once again, this is incorrect.

He was cloaked
So was this guy
And this guy
And this guy
This one was cloaked as well
Another one was cloaked
Even cloakers have fail fits sometimes
This guy had balls of steel
Even cloaking badboys die
Decloak timers are a BEE-atch!

While cloaked, a cloaker is susceptible to AOE damage, interdiction, and being decloaked. The decloaking thing is trivial. I do it about one hundred times a week.

Here's how the argument is going, in case you missed it..

You: Nothing is blue
Me: The sky, the mediteranean, and my wife's eyes are blue
You: Nothing is blue
Me: Here's a couple of pictures of blue

30 luv, your serve
Lithia


Cute. Still wrong, but cute.

Show me the KM where you found and killed a cloaked ship (protip: doesn't have to be a covops etc., any ship will do) that was probed down at a safespot while cloaked, and then killed.

You can't, because it's impossible, and that's the entire point.

You know exactly what I'm saying, and you're purposely skirting around it so I have to refine the statement. That's fine, I should be more precise, but it just makes you a troll.

In the interest of being as precise as possible so you'll stop playing word games and looking for edge cases that are obviously unrelated to the discussion, I'll restate.

A cloaked ship, in a safespot off a celestial route line, is perfectly safe(*) until the driver decides to warp off or decloak.

This goes against the eve presumption that nobody is "safe" when undocked. I don't care one whit about "AFK cloakers", they don't bother me at all. I just don't like the idea of others (or myself) being perfectly safe outside a station if we choose to be.

If I SS up and cloak, you'll never find me unless I perform an action that allows you to find me. This needs addressed.

ETA: Missed this
(*)Perfectly safe meaning that, barring a random occurrence with an infinitesimal chance of happening, the ship cannot be found. There is of course some chance a random mission runner will end up at the safespot or something, but the chance is so close to zero that it doesn't matter.

N0N
Posted - 2010.05.14 16:56:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz

This goes against the eve presumption that nobody is "safe" when undocked.


And indeed they are not. When a cloaker decides to interact with someone, then they are as vulnerable as anyone else.
So what's the issue?

Ruhige Schmerz
New Eden Scientific Association
Posted - 2010.05.14 17:04:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: N0N
Originally by: Ruhige Schmerz

This goes against the eve presumption that nobody is "safe" when undocked.


And indeed they are not. When a cloaker decides to interact with someone, then they are as vulnerable as anyone else.
So what's the issue?


I'm finding it hard to believe that some of you are actually this dense.

Does a miner 'decide' to interact with someone when he gets jumped or suicide ganked? A hauler? A mission runner? No.

A cloaking device is the only device in game that requires the user to consent to pvp, even if only in some cases.

Rogue Baaco
Posted - 2010.05.14 17:49:00 - [88]
 

So are these people trying to argue that some pilot sitting afk at a safe spot 23/7 is a threat?

Wow... talk about being butthurt by losing your hulk in 0.0

Suggestion. Fit a cloak. Even the T1 cloaks are easy to fit. Otherwise highsec is that way -------------->

Kail Storm
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.05.14 18:20:00 - [89]
 

Local should be removed....But no ship should be unscannable...EVER

And the arguments saying the Cloaker is in a huge amount of danger as he enters the system is crap.
You need a Hic/Dic with at least 7-10 Fast Tacklers to get the Cloaky ships consistantly.

When I run gatecamps in my Cloaky`s if enemy has anything less than 7-10 fast tacklers and a Hic/Dic I laugh Jam in opposite direction that I uncloaked at so Tacklers cant hang with me, then even if 1 of them de-cloaks me I am usually past the bubble at this point and usually outside scram range of other supporting tacklers so I can warp off.

So even with a proper gang I`d give myself 60/40 odds and thats even if they knew I was coming.

Also I find it terrible that I cant be scanned down unlinke alot of these Griefer types who want there toys unchanged with no skill involved.

I like conflict, its why I play eve and AFK Cloaking and not being able to scann or probe down something is not that good for the whole safe if you fit 1 mod thing. These are the same guys who suicide gank and then say NO PLACE SHOULD BE SAFE which I agree with, but they also want to be totaly safe in there Cloaky`s....SORRY

TL DR
Take off local already, Make every ship scannable but make some harder than others, if this became a stat that mattered like Scan Res, Lock range ets it would be awesome.

No SHip should ever be 100% safe, and if you are in a safe spot and you warped there Cloaked it is 100% safe so AOE doesnt mean ****.

killmore
Posted - 2010.05.14 22:40:00 - [90]
 

what kind of pilots would actually use cloaks omg what douchebags


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