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Batolemaeus
Caldari
Free-Space-Ranger
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:32:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: CCP TomB

Is it the beer?


Whoa, long time no see. Shocked

Lord Helghast
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:36:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Jongo Fett
only problem i see with this is their being no real way to destroy structures on a planet, from orbit or other means.

This gives people the ability to have a safe income basically. I know its on the drawing board but its something that really is needed.

What happens when a system changes sov? do the previous inhabitants still have thier PI stuff intact?

However i am glad that CCP is keeping a team on to work on this feature. From playing around with it on SiSi alot its definitely something i will be trying on TQ. Though it would be nice if we didnt have to babysit it every 15 or so hours Cool


wud love to hear the response to what happens with a sov change over... safe income ... thats unless people start camping the orbital drop areas, and u just know that the ones with the high income planets in lowsec are going to majorly gatecamped lol

Aynen
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:39:00 - [153]
 

Edited by: Aynen on 21/04/2010 12:39:40
In terms of income, compaired to missioning and mining, where will PI be? If you compair lvl 4 missioning in high-sec to mining with a hulk in high-sec and to maximized PI in high-sec, what does the ballance look like?

Bado Sten
Minmatar
Republican Guard
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:45:00 - [154]
 

For connecting to FW, will there be a benefit to the structure owner if he belongs to the militia that holds occupancy of a low-sec system?

Yes, one can only hope, but it would make a nice connection and finally give the militias a reason to occupy systems. Cool

Aynen
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:46:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Bado Sten
For connecting to FW, will there be a benefit to the structure owner if he belongs to the militia that holds occupancy of a low-sec system?

Yes, one can only hope, but it would make a nice connection and finally give the militias a reason to occupy systems. Cool


Good one, I support that idea!

iP0D
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:47:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: CCP TomB

Is it the beer?


Omg, it's alive! Alive!


On a sidenote, the comment on inventing wheels is rather correct.

Vanden
Duty.
Duty. Private Security
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:50:00 - [157]
 

Edited by: Vanden on 21/04/2010 12:49:46
Originally by: Bado Sten
For connecting to FW, will there be a benefit to the structure owner if he belongs to the militia that holds occupancy of a low-sec system?

Yes, one can only hope, but it would make a nice connection and finally give the militias a reason to occupy systems. Cool


And let's not forget about the possibility for internal disputes as they scramble for the newly conquered resources. Twisted Evil

DarkJagang
Viaticus Consortium
Posted - 2010.04.21 13:13:00 - [158]
 

This may have already been talked about but.... I am a very lazy player and enjoy having other capsuleers doing the work for me. How will i be able to take advantage of someone else's hard work? (i.e. can flipping, war deccing, bumping)

Liorah
Posted - 2010.04.21 14:16:00 - [159]
 

Someone else mentioned the hex grid layout idea, and that's brilliant. Limit the numbers of available grids on each planet, and group them up into zones ... and allow everyone to see everyone else. Once one player drops a structure in a zone's grid, they have control of that full zone, and no one else can build in that zone. If you want that zone, you have to fight for it (later). If you want resources that are spread out, you need to control multiple zones.

Resource abundance in each zone should not change. It can be randomly generated initially, and then remains static. Planetary scans would show All Resources, with notation for zones that are taken, and All Available Resources, showing only available zones.

Resource abundance on planets becomes better as you move from hisec to nullsec. W-space is completely random.

NPC corps would be restricted to the mediocre or low resource zones, and would see the others as "Restricted". This could be further encouragement to leave the NPC corps.

The advantage for nullsec is no competition on zones, or competition based on agreements/alliances. In Empire, you can be wardec'd. In Lowsec, you can just be attacked. In nullsec, you control the whole system including the planet, so it's just you and your allies. This, in addition to the resource abundance.

Doing it this way, you make it MUCH easier to expand upon later on.

Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente
Imperial Tau Syndicate
POD-SQUAD
Posted - 2010.04.21 14:39:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Aynen
Originally by: Bado Sten
For connecting to FW, will there be a benefit to the structure owner if he belongs to the militia that holds occupancy of a low-sec system?

Yes, one can only hope, but it would make a nice connection and finally give the militias a reason to occupy systems. Cool


Good one, I support that idea!

you have my support as well!

Gigiarc
Gallente
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2010.04.21 14:45:00 - [161]
 

Looking forward to trying this. Also, whoever drew that mission impossible pic deserves a raise. :D

Fergus Runkle
Minmatar
Truth and Reconciliation Council
Posted - 2010.04.21 15:08:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Lockefox
I know the system on SISI is an individual effort, but I am curious about corp-level operations.

My hope is to be able to have players "deploy for corp" and therefore allow a corp to set up a network and have members with certain rights manage the inputs/outputs. If at the very least, I would like to see some functionality to allow proper corp members to harvest/resupply these operations, even if they could not change the minutia of the "black box".

Just my two ISK on the topic. I run a hardcore-industry corp already and we are watching PI news very closely. We are hoping that we can use some of our existing business models and as much of our talent on PI as possible. But without a way to harvest/resupply other corp member's bases, we are going to have a very hard time getting into the PI game on a corp level.


Seconding this, please let this be a corp activity as well as a solo player endeavour.

Also are the cycle timers likely to change ? Currently there is a lot of micro management involved, with some resource spots being so small as to exhaust themselves before I return from work. I thought the idea wasy to let this be a passive activity, with profitability scaling on time put into it. There will be a lot of casual players that will not be able to keep up with how fast things run out.

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2010.04.21 15:35:00 - [163]
 

Quote:

The special thing about this feature is that you do not necessarily need to get to the end products to make money off PI. A lot of the middle level commodities are used in T2 production and as Player Owned Starbase (POS) fuel


Yesssssss

Mohenna
Caldari
Knights of the Dark
Posted - 2010.04.21 16:06:00 - [164]
 

What's the isk to be done here?

I have some experience buying the npc goods for the pos fuel and frankly, either PI gives you a lot of product - and makes prices drop - or it isn't valuable for anyone but very young players. If this last one is the case it's actually a very good idea, providing an entry to new industrials that otherwise have to contend with old monopolies.

Liorah
Posted - 2010.04.21 16:08:00 - [165]
 

... And what is the purpose of planetary interaction, anyway?

Is it really only a POS on the surface of a planet intended to accomplish specific tasks (such as eliminating some NPC-seeded market goods), or is it intended to be a building block for something much more complex? Please be honest. Because from what I've read so far, it really sounds like you only intend this to be a way to produce NPC items and be a tie-in to DUST514, and that's all.

If you are honestly interested in expanding this concept to allow it to reach its full potential, there are MANY ways this can be used to enhance the overall game, not just the small subset that it appears to affect right now.

Ultimusbible
Posted - 2010.04.21 16:21:00 - [166]
 

First post.. ancient toon.. long time lurker!

I've been playing with PI since first pushed to the test server. I have a few points need to be addressed (some already mentioned).

* There needs to be a way to abandon or decommission a command center.
If there is a finite number based upon skills. If my corp, or simply my interests take me elsewhere in game. I have to permanent give up my ability to control a new command center in my area. (Assuming I am at or near cap).

A rediculously high command center count isn't practical either. So please provide us a method. In the short and long term this will be very useful. Make it a money sink if you must. This is a must have feature for those roaming the stars. Even give it a time limit if you must.

* Flag other players command centers. At the moment we cannot see other people's stuff in PI. I understand it's a significant feature to get going.

Is it possible in the short term to get "Flags" or a mark where another player's command center may be? I see some other issues that come from this as well, but trying to arrange a corp's industrial use of planets may involve several players command centers. We don't want to deplete the same resource again and again, so we may spread out.

* Question: Are deposits on planets, planetwide? Do we simply get more or less depending on the concentration in that area? So if someone is mining Heavy Metals in ... China.. (the 2240 deposit.. say).. will it share the same 2240 deposit that is visible in Germany? If, my previous point is irrelevant.

* Pin stacking feels a bit ackward. I have a planet manufacturing enriched uranium.. and only because I've stacked the crap out of the pins, and chained the links. Link CPU usage is too high perhaps? Maybe it needs a lower initial cpu cost, and a higher scaling over greater distances. Right now, my "city" looks like a blob of dots.

Thanks!

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 16:30:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: ElvenLord
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Part of the feedback we get from the CSM (and many of you), is that we donít put enough development time into features after they are released. In some cases, you are right, weíre stuck between the evolution of EVE and the rebuilding of feature infrastructure to help it grow. Sadly we canít clone ourselves (YET).


Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The end rewards will come off the NPC market. Basically you'll be able to build POS structures, sov structures, POS fuel (the NPC seeded parts), T2 components (the NPC seeded parts again), station components and nanite repair paste. Might be forgetting something, but that's it I think.


Its nice to be heard. Both development part and final product where a big part of our discussion on this expansion during CCP-CSM summit.

Would be nice if you would share info on/if there is ability to disrupt someones production (orbital bombardment) and stuff like that + link to Dust ...


Yeah. Mostly the issue is that our product is very shaped by our development. We'll find ideas that worked less well in practice, have to cut things out because of time constraints, or simply come up with better solutions down the road. Some people in this thread have pointed to what we showed as our vision at fanfest for example. The inherent risk we have, everytime we talk about the future, is that a product will never turn out in the exact shape and form it has in our heads x months before development.

So we could certainly share our current thoughts on disruption, but those are subject to change the closer we get to working on them :)

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 16:39:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Liorah
... And what is the purpose of planetary interaction, anyway?

Is it really only a POS on the surface of a planet intended to accomplish specific tasks (such as eliminating some NPC-seeded market goods), or is it intended to be a building block for something much more complex? Please be honest. Because from what I've read so far, it really sounds like you only intend this to be a way to produce NPC items and be a tie-in to DUST514, and that's all.

If you are honestly interested in expanding this concept to allow it to reach its full potential, there are MANY ways this can be used to enhance the overall game, not just the small subset that it appears to affect right now.


We're going to expand on it. This is round one, and come our next expansion, Team PI will deliver round two for you. DUST514 speculation I can't really comment on in any way, shape or form I'm afraid.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.21 16:58:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
... We're going to expand on it. This is round one, and come our next expansion, Team PI will deliver round two for you. DUST514 speculation I can't really comment on in any way, shape or form I'm afraid.

CCP Soundwave.. can you comment on how CCPs wants to move PI from instanced to non-consensual interaction mode later on, please?

I mean.. there is nothing except for our hangars in eve that is instanced. That's important for us.. ehrm.. me.. it's one world, one cold harsh world.. we.. erhm.. well I don't want instances here.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:00:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
... We're going to expand on it. This is round one, and come our next expansion, Team PI will deliver round two for you. DUST514 speculation I can't really comment on in any way, shape or form I'm afraid.

CCP Soundwave.. can you comment on how CCPs wants to move PI from instanced to non-consensual interaction mode later on, please?

I mean.. there is nothing except for our hangars in eve that is instanced. That's important for us.. ehrm.. me.. it's one world, one cold harsh world.. we.. erhm.. well I don't want instances here.


I cannot tell you specifics, other than that there will be conflict over PI in the future.

RentableMuffin
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:03:00 - [171]
 

Edited by: RentableMuffin on 21/04/2010 17:04:07
the submit button is hidden behind the chat window.... I spent a while setting a base up and then went to scan for stuff and it told me to actually build the thing, went looking for the button for quite a while Sad

as for colorblind mode, topographic maps use lines to show altitude, I would think you could use similar lines to show concentration. I think it would also help for low concentrations on most planets anyways as the blue is very faint and hard to see.

and boo! instanced Sad

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I cannot tell you specifics, other than that there will be conflict over PI in the future.


isn't it called dust514? Laughing

fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:03:00 - [172]
 

Edited by: fuxinos on 21/04/2010 17:04:26
And what about rockets? Evil or Very Mad

Ä: Btw, just what do we need those "end products" for?

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:04:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: fuxinos
And what about rockets? Evil or Very Mad


There will be rockets.

Aynen
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:11:00 - [174]
 

What are your expectations on player behaviour in orbit of planets where people are doing PI? (Especially in low sec and null sec.) And what mechanics will be in place to accomodate for player behaviour in orbit?

Kidney Seller
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:28:00 - [175]
 

Can you confirm that PI in Tyrannis (on TQ) will be instanced like on SiSi ?
While im pretty sure the answer is yes, I'd like to hear it from someone with blue bars :)

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:28:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Tres Farmer
CCP Soundwave.. can you comment on how CCPs wants to move PI from instanced to non-consensual interaction mode later on, please?

I cannot tell you specifics, other than that there will be conflict over PI in the future.

Hm.. I know that there will be conflict over PI, that's the core of EVE - conflict.
What I wanted to know was: How are you going to sort out, that for example there are 50 PCC and surrounding infrastructure right on top of each other in Perimeter II?

You where talking about districts. The first version of PI had hexagons on planets.. now we got neither and can't even see others people stuff down there?

I mean.. it's like, for example.. Jita 4-4 has no restrictions on Corp-Office-Hangar-Slots.. every corp can have an office there.
How are you going to sort that out and restrict it to 30 offices down the road?

Charge them all Rent? That's not conflict between the players. That's you making their life hard.

I don't want specifics.. a very rough blurry picture would be nice and sufficient. Thanks for reply anyways. Have a nice evening.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:33:00 - [177]
 

Originally by: Aynen
What are your expectations on player behaviour in orbit of planets where people are doing PI? (Especially in low sec and null sec.) And what mechanics will be in place to accomodate for player behaviour in orbit?

scooping up PLCs in orbit can't be easier if the mechanics doent get changed.. you're 99% safe (100% with a BR).
Using Orbital Cargo Links in Low sec.. prob only backwater systems or locals. Everybody else will be ganked right there. OCL in null or w-space should be fine.. not much red-traffic if you maange to live there.
High sec should be fine from the get go..

So to summarize:
Null and w-space will be fine.
Low will act as source for high sec processing planets.
Good thing there is way more low than high.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:35:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Kidney Seller
Can you confirm that PI in Tyrannis (on TQ) will be instanced like on SiSi ?
While im pretty sure the answer is yes, I'd like to hear it from someone with blue bars :)


I'm not entirely sure what you mean by instanced? They all tap into the same resource reserve, hopefully you'll be able to trade directly with other colonies in the future and really want some conflict in there too.

Kidney Seller
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:40:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Kidney Seller
Can you confirm that PI in Tyrannis (on TQ) will be instanced like on SiSi ?
While im pretty sure the answer is yes, I'd like to hear it from someone with blue bars :)


I'm not entirely sure what you mean by instanced? They all tap into the same resource reserve, hopefully you'll be able to trade directly with other colonies in the future and really want some conflict in there too.



Like, you know, will I be able to see other people's stuff ? Will we be on the same planet surface or will each of us get our personal copy of the planet we'll be able to exploit.
That's how instances work ;)
You said something about 'same resource reserve' - are you trying to say that if, let's say, 10 people (who dont know about each other if it's instanced) will mine on the same planet, the amounts mined will decrease and eventually deplete?

Thanks in advance

Liorah
Posted - 2010.04.21 17:51:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by instanced? They all tap into the same resource reserve, hopefully you'll be able to trade directly with other colonies in the future and really want some conflict in there too.

What seems to be the biggest concern is the fact that in the beginning, no one will see anyone else's installations. Does that mean:

1) You will try to build in a spot and be told "no, you can't build there"?

2) You can build anywhere, potentially on top of someone else's infrastructure.

In situation #1, that is non-instanced. There is one world, and two ground structures cannot occupy the same space in the same world.

In situation #2, that is instanced. You have your own little copy of the world, you can build what you want wherever you want, regardless of what anyone else does. The coordinates locating your installation in your instance could be the same coordinates someone else (or a hundred others) use in their instance; ie: many structures occupying the same space in multiple copies of the world.

If situation #2 is how things are going to work, so far the leading question has been: how will this be resolved when it comes to the point in time when we CAN see stuff belonging to others? A generic answer like "structures may be moved" or "the planet surface may be cleared/reset" is basically what people are looking for.

Unless of course you're trolling. And then the score is CCP Soundwave: 1, me: 0


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