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Erdiere
Minmatar
Erasers inc.
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2010.04.21 08:33:00 - [121]
 

I have to say I was really impressed with the progressively harder obstacles on the way to implement PI, with the horse being the last.

Masada Akiva
Gallente
Tribe Research and Development
Posted - 2010.04.21 09:11:00 - [122]
 

Now imagine if PI actually had to deal with volcanoes, minefields, and other interesting obstacles to build around... hmmm.

Arcane Azmadi
Caldari
First Flying Wing Inc
Primary.
Posted - 2010.04.21 09:20:00 - [123]
 

Well this sound rather more interesting than I was expecting (not to mention more accessible) but it still doesn't tell me the one thing I want to know- what will these new resources be used for? While it's good to know that the middle-ground resources can be used for T2 construction or POS fuel, what will the finished products be going towards? Basically, "Will Tyrannis have anything new of interest to combat pilots?"

wizard87
Posted - 2010.04.21 09:24:00 - [124]
 

This game has amazing potential, but due to development time constraints and a legacy of poor mechanics being implemented it will never fulfil it.

Planetary Interaction sounds cool, but you've basically said its a cut down version of your "idea" that you'll continue to work on. I've heard this many many times - I'm still waiting for COSMOS 2.0, Factional Warfare, POS "Dead horse" and Corp/Alliance improvements - which were due a long time ago?

This disparity between the "idea" you sell us for the future game, and the reality of those "ideas" when delivered to the game is what has cost you my subscription. I'll be using PLEX for the next couple of expansions until my ISK runs out. You'll get nothing more from me with your fake promises.

And no, I'm just cynical not a troll. Ta.

Verys
I Heart Chaos
Posted - 2010.04.21 09:32:00 - [125]
 

Edited by: Verys on 21/04/2010 09:34:33
I'm looking forward to the planetary interaction mechanics and I've been testing them a lot on the singularity server setting up several production lines. From what I've seen so far it's quite good although I've still got a few questions concerning the placement of structures:

- Are structures going to have a no-build radius or a negative modifie radius around them to prevent several buildings being build onto one giant heap?

- Are player able to define their own land by borders or districts so you won't have several players buildings across each others structures? (IMO this would add some more strategic placement instead of build build build).

- Is pollution going to play a role in the distribution of the materials or could you potentially increase production at cost of pollution?

Originally by: wizard87
I'll be using PLEX for the next couple of expansions until my ISK runs out. You'll get nothing more from me with your fake promises.



Right, because then ccp will then miss your income because nobody is paying for the plex's...

Cadde
Gallente
221st Century Warfare
Posted - 2010.04.21 09:35:00 - [126]
 

Originally by: Hirana Yoshida
Hmmmmm, unenlightening:
- With mid-level processed materials being fuel for POS, does that mean you are planning on removing it as NPC commodities somewhere down the line?
- How many base, mid-level and final products are in play here (ie. what is the scope of the thing)?
- How time intensive will it be in relation to the earning potential, you are not creating another Print-ISK™ button after the whole moon fiasco are you?
- Can I crack my neighbours golden eggs with pew?
- Is it going to be a monstrous click-fest similar to what you made probing into, no fun being forced to not do something in a game when it causes actual physical pain?


I shall try and answer the above to the best of my ability since they are good questions.

- On SISI all NPC goods created by PI is stripped off the market. (And last time i checked you couldn't even place buy/sell orders, lets hope they fix that)
- The scope is quite large but still not wide as you currently can produce two things, Pos fuel and T2 materials, only catering to two markets. However there is one more end product that i know nothing about and it has something to do with building wetware mainframes and all that stuff. These could possibly lead to the FINAL stage of PI, whatever that may be.
- So far it's VERY time intensive and tedious and the returns are as stated, pos fuels and T2 building materials. It all depends on how much of this stuff is stocked up on before launch and as far as i can tell, people are stockpiling a lot of this stuff so it will be practically worthless (NPC prices) in the early days after the initial "ZOMG, it's gone from the market" hype. (Oh and one more thing, construction blocks used in outpost construction)
- No, you cannot PvP in any other way than outproduce your opponents... (Good luck with that) or plot down your extractors on the exact same spots as your opponents... (Good luck knowing where they put these things since you can't see other peoples installations yet. Maybe in soon™ years?)
- YES. Your fingers are going to fall off from all the excessive clicking.

CCP TomB

Posted - 2010.04.21 09:44:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Fearless M0F0
Quote:
We decided to co-locate the primary gameplay teams, so the first thing that happened was Team Pi and Team Best Friends Forever (Best Pie Forever?) moved into a cozy new work area, setting up sofas, “scrum” walls (named after our development methodology), cases of beer, workstations and then fired up their engines.


As a certified SCRUMmaster, I read this and went /o\

You guys are doing a great job with SCRUM but are falling in the trap of "reinventing the wheel" modifying and complicating a very simple process. I recommend you seriously consider hiring a SCRUM consultant to check on your process (no, not me YARRRR!!, an expert such as Mike Cohn)

I posted a few days ago about the fact of deploying incomplete features such as missing graphics in sisi was a sign of not doing SCRUM properly.... I was right Neutral. I hope you guys manage to get it done on time.



Is it the beer?

Aynen
Posted - 2010.04.21 09:47:00 - [128]
 

I'm wondering, with all the hoovering around planets people will be doing because they're interacting with those planets, and the standard warp in point towards a planet is pretty much the same for everyone, what can players do to keep their orbital operations safe? With rockets launching things into space from the surface, what prevents people from stealing what's inside those rockets before you get to it?
Will you be able to build some kind of orbital defence system so you have a relatively safe bit of orbiting space around your planet?

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 09:51:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Imbosol Norand
@CCP Devs working on this project.

I have had the occasion to do a little testing of the new features and so far i am liking it. I do however have one complaint and that is the scanning overlays.

Can there be an option for BLOCK colours when scanning a resource. As someone who has severe colour blindness, seeing some of those see though colours is very hard, to the point where on certain planets like ice and gas giants, i cannot see the overlays at all on certain resources.

I am sure that other colour and visually impaired peoples will find this is hard to see at times also.

Thanks.


We're aware of these issues and are trying to solve them. I can't promise anything but we're looking into a button that makes the view more colour blind friendly.

Imuran
Zentor Industries
Posted - 2010.04.21 10:00:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Imuran on 21/04/2010 10:00:12
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We're aware of these issues and are trying to solve them. I can't promise anything but we're looking into a button that makes the view more colour blind friendly.


Yes please - on Sisi I am just about guessing where to put things and hope there is something there to extract [8)

Komi Toran
Posted - 2010.04.21 10:06:00 - [131]
 

i've played with PI, and yes, like most here, i too went from joy to disappointment. It is a lot of tedium for not much reward (and I'm of the opinion that, in a game, tedium should not be required for any reward). Anyway, I'll just give two suggestions:

-Allow us to upgrade all buildings, not just PCCs. The most important things to upgrade outside the PCC are the extractors. Going back to a planet and re-scanning and re-routing eight or nine extractors is not fun. Letting us cut it down to two or three will make PI less of a chore.

-Be more forgiving with links. Give us a good amount of slack with them before CPU and PG costs start rising. Right now, colony design is mind-numbingly boring: find a white spot for the resource you're going to mine, put your PCC down next to it, and cram the immediate vicinity with extractors and processors. Don't bother with any other resource 'cause those links will eat all your CPU by the time you get there. There's no strategy to it at all. If, instead, we could use careful planning of our processor layouts to let us reach for that pocket of base metals here and those toxic metals there, it would be more interesting.

Blue Harrier
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.21 10:08:00 - [132]
 

Quote:
We're aware of these issues and are trying to solve them. I can't promise anything but we're looking into a button that makes the view more colour blind friendly.


If you manage that you will be my hero for ever.

Many years ago I purchased the game ‘Sid Meier’s Alpha Centauri’ and had great difficulty playing the game as I could not distinguish the ‘squares’ properly, then someone produced a ‘colour blind’ version of the ‘squares’ and the game came alive for me.

So yes please, pretty please etc.

Nukleanis
Falcon Advanced Industries
Posted - 2010.04.21 10:13:00 - [133]
 

So... Starbases in 2D?

With all the good stuff like ecological, social and territorial impacts absent, how precisely am I to rule benevolently and treat my subjects well or beat them into submission (see also: Tyrannis teaser) if I'm not given the means to do so, or measure the impact I'm having upon them?

gorak cz
Thundercats
B O R G
Posted - 2010.04.21 10:32:00 - [134]
 

Main purpous will be to make things and sell to NPC !!!!
Im kinda worried about infation spirale goin mad, am I only one ? Does any "economic (not ekoterorist) dev" looked deeper into numbers and such Sad

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 10:42:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: gorak cz
Main purpous will be to make things and sell to NPC !!!!
Im kinda worried about infation spirale goin mad, am I only one ? Does any "economic (not ekoterorist) dev" looked deeper into numbers and such Sad


You should not be able to sell these commodities to NPC, it's designed to be player to player trade.



Draco Argen
Posted - 2010.04.21 10:59:00 - [136]
 

As I begun reading the blog I thought "Ugh, another brand spanking new idea that will become obscure and neglected by the next two releases"...and you listened....by the time i got half way throught the blog lol.

Team PI carrying on for next release, not just post release namby patching we have seen before, is an excellent move. I think you need to go a lot further in committing to your existing babies (POSes, FW, WH, scanning, fittings window, skill-que, and many more I'm sure even I have forgotten) But this is an excellent start.

* Please consider banning "right click" from words used by your UI designers. Mouse vs keyboard UI is WAY too unbalanced or uni-modal as it is. Hitting right click menus in combat is like hitting the proverbial bulls eye. I'm sad to see no new simple large logo or keyboard UI was implemented for PI (on sisi) :P (by the way, quit corporation in right click menu...wtf?!)
An example of an excellent idea you had, ctrl click to target, multi modal = good. Mouse is for learning UI, keyboard for heavy users, both is FTW.

I'm sad to say I'm having to consider dropping Eve for a while due to RSI (work vs Eve, work wins). Other games I play cause me far less hassle.

Still, I will wait out Tyranis and play a while.

Also;
* Seeding NPC items via player creation...both Brave and VERY cool! Your Dr in Economics's job just got a whole lot more interesting.

GL Team PI and BFF in the final stages

Draco Argen
Posted - 2010.04.21 11:08:00 - [137]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave

I suggested hiring monkeys once, but CCP t0rfifrans told me that they are actually relatively expensive and while it's a fun idea it's not very cost effective. True story.


I had to tweet that, made me laugh my ass off.

Also, when creating routes in PI, can the max be set to the amount of product available, or at least be prompted. Guessing at it, or having to close the window and check is a pita.
ty

Aynen
Posted - 2010.04.21 11:15:00 - [138]
 

Will there be a tuturial agent who explains to new players how PI works, just like for the other aspects of the game?

Tracia Pandragon
Posted - 2010.04.21 11:16:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Tracia Pandragon on 21/04/2010 11:33:45
Originally by: CCP Soundwave


1. There will be some planets that will be barred, but as a general rule, yes, all areas.
2. You fly out, pick a spot :)
3. There is a post off the planet where you can pick your stuff up. Like a small stationary object.
4. Well 0.0 space will have the highest rewards, so there will be an advantage to being in a sov holding alliance.

Now back to playing EVE.


Regarding No. 4:
What are all those poor Pets renting Space from the Sov Holding Alliances going to do?
Is there a way to use the PI feature in that space even if you are only "blue" to the Sov Holding Alliance?

Thx in advance!
Edit: Määäh Quoting Fail :)

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 11:20:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Draco Argen
As I begun reading the blog I thought "Ugh, another brand spanking new idea that will become obscure and neglected by the next two releases"...and you listened....by the time i got half way throught the blog lol.

Team PI carrying on for next release, not just post release namby patching we have seen before, is an excellent move. I think you need to go a lot further in committing to your existing babies (POSes, FW, WH, scanning, fittings window, skill-que, and many more I'm sure even I have forgotten) But this is an excellent start.



I think so too. One of the things you benefit from when you've been around for a few years, is learning from your mistakes. I think you'll see, over the next few years, a much healthier approach to the way we make games. This is the first time we've set aside a team to keep working on something before it's even released and it's awesome.

I SoStoned
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.21 11:20:00 - [141]
 

Having tested the PI interface I have one serious beef... the mining times are too short. Not the cycle times, they're fine, but the duration it takes to mine a resource.

Everything I've tested thus far is between five and seven hours for 'maximum' resource potential, unless someone else is mining the same block (haven't tested proximal effects yet).

Unfortunately 5-7 hours is too short for a sleep cycle or a work cycle (I actually work 12 hour days, which comes out to 14 hours getting ready for, going to, returning from, and cycling down). There should be a method to extend the mining period beyond those short durations.

Such as: Automatically cycling to the next lowest resource on that particular site and continuing with a new timer (after a brief delay to re-survey and re-initialize the boring machines or air combs) or the like.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 11:22:00 - [142]
 

Originally by: Aynen
Will there be a tuturial agent who explains to new players how PI works, just like for the other aspects of the game?


We don't have a specific tutorial for PI in this release, which is a shame. We're developing a wikipedia page, and you'll get some hints on how to get started, but not a stand-alone tutorial. Hopefully in the future, because this feature really deserves it.

Zhula Guixgrixks
Increasing Success by Lowering Expectations
Posted - 2010.04.21 11:53:00 - [143]
 

10/10 for the dev blog images :-)

Freidrich Nietchize
Gallente
Capitalist Pigs Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:01:00 - [144]
 

Quote:
Team Pi and Team Best Friends Forever have provided game design, UI and programming, Team Tri Lambda provided art/graphics and Team Commie Pinkos worked on commodities/writing and generally put out fires that eventually arose.


The NC would like to officially state that we do not recognize anyone from CCP as being on 'our team'.

Pippan
Gallente
Jupiter Force
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:01:00 - [145]
 

Aww. I was hoping I'd be able to nuke structures from 250km orbit in my TachApoc...Sad

Sciencegeek deathdealer
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:04:00 - [146]
 

is someone going to shoot the command center staff union? (ie can we decomission pccs if there is going to be a limit on the number of planets we can use?)

Vanden
Duty.
Duty. Private Security
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:18:00 - [147]
 

Edited by: Vanden on 21/04/2010 12:31:33
Edited by: Vanden on 21/04/2010 12:19:49
Quote:
Spaceports. Spaceports are used to transport your goods to and from space. This bi-directional structure is the “official” way of shipping goods between your colony and space (or the reverse). If you for some reason are unable to use your spaceport, your command center will provide an alternative launch option; the rocket can, which launches your wares into orbit at a random point around the planet.


This quote seems to suggest that using an Orbital link the only way to send stuff down to the surface, is that right?

And if 0.0 sovereignty has an effect on the placement of PI structures, does Factional Warfare occupancy also play a role?

Lord Helghast
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:20:00 - [148]
 

Edited by: Lord Helghast on 21/04/2010 12:22:29
Originally by: CCP Nimbus
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I've heard this "we'll update it!" before, namely in Empyrean Age (factional warfare) and Apocrypha (T3 ships/subsystems, more content in wormholes, epic failarcs, etc).



This.

Quote:

When are the FW exploits going to be fixed? When will FW actually be featurecomplete, for that matter?
Where are our dozens of branching epic mission arcs?
Where is the rest of T3?
What happened to the industrial expansion? Where are the storefronts?
When will we get that expansion that would make large alliances actually use their 0.0 space, and force players to spread out to to capture a system instead of bringing one massive blob? Where are the treaties?
What's up with the lag?


And this.

Sorry but saying now that "You've never hear us promise a development team that continues iterating for a release. If so, I missed it." is just bull****. So next time be sure not to false advertise stuff like 5x5x5x5x5 subsystems for t3s(we are still lacking 2101 possibilities per every strat cruiser = around 8400 combinations that were promised but never appeared in game), COSMOS in every solar system or loads of epic arcs ok?


I'm on Team Pi - the team which (somewhere between all the pictures of dubious quality) CCP Soundwave mentioned in his devblog would be continuing to work on planetary interaction. We have already begun laying down some goals and plans for what we want to achieve in the next release - so yes, we really are going to be continuing to develop the feature. Having said that, we are leaving plenty of room in our plans for the feedback we get from you guys after we release, and it's something we are really looking forward to doing.



IS IT POSSIBLE that we get a wiki with the current planned and in-development features for PI so that we can track and build off it and see whats already on the drawing board? and ETA's....

was wondering what happened to the space elevator and .. you know reasons for the space elevator being awesome, so far we've yet to see it.

also will team pi be releasing updates to PI in incriments (the minor patches 0.01) which would really be nice, or only in large scale expansions like the winter expansion?

I have to agree with everyone though, the lack of info on t3 frigates, treaties, other ship redesigns, comets, INCARNA, i mean come on sneak us a little something of whats on the drawing board already and their eta's.....


ElvenLord
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:21:00 - [149]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Part of the feedback we get from the CSM (and many of you), is that we don’t put enough development time into features after they are released. In some cases, you are right, we’re stuck between the evolution of EVE and the rebuilding of feature infrastructure to help it grow. Sadly we can’t clone ourselves (YET).


Originally by: CCP Soundwave
The end rewards will come off the NPC market. Basically you'll be able to build POS structures, sov structures, POS fuel (the NPC seeded parts), T2 components (the NPC seeded parts again), station components and nanite repair paste. Might be forgetting something, but that's it I think.


Its nice to be heard. Both development part and final product where a big part of our discussion on this expansion during CCP-CSM summit.

Would be nice if you would share info on/if there is ability to disrupt someones production (orbital bombardment) and stuff like that + link to Dust ...

Jongo Fett
Caldari
Save Yourself Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.21 12:31:00 - [150]
 

only problem i see with this is their being no real way to destroy structures on a planet, from orbit or other means.

This gives people the ability to have a safe income basically. I know its on the drawing board but its something that really is needed.

What happens when a system changes sov? do the previous inhabitants still have thier PI stuff intact?

However i am glad that CCP is keeping a team on to work on this feature. From playing around with it on SiSi alot its definitely something i will be trying on TQ. Though it would be nice if we didnt have to babysit it every 15 or so hours Cool


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