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Matalino
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:01:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
On a heavier note:
In testing, it seems to be a tad difficult and a lot of tweaking to get all the rates and flows to work seamlessly, particularly when you have deposits continually exhausting themselves like they do. Making sure that enough of materials A and B get to a factory for production is exceedingly tricky. I like micromanaging, but its a bit much.

Currently, the only cost for a complete restructure of your colony is the time spent rearranging everything. (Are PI nodes going to remain free? If there is a cost added for building/improving structures will there be a salvage value for taking them down?)

As such I have found it most effective to focus on harvesting one component at a time. Build a command structure or storage facility, route all of the harvestors to the storage facility, then route the materials from the storage facility to the processor. There is no wasted materials; you can easily see how harest volumes compare to processing volumes; and when it is time to change products you can easily ship the goods to a new storage facility and restructure your harvesters and processors.

IE: spend a week harvesting Industrial Fibers; spend another week harvesting fertilizer; then spend a day or two combining them into industrial explosives.

However, in high and low sec I have noticed that there is a shortage of several raw materials. It appears that these might need to be harvested in null sec or w-space.

Radgette
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:02:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: Radgette on 20/04/2010 23:02:51
how much can CCP soundwave avoid the difficult ( and only questions we really want answered ) questions about :

1 ) what was said at fanfest compared to what we got. ie districts

2 ) how currently the effort/reward ratio is completely out of whack.

3 ) if we require a skill to exploit multiple planets will the amount of industry we can utilize on each planet be increased so i don't need an army of alts to go from stage 1 through 6

and the other pertinent queries in this thread regarding the somewhat screwed current version.

i'm relatively new to eve and already i have low expectations as to recent CCP product quality compared to what i have seen has been released previously and thats not really a great sign.




CCP Atropos

Posted - 2010.04.20 23:05:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Solo Player
No production of trade goods, then?

Here I was really hoping something would finally be done with them...

You can produce livestock on SiSi which I don't think is used for anything outside of trade and possibly more complex PI products.

mmm... hamburgers...

Jardine Khan
Caldari
Grey Wolves Mercenary Guild
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:07:00 - [64]
 

I've not been on SISI so I'm not sure exactly what's going down, but what I see looks good. But there are some questions:

1. What planets? All of them, i.e. empire, low and null sec, and WH?
2. How do you decide on where and on what planet you can harvest? Is it assigned to the player, and if so, is it random or is there a method to the madness? Or does the player get to pick the spot and planet?
3. Getting stuff to space: it seems there are two methods, one being a glorified jet can, the other being a "spaceport". How does the spaceport help get stuff off the planet? Do you get to fly an industrial or freighter planetside to pick up the stuff or does it do the teleport to cargohold ala Star Trek? As for the glorified jet can, is it just as vulnerable to theft as a normal jet can or is it protected somehow?
4. Are there advantages for PI when in a corp/alliance? Or does the player being in a corp/alliance have no revelance on PI?

TheCursedWriter
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:10:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: TheCursedWriter
AWESOME! Awesome for 3 things-
1) Some of the market floors are going to be removed.
2) A new profession that fills a new niche and is useable by everyone is comeing out. (I think it super awesome, being an industrial player, to get some industry love.)
3) A CCP'er is pressing F5 along with us!!!!!! <- biggest foward movement since i started!

I would like to hear however on the ability to expand the pcc (if its possible) and info on pricing and max plants. (includeing if we will be able to delete pccs if this is the case)

-peacekeeper


I'm F5ing slowly right now because I'm playing EVE Cool


A FOURTH REASON! CCP SOUNDWAVE FOR PRESIDENT!

Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:11:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Driven Marcelli on 20/04/2010 23:16:36
Originally by: Jardine Khan
I've not been on SISI so I'm not sure exactly what's going down, but what I see looks good. But there are some questions:

1. What planets? All of them, i.e. empire, low and null sec, and WH?
2. How do you decide on where and on what planet you can harvest? Is it assigned to the player, and if so, is it random or is there a method to the madness? Or does the player get to pick the spot and planet?
3. Getting stuff to space: it seems there are two methods, one being a glorified jet can, the other being a "spaceport". How does the spaceport help get stuff off the planet? Do you get to fly an industrial or freighter planetside to pick up the stuff or does it do the teleport to cargohold ala Star Trek? As for the glorified jet can, is it just as vulnerable to theft as a normal jet can or is it protected somehow?
4. Are there advantages for PI when in a corp/alliance? Or does the player being in a corp/alliance have no revelance on PI?



1)
from what we know on SiSi its suposed to be all of them in all space, however some of them are currently buggered to hell for whatever reason and they plan to change the "Seeding" to fix issues with that that have come up (some resorces seed at <5% for no aparent reason, some planets have resource distribution that makes no sence whatsoever,and other planets in empire are solid white on the scans

2) use the new onboard scanner that your ship is fit with currently then look for a resorce hotspot and then you decide if its worth the bother for each avalible resource.

3) right now its a bit buggy but it works the same way as getting things to the planet. its an orbital structure that shows up on the overview from anywhere in system so its fairly easy to bockade

right now the jetcan in space keeps showing up at the exact same spot but thats a bug and will change. otherwise its a normal jet can, but since you can (currently) lanch then warp to where it is, grab, and warp out its probably not going to be that big of a deal once they make the landing point more random

4) right now not realy apart from making it easer to make the higher level items

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:15:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Jardine Khan
I've not been on SISI so I'm not sure exactly what's going down, but what I see looks good. But there are some questions:

1. What planets? All of them, i.e. empire, low and null sec, and WH?
2. How do you decide on where and on what planet you can harvest? Is it assigned to the player, and if so, is it random or is there a method to the madness? Or does the player get to pick the spot and planet?
3. Getting stuff to space: it seems there are two methods, one being a glorified jet can, the other being a "spaceport". How does the spaceport help get stuff off the planet? Do you get to fly an industrial or freighter planetside to pick up the stuff or does it do the teleport to cargohold ala Star Trek? As for the glorified jet can, is it just as vulnerable to theft as a normal jet can or is it protected somehow?
4. Are there advantages for PI when in a corp/alliance? Or does the player being in a corp/alliance have no revelance on PI?


1. There will be some planets that will be barred, but as a general rule, yes, all areas.
2. You fly out, pick a spot :)
3. There is a post off the planet where you can pick your stuff up. Like a small stationary object.
4. Well 0.0 space will have the highest rewards, so there will be an advantage to being in a sov holding alliance.

Now back to playing EVE.

CCP Nimbus

Posted - 2010.04.20 23:21:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I've heard this "we'll update it!" before, namely in Empyrean Age (factional warfare) and Apocrypha (T3 ships/subsystems, more content in wormholes, epic failarcs, etc).



This.

Quote:

When are the FW exploits going to be fixed? When will FW actually be featurecomplete, for that matter?
Where are our dozens of branching epic mission arcs?
Where is the rest of T3?
What happened to the industrial expansion? Where are the storefronts?
When will we get that expansion that would make large alliances actually use their 0.0 space, and force players to spread out to to capture a system instead of bringing one massive blob? Where are the treaties?
What's up with the lag?


And this.

Sorry but saying now that "You've never hear us promise a development team that continues iterating for a release. If so, I missed it." is just bull****. So next time be sure not to false advertise stuff like 5x5x5x5x5 subsystems for t3s(we are still lacking 2101 possibilities per every strat cruiser = around 8400 combinations that were promised but never appeared in game), COSMOS in every solar system or loads of epic arcs ok?


I'm on Team Pi - the team which (somewhere between all the pictures of dubious quality) CCP Soundwave mentioned in his devblog would be continuing to work on planetary interaction. We have already begun laying down some goals and plans for what we want to achieve in the next release - so yes, we really are going to be continuing to develop the feature. Having said that, we are leaving plenty of room in our plans for the feedback we get from you guys after we release, and it's something we are really looking forward to doing.

Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:23:00 - [69]
 

Good to hear! now please nerft the ability to stack pins right next to eachother!Laughing I doubt the number of extractors you can put down that was was intended!

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2010.04.20 23:28:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Sadly we canít clone ourselves (YET).


Why make it so difficult, keep it simple. You've got plenty men and women working at the offices. Doesn't take a genius to suggest some, um, other options ...

Cool


I think you're overestimating the cost/benefit rewards of having kids.


Didn't we ban all EVE staff from building or owning children last month?

CCP Nimbus

Posted - 2010.04.20 23:31:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Radgette
Edited by: Radgette on 20/04/2010 23:02:51
how much can CCP soundwave avoid the difficult ( and only questions we really want answered ) questions about :

1 ) what was said at fanfest compared to what we got. ie districts

2 ) how currently the effort/reward ratio is completely out of whack.

3 ) if we require a skill to exploit multiple planets will the amount of industry we can utilize on each planet be increased so i don't need an army of alts to go from stage 1 through 6

and the other pertinent queries in this thread regarding the somewhat screwed current version.

i'm relatively new to eve and already i have low expectations as to recent CCP product quality compared to what i have seen has been released previously and thats not really a great sign.




1) No districts for Tyrannis - we simply couldn't have done it justice. This certainly doesn't mean they are never going to come, though. As Soundwave mentioned in his devblog, we're going to continue to work on and improve planetary interaction.

2) The Team Pi and Team Best Friends Forever designers are still working on balancing many of the details of planetary interaction. We're keeping them on a program of bad 80s music to try to increase productivity.

3) Again, still being balanced - but there will be ways to expand your colony size.

rantuket
Caldari
SPORADIC MOVEMENT
Merciless.
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:32:00 - [72]
 

So PI is essentially moon mining without the moon? (ignoring the different materials etc) The set-and-forget model does not really create a hot feeling of excitement in my loins.

Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:35:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: rantuket
So PI is essentially moon mining without the moon? (ignoring the different materials etc) The set-and-forget model does not really create a hot feeling of excitement in my loins.
um no moon mining is no where nearly as annoying as this is currently Laughing

Masada Akiva
Gallente
Tribe Research and Development
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:36:00 - [74]
 

Whatever else you do, it would be cool if the PI could introduce some "gameplay" to Eve. Most of Eve's mechanics rely on skills to build objects that produce resources over time. This makes "playing" Eve mostly a matter of flying around getting skills/objects and then waiting for resources to be produced. The real "game" part of Eve is PvP or mission running. Wouldn't it be cool if there were other ways to play Eve?

PI has potential to be a game unto itself. Something like "SIM Planet". Perhaps planetary storms could damage gear requiring repair from space... or "rebels" destroy a link thus encouraging some defense turrets or something. While I know CCP is looking to DUST 514 to provide some PI altering mechanics, there is nothing stopping some NPC/AI inspired adversity. Perhaps some planets are harder to use than others (lava field vs. barren). Maybe specific PI modules are required to deal with heat/storms/earthquakes/hostile life forms. Perhaps there can be a planetary NPC economy (like selling Planetary Vehicles direct to that planet or between planets).

At the moment, PI looks like a more complex version of Moon Harvesting... *yawn*. Great ISK, but not exactly exciting all by itself.

Forceful Peacekeeper
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:36:00 - [75]
 

when is the next sisi patch going to be deployed with all this yummyness!
any info on:
1) max planets (will it always be possible to have more if you have skills)
2) pcc scaleablility (increases in storage or cpu and such by upgrades like the links)
3) polution/population (will it be in this expansion)
4) any possibility of a corp working as one? (ie setting stuff up as a corp)
5) how does this affect the servers?

hope this will work as a full blown proffession cause it sounds sweet includeing whats on sisi!

LuminousAxle
Caldari
Apollyon Unbound
It Burns When I PvP.
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:45:00 - [76]
 

Quick question will the spaceports/elevators be available in WH's?, if so it would make me wounder how they got there.


Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:46:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: CCP Fallout
What's the 411 on Planetary Interaction? Read CCP Soundwave's blog to find out!


Looks great!

A question, are there any plans on bringing Incarna features into Planetary Interaction? Like being able to walk around your small eden industry colony? Would be a great expansion by itself some time after Incarna have been released. Would be nice getting some fresh air and vegetation under your shoes you know! Cool


Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:50:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: LuminousAxle
Quick question will the spaceports/elevators be available in WH's?, if so it would make me wounder how they got there.


you put then there

Bascialy any world without a PI platform next to it does not have any Player Industry on it

as soon as you put a working structure on the planet though it spawns the orbial terminal

Krennel Darius
Caldari
EON Solutions
The Laughing Men
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:54:00 - [79]
 

Nice fail blog you've go there Soundwave. Any word on when rockets are getting fixed?

ClearBlackIce
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:58:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Krennel Darius
Nice fail blog you've go there Soundwave. Any word on when rockets are getting fixed?

well.. thats a great way to treat the people who work to create and maintain the game... wonder why they dont just stop and disconnect the servers?


GOT RESPECT?

Nauplius
Amarr
1st Praetorian Guard
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:59:00 - [81]
 

Slaves are an NPC good used in the building of Amarr Outpost stuff. Are we going to be able to manufacture Slaves on planets, too? (You'd make a lot of RP people happy if you could....)

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.21 00:00:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Nauplius
Slaves are an NPC good used in the building of Amarr Outpost stuff. Are we going to be able to manufacture Slaves on planets, too? (You'd make a lot of RP people happy if you could....)


No, but if we introduce population and labor, they are an obvious choice there.

Anyway, passing 12 at night here, I'm going to sleep a little before work tomorrow.

Mkah Mvet
Duolith Systems
Posted - 2010.04.21 00:06:00 - [83]
 

Is it just me or is the only point in having Dusters attack your neighbors just to grief them? I know Dust isn't out yet, but still. As it is now, I've seen flash based games with more player to player interaction. Devs have said in this thread that there will be practically no competition for resources on the planet itself. So far PI feels like jumping through hoops to get stuff done that was just jumping through hoops before. There are a dozen posts in this thread about how to make this expansion fun instead of tedious.

Also off topic dev posts makes it feel like they are avoiding legitimate concerns and questions of the players. It feels like the devs are saying to us "I'm just making a flash-quality expansion to get my paycheck, now leave me alone so I can get back to playing games." (I like that the devs are responding, but responses about how employing monkeys isn't cost effective is not a useful response.) Which is also what half-assed expansions feel like the devs are saying to us too. :(

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.04.21 00:13:00 - [84]
 

Edited by: Alexeph Stoekai on 21/04/2010 06:50:57

What happened to having other things than industry on your planets?

What happened to the idea of environmental effects like pollution?

This has taken a sharp turn from Promising, New and Engaging to Same Old. It really is just moon mining and POS industry, without the upkeep costs (and the income).

Sure, you can say you'll add them (well, more like something close but not enough) later, but stuff like districts and environmental spill-over is really stuff that needed to be included at the foundation of the system. I'm sorry guys, but you haven't brought any innovations here, and if you ever figure out how to solve all that fine stuff you teased us with you won't be able to just tack it on. You'll end up with Sov all over again. What you have build now is the equivalent of the pos system (if not a complete copy), and it does not look suitable for further development in a way that makes PI... good.

It might be an idea to just tape Torfi, Noah, Hilmar and Nathan's mouths shut during Fanfest, because you producers really don't seem able to deliver on their lofty promises.

EDIT: No, I'm not quite done ranting.

Can you in all honesty promise that there will be teams dedicated to continued development of PI? Because you really (really) have said the same of: Factional Warfare (a feature that had been promised for years and when it was released was evidently flawed - further development and refinement was promised), Wormholes and Exploration (Come on! You made such a big deal out of Apocrypha and W-space being the foundation of a mechanic you would expand on. What the hell happened there?) and Dominion (HELLO!? Treaties!?).

Even if you do manage to keep up continuous development for PI (and god knows you really need to considering how it looks right now), should you? All of the things up there need developers on them. I'm starting to agree with the people calling for a Feature Stop until you get the old **** sorted, because with your track record it seems like you'll just leave half-baked features in your wake otherwise.

There, steam vented I guess.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.04.21 00:14:00 - [85]
 

1. Instanced or not? i.e. can we see other player's structures? Can two players use the same area at the same time without even being aware of each other?

2. If so, how are you going to later add geographically aware features like districts into it, when everyone's bases are piled on top of each other?

3. Is the positive spin on the lack of features in the blog (opportunity to incorporate feedback going forward etc) a reaction to the immense negative spin on same on the forums? rhetorical, never mind

4. On Sisi, last time I looked, you cannot remove the HQ building (whatever it is called). What if you reach your max planets limit, and want to abandon one of your current planets for another one? I assume we'll be able to do that?

5. Will there be any other teams working on any of the other unfinished stuff, or only one this one, which leads into your new console game? never mind, not gonna get an answer to that

6. Why aren't we just gonna see empire planets become useless within a month as everyone and their dog alt sets up shop on a planet?

7. Is the full trailer going to mention ruling with benevolence/tyranny?

Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
Posted - 2010.04.21 00:33:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Crumplecorn
1. Instanced or not? i.e. can we see other player's structures? Can two players use the same area at the same time without even being aware of each other?

2. If so, how are you going to later add geographically aware features like districts into it, when everyone's bases are piled on top of each other?

3. Is the positive spin on the lack of features in the blog (opportunity to incorporate feedback going forward etc) a reaction to the immense negative spin on same on the forums? rhetorical, never mind

4. On Sisi, last time I looked, you cannot remove the HQ building (whatever it is called). What if you reach your max planets limit, and want to abandon one of your current planets for another one? I assume we'll be able to do that?

5. Will there be any other teams working on any of the other unfinished stuff, or only one this one, which leads into your new console game? never mind, not gonna get an answer to that

6. Why aren't we just gonna see empire planets become useless within a month as everyone and their dog alt sets up shop on a planet?

7. Is the full trailer going to mention ruling with benevolence/tyranny?


1 right now no, not untill they do the DUST 514 intigration

2 Right now thats up in the air, the maps are suposed to reseed dynamicaly every time the planet is accessed based on what has previously happend on that planet, however right now the worlds that do that are buggered to hell and back

3) point taken though

4) you also cant upgrade the structure currently, one or both will be in the next push on Sisi

5) actualy they have some plans for FW and another team working up a new mission arc

6) in order to fill up all curent empire planets the current subscriber base woudld have to have 156 planets in produciton

per toon.

Yes I did the math on just how many of thoes [email protected]#$ pins you could put on one planet useing ICS placeing


HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.21 00:35:00 - [87]
 

so basically its planetery mining and production at the moment without the colony management. Will probably be like wormholes and forgotten as ccp move onto the next you beut thing

Dragon Greg
Posted - 2010.04.21 00:50:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: CCP Nimbus
would be continuing to work


Um, would be or will be?

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.21 01:14:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 21/04/2010 02:48:03
Quote:
... The full details are given in a meeting with CCP Hammerhead and T0rfifrans, where they explain their expectations and the team gets to ask questions on how to approach the feature. This is of course also where the full realization of the difficulty and/or time required dawns on the team, resulting either in glass-clinking happiness, mild apprehension or in rare cases, emo rage.

Yeah, why should Devs be different from players? LOL!!

I'm dying for an example of emo-rage of a dev about a feature - anonymized of course!
pretty please?Rolling Eyes

Casiella Truza
Ecliptic Rift
Posted - 2010.04.21 01:37:00 - [90]
 

Edited by: Casiella Truza on 21/04/2010 01:36:52
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Casiella Truza
Forgive me for saying so, but we've heard this line about "we'll continue to expand it" before. Not only the nullsec stuff in Dominion (which doesn't really affect me directly), but the new exploration system from last year, and the biggie, factional warfare.

I mean, Tyrannis excites me for what it is, and I plan for this to become a major (if not THE major) part of my gameplay. But I'm not actually expecting major add-ons to it in anything like the near future, any more than I am for FW or even seeing Incarna before my children go to uni.


You've never hear us promise a development team that continues iterating for a release. If so, I missed it.


Not to split hairs, because I don't recall discussion about a particular development team continuing, but CCP has said that they intended to continue to build on the systems I mentioned, using them as frameworks. Exercising Google-fu on this would ultimately prove futile: the fact remains that we've heard this story before.

I desperately hope it comes true this time. I want to be wrong, or I wouldn't have re-upped for another 6 months this weekend. But until something hits TQ, I just enjoy the game we have, without the treaties and upgraded FW and additional epic arcs and more scanning-type exploration content and T3 frigates and... you get the idea.


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