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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
Nabaal Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.20 21:52:00 - [31]
 

I'm very glad to see that CCP actually seem to be trying to ensure the quality of this feature set long-term, instead of just getting it out the door and moving on to another, equally ill-fated, new expansion. It's nice to have some hope that my *****ing will have a positive effect, instead of just complaining about things that are already done deals.

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.20 21:55:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Senor Fuzz
What about w-space planets? I haven't seen (or missed) any mention that players will be able to utilize these planets.


You'll be able to use them too!

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.20 21:56:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Zions Child
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Sorry that I'm so stupid, but I still did not understand what the end-product will be. Is it something that will affect the spaceships, a new module or t4 ships or what ? Or do we get something, that already exists, such as minerals ? What will be the end product, after it has been refined, transported and so on ?


The end rewards will come off the NPC market. Basically you'll be able to build POS structures, sov structures, POS fuel (the NPC seeded parts), T2 components (the NPC seeded parts again), station components and nanite repair paste. Might be forgetting something, but that's it I think.


So when will they be removed off market, when you feel a sufficient amount is being produced by players, gradually, at the same time as the release, or is it going to be a stealth pull?


We have a plan for this, but I'm not entirely sure I can go into it publically.

Odhinn Vinlandii
Minmatar
Apolitical
Posted - 2010.04.20 21:58:00 - [34]
 

Dear CCP,

Please, for once in EVE's history, finish an expansion before releasing it.

I would much prefer waiting on a finished product, than you pushing one out and forgetting it, again, again, and again.

Sciencegeek deathdealer
Posted - 2010.04.20 21:58:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Sciencegeek deathdealer on 20/04/2010 22:01:57
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Senor Fuzz
What about w-space planets? I haven't seen (or missed) any mention that players will be able to utilize these planets.


You'll be able to use them too!


especially with whs because of their particular logistical requirements will we be able to upgrade cpu and such or will we need to haul in more PCCs?

edit- also in regards to conserveing space by storeing all the pi stuff on planets until ready to haul it out.

rubico1337
Caldari
Mnemonic Enterprises
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:04:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
Sorry that I'm so stupid, but I still did not understand what the end-product will be. Is it something that will affect the spaceships, a new module or t4 ships or what ? Or do we get something, that already exists, such as minerals ? What will be the end product, after it has been refined, transported and so on ?


The end rewards will come off the NPC market. Basically you'll be able to build POS structures, sov structures, POS fuel (the NPC seeded parts), T2 components (the NPC seeded parts again), station components and nanite repair paste. Might be forgetting something, but that's it I think.


no implants? Sad

also, if destroying others' planetary structures is not in the expansion, please make that the #1 priority, it just wouldn't be eve without utter internet spaceship (or planetary) destruction

Jack Coutu
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:11:00 - [37]
 

implants are a LP store item, why the hell would you produce them on a planet.

Manfred Rickenbocker
Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:18:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 20/04/2010 22:19:14
CCP Art = WIN! Hahaha...

On a heavier note:
In testing, it seems to be a tad difficult and a lot of tweaking to get all the rates and flows to work seamlessly, particularly when you have deposits continually exhausting themselves like they do. Making sure that enough of materials A and B get to a factory for production is exceedingly tricky. I like micromanaging, but its a bit much.

As much as people hated POSes, it had one thing right: resource pulling. Once linked together, processors would pull resources from attached silos and, provided enough was available, spit out a product into a final silo. Is there any way to make PI mimic this? Set a schematic in a factory, and provided enough material is available at the beginning of a cycle in all adjacent attached silos for that process, the factory will output a finished product into a silo set up to receive it. Much simpler, yes?

All this said, I completely enjoy the rest of PI. Setting up networks and tweaking them for awesomeness is fun (minus the rate-tweaking). Thank you CCP for making something that caters to my love of supply management.Wink

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:19:00 - [39]
 

I've heard this "we'll update it!" before, namely in Empyrean Age (factional warfare) and Apocrypha (T3 ships/subsystems, more content in wormholes, epic failarcs, etc).

Why does this expansion have to be unleashed on a live server in an incomplete state, and the paying customers act as guinea pigs to fix all the bugs and issues?

I'd say that with game production, you finish and polish first, then release a featurecomplete product, then add more features based on the feedback. I believe that since Empyrean Age, we have not had any finished, polished expansion, and Dominion is just the latest example of content being rushed out of the door in an incomplete state, upsetting the game balance, and achieving the opposite it intended.

When are the FW exploits going to be fixed? When will FW actually be featurecomplete, for that matter?
Where are our dozens of branching epic mission arcs?
Where is the rest of T3?
What happened to the industrial expansion? Where are the storefronts?
When will we get that expansion that would make large alliances actually use their 0.0 space, and force players to spread out to to capture a system instead of bringing one massive blob? Where are the treaties?
What's up with the lag?

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:25:00 - [40]
 

Well, it seems that my fears that it will lack any population mechanics, trade, etc are confirmed. That is very disappointing.

However, I'm very glad to hear that a dedicated team will continue working on PI. If you want my input into what should be added, I'd simply direct you to the last FanFest presentation about it. That sounded awesome. Judging from what I've seen on Singularity, there is a very long way to go between the two.

I want to lead a colony of people, not just extractors and processors. I want there to be strategic decisions that have to be made and ways to interact with other people operating on the same planet.

iP0D
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:27:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Sadly we canít clone ourselves (YET).


Why make it so difficult, keep it simple. You've got plenty men and women working at the offices. Doesn't take a genius to suggest some, um, other options ...

Cool

Dragon Greg
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:32:00 - [42]
 

@ Soundwave, two things.

1. Something else, out of simple curiosity. I get the impression the process is a bit off ... this reads completely like a process from goal to player.

Shouldn't that be, well, kinda the other way around? No disrespect, just curious where this all started.

2. How and where does this tie into Dust, for example with the concept of districts and such. PI basically opens the planet like (almost) free for all (until that time), since you can effectively utilise the entire planet where do districts come in?

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:34:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Sadly we canít clone ourselves (YET).


Why make it so difficult, keep it simple. You've got plenty men and women working at the offices. Doesn't take a genius to suggest some, um, other options ...

Cool


I think you're overestimating the cost/benefit rewards of having kids.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:34:00 - [44]
 

a very intresting blog on your development process. A few of us in our games design class are actually discussing the scrum method of development and it interesting to see how it is effecting the process of this expansion.

Even though most of the people in my class don't play eve they still see the potential benefits of how your producing with scrum compared to other game developers.

Would love to see it in pratice someday WinkRolling Eyes

iP0D
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:36:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Sadly we canít clone ourselves (YET).


Why make it so difficult, keep it simple. You've got plenty men and women working at the offices. Doesn't take a genius to suggest some, um, other options ...

Cool


I think you're overestimating the cost/benefit rewards of having kids.


Well, considering implant and other technology, you could program them. At that point only food is something to keep in mind.

Also: interns can take care of the maintenance imo.

Malen Nenokal
The Nightshift
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:36:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
Got some time to think up some questions:

Is population control in planning for a future release?
How will DUST514 tie in with PI?
What is the influence of PI to sovereignty and/or system control in factional warfare?
Nuke them from orbit?
Will there be standings requirements for empire controlled planets or a benefit for being friends with the system controlling faction?
Infiltration, espionage, sabotage?

That should do for now. Smile



I have these exact same questions.

Louis deGuerre
Gallente
Malevolence.
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:42:00 - [47]
 

This blog is enticing.

But I wonder if I'm going to put effort in this when my colony will soon be overrun by the console hordes ? Razz

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:42:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
a very intresting blog on your development process. A few of us in our games design class are actually discussing the scrum method of development and it interesting to see how it is effecting the process of this expansion.

Even though most of the people in my class don't play eve they still see the potential benefits of how your producing with scrum compared to other game developers.

Would love to see it in pratice someday WinkRolling Eyes


Yeah, we actually used scrum for development when I was in university, so I've used it for game production both profesionally and academically. One thing I've learned is that it's a great way of doing things if you use it properly. There's no doubt that making an MMO expansion and a filing system for lawfirm is widely different, and as long as you adjust the approach to your project, it's a great tool. Come to fanfest and let's talk scrum over a beer!

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:46:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Sadly we canít clone ourselves (YET).


Why make it so difficult, keep it simple. You've got plenty men and women working at the offices. Doesn't take a genius to suggest some, um, other options ...

Cool


I think you're overestimating the cost/benefit rewards of having kids.


Well, considering implant and other technology, you could program them. At that point only food is something to keep in mind.

Also: interns can take care of the maintenance imo.



I suggested hiring monkeys once, but CCP t0rfifrans told me that they are actually relatively expensive and while it's a fun idea it's not very cost effective. True story.

Deva Blackfire
Viziam
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:46:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I've heard this "we'll update it!" before, namely in Empyrean Age (factional warfare) and Apocrypha (T3 ships/subsystems, more content in wormholes, epic failarcs, etc).



This.

Quote:

When are the FW exploits going to be fixed? When will FW actually be featurecomplete, for that matter?
Where are our dozens of branching epic mission arcs?
Where is the rest of T3?
What happened to the industrial expansion? Where are the storefronts?
When will we get that expansion that would make large alliances actually use their 0.0 space, and force players to spread out to to capture a system instead of bringing one massive blob? Where are the treaties?
What's up with the lag?


And this.

Sorry but saying now that "You've never hear us promise a development team that continues iterating for a release. If so, I missed it." is just bull****. So next time be sure not to false advertise stuff like 5x5x5x5x5 subsystems for t3s(we are still lacking 2101 possibilities per every strat cruiser = around 8400 combinations that were promised but never appeared in game), COSMOS in every solar system or loads of epic arcs ok?

Solo Player
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:48:00 - [51]
 

No production of trade goods, then?

Here I was really hoping something would finally be done with them...

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:49:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 20/04/2010 22:19:14
CCP Art = WIN! Hahaha...

On a heavier note:
In testing, it seems to be a tad difficult and a lot of tweaking to get all the rates and flows to work seamlessly, particularly when you have deposits continually exhausting themselves like they do. Making sure that enough of materials A and B get to a factory for production is exceedingly tricky. I like micromanaging, but its a bit much.



Yeah, the production chain in it's current state is not at all final. We're currently doing the balance on them, so it should change shortly.

Matalino
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:51:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
We have a plan for this, but I'm not entirely sure I can go into it publically.
Can you atleast give us a timeline on when you can share this part of the master plan? We have less than a month before it goes live.

Current Sisi version doesn't allow market trading in any of the commodities, but I am guessing that is because you will be rearranging the trade goods section of the market.

Thaylon Sen
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:52:00 - [54]
 

lol "Team Commie Pinkos" class, pure class o7 Very Happy

Koshiko Murakami
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:54:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
You've never hear us promise a development team that continues iterating for a release. If so, I missed it.
This is true. Usually you guys say something along the lines of "this provides us a great platform for expanding XXX in the future." It just seems like the future expansion never really happens so we end up with a lot of half-assed features in EVE (see: FW, 0.0 sov). Don't get me wrong, I work in development as well and understand that developer desire to do XXX doesn't necessarily result in XXX getting scheduled, but as a player I find it frustrating to see major new systems added when there are all these half-finished systems floating about.

Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:54:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: 0oO0oOoOo0o
?

Basically you'll be able to build POS structures, sov structures, POS fuel (the NPC seeded parts), T2 components (the NPC seeded parts again), station components and nanite repair paste. Might be forgetting something, but that's it I think.
you did but its trivial at this point so relax. but it is a legit question. (theres one or two tradegoods in the pile that dont seem to be of mutch use apart from the spefic chains, and its easy to overbuild them.

TheCursedWriter
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:56:00 - [57]
 

AWESOME! Awesome for 3 things-
1) Some of the market floors are going to be removed.
2) A new profession that fills a new niche and is useable by everyone is comeing out. (I think it super awesome, being an industrial player, to get some industry love.)
3) A CCP'er is pressing F5 along with us!!!!!! <- biggest foward movement since i started!

I would like to hear however on the ability to expand the pcc (if its possible) and info on pricing and max plants. (includeing if we will be able to delete pccs if this is the case)

-peacekeeper

CCP Soundwave


C C P Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:58:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: TheCursedWriter
AWESOME! Awesome for 3 things-
1) Some of the market floors are going to be removed.
2) A new profession that fills a new niche and is useable by everyone is comeing out. (I think it super awesome, being an industrial player, to get some industry love.)
3) A CCP'er is pressing F5 along with us!!!!!! <- biggest foward movement since i started!

I would like to hear however on the ability to expand the pcc (if its possible) and info on pricing and max plants. (includeing if we will be able to delete pccs if this is the case)

-peacekeeper


I'm F5ing slowly right now because I'm playing EVE Cool

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:59:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Solo Player
No production of trade goods, then?

Here I was really hoping something would finally be done with them...

You can produce livestock on SiSi which I don't think is used for anything outside of trade and possibly more complex PI products.

Driven Marcelli
Minmatar
Evil Overhead
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:01:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Solo Player
No production of trade goods, then?

Here I was really hoping something would finally be done with them...

You can produce livestock on SiSi which I don't think is used for anything outside of trade and possibly more complex PI products.
Everything currently produced by I1 and I2 is used in I3. granted some of the items are just plane odd


Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: Manfred Rickenbocker
Edited by: Manfred Rickenbocker on 20/04/2010 22:19:14
CCP Art = WIN! Hahaha...

On a heavier note:
In testing, it seems to be a tad difficult and a lot of tweaking to get all the rates and flows to work seamlessly, particularly when you have deposits continually exhausting themselves like they do. Making sure that enough of materials A and B get to a factory for production is exceedingly tricky. I like micromanaging, but its a bit much.



Yeah, the production chain in it's current state is not at all final. We're currently doing the balance on them, so it should change shortly.
quick question was the ICS effect (being able to stack pins almost literaly on top of eachother so your transport costs are negligable) intended or a oversight?

(ICS = Infinite City Spam or in this case being able to stack extraction units so close together that you can get 14+ structurs on a planet)


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