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Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:54:00 - [1411]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS


How can them be "REGULAR" players if they don't do the most basic 101 of using a directional scanner? And yet use ships that have NO chance to escape, that is ships where using the directional scanner is vital?



Coz they are regular and can't autospam direct scan every 20ms and react. Stop be fat troll and read thread from the start.

Capt Fossil
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.23 23:57:00 - [1412]
 

Originally by: Ash2h
Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:34:42
Edited by: Ash2h on 23/04/2010 23:32:38
Originally by: Romale
Interestingly enough OUR method of staying out of local only works if the other player is using a cyrillic client


Suddenly!
Most Russians use English client :)

P.S. botmasters use only english client, never heard bout exceptions


I do not know what happened with Monkeysphere and others.
I am not affiliated with Pandemic Legion, don't even know anybody in that bunch.
I have NEVER used a macro, cheat or exploit.

That said..... botmasters...you mean cheaters don't you? You mean you are aware, know people who use macro's/bots AGAINST THE EULA and you don't report them?

You should be banned NOW just for admitting that.

Snot Shot
Minmatar
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers
The 0rphanage
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:00:00 - [1413]
 

How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Monkeys accounts for life? Monkeys use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his KB stats show a tremendous spike in BS kills using the 1 and 2 other toons like he has been doing till now...Rolling Eyes

HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!! His assests and large transactions should be seized and all accounts banned!!

This is no different than the Ferrogel issue and parties involved should get the same treatment.
.


Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:00:00 - [1414]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:

Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS


How can them be "REGULAR" players if they don't do the most basic 101 of using a directional scanner? And yet use ships that have NO chance to escape, that is ships where using the directional scanner is vital?


Bots don't usually file petitions. :) Bots don't look out their window, suddenly and mysteriously seeing Monkeyman materialize without warp; nor do bots generally get ticked-off about it. That's where all of this went awry: the Monkster started killing 'real' people instead of macros; maybe by accident; maybe he got overconfident; only he knows.

As for not using a scanner, I dunno, maybe they were watching local carefully, hoping the game would be played without cheats?

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:05:00 - [1415]
 

Edited by: Ash2h on 24/04/2010 00:52:22
Originally by: Capt Fossil

That said..... botmasters...you mean cheaters don't you? You mean you are aware, know people who use macro's/bots AGAINST THE EULA and you don't report them?

You should be banned NOW just for admitting that.


OMG. U never heard bout ppl who get profit working ingame? U never met places, where they talk bout it? U sure playing MMOs for short period. I've started 1993 in Diku1, but still playing. So maybe thats the reason, why i know something about this activity.
If u really so bright in being paladin, go to one of botter forums and try to report all of them to CCP. Good luck.

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:06:00 - [1416]
 

Edited by: Grath Telkin on 24/04/2010 00:23:40
Originally by: Snot Shot
How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Snots accounts for life? Snots use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his posting stats show a tremendous spike in posts like he has been doing till now...Rolling Eyes

HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!! His assests and large transactions should be seized and all accounts banned!!

This is no different than the Ferrogel issue and parties involved should get the same treatment.
.




Totally agree.

Also, Jeremey, don't hold back man, sperge all the craziness your posting in message 2508 on the RU forums

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:10:00 - [1417]
 

Originally by: Snot Shot
How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Monkeys accounts for life? Monkeys use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his KB stats show a tremendous spike in BS kills using the 1 and 2 other toons like he has been doing till now...Rolling Eyes

HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!!

Quoted for truth. A simple statistical analysis (heck, just a glance suffices, really) should, at the very least, raise some immediate red flags over at those investigating.

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:15:00 - [1418]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Snot Shot
How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Monkeys accounts for life? Monkeys use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his KB stats show a tremendous spike in BS kills using the 1 and 2 other toons like he has been doing till now...Rolling Eyes

HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!!

Quoted for truth. A simple statistical analysis (heck, just a glance suffices, really) should, at the very least, raise some immediate red flags over at those investigating.


Are you sure anyone was watching chat logs? According to latest information chat joining is not even logged on server side, at least not in way you can compare it with system entrance. So ask another question, does exploit revealing helps this watch-dog, or not?

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:26:00 - [1419]
 

Originally by: Ash2h

Are you sure anyone was watching chat logs? According to latest information chat joining is not even logged on server side, at least not in way you can compare it with system entrance. So ask another question, does exploit revealing helps this watch-dog, or not?

Chat server, far as I know, uses simple IRC protocol. Joining a channel will have a server timestamp, no doubt. So, even if chat server is setup independently from the main EVE server, it should be a breeze for a dev to do some basic comparing.

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:32:00 - [1420]
 

Edited by: Ash2h on 24/04/2010 00:33:58
Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: Ash2h

Are you sure anyone was watching chat logs? According to latest information chat joining is not even logged on server side, at least not in way you can compare it with system entrance. So ask another question, does exploit revealing helps this watch-dog, or not?

Chat server, far as I know, uses simple IRC protocol. Joining a channel will have a server timestamp, no doubt. So, even if chat server is setup independently from the main EVE server, it should be a breeze for a dev to do some basic comparing.


I hope so. Few (not less than 10) reports was closed with "Logs show nothing". Maybe after this thread, detailed investigation will change situation. Anyway, I already said, I don't care about Monkeyman or PL using exploit or not. I don't even want any bans. Just fix confirmed exploit and look into some others we expect to be used.

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:40:00 - [1421]
 

Originally by: Ash2h
I don't even want any bans. Just fix confirmed exploit and look into some others we expect to be used.


Agreed, it's far too risky to start our macros before going to work in the morning. Put an end to this cheating! I need my isk, dammit!

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.24 00:47:00 - [1422]
 

Originally by: Gunnanmon
Originally by: Ash2h
I don't even want any bans. Just fix confirmed exploit and look into some others we expect to be used.


Agreed, it's far too risky to start our macros before going to work in the morning. Put an end to this cheating! I need my isk, dammit!


Yeah! We all play balalaika with our pocket bears in Soviet Russia. Poor me being in Russia (joke).
BTW Im in the same country as Monkeyman and someone in this thread said poor Monkey found bug coz slow internet. 10mb connection is common here, 100mb costs not so much and starting to be popular. Google Estonia.

Neo Gabriel
Gallente
Percussive Diplomacy
The Phoenix. Consortium
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:11:00 - [1423]
 

I saw it with my own eyes (through the zander on alt) when huhuhu's ibis jumped into Keberz local from HED-GP and was flying around us while not being in local (multiple intances). I also saw with my own eyes when "Sisi Test" (whoever controls that, probably ccp) showed up on HED-GP on the Keberz gate grid while only me, Stormwolke and El were in local (Storm was in grid with me and saw it too), waiting for huhu to come for the scheduled proof op.

Interestingly enough, while fraps were recording, The monkeysphere came into the chat channel for who knows what reason.

I SAW THE PROOF OF CONCEPT WITH MY OWN EYES! I am not a bot! I have never used a bot and I HATE macros! I have screen shots to prove what I saw. The screen shots in sequential order with time stamps showing DS with the ships, with local open, with the chat open is UNDENIABLE proof that this exploit works with REAL PLAYERS and for all intents and purposes could be used by anyone on TQ.

I have googled Abuser's chat from 2 years ago that identified the eve vulnerabilities and urged CCP to do something about them. Obviously these vulnerabilities have been known for at least 2 years.

If you take all of Pandemic Legion's Trolling in here with bull**** excuses and fail posts with their alts you can see the pattern of obfuscation. Why would they do this? Why not just explain this "super strategy" so everyone can reproduce it and prove they are not cheaters? It is obvious there is no such strategy. If you have ever ratted or done PVE in lowsec/nullsec you will understand the importance of spamming DS when there is a neutral/pirate in system and you would ALSO understand that when system is empty you don't use DS. No one in their right mind will rat in a belt while there are neutrals in system, and if you are in a Complex, you keep your scanner open with tabs unchecked looking for probes. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be caught in PVE if you have any clue about what you are doing.

You can catch macros in 0.0 by using logonskys and warp spheres that is true but it is also very time consuming, as any experienced macro hunter attests.

So now these PL cheaters claim these strategies work with real players. They are all lying. If you examine monkey's KB, that alone is evidence of wrong doing.

Being able to move through system while not being in local is a great advantage where they can warp to their victims who are unaware of any threats, so they are not spamming DS or warping to a POS/safe. Suddenly a recon uncloaks or warps in (testimonials claim they just APPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE, which brings attention to further exploiting) and tackles their ratting ship and there is nothing they can do against 2 recons and a Mach.

So, there is testimonial evidence by dozens of REAL PEOPLE witness to these events. There are hundreds more KMs from bots who got caught. There is UNDENIABLE proof of this exploit. There is a guy with KB stats where he has impossible feats of hunting nullsec ratters, both real people and macros (lets not be naive most of his victims were bots). There is evidence of vulnerabilities that could allow hackers to warp to cloaked people, to fake info packets between client and servers. There is recorded evidence of PL people attempting to obfuscate the truth.

In any real world court of law all this evidence would land all these people in jail. There is no doubt monkey and accomplices have been exploiting the game for a long time. Since most of his victims were also exploiters (macroers) it took this long for attention and evidence to be gathered.

CCP already has all it needs to fix the vulnerabilities and ban to hell all the exploiters involved. I hope they find a way to also catch all macroers and ban all their accounts too.

Burn Everything!

kaisersauzee
TH3 INF3CT3D
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:12:00 - [1424]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Edited by: Ranka Mei on 23/04/2010 22:15:41
Originally by: Boomershoot
Originally by: Douglass Bryant

My question is, what makes this attack so effective?

They're directed against simple algorithms.

What a lovely story: poor Monkeyman was just finding a clever way to take advantage of the (faulty) way bots operate.

Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS reported Monekeydude being absent in local, suddenly appearing out of thin air, within impossible timeframes. What, Monkey used an "I-win" tactic 'directed against simple algorithms' on these normal players too? That's a neat trick! I have to hand it to you guys, your talent for obfuscation is near miraculous! :)


Those the REGULAR players that only lose a ship because of a omglagsplat?

Grath Telkin
Amarr
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:19:00 - [1425]
 

Edited by: Grath Telkin on 24/04/2010 01:19:24
Originally by: Neo Gabriel
Why not just explain this "super strategy" so everyone can reproduce it and prove they are not cheaters?


You should have left this part out.

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:25:00 - [1426]
 

Originally by: kaisersauzee
Originally by: Ranka Mei

Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS reported Monekeydude being absent in local, suddenly appearing out of thin air, within impossible timeframes. What, Monkey used an "I-win" tactic 'directed against simple algorithms' on these normal players too? That's a neat trick! I have to hand it to you guys, your talent for obfuscation is near miraculous! :)

Those the REGULAR players that only lose a ship because of a omglagsplat?

"omglagsplat"? E? Nani kore?! Eigo de, onegai shimasu! :)

Ellatan Deruimte
Surreal corp
Stain Empire
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:39:00 - [1427]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
How can them be "REGULAR" players if they don't do the most basic 101 of using a directional scanner? And yet use ships that have NO chance to escape, that is ships where using the directional scanner is vital?



Although you are trolling, for those who don't understand the problem I will explain the concept of it yet again. People don't tend to use direct scanners when there are no hostiles in local, or the local is simply empty, there is no reason to do so. Even if they did use direct scanner every 3 seconds, they would not be able to detect an Arazu coming, which can warp cloaked in any case. In addition to that advantage, an Arazu is free to drop combat scanner probes undetected. He has plenty of time to find a ratter inside a plex or anomaly, because the victims are not likely to check for scan probes with either empty local channel or no hostiles present in the system. That explains multiple reported occurrences when Monkeysphere was able to decloak Ravens at random safespots within seconds of seemingly entering local.

His victims are not idiots or newbies, however they are not playing by the same rules as him.

Baillif
AQUILA INC
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:41:00 - [1428]
 

Confirming The Monkeysphere has told me his secrets and I am on my way to Russian space to kill golems.

kaisersauzee
TH3 INF3CT3D
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:47:00 - [1429]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: kaisersauzee
Originally by: Ranka Mei

Except, lest we forget, this whole monkeybusiness started because REGULAR NON-BOT PLAYERS reported Monekeydude being absent in local, suddenly appearing out of thin air, within impossible timeframes. What, Monkey used an "I-win" tactic 'directed against simple algorithms' on these normal players too? That's a neat trick! I have to hand it to you guys, your talent for obfuscation is near miraculous! :)

Those the REGULAR players that only lose a ship because of a omglagsplat?

"omglagsplat"? E? Nani kore?! Eigo de, onegai shimasu! :)


People have always used ready made excuses for losing ships in a dumb way, do you really believe your corpmates when they tell you they only died because of lag.

The same principle also applies here.....if any of these REGULAR players lost their ship because they weren`t paying attention they now have a ready made excuse to justify the loss.

Just because they said thats how they lost it doesn`t make it so but don`t let the lack of concrete evidence get in the way of your lynching now.

Bad Kroxa
Amarr
Russian SOBR
SOLAR FLEET
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:48:00 - [1430]
 

Edited by: Bad Kroxa on 24/04/2010 01:52:39
Originally by: Baillif
Confirming The Monkeysphere has told me his secrets and I am on my way to Russian space to kill golems.


If you know the secret, why do you they still do not use it? You are simple Troll!

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:53:00 - [1431]
 

Originally by: kaisersauzee

People have always used ready made excuses for losing ships in a dumb way, do you really believe your corpmates when they tell you they only died because of lag.

The same principle also applies here.....if any of these REGULAR players lost their ship because they weren`t paying attention they now have a ready made excuse to justify the loss.

Just because they said thats how they lost it doesn`t make it so but don`t let the lack of concrete evidence get in the way of your lynching now.



Only 2 words. Numbers, Coincident?

DUYSheep
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:55:00 - [1432]
 

Edited by: DUYSheep on 24/04/2010 01:55:22
Edited: This is Neo Gabriels's ALT.

Doing some investigative reporting:

http://1hc.biz/000/w9cpav.jpg
http://ahp.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=751370
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=bvcfr&filter=losses&dateRange=Jan%201,%202003%20to%20Apr%2023,%202010

Now, there is something very interesting about the last link. If you check bvcfr's loss history, he has lost 7 BS, yet only 3 losses show on Batteclinic KB. HOWEVER, bvcfr killed a monkey arazu on 2008-07-05, THREE MINUTES after the above screenshot, and there was at a time a killmail from that same fight where the raven was killed! The killmail has dissapeared! Someone tried to cover their tracks and FAILED!

YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT!

This is UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE of exploiting by monkey, his connection to A**X, the other PL hacker. Possible help from the KB operators at BC and elsewhere for covering up his tracks! This is an unprecendented SCANDAL! PL has been cheating in eve for almost two years!

BURN EVERYTHING!

kaisersauzee
TH3 INF3CT3D
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:55:00 - [1433]
 

Edited by: kaisersauzee on 24/04/2010 01:56:36
Originally by: Ash2h
Originally by: kaisersauzee

People have always used ready made excuses for losing ships in a dumb way, do you really believe your corpmates when they tell you they only died because of lag.

The same principle also applies here.....if any of these REGULAR players lost their ship because they weren`t paying attention they now have a ready made excuse to justify the loss.

Just because they said thats how they lost it doesn`t make it so but don`t let the lack of concrete evidence get in the way of your lynching now.



Only 2 words. Numbers, Coincident?


I`m sorry I must have skipped passed the video showing monkeysphere attacking one of these regular players whilst not appearing in local....you forgive me right?


Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.24 01:58:00 - [1434]
 

Originally by: kaisersauzee

People have always used ready made excuses for losing ships in a dumb way, do you really believe your corpmates when they tell you they only died because of lag.

The same principle also applies here.....if any of these REGULAR players lost their ship because they weren't paying attention they now have a ready made excuse to justify the loss.


Denial is not just a river. :)

And the reason they weren't paying attention is because bloody local didn't tell them they should, is why!

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.24 02:01:00 - [1435]
 

Originally by: kaisersauzee
you forgive me right?


If you are one of normal players, who don't spend lifetime recording hours of fraps waiting of monkey magic, i forgive you.

Romale
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.24 02:03:00 - [1436]
 

Originally by: DUYSheep
Edited by: DUYSheep on 24/04/2010 01:55:22
Edited: This is Neo Gabriels's ALT.

Doing some investigative reporting:

http://1hc.biz/000/w9cpav.jpg
http://ahp.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=751370
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/combat_record.php?type=player&name=bvcfr&filter=losses&dateRange=Jan%201,%202003%20to%20Apr%2023,%202010

Now, there is something very interesting about the last link. If you check bvcfr's loss history, he has lost 7 BS, yet only 3 losses show on Batteclinic KB. HOWEVER, bvcfr killed a monkey arazu on 2008-07-05, THREE MINUTES after the above screenshot, and there was at a time a killmail from that same fight where the raven was killed! The killmail has dissapeared! Someone tried to cover their tracks and FAILED!

YOU HAVE BEEN CAUGHT!

This is UNDENIABLE EVIDENCE of exploiting by monkey, his connection to A**X, the other PL hacker. Possible help from the KB operators at BC and elsewhere for covering up his tracks! This is an unprecendented SCANDAL! PL has been cheating in eve for almost two years!

BURN EVERYTHING!


can someone translate this for me?

Ash2h
Posted - 2010.04.24 02:06:00 - [1437]
 

Originally by: Romale

can someone translate this for me?

I thought its your pocket troll.

Lady Karma
Posted - 2010.04.24 02:09:00 - [1438]
 

Originally by: Snot Shot
How can the first response from CCP at this point not be to ban all Monkeys accounts for life? Monkeys use of the exploit is clearly defined in 2008 when his KB stats show a tremendous spike in BS kills using the 1 and 2 other toons like he has been doing till now...Rolling Eyes

HE HAS BEEN USING THE EXPLOIT FOR 2 YEARS!!! His assests and large transactions should be seized and all accounts banned!!

This is no different than the Ferrogel issue and parties involved should get the same treatment.
.




His actions are clearly affecting your macro bot industry. I can understand your frustrations, but one day you too may be free from the shackles of your sweat shop macro boss.

Hang in there little guy, you have always got CAOD to cling on to, my heart goes out to you brother. <3

kaisersauzee
TH3 INF3CT3D
Posted - 2010.04.24 02:14:00 - [1439]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Originally by: kaisersauzee

People have always used ready made excuses for losing ships in a dumb way, do you really believe your corpmates when they tell you they only died because of lag.

The same principle also applies here.....if any of these REGULAR players lost their ship because they weren't paying attention they now have a ready made excuse to justify the loss.


Denial is not just a river. :)

And the reason they weren't paying attention is because bloody local didn't tell them they should, is why!


Please point to the part where I denied anything, I have no affiliation to PL or monkeysphere.

Other than take the word of some REGULAR players as gospel, i`m simply suggesting that maybe you should hold off on your lynch mob until CCP are done investigating or you come up with concrete proof.

Lady Karma
Posted - 2010.04.24 02:32:00 - [1440]
 

Originally by: kaisersauzee

i`m simply suggesting that maybe you should hold off on your lynch mob until CCP are done investigating or you come up with concrete proof.


I admire your optimism. The evidence in this thread would point towards the conclusion that the average eve player is lacking in cognitive abilities.

Jumping to wild conclusions of teleport hax, warp to zero hax, and of course the invisible in local hax.
I think I saw Monkey Sphere building the pyramids using an alien anti gravity device. When he finished them, he then used the pyramids to power a mother ship in orbit using a giant microwave beam.

This is all fact because I can't work out how a big rock was lifted up, so it must have been anti gravity.


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