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blankseplocked How is this possible? [Updated with important info]
 
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SuperTight5
Posted - 2010.04.19 10:40:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: SuperTight5 on 27/04/2010 14:21:57
First of all, I play more than 5 years and know the rules, especially concerning ratting in 0.0

I was ratting in belt in dead-end system with empty local, my scout was in nearby system at the gate. Suddenly, three negatives from Pandemic Legion appeared in local (wormhole?) and within 2 seconds I hit warp to safe spot. But in the next second 2 ships appeared near me (not warped in, just appeared!) and I got scrambled and popped.

So, how is this possible, to lock a ship at random belt within 3 seconds after entering local? Even login trap would take much more time.

Is it exploit, or it is possible with legitimate tactic?

UPDATE:
According to russian forums the bug was reproduced and few screenshots were made:

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1004/clean.jpg
http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1004/russkies_do_it_again.jpg

read from here

UPDATE2:
The exploit has been reproduced at test server, using clues from russian forums. The reproduction steps will not be published due to EULA violation.

Video footage has been preformed, displaying the player agressing another player without showing the agressor in local chat. (youtube)

Video showing "invisible" player in noobship jumping into system and warping between gates.

Another demonstration: Part1 and Part2 of the video frapsed by Ellatan (from victim POV)

UPDATE3:
Hotfix has been deployed.

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.04.19 10:57:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Gunnanmon on 26/04/2010 09:37:46
WTS: Advertising space in this post.


Flap jak
Posted - 2010.04.19 11:02:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: SuperTight5
First of all, I play more than 5 years and know the rules, especially concerning ratting in 0.0

I was ratting in belt in dead-end system with empty local, my scout was in nearby system at the gate. Suddenly, three negatives from Pandemic Legion appeared in local (wormhole?) and within 2 seconds I hit warp to safe spot. But in the next second 2 ships appeared near me (not warped in, just appeared!) and I got scrambled and popped.

So, how is this possible, to lock a ship at random belt within 3 seconds after entering local? Even login trap would take much more time.

Is it exploit, or it is possible with legitimate tactic?



Have you tried asking them? there is probably a very reasonable answer to your question.

my guess is they were lucky.

Merouk Baas
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.19 11:02:00 - [4]
 

Your scout is spy.

SuperTight5
Posted - 2010.04.19 11:02:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Gunnanmon
Were you at the beacon of the belt you were in? They might have randomly warped to some belts, and pure luck resulted in your demise.


You can take the fastest interceptor and try to warp to closest belt in any system. And it will take MUCH more time than 3 seconds. Also, as I said the ships did not warp in, but just appeared near me (like decloaked but without decloaking sound effect)

Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.04.19 11:05:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: SuperTight5
Also, as I said the ships did not warp in, but just appeared near me (like decloaked but without decloaking sound effect)


Login trap?

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.04.19 11:08:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: SuperTight5
Also, as I said the ships did not warp in, but just appeared near me (like decloaked but without decloaking sound effect)


Login trap?



They would still have had to warp in (albeit automatically), surely.

HIghlord Diamond
Posted - 2010.04.19 11:08:00 - [8]
 

Sounds to me like you may have experienced some sort of connection time out, your browser not updating events and not refreshing local. They could have been in the system for maybe whole 20-30 secs before the local actually showed it. Did you noticed anything else unusual like ammo in your guns no dropping or a rat not taking damage for your weapons anymore?

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2010.04.19 11:12:00 - [9]
 

Sounds like a login trap.

Steve Celeste
Overdogs
Posted - 2010.04.19 11:28:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Sounds like a login trap.


How would they know when to spring the trap when they dont have anyone in local?

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2010.04.19 12:20:00 - [11]
 

Local as an instant source of perfect intel isn't an exploit, it only feels that way.

SuperTight5
Posted - 2010.04.19 12:31:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: HIghlord Diamond
Sounds to me like you may have experienced some sort of connection time out, your browser not updating events and not refreshing local. They could have been in the system for maybe whole 20-30 secs before the local actually showed it. Did you noticed anything else unusual like ammo in your guns no dropping or a rat not taking damage for your weapons anymore?


No, everything was just fine, but now I'm thinking they somehow managed to delay their appearance in local (like in wormholes), but still it does not explain how they spawned near me (not warp in, but instant spawn).

SuperTight5
Posted - 2010.04.19 12:36:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Merouk Baas
Your scout is spy.


There was only me in the system and the scout was me on another account in nearby system.

Space Pinata
Amarr
Discount Napkin Industries
Posted - 2010.04.19 12:38:00 - [14]
 

Methinks you weren't paying attention.

They appeared in the belt two seconds after you SAW them in local. Stop assuming your own attention span was infallible.

If people could hax teleport anywhere in the game and onto anyone they wanted, they'd surely be using this ability for much more than ganking some guy in a battleship. (Or whatever you were in. I'm going to say since two people killed it, it wasn't a huge deal. At least, not compared to the opportunities someone 'teleporting in anywhere' could manage)

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.04.19 12:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: SuperTight5
Originally by: Merouk Baas
Your scout is spy.


There was only me in the system and the scout was me on another account in nearby system.


Were you spying on yourself? Maybe you're not trustworthy.

SuperTight5
Posted - 2010.04.19 12:56:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Space Pinata
Methinks you weren't paying attention.
They appeared in the belt two seconds after you SAW them in local. Stop assuming your own attention span was infallible.



I can assure you, I was paying attention to local, because I remember clearly the moment when the local changed from "me only" to "3 more" (of course, now you might say that I'm ******ed person, who has memory disorders). I know what I saw and it was not like anything else seen in 5+ years of gameplay.

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.04.19 12:59:00 - [17]
 

Local doesn't always update instantaneously

Esu Nahalas
Yote Patrol
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:02:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Gunnanmon
Originally by: SuperTight5
Originally by: Merouk Baas
Your scout is spy.


There was only me in the system and the scout was me on another account in nearby system.


Were you spying on yourself? Maybe you're not trustworthy.


This is EVE. Trust no one.

Sabrosa Namaste
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:03:00 - [19]
 

was it the monkeysphere or lol internets ?

SuperTight5
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:04:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Sabrosa Namaste
was it the monkeysphere or lol internets ?


Yes.

Lady Spank
Amarr
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:17:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: SuperTight5
Originally by: Sabrosa Namaste
was it the monkeysphere or lol internets ?


Yes.


LMAO I knew that before I had to scroll down.

Sabrosa Namaste
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:18:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: SuperTight5
Originally by: Sabrosa Namaste
was it the monkeysphere or lol internets ?


Yes.


well as someone who was in PL for a long time (and I probably wont remain anonymous for long) the monkeysphere has long been known to not appear in local, story goes his internet was crappy (from estonia) and after some research he somehow figured out how to make his connection to the eve server without appearing in local, he's been killing unkillable farmers for years, and does it without appearing in local on either of his chars, go look at his history of kills on the PL killboard and you'll see what I mean, the rumours about this started in PL 2 or so years ago, If I'm wrong then my bad but from what I've seen I was pretty convinced of his ability to not appear in local.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:26:00 - [23]
 

Could it be, by some odd chance or by many of lifes numerous potential distractions, that your percetion of time is scewed by more then a few seconds?

I know this is an ass of a question, but I had to ask either way.


Slade

MisterAl tt1
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:33:00 - [24]
 

It looks like you are talking about them:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&plt_id=44826

Look at the KB and forget about "login traps" of "fast scan". No legal techic allows to be THAT fast so many times in line.

The174'driver
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:37:00 - [25]
 

It's monkeysphere that uses no-local exploit. Here's 27-page discussion thread about it on eve-ru

http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?showtopic=43109&st=504

woarus
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:40:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: woarus on 19/04/2010 13:43:36
it my petition about this problem

Hello,
For period of 4 days one group of players: ( Monkeysphere, lol internets, Goose Hypocrisy) two times
destroy mine ship golem in system k85y-6 (kill information I attache on the letter)
In both cases I hunting in belts, and both times after I saw occurrence of the enemy in a local chat I give to the ship command to go on the POS - all skills for manoeuvrability, jumping, etc of the ship are on level 5. Always in similar cases I easy go to the POS with a lots of free time,
but here in both cases killers block mine ship in 10 seconds since the moment of the killers occurrence in a local chat.
Distance from belts to gate from they was appear (the system ltt-ap) holds nearby 56 au it's about 40 seconds to fly.
After the first attack I had a thought that is not fairly, after destruction of mine 2nd ship I am precisely assured now that the player what that detains in the image an exit of the data about its occurrence in system in a local chat with its time actual a finding in it


In this connection I ask to investigate in the present state of affairs, to take measures and to compensate destruction of my ships and implantants (at present the sum of my damage from these 2 cases make about 25 billion isk)

Also I make search in internet and have conversation with another players, who was meet same killers early to me, what they are have same situation and has writing
many petitions

Example:


DrillerForm
2009-06-17 - Look at the monkeysphere and lol internets kills today (or any day) ... 5 ratters in 40 minutes in 4 different systems and than tell me there is nothing suspicious about it ... It smells like exploiting to me
heh
2009-06-17 - He ganked a friend of mine once. The guy said he de-cloaked next to him 10 secs after appearing in local.

http://forum.eve-ru.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=27673&view=findpost&p=724319

The Monkeysphere
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:44:00 - [27]
 

Macroers and isk sellers should not preach :colbert:

Just check your logs, they show everything. If you didn't macro you'd know what I'm doing is perfectly fine.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:45:00 - [28]
 

Quote:
figured out how to make his connection to the eve server without appearing in local
Relevant to my interests.

MisterAl tt1
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:56:00 - [29]
 

BTW. Some people got answers to their petitions in the style of "logs are clear". I suppose it is not logged, if a pilot is in the chat, but it is loged when the one is in the system. So they simply dont appear in the local (using some bug) and is no way to prove it.

ebta blin
Posted - 2010.04.19 13:57:00 - [30]
 

I assume this requires a bit of coding. Guess no-local is already public domain and release of the source code wont hurt anyone.


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