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Colonel Vatutin
Caldari
Often AFK
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.04.17 07:58:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Gecko O'Bac
Originally by: Colonel Vatutin
Ok the search engine doesn't give me a conclusive result.....so here goes:

I did hear that planetary resources such as micro-organisms, noble metals, etc are finite. My question is, are they gone FOR GOOD once they are all mined? Or are they replenished/respawned periodically like roids? If so, how often?

In regards to profit margins, can someone give me a VERY rough estimate producing certain goods from planetary products? Per week? Per month?

Can't wait for tyrannis Cool


Dunno if it has changed with the last patch, but as it were a couple of weeks ago you will need 3 or more planets with a lot of extractors and lucky placement (and management) just to produce enough fuel to keep a single Large POS running. As for higher tier items, AFAIK the ones you can produce right now have no use so no sell value, so it's hard to quantify.


Thanks for the reply. Anyone have any ideas about the resource respawn i mentioned?

Gecko O'Bac
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.17 08:04:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Colonel Vatutin


Thanks for the reply. Anyone have any ideas about the resource respawn i mentioned?


Ah forgot about that... Well every single deposit is gone, but it's not like you can stripmine a planet. Deposits respawn continuosly and there are usually multiple deposits in the same place (though if you plant exctractors in zones with less concentration you can be reduced to just one). I doubt you can even stripmine your zone like you can do with a roid belt. More deposits are there just to be mined... I think the recycle time is quite fast, especially since (at least in the patch before this one) at most one mined deposit will last around 12 hours.

HeliosGal
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.17 09:11:00 - [33]
 

so ccp promised a lot and delivered about 2 things. Wow best expansion ever

Keledia
Fibonacci Heavy Industries
Posted - 2010.04.17 11:13:00 - [34]
 

tl;dr extractors seem to be broken after running out, re-building the 1st extractor you select fixes them

This morning, all my extractors were finished so did another scan and selected the highest rate deposit. Clicked both submits and went onto the next extractor. Checked back on my first 1 and it said "extracting: nothing", which i thought was abit strange but just assumed i'd messed up; so i repeated the scanning and selecting....but again it failed to extract anything. I did notice that i got this error message:

"10:45:52 Notify You cannot begin exploiting the specified deposit. The facility's foreman does not appear to be answering his communicator, as he is likely out supervising the current deposit."

But that was only with the first extractor i selected. This same issue with extracting not beginning after selecting a desposit happened with all my extractors on that planet. What i assumed was that the extractor was still showing the same highest rate deposit (which i'd mined out) so selected the next 1 down. This worked on the majority, but a few i had to select the 3rd highest rate. However, the first extractor i selected on the planet still didn't work even after trying other deposits.

My only solution to the first extractor not working was simply to decomission and re-build it.

I then went to my second planet and got the same error from my first extractor that was also finished. But this time i went straight to decomissioning it and rebuilding it. This lead to my other extractors working properly after selecting a new deposit.




Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.17 11:59:00 - [35]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 17/04/2010 16:51:57
The stuck extractors bug is still present and IMHO is by far the most serious bug.

Originally by: Keledia
Originally by: Wyke Mossari

Scan colour gradient is much better, but blue is still difficult to see on a lot of planets textures.



You can slide the coloured scan bar and it will allow you to see deposits easier.


No. The slider sets min and max limits of resources to filter out, so by sliding the min (the blue end) actually makes resources less visible.

I've tried all the palettes, 15/16/24/24+alpha. I've tried high & low shaders, I've tried high and low textures, bloom on & off.

I using a NVidia Quadro and I've tried adjusting the brightness, contrast and gamma in the Nvidia control panel, blue up, red down and both.

A challenge to prove my point: There is Felsic Magma on Oursulaert I at about 5-10%. Try finding it using the scanner.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.17 12:19:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Tres Farmer on 17/04/2010 12:33:57
Originally by: Wyke Mossari
Originally by: Keledia
Originally by: Wyke Mossari

Scan colour gradient is much better, but blue is still difficult to see on a lot of planets textures.


You can slide the coloured scan bar and it will allow you to see deposits easier.

No. The slider sets min and max limits of resources to filter out, so by sliding the min (the blue end) actually makes resources less visible.

Well.. thats the thing (problem) with the range of the min/max of the filter slider.. I just use the right side for checking with it and tweak it as long as the most abundant areas become barely white.. the min/max filter slider usually is set to minimum range (so left side is pulled as far right as it goes after tinkering with the right side)..
This way you can differnentiate with a formerly 100% resolution an abundancy difference of 10%..

Originally by: Wyke Mossari
A challenge to prove my point: There is Felsic Magma on Oursulaert I at about 5-10%. Try finding it using the scanner.

Yeah, the low end of the abundancy (blue) is practically barely visible as blue seems to be opaque most..

Catari Taga
Centre Of Attention
Middle of Nowhere
Posted - 2010.04.17 12:27:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

The stuck extractors bug is still present and IMHO is by far the most serious bug.

Originally by: Keledia
Originally by: Wyke Mossari

Scan colour gradient is much better, but blue is still difficult to see on a lot of planets textures.



You can slide the coloured scan bar and it will allow you to see deposits easier.


No. The slider sets min and max limits of resources to filter out, so by sliding the min (the blue end) actually makes resources less visible.

Confirming the extractor bug, but you are wrong on the slider, it does not filter anything if you move the right end towards the left, that simply compresses the scale. So you can quite easily make your 5% felsic magma red or white and thus easily visible. I'd still have preferred them to grey the planet out during scanning but this is already a very good improvement.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.17 12:32:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Wyke Mossari

The stuck extractors bug is still present and IMHO is by far the most serious bug.



-- Other Symptoms/additional info --
Once you've rescanned the resources the submit button acts like a cancel (cancel does the same so they are not swapped).

If you perform another action before pressing the submit, that other action is cancelled as well. Performing two actions before submitting works in other cases. This suggests to me the submit button performs a SQL Commit? If so perhaps that commit is failing and an automatic SQL rollback is happening.

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.17 12:40:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Catari Taga

Confirming the extractor bug, but you are wrong on the slider, it does not filter anything if you move the right end towards the left, that simply compresses the scale. So you can quite easily make your 5% felsic magma red or white and thus easily visible.


Brilliant, thanks.

Lootangel
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.17 13:01:00 - [40]
 

hi
The approx. 6hours harvesting endurance before depletion seemes a bit short if You're a workingman.

Hopefully this will change to 12hrs.

Blue Harrier
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.17 13:25:00 - [41]
 

I will not go through all the steps but from my notes it takes about 15 steps (mouse clicks) to select, place and on-line just one ‘Extractor’.

Many of those steps could be simplified, reduced by using tabbed menus and/or consistent operation. Why do some operations have a [Submit] button and others not?

Also why do you need to both click the ‘Survey for Deposits’ icon then click the [Survey for Deposits] button, one click should be enough?

The ‘Create Link’ and ‘Create Route’ is inconsistent and ‘Not Logical’, one being a single click from a menu and the other a double click from an icon.

Finally many people may have problems running PI as I found out on my laptop.
I had 8 Extractors, 3 Storage, 3 Processors and 1 Command Unit (about the maximum for this set up) running.
I am able to run Eve the game at a reasonable 20 to 25 FPS (OK for standard game play but not for fleet fights etc) but running PI in planet view mode and zoomed in to the PIN icons resulted in 3 to 4.5 FPS and made it almost unusable.

Barbicane
TGUN Industries
Posted - 2010.04.17 15:05:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Blue Harrier
I will not go through all the steps but from my notes it takes about 15 steps (mouse clicks) to select, place and on-line just one ‘Extractor’.

You don't have to press 'submit' for every step. You can setup all the reactors, links, and routes, and then just press 'submit' once at the end.

But it's still quite tedious, and after setting up a production chain for robotics I realize this is something I will not be doing very often unless it becomes greatly simplified. I have to admit it is a lot simpler and more intuitive now than last time I tested it a couple of weeks ago so hopefully there is enough time for improvements still.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.17 15:38:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Keledia
"10:45:52 Notify You cannot begin exploiting the specified deposit. The facility's foreman does not appear to be answering his communicator, as he is likely out supervising the current deposit."

Retry again a couple minutes later. If you try different pins they'll all give the same error, so you need to retry the same one.

Dunkle Lars
Amarr
Lemon Half Moon
Posted - 2010.04.17 16:07:00 - [44]
 

One problem I noticed was on a temperate planet. 2 extractors linked and routed to a storage facility -> linked and routed to a basic factory set for "bacteria" production. Schematic says it needs 6000 micro organism for production but even when I hit 20k micro organism the productioncycle wouldn't start.. I tried cutting the storehouse out of the loop feeding the factory directly from the harvesters.. Same problem

Known bug or?

Adad Narari
Posted - 2010.04.17 16:18:00 - [45]
 

Anybody can tell me wich are the skills prerequisite to run a PI?

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.17 16:33:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Dunkle Lars
One problem I noticed was on a temperate planet. 2 extractors linked and routed to a storage facility -> linked and routed to a basic factory set for "bacteria" production. Schematic says it needs 6000 micro organism for production but even when I hit 20k micro organism the productioncycle wouldn't start.. I tried cutting the storehouse out of the loop feeding the factory directly from the harvesters.. Same problem

Known bug or?

Did you link it?
Did you route it?
Did you submit it?
Did you wait for the cycle? PI cycle 'explained'

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.17 17:04:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Wyke Mossari on 17/04/2010 17:08:12
Originally by: Lootangel
hi
The approx. 6hours harvesting endurance before depletion seemes a bit short if You're a workingman.

Hopefully this will change to 12hrs.


Agreed it's much to short, I don't think attention should be more often than daily. Research Points is passive and needs at most daily attention.

To control/balance/limit the profit flatten the resource density so the same quantity is extracted over a longer period. OR increase the running cost by requiring/consuming goods or isk (wages).

Idea: Give each structure a population/accommodation value. Allow a player to camp troops (Marines/Kameiras), workers (Janitors/Scientists/Slaves). The ratio of workers to troops factors into the efficiency of the structure. The troops are your max defence force of Dusters.


Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.04.17 17:22:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Abrazzar on 17/04/2010 17:48:33
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Originally by: Keledia
"10:45:52 Notify You cannot begin exploiting the specified deposit. The facility's foreman does not appear to be answering his communicator, as he is likely out supervising the current deposit."

Retry again a couple minutes later. If you try different pins they'll all give the same error, so you need to retry the same one.

Just found out that leaving the planet view and entering it again will allow you to survey again immediately. Guess it's a matter of getting the available flag after being busy that may take a moment to happen automatically or a reload to force a new flagging of the facilities. The message is basically for "I'm not busy anymore but still not yet available, just a moment."

EDIT: It does seem to bug the extractor though and it won't take changes anymore, so decommission it has to be when you get that message for now.

Keledia
Fibonacci Heavy Industries
Posted - 2010.04.17 18:00:00 - [49]
 

Me again. Another issue, so here's what happened:

Items were inside the (wrongly named) Launchpad (LP) and the LP was linked to a processor (PROC). I was making Super Conductors and so routed the water and plasmoids from the LP to the PROC. As i had enough materials to produce Super Conductors, the process began. However, after clicking submit on the left hand side, all the materials that were being used in that Super Conductor process were lost and all that remained was excess plasmoids that weren't used in that process.

The same issue has been reported by other players in the SINGULARITY channel, and also happened when i deleted a link connecting a extractor to a processor (i was adding a storage structure in between).

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.18 00:28:00 - [50]
 

That extractors won't resurvey and work again seems to be bound to the routes.
Once the extraction point runs empty, everything relating to the material extracted gets deleted at the extractor, except the routes.. just check your target-PIN for the incoming or the links where their routes run over..

Once you're able to delete the route, you can rescan and rebuilt the route.
Naturally this isn't possible yet, as the target PINs don't allow you to delete the routes incoming and the extractors doesn't have them listed anymore. Deleting the links they run over will work though, as it takes the routes with it..

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.18 06:50:00 - [51]
 

Ok.. off to something new..

Who isn't ecologic these days? We must save energy where we can, even on planets..
Ergo.. daisychain your PINs and pack 'em as tight as you can - well, have fun to hit exactly that extractor there in the middle later on if you happen to need to scan again for that noble gas down there, but that's another story.
Distance of PINs there in the picture.. 15km.

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
http://img90.imageshack.us/i/pipinsdaisychainedalong.jpg/

Another thing for those perfectionistic micromanagers out there (don't look at me).. distribution of materials on the planet shifts the moment you start digging - yeah digg that.
I checked with sev planets now.. put down the PCC, put down extractors.. processors, storages.. doesnt matter yet.
But the moment you hit that survey button for one of the extractors and select a source you can start pulling out your hair as your perfectly placed daisychain (ya know, right on top of the hottest spot on the planet) will be off several thousand kilometers from the new hotspot(s).. got a plan B ready?

before/after hitting that survey/select source thingy..
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
http://img101.imageshack.us/i/pidistributionmapbefore.jpg/

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.04.18 11:19:00 - [52]
 

You can avoid getting extractors stuck after they have gone inactive by doing something that requires a 'submit' before doing a survey on the extractors again. The 'submit' seems to reset the activity flag of all structures on the planet and thus the 'available but busy' flag will not be set. Unstucking a stuck extractor by using a 'submit' unaffiliated with the stuck extractor did not work.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.18 11:53:00 - [53]
 

2 chars see different distributions on same planets at the moment.. I hope this doesn't stay this way..?!?

Qivalar
Posted - 2010.04.18 12:34:00 - [54]
 

Moving deposits? Never seen that. Sure it's not a bug?

Lister829
Gallente
Black Sheep Crew
Posted - 2010.04.18 13:17:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Abrazzar
You can avoid getting extractors stuck after they have gone inactive by doing something that requires a 'submit' before doing a survey on the extractors again. The 'submit' seems to reset the activity flag of all structures on the planet and thus the 'available but busy' flag will not be set. Unstucking a stuck extractor by using a 'submit' unaffiliated with the stuck extractor did not work.


I had this working on last build. had 5 extractors and 1 processor linked to command center. when I logged on, I would switch schematic on processor create new routes for input/ outputs and submit submit. then when I scan on extractors they would always find new deposits and start right up. don't know if this still works on new build.

Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.04.18 14:08:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Lister829
Originally by: Abrazzar
You can avoid getting extractors stuck after they have gone inactive by doing something that requires a 'submit' before doing a survey on the extractors again. The 'submit' seems to reset the activity flag of all structures on the planet and thus the 'available but busy' flag will not be set. Unstucking a stuck extractor by using a 'submit' unaffiliated with the stuck extractor did not work.


I had this working on last build. had 5 extractors and 1 processor linked to command center. when I logged on, I would switch schematic on processor create new routes for input/ outputs and submit submit. then when I scan on extractors they would always find new deposits and start right up. don't know if this still works on new build.

This is from the current build.

Speec
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.18 14:16:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Keledia
tl;dr extractors seem to be broken after running out, re-building the 1st extractor you select fixes them

This morning, all my extractors were finished so did another scan and selected the highest rate deposit. Clicked both submits and went onto the next extractor. Checked back on my first 1 and it said "extracting: nothing", which i thought was abit strange but just assumed i'd messed up; so i repeated the scanning and selecting....but again it failed to extract anything. I did notice that i got this error message:

"10:45:52 Notify You cannot begin exploiting the specified deposit. The facility's foreman does not appear to be answering his communicator, as he is likely out supervising the current deposit."

But that was only with the first extractor i selected. This same issue with extracting not beginning after selecting a desposit happened with all my extractors on that planet. What i assumed was that the extractor was still showing the same highest rate deposit (which i'd mined out) so selected the next 1 down. This worked on the majority, but a few i had to select the 3rd highest rate. However, the first extractor i selected on the planet still didn't work even after trying other deposits.

My only solution to the first extractor not working was simply to decomission and re-build it.

I then went to my second planet and got the same error from my first extractor that was also finished. But this time i went straight to decomissioning it and rebuilding it. This lead to my other extractors working properly after selecting a new deposit.






There appears to be a cooldown untill you can use the extractor on a new surveyed site. I ran into the same issue, went away for a bit, came back and was able to set the extractors to a new site.

There is however no cooldown timer anywhere or any UI indicator that the cooldown exists. In all honesty, I'm somewhat happy that it does exist because having to rebuild 150 mexes every 8 hours would become very, very tiring.

Gillbird
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.18 20:56:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Tres Farmer
Originally by: Dunkle Lars
One problem I noticed was on a temperate planet. 2 extractors linked and routed to a storage facility -> linked and routed to a basic factory set for "bacteria" production. Schematic says it needs 6000 micro organism for production but even when I hit 20k micro organism the productioncycle wouldn't start.. I tried cutting the storehouse out of the loop feeding the factory directly from the harvesters.. Same problem

Known bug or?

Did you link it?
Did you route it?
Did you submit it?
Did you wait for the cycle? PI cycle 'explained'


I wondered that too, but seems that there is a little bit delay when production starts. I dont know is it lag or actual delay, but my production started after a while waiting.

Camios
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2010.04.18 23:09:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Camios on 18/04/2010 23:11:22
I am definitely not going to play with it if:

1. It is instanced (PI is instanced right now).

or

2. There is no way to send stuff down to the planet surface for every planet.
Right now the cargo links are missing for the planets in conquerable space (at least in BY-MSY). Will alliances be able to build them? Hope we will have infos soon.



And BTW some planets in FD- are not accessible, so I hope you fix it.

Tres Farmer
Gallente Federation Intelligence Service
Posted - 2010.04.19 00:12:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Camios
There is no way to send stuff down to the planet surface for every planet.
Right now the cargo links are missing for the planets in conquerable space (at least in BY-MSY). Will alliances be able to build them? Hope we will have infos soon.

Just put down a Launchpad in PI mode.. a Orbital Cargo Link will appear at the planet for you to interact with.


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