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Mr Xanatos
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:05:00 - [121]
 

It may be a nice quick cash maker for CCP, how many people are currently inactive at a deep safe, say 1000 players have to come back and activate an account to rescue some deeps safe assets, that's 15k USD right there with people trying to save their stuff.

This is gonna be epic. Its not like the code will work first time out either.

I Predict:

Random bookmarks deleted that were within the 10 AU range

Random ships that were within the 10 AU range exploding

Maybe a POS here and there imploding because somebody put one too many "if" or "else" statements in the code

LOL, I cant wait to see the unforeseen fallout due to poor QA with this mechanic.

Al'ar Darkwind
Caldari
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:09:00 - [122]
 

So while I don't really agree with the idea of blowing up a ship that logs into a deep safe after this change goes through, here is why they are doing it:

1) Sit a ship with a TCU in the hold at a soon to be unwarpable deep safe before this new change in a system you have Sovereignty in.
2) Log in the pilot after the change and have your Alliance drop Sov in the system.
3) Deploy the TCU at the now unwarpable safe spot.
4) Win Eve.

Note this is to explain why they are blowing up all ships in these deep safes after the change. This is also assuming that you could not warp to the TCU if it was deployed outside of the 10 AU "ring" detailed in this change.

BFish
Gallente
Bushwhackers
Rough Necks
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:11:00 - [123]
 

Wtf is this sh*t.

/emoragequit

db T
SniggWaffe
FREE KARTTOON NOW
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:11:00 - [124]
 

I remember from a fan fest interview, how some CCP dev (or was it the CEO?) was talking about how they observe the game, notice neat things the players do and add that as an actual function.

What you have done here is see how the players have fixed a problem you caused (lag on bridge in), and chosen to remove it.

You are actually making the game worse, congrats.

Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:14:00 - [125]
 

So instead of fixing lag, you are removing the only to get in system when there is heavy lag. So if i have a pos coming out of RF i will just camp the system with my 200 dudes and no one can enter the system. Because if they try and get in the system through the gate well they will die in a horrible fire with out ever loading grid. If they open cyno 10 AU away from my bombers they will die in a horrible fire without able to do anything at all(and probally not loaded grid aswel).

Yeah good way to fix lag CCP.

Kethry Avenger
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:16:00 - [126]
 

So first CCP Lemur unless you are trying to stir up the trolls and flamers you should consider posting your next blog earlier in the day and being available to answer the worst of the misunderstandings immediately. Like CCP Chorontis did in the last blog.

Second, the wording on what distance is safe isn't exactly clear. Can you make a little diagram in MS paint to clear it up. Picture worth a thousand words and all.

Third, any chance for a feature to warp to specific, x y z coordinates in a system to be put in place so that creating good safe spots can be created. Without them having to be way outside the system to be effective. So they can be placed within the new limits but at odd vectors to the other celestial objects. There by giving large fleets safe places to form while still in probe range but not in directional scan range.

BAteh
Penumbra Congregatio
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:18:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Firvain
So instead of fixing lag, you are removing the only to get in system when there is heavy lag. So if i have a pos coming out of RF i will just camp the system with my 200 dudes and no one can enter the system. Because if they try and get in the system through the gate well they will die in a horrible fire with out ever loading grid. If they open cyno 10 AU away from my bombers they will die in a horrible fire without able to do anything at all(and probally not loaded grid aswel).

Yeah good way to fix lag CCP.


What he said.

Meno Theaetetus
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:20:00 - [128]
 

Originally by: Lirinas
I agree, there's a lot of people here that aren't reading the information properly, but as I mentioned in my own earlier post, CCP's current model of implementation is very confusing and could use improvement.

As a side note, I'm rather entertained by all of the people whining like little kids for CCP to fix the lag. These whiners obviously have no comprehension how a system with the complexity of EVE can be to "fix". CCP has been trying to get people on Sisi for a while now to help fix these very issues. I applaud CCP for putting out a "call to arms" to get as many people on Sisi to help track-down these issues. I'm willing to bet most of these whiners that keep complaining don't even bother logging into Sisi to help with these troubleshooting sessions.


If that was a troll, then damn it, you got me big time.

1) I pay my money, I expect to receive at least a decent quality of service (even though this is wavered in the EULA), you kind just expect company's to provide at least a hint at what they advertise.
2) I have, and quite a number of 0.0 players have participated in numerous sisi testing days.
3) You obviously have NO idea of what is actually going on concerning these performance issues, we're not talking about lolz my missile transaction is taking a while to complete in jita, we're talking fleets of 100-200 never loading system, entire fleets attempting to fight in conditions, (1000+ playable pre dominion) getting killed without ever seeing the grid. This is beta bug testing stuff, not what you would expect from game that has been in development for 7+ years.


Cinori Aluben
Minmatar
Gladiators of Rage
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:21:00 - [129]
 

Edited by: Cinori Aluben on 12/04/2010 23:33:41
GJ, some good will come from this. Yet another "little thing" implemented that improves everyday gameplay. Unscannable titans are not a good thing.


As others have noted however, please be aware of glitches/errors that may happen due to the coding implemented, and deal with those petitions carefully and fairly.
Get ready for the wtfragequit petitions about POSs/capitals/supercapitals/trophy-ships that get deleted.

Pellit1
Caldari
Fatality.
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:22:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Pellit1 on 12/04/2010 23:22:11
This is bullshit! I am personally going to rally everyone I can to complain about this crap.

Kell Braugh
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:23:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: BFish
Wtf is this sh*t.

/emoragequit


Can i have your stuff?

The TCU reason above is valid rationale for removing ships at points that could be unwarpable post change.

For all the people complaining about thier safes, and even ships/assets parked in them, the simple fact is that the only way to create these safes is and has been through exploits of the game mechanics.

- Using the map panel to create bms (old old style deep safes) was fixed after being named an exploit.
- Probing fighters: same, called exploit and fixed.
- Misusing the e-warp & log in and logout mechanic: obviously now being called an exploit and being fixed.

In legal terms, you are all 'using the fruit of the poisoned tree'.

You can't gain an advantage via an exploit (even it it wasn't officially an exploit at the time it done and say that any action, ability, or current ship location is legit.

Granted, I'd rather see the lag fixed first, but I'm not against cleaning up the artifacts of yesterdays exploits none the less.

The fact of the matter is that there is no valid game mechanic that can produce these 50, 300, 900 au safe spots. The ones made from missions-- fine. I would agree its valid, but that doesn't mean the game can't adapt and change. Just becuase the game ALLOWS you to do something, doesn't mean its how the mechanics were intended.

Elsa Nietzsche
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:24:00 - [132]
 

So this really doesn't impact me as I have no deep safe spots but my question is, why is CCP wasting time on this issue when they need to be working on the 0.0 lag?
Please tell me there's some technical reason for this, and removing this 'feature/bug' will greatly enhance the games performance.

And if you respond with the whole 'we have a team devoted to addressing the 0.0 lag issue' then I will be more than glad to point you to a number of threads detailing other issues you can and should be working on before this trivial matter.

I really like how you guys try and you've done a great job, but y'all's priorities of things that need to be resolved sometimes are more than just out of touch with with the players think need to get resolved.

Let's go look at that pre-dominion 'zomg this is what we're doing folks' dev blog and compare it to what we actually have in game.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:25:00 - [133]
 

GARPA strikes again

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:25:00 - [134]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 12/04/2010 23:26:56
Originally by: Cinori Aluben
GJ, Nothing but good comes from this. Yet another "little thing" solved that improves everyday gameplay.

Get ready for the wtfragequit petitions about capitals/supercapitals/trophy-ships that get deleted out there...

CCP do have a sense of humour though as they reduce the base insurance pay for the supercaps at the same time. So not only do people have their ship destroyed, they get no ISK back either. Laughing

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:29:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Kethry Avenger
Second, the wording on what distance is safe isn't exactly clear. Can you make a little diagram in MS paint to clear it up. Picture worth a thousand words and all.


Actually, it's very clear. They worded it pretty precisely to avoid the sorts of misunderstandings that this thread is full of. Maybe for people who don't speak English as their native language it's unclear, though, so let me try to clarify it. Let's look at an example:

Let's say you have a system called Example and in this system, there is only one planet, Example I, and that it is 500 AU from the star. The limit they're talking about is 510 AU from the star, not 10 AU from any celestial object. So in our simple example system, you could have a spot 10 AU, 50 AU, or 100 AU from the nearest celestial object with no problems--the only thing you can't have is a spot that is over 510 AU from the star.

So the distance from the nearest celestial object is completely irrelevant--the only thing that matters is the distance from the sun to the further celestial object, to which you add 10 AU to get the deep safe-spot cutoff point.

Hopefully that makes things clear. BTW, there was someone who made a diagram and posted a link to it already in this thread. Here it is.

Lord EmBra
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:30:00 - [136]
 

I remember a time when CCP looked at what creative players was doing in their sandbox game and then took those ideas and continue to build upon them.
Created game mechanics and interfaces etc to further enrich the game.

These days it seems they are simply just deleting all "new" ideas and chaining players to fit into their own little narrowminded box.

BABARR
PARABELUM-Project
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:31:00 - [137]
 

Edited by: BABARR on 12/04/2010 23:31:49
This change got a name : CLOAK WAR.
That the only thing to notice.
Moaaar cloak, moaaar lol PVP.

Jenina Hawke
Minmatar
Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish
Big Bang Quantum
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:33:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Jenina Hawke on 12/04/2010 23:35:11
Originally by: Kell Braugh
<snip> the simple fact is that the only way to create these safes is and has been through exploits of the game mechanics. <snip>


NOT true. Mission safespots are frequently outside of the 10AU perimeter.

If the problem is the 50+ AU deepsafes, then remove THOSE - not all offscan safespots. But do not implement a "remove all ships in such spots" - instead move them to a safespot just inside the perimeter.

Kestraa
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:35:00 - [139]
 

Edited by: Kestraa on 12/04/2010 23:39:41

Bleh.... 3 things that are more important to work on:

1.) Perma cloakers - although the players being at work, sleeping, etc. for 8 hours or more, a cloaked enemy in your system is just a pain in the a** as you don't know when he will wake up, and come for you... - it's like macro miners: although not at their computer they do their work in game... So if you (CCP) worry about "Ships in these locations being very difficult to pin down" think about those afk-threats... auto-logoff or outo-decloak after some time are the first two possible solutions that come to my mind...


2.) Lag
3.) More lag...

Deep safes give the opportunity to circumvent the problems of high lag in large scale battles, when you want to get in to a system through a cyno. By removing Deep Saves, the effect of lag on large scale battles becomes even worse. Locking down a system will be even easier than today...

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:38:00 - [140]
 

Originally by: Jenina Hawke
NOT true. Mission safespots are frequently outside of the 10AU perimeter.


How many agents are located at the furthest away celestial object from the sun? Probably none.

Jenina Hawke
Minmatar
Dromedary Goat Albatross and Fish
Big Bang Quantum
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:42:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Jenina Hawke
NOT true. Mission safespots are frequently outside of the 10AU perimeter.


How many agents are located at the furthest away celestial object from the sun? Probably none.


Ok, I will help you with your comprehension problems!

Agents live in stations (well, most of them).
Missions are in space.
Some missions are in systems where all objects are within 4.5AU or less from the sun.
Some missions in such systems are still more than 14.5AU from any warpable object.
These are good, valid and not illegal bookmarks which are offscan.

Now they will be invalidated by CCP - who made them.

Chienka
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:44:00 - [142]
 

CCP,

You're completely bonkers. This change illustrates how much you do not understand the game.

Qolthus
ldiocracy
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:45:00 - [143]
 

Quote:
This creates a division between older "haves" and newer "have-nots": as a new player coming into the game...

This argument is not valid and can not be used without CCP removing T2 BPO's from the game. Shiney ships and loot is fine, people should be rewarded for extremely long servitude but T2 BPO's affect the balance of the economy.

On the rest of the dev blog, its was always going to happen, use the safes while you can.

Alar Tangor
Caldari
Decadence.
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:47:00 - [144]
 

Edited by: Alar Tangor on 12/04/2010 23:50:23
if this goes through we will start seeing a whole lot more of this on all sides http://ragealliance.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=6286979


story behind this for the empire dweller is: Atlas tried to get into system while rage/me held the field, never loaded grid while NC forces did clay shooting at the SC ships that were decloaking one by one



hepatitisDD
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:50:00 - [145]
 

Ahahaha so tell me, how badly are you going to **** this up? Oops typo, you're 10au from a celestial, DELETED, logs show nothing hope you keep paying :15bux: though.

Kweel Nakashyn
shadow and cloaking
Yggdrasill.
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:50:00 - [146]
 

Edited by: Kweel Nakashyn on 12/04/2010 23:52:31

Fail CCP. 10 AU from the star is small enough not to get all planets.
Also, this is another brutal nerf for vets (who have a lot of stuff within deep). You shouldn't play with assets like this.

ArmyOfMe
Hysera.
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:51:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Vuk Lau
CCP Lemur and CCP Greyscale when is the last time time any of you played in 0.0 a bit?

I am seriously concerned about sanity of you guys, if you spent even a 10 minutes of CCP resources on this while letting literaly dozens of other more urgent stuff waiting to get fixed.

Not to mention the complete lack of logic behind this change with current state of your game, but I cant wait to see the rightfull tears of the guys who are on 1+ month break for the game, or just dont give a feck for horrible devblogs like this one, and figure after new patch, they lost their ships and stuff cause of this "CCP Nozh style" change.

Seriously get a clue and stop playing with your customers.

listen to this man for once

Banlish
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:52:00 - [148]
 



So instead of fixing the lag (the majority of the reason people are using this stupid thing) CCP will instead punish players into the ground.

Let me put this in much clearer terms.

Players are hungry peasants.
Lag is a blight on all the crops in the fields.
The deep safes are food that grows free in the forest (aka a way to get into a system since bombers and non-working grids screw everyone)
So instead of giving people food (aka fixing lag, or making it so players can get into systems)
You decide to burn down the forest and tell people eat from the fields!!!
We say "we can't it's rotten and we get sick and sh*t all over the kingdom!"
You say "I can't hear you, there's all kinds of food there ENJOY!!!" <----- Lag still not fixed.

So we now have battles become who-gets-into-the-system-first-wins. Nice.


Crias Taylor
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:55:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: Crias Taylor on 12/04/2010 23:56:29
Does this mean next time the node crashes and my fighters are in warp will they go *poof* and be unprobable since they often end up further than 10 AU.

Also, Ev0ke you can save any complaints you may post. I've been robbing your deep safes. Thanks for leaving ships at them.

Magnolya
Posted - 2010.04.12 23:59:00 - [150]
 

People come on, there is no lag in Jita, I mean, in EVE. ugh what, there is more eve after Jita?

What is this fleet batels you speak of? Rolling Eyes


Signed for being sad with the Deep safe removal Evil or Very Mad


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