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alt20111974
Posted - 2010.04.15 10:18:00 - [721]
 

My question is: even if these "new deep safes" are 10au or more are allowed in the new expansion, how will they be made?
CCP is nerfin the old method using log off.

Tarhim
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.15 10:37:00 - [722]
 

Originally by: Spring Wind
*******s.. what else can i say
deepspots was an interestin' part of the game, realy interestin' .. and you just ruin it! Evil or Very Mad


What exactly was so interesting about them? They only exposed flaws in simulated universe. You were, according to the map, few systems over, but in reality you were in same solar system.

All this complaining about lost feeling of infinite space is lots of bull.

Dan O'Connor
Cerberus Network
Dignitas.
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:05:00 - [723]
 

Edited by: Dan O''Connor on 15/04/2010 11:05:24
All in all it's just a...

nother Nerf of The Wall

Meno Theaetetus
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:20:00 - [724]
 

Remove the ability to warp to a cyno.

...that is all.


TheBlueMonkey
Gallente
Fags R Us
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:27:00 - [725]
 

Blog related threadnaughts should really have more ccp updates.

say, once a day, if not more.
Letting the general populous know what's going on wether that be a rethink or a "DADDY SAID NO" stand point

Jack Dant
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:32:00 - [726]
 

Originally by: alt20111974
My question is: even if these "new deep safes" are 10au or more are allowed in the new expansion, how will they be made?
CCP is nerfin the old method using log off.


The one remaining method of making "deep" safes is running missions and bookmarking the spots. If you are lucky, you get spots off the plane, out of scan range, especially in big systems. Highly unreliable, and doesn't work in conquerable 0.0.

Escalation plexes might follow the same distribution as missions, but that's even more unreliable.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:34:00 - [727]
 

Originally by: Shade Millith


IIRC, at that time, scorpions had the highest possible speed in EVE. A full 8 MWDing scorpion covered a grid pretty much instantly once it was up to speed. Nanovaga's had NOTHING on that thing for raw speed


Out of curiosity, how long could a scorpion maintain that top speed? I would think the capacitor penalty also stacked, and the cap usage of 7-8 MWDs all at once would be pretty draining.


SyntaxPD
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:35:00 - [728]
 

Edited by: SyntaxPD on 15/04/2010 11:40:20
Ok, there're 2 problems figured in dev blog:

1.
Quote:
Ships in these locations have always been very difficult to pin down, and following the changes made to the scanning system last year they've become nigh-on impossible to locate.

Right solution - to make counter for this like "super-duper-deep-infinite-range-probe" that cant give 100% result. It will not cut our game experience and even make it wider.

2.
Quote:
a division between older "haves" and newer "have-nots"

Right solution - make new special probe, which have not scan facilities, but we can warp directly to it. This will allow new players to make such deep spots, destroying said "division".

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:39:00 - [729]
 

Originally by: TheBlueMonkey
Blog related threadnaughts should really have more ccp updates.

25 pages is NOWHERE NEAR a threadnaught! It is merely a few whiners (relative to the size of the player base) repeating themselves!

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:54:00 - [730]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/04/2010 11:54:51
Quote:

The one remaining method of making "deep" safes is running missions and bookmarking the spots. If you are lucky, you get spots off the plane, out of scan range, especially in big systems. Highly unreliable, and doesn't work in conquerable 0.0



The point of EvE is that CCP want that players actually DO find out the others and have that scary thing called PvP.

All those pathetic excuses to find the most impossible ways to every meet anyone else should be removed.

It's an unconsensual game, unconsensual means that the others are entitled to eventually find your "I studied the last logoffski + cloak + DSS + grid game + unscannable super-sensor booster" combo made in order to forfeit the very definition of unconsensual PvP game.

CCP cannot allow their game to rot like that.

The only debatable part of this is about their "not solved first" laggy management of blobs, which game mechanics favor instead of penalizing.

Sable Moran
Gallente
Moran Light Industries
Posted - 2010.04.15 11:55:00 - [731]
 

Originally by: War Kitten
Originally by: Shade Millith


IIRC, at that time, scorpions had the highest possible speed in EVE. A full 8 MWDing scorpion covered a grid pretty much instantly once it was up to speed. Nanovaga's had NOTHING on that thing for raw speed


Out of curiosity, how long could a scorpion maintain that top speed? I would think the capacitor penalty also stacked, and the cap usage of 7-8 MWDs all at once would be pretty draining.


The eight mwd's destroyed the cap of the scorpion, IIRC you could get two cycles out of the mwd's then the cap would be dry. So no, even back in the times of multi mwd setups you couldn't use them to fly manually from system to system.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2010.04.15 12:00:00 - [732]
 

I realize this post will probably be lost in the shuffle, but what the heck...

Wouldn't it be cool if this was the precursor to user-creatable bookmarks that are stored on the local client instead of the server?

Talk about reducing lag and database hits... move the bookmarks to the client and remove the need to secure them by letting anyone make a bookmark anywhere in a system, whether in game or through a user-made editor.

The only thing they'd need to do is impose a reasonable limit to the distance from the sun in each system to prevent ridiculous distances... say 10au out from the furthest celestial?

(Although I'd pick a fixed number like 150au and call it a day, making the tiny solar systems suddenly MORE desirable for hiding things, and write it up as "the ships computer can only lock on to things 150au from the sun because it was designed by Minmatar and they can't count higher than that" or something.)

Mr SmartGuy
Posted - 2010.04.15 12:04:00 - [733]
 

deep safe spots were only used by local channel trols that are ”too cool” to smacktalk while cloaked.

TheBlueMonkey
Gallente
Fags R Us
Posted - 2010.04.15 12:33:00 - [734]
 

Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: TheBlueMonkey
Blog related threadnaughts should really have more ccp updates.

25 pages is NOWHERE NEAR a threadnaught! It is merely a few whiners (relative to the size of the player base) repeating themselves!


You're right, no feedback is AWESOMES!! \o/

Paknac Queltel
Baden's Army
Posted - 2010.04.15 12:37:00 - [735]
 

Originally by: War Kitten
I realize this post will probably be lost in the shuffle, but what the heck...

Wouldn't it be cool if this was the precursor to user-creatable bookmarks that are stored on the local client instead of the server?

Talk about reducing lag and database hits... move the bookmarks to the client and remove the need to secure them by letting anyone make a bookmark anywhere in a system, whether in game or through a user-made editor.

The only thing they'd need to do is impose a reasonable limit to the distance from the sun in each system to prevent ridiculous distances... say 10au out from the furthest celestial?

(Although I'd pick a fixed number like 150au and call it a day, making the tiny solar systems suddenly MORE desirable for hiding things, and write it up as "the ships computer can only lock on to things 150au from the sun because it was designed by Minmatar and they can't count higher than that" or something.)
This sounds very interesting indeed. Doesn't sound likely, though, as it would vastly reduce the amount of time necessary to set up some good bookmarks. It would be pretty simple to do some magic with the datadump to get good bookmarks for the entire world.

I know I would like to have good autogenerated undock BMs, gatescan BMs, off-dscan BMs, and I'm quite willing to spend the couple of hours necessary to write something for that.

James Razor
Amarr
Fallen Angel's
White Noise.
Posted - 2010.04.15 12:48:00 - [736]
 

Well, CCP again fails at setting prioritys as they did in the past. Instead of fixing real issues that cause day to day drama, like the fleet lag or similar issues, they decided to screw up a game mechanic that actually IS usefull. And even helps us to get fights in 0.0 by using deep safes to drop in a fleet in a occupied system.

They come with shiny new stuff but dont bother to fix the old. We still got bugged anomalies in upgraded systems and a lot of stuff that does not work as intended. Their reimbursment policy is a joke, they advertise mass battles as a goal in eve but fail to provide the proper enviroment (-> stable server). And i am afraid of the day tyranis will hit to TQ, because the new planet interaction will cause again more server load and that means again more lag.

Oh, excuse me. I forgot: Your logs show nothing and there is no lag in EveConfused

Lolobritzita
Posted - 2010.04.15 13:29:00 - [737]
 

sorry i cannot go back through 25 pages to see if this particular issue came up so please have a look in this thread

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1302457

thank you

Jack Dant
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.15 13:37:00 - [738]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/04/2010 11:54:51
Quote:

The one remaining method of making "deep" safes is running missions and bookmarking the spots. If you are lucky, you get spots off the plane, out of scan range, especially in big systems. Highly unreliable, and doesn't work in conquerable 0.0



The point of EvE is that CCP want that players actually DO find out the others and have that scary thing called PvP.

All those pathetic excuses to find the most impossible ways to every meet anyone else should be removed.

It's an unconsensual game, unconsensual means that the others are entitled to eventually find your "I studied the last logoffski + cloak + DSS + grid game + unscannable super-sensor booster" combo made in order to forfeit the very definition of unconsensual PvP game.

CCP cannot allow their game to rot like that.

The only debatable part of this is about their "not solved first" laggy management of blobs, which game mechanics favor instead of penalizing.


So we should remove normal safespots too? And all sorts of bookmarks, while we are at it. How about we reduce each system to a single grid where you spawn at 0? Wouldn't that make for lots of PVP?

I live in lowsec, I am -10, and I should be the one complaining about the death of nonconsensual PVP. But deep safes are not that: I use a variety of 60-100 AU deep safes for many things, usually to evade larger gangs. Good gangs with probers find me without problem, so I still have to be on the lookout for probes.

Deep safes are not invulnerable unless they are a thousand AU deep, not to a prober with deep space probes. They are just another strategic tool in the dance between the gangs that usually predates actual combat.

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.04.15 13:52:00 - [739]
 

Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 15/04/2010 13:51:57
Originally by: Mr SmartGuy
deep safe spots were only used by local channel trols that are ”too cool” to smacktalk while cloaked.


why would you need a deep safe if you're cloaked? Rolling Eyes

obvious troll is obvious

Vincent Gaines
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.04.15 13:55:00 - [740]
 

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
Remove the ability to warp to a cyno.

...that is all.




That right there.

Broadcast it as a beacon but remove the warp to ability.

HOWEVER

allow it to be probed down, with core probes.

Karak Terrel
As Far As The eYe can see
Chained Reactions
Posted - 2010.04.15 14:08:00 - [741]
 

Edited by: Karak Terrel on 15/04/2010 14:09:13
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

Well tbh the "simulation" aspect is broken by design and all those claiming the current "OH BUT WE HAVE VAST SPACE" are delusional.



The simulation is not perfect, far from it, but a wall would make it even worse. As pointed out by others before there are also other Problems if the wall still let you pass with an impulse drive. If you cross the barrier with impulse others may scann you down, but they will not be able to warp to you. Tools to scann ships in deep space and a tool to make deep savespots are the better solution and they don't need that wall. The distance for the deep savespots should be limited by time. You can make them, but it should take you massive time to create a 100AU savespot.

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

If made in the correct direction, adjacent and close systems should be reachable by making those 5000 AU deep bookmarks and cross system gate-less jumps would be possible. THAT is vast space.
Instead you still stay in a "virtual box" with infinite limits but only 1 system.



But who says that this will never be introduced as a way to travel? At the moment this is not possible because a system change is a session change and you switch to a different node in the cluster. But i think one day this limitation will be removed and the stargates will still be used cause this is a much faster way. You can then "Autopilot" in warp directly to Jita from Rens, but there will also be tools to intercept such traders.

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha

BTW we are already limited, unless someone can show me how to get out of the systems currently in game and find new ones. Even WHs afaik are connected with regular regions (even if in a random and ever changing way).



There is no way atm, but again, i don't see why this should not be implemented in the future.

I think you actually don't see the potential of this game. It is massive, and it is not one of the games that will stay the same forever, CCP will constantly improve it, add new stuff and usualy they destroy the walls and don't build them.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.04.15 14:11:00 - [742]
 

LF Ideas for a service

Quote:

So we should remove normal safespots too?



Why, normal safespots can be probed (unless cheating with some unprobable T3).

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.04.15 14:21:00 - [743]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/04/2010 14:21:11
Quote:

The simulation is not perfect, far from it, but a wall would make it even worse



There's already a wall, the one separating the systems. Sure, you can pretend you are free to float inside the infinite yet strict limits each system got, but that's just "pretend".


Quote:

If you cross the barrier with impulse others may scann you down, but they will not be able to warp to you



Ofc CCP did not think about the endless exploits their change will bring in, they'll nerf them in some idiotic way later.


Quote:

But who says that this will never be introduced as a way to travel? At the moment this is not possible because a system change is a session change and you switch to a different node in the cluster.



Because gates are not only design limitations but also design features, made to choke the passage between systems.
With a free travel, everyone would totally and safely go across the whole 0.0 because if you made jumps thru random points before, inside and past a system, the possibility to be intercepted while out of warp would be close to zero.


Quote:

I think you actually don't see the potential of this game. It is massive, and it is not one of the games that will stay the same forever, CCP will constantly improve it, add new stuff and usualy they destroy the walls and don't build them



EvE peaked before these days, now it's nearing maturity.
One day the next half checked patch will break fundamental and old code or they'll exhaust all of the possibilities of the current engine and will have to restructure and rejuvenate it.
That day, it will be a dice toss, between a sort of EvE 2.0 or SWG alike fail "gameplay upgrade".

Jack Dant
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.15 14:38:00 - [744]
 

Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
LF Ideas for a service

Quote:

So we should remove normal safespots too?



Why, normal safespots can be probed (unless cheating with some unprobable T3).



Deep space probes have a 128 AU range. Most moderately deep safes can be probed with those, and the really deep ones that can't, it's mostly because of a client issue (zoom on the solar system map) making moving probes hard, not because of any server limitations.

Claire Voyant
Posted - 2010.04.15 14:45:00 - [745]
 

Originally by: Lolobritzita
sorry i cannot go back through 25 pages to see if this particular issue came up so please have a look in this thread

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1302457

thank you

You just wasted 3 seconds of my time, and you owe me a new soda and a new keyboard

thank you

CEOcat
Gallente
CAT Corp
Posted - 2010.04.15 15:01:00 - [746]
 

Edited by: CEOcat on 15/04/2010 15:02:28
Originally by: Torothanax
You might consider moving people who logged out in space to the nearest station though.

Newsflash: Super-capitals can't dock.

Originally by: Torothanax
Deep safes have always been a bit of an exploit anyway.

No, the 'exploit' is having supercap pilots in your address book and instantly scanning them down and killing them when they log in before they have chance to align out of there login spot.

Logging at POSes for long periods is just not an option. Neither is login in a normal safe, you need the warp time to a deep safe to allow you to align out if you are scanned down when you log in.

There are a few things that could help this.
-Ships that log out under cloak should just vanish rather then de-cloak and emergency warp like they do now.
-Ships that log in should have like a 30-60 second window at least where they don't appear on d-scans or probes when they enter the game. So that they at least have time to finish there emergency warp before they are scannable.

Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2010.04.15 15:02:00 - [747]
 

Me thinks all of CCP is out to watch their island explode and forgot to post the new devblogRazz
More devblog awesomeness is required before Iceland sinks to the bottom!

Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2010.04.15 15:20:00 - [748]
 

Originally by: CEOcat
Edited by: CEOcat on 15/04/2010 15:02:28
Originally by: Torothanax
You might consider moving people who logged out in space to the nearest station though.

Newsflash: Super-capitals can't dock.



Newsflash for the newsflash: CCP GM's can make a planet dock if they want to...Rolling Eyes

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.04.15 15:31:00 - [749]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/04/2010 15:40:05
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/04/2010 15:31:58
Quote:

Deep space probes have a 128 AU range. Most moderately deep safes can be probed with those, and the really deep ones that can't, it's mostly because of a client issue (zoom on the solar system map) making moving probes hard, not because of any server limitations.



Of course if people limited themselves to 128AU range, CCP would not prioritize nerfing it so soon.

CCP does not want to nerf basing on server usage or whatever, but because (and the hypocrisy of the posters show so hard here) by making the safe spots so far away it's impossible to catch them.
By the time anyone arrives on such distant place they have just warped to the next.
This non counterable perma-avoidance of encounters is the cause of the nerf, the rest are just added minor motivations if anything at all.

Quote:

-Ships that log out under cloak should just vanish rather then de-cloak and emergency warp like they do now.



The logoffsky gods would be forever grateful for this.



Edit: I doubt CCP or even the other posters are so stupid to believe that *everyone* here are Titan pilots whose only pure and honest intention is just to log in.

Monster Dude
Posted - 2010.04.15 15:39:00 - [750]
 

Hey, gents!

But listen! We'll soon get walking on station and posibility to change dress. That is the solution!!! Don't you see it? Cool

After dying in all those lags, and those poor cap pilots who will find themselfs in pods and all other infair things - we will be able to dress our chars like emo and start crying. That is sertainly right direction of developing the PVP game!


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