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Wulfstar 1
Posted - 2010.04.14 22:21:00 - [691]
 

Hey that sucks about ss that are more then 10 au

So because like we as older players that we are being penalized for being an old player for taking away deep space safe spots from us. So what’s next ccp give every new player that joined from this point on as many skill points that took me all this time it train to now.

what’s next ccp would do is to nerf my skill points down to like a noob now just because they do not think its fiar for the noobs because they have not been playing or paying as long as a older player has so give them the same skill points as an older player has to a noob player because they have just started to play eve. Then they should just go head and giver every one mother ships and 900 bil in isk too.

Dasfry
Caldari
Demio's Corporation
United Stellar Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.14 22:28:00 - [692]
 

Excellent!Cool

Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.04.14 22:37:00 - [693]
 

Still waiting on 'today's' update.

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.04.14 22:46:00 - [694]
 

Originally by: Bongo Debbie
Still waiting on 'today's' update.

Originally by: CCP Lemur
There will be a follow-up blog later today or tomorrow.

Really.... It was neither a long or complicated sentence... Rolling Eyes

If your limit to reading sentences is that they're 8 words long or shorter, then possibly you should not reply to posts...

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
Posted - 2010.04.14 22:57:00 - [695]
 

*yawn*

It's a bug that your ship adopts pre-warp inertia mechanics while still in warp when you log off.

You can call a bug a feature if you want. Doesn't change how CCP sees it.

It's probably been a very low priority bug to fix, but it seems to have made the new code base, so we've all been notified. Now we're all enjoying the fallout of a bug that existed so long its become a beloved game mechanic.


Bruno Bourque
Posted - 2010.04.14 23:00:00 - [696]
 

Not all deep safes were created by bugs... back in the day cepters did insane speeds and were able to create these.

TheLordofAllandNothing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.14 23:03:00 - [697]
 

Fix the problem of why we have to resort to these measures to bridge in a fleet safely, not fix the ****ing solution.

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.04.14 23:21:00 - [698]
 

Originally by: Tarhim
Originally by: Sajeera

Thats exactly how it was in AoC, you see things, you just cant go there because there is an invisible wall that stops you.



You don't understand. You will be able to still go anywhere where you could have before, even 5000AU from sun. Just without a warp drive.



Have you ever tried to calculate how long it takes to travel 1 AU without warp drive?!
You'll be lucky to make it in half a year...

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2010.04.14 23:27:00 - [699]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 14/04/2010 23:27:27
Summing up the contents of this thread:
  1. Valid complaint that players in ships logged off outside the limit should be moved, not have their ships destroyed.
  2. Semi-valid complaint that one of the ways deep safes are being used is to compensate for lag. The problem is real, but not a reason not to implement this. If anything, EVE has shown us that no matter what improvements are made, players will always blob beyond the breaking point of the servers....
  3. Lots of whinging about limits in an internet spaceship game where spaceships can only go 20 km/s, and come to a rest if the engines are turned off...
Amazing that this has taken 24 pages...

Glarion Garnier
Thermal reaction
Posted - 2010.04.14 23:39:00 - [700]
 

devs .. reconsider this idea. Destroying players stuff for them not reading the dev blog would be a disaster from your part.

there are multiple ways to **** of a customer

1. Arrogance towards customers
2. Indefference towards customers
3. Underestimate the customers

Start destroying ppl's stuff is like shop keeper saying "I dont want you in mys tore, go away"

Do not convert to WOW.

The greed road may be tempting but it's a short road that leads to fail.
The long road that is walked with patience is the key for ultimate riches.

And do not remove tech 2 bpo's. They are part of eve.

DeODokktor
Caldari
Dark Templars
The Fonz Presidium
Posted - 2010.04.15 00:05:00 - [701]
 

Originally by: Bruno Bourque
Not all deep safes were created by bugs... back in the day cepters did insane speeds and were able to create these.


1 au is about 150,000,000 km....

I dont think cepters EVER made deep safes...

You could use scan probes to make deep safes, with more than one person... scan them out with the WORST probe, and you get a large deviation, warp to the deviation (if it's in the correct direction) and add quite a few AU's on top of their location, they scan for you, rinse and repeat...

Then there was the sub-map "bug"...

Using scanprobes and the deviation of those probes to create safe spots shouldnt be considred a bug, but bookmarking the adjacent solar system (or a random xyz coord as it turns out) was a bug, as is the logoffski-bookmark bug.

Gasig Howlsen
Peces Of Eighte
NowWhat.
Posted - 2010.04.15 00:43:00 - [702]
 

CCP limiting their "sandbox" game,Rolling Eyes what's new?

Taedrin
Gallente
Kushan Industrial
Posted - 2010.04.15 00:58:00 - [703]
 

Originally by: DeODokktor
Originally by: Bruno Bourque
Not all deep safes were created by bugs... back in the day cepters did insane speeds and were able to create these.


1 au is about 150,000,000 km....

I dont think cepters EVER made deep safes...

You could use scan probes to make deep safes, with more than one person... scan them out with the WORST probe, and you get a large deviation, warp to the deviation (if it's in the correct direction) and add quite a few AU's on top of their location, they scan for you, rinse and repeat...

Then there was the sub-map "bug"...

Using scanprobes and the deviation of those probes to create safe spots shouldnt be considred a bug, but bookmarking the adjacent solar system (or a random xyz coord as it turns out) was a bug, as is the logoffski-bookmark bug.


It used to be possible to fit and activate multiple MWDs on a ship. People were able to achieve INSANE speeds, and produce very deep safe spots by simply by activating their MWDs.

jurkie turkey
Posted - 2010.04.15 01:17:00 - [704]
 

WAAAA the Player V Player croud is losing some old bookmarks from old exploits. Waaa Waaa Waa. kind of harde for a "carebare" to care when every dam time i go in to low with a badger to pickup market orders on minrals I get poded or gate camped.

You whant to have CCP care about your safe spots? how about showing some moral fiber out there? Instead of 2 year olds that have to get there "gun off" on everyone that might be a easy target. I mean you whant ships arms and ammo I need things like mega and morph. and when i go to pick them up ya gank it. For the life of me i can not feel bad that you are going to lose some "deep safe" spots. The fleet jump in lag you folks couse buy having 300 ship fleets is not CCP's foult it is yours. use smaller fleets the server only has a limmeted bandwith for craps sake. the grid will load quicker. jump in 10 30 ship fleets in a scattered patttern and gee you can get them in with less lad from the grid loads. then have a covert ship in there as a cloked stager that actes as a fleet warp point for muster.

Think people you are not thinking.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Sigma Special Tactics Group
Posted - 2010.04.15 01:45:00 - [705]
 

Originally by: Punkt Landung
I see they’ve changed their minds now, here’s my thoughts as I’d already written em!

I read once that the original Eve developers realized fairly quickly that the universe they created could function as a viable social experiment where player actions and interactions would create something truly unique that no team of software developers could hope to create with code alone. I suspect that the original hope would have been to support these unique player creations and allow them to be implemented into general game play.

Jules Verne said, "Anything one man can imagine, other men can make real." In Eve anything that can be discovered or instigated by players IS real, until it is destroyed by CCP. There are places within the virtual worlds of the servers that have never been discovered and still lie, secretly hiding, from both players and developers. Surely this is part of the magic of the game?

In seeking to circumvent some of the limitations of the Eve universe, players have demonstrated that virtual exploration can unlock areas of space that were believed to be inaccessible. By using a ‘bug’ or an ‘exploit’ they have not only facilitated smoother game mechanics but they have also created an impression of the vastness of Eve space and the epic scale that must be a cornerstone of any ‘space’ game. The concept of people storing ships and supplies unimaginable distances out in space is just really cool. I appreciate that CCP never intended this to happen, but the fact that it has, has actually made the game scale even more impressive.

You cannot have a void where all players are in direct sight of anyone who chooses to look for them. The central appeal of a wilderness is its ‘emptiness’ of other human life. Your own country of Iceland has only 320,000 inhabitants and epic landscapes to inspire the human soul – how inspiring would these landscapes be if your population was 3 million and the mountains were covered in houses?

OK, so your computers can’t cope with this sort of expansion? Fair enough, explain it and I suspect most people will grudgingly except that technology has its limits. If you can’t deliver the vast lonely universe we want then we’ll have to accept the one you give us. BUT, I, like many others, can live without sim city on planets, new ship models, planet textures, browsers, FPS interaction, walking on stations etc, etc, etc – we want a truly massive, deep, dark, immersive space game and all the meaningless fluff is just not necessary.

The Eve universe is already unique, artistic, beautiful, and awe inspiring. You can’t make it more so by squeezing it into smaller and prettier rooms. If so, the concept of ‘space’ becomes meaningless; you might as well call planets and stations, ‘cities’ and put them under fixed sized ‘bio-domes’ connected by motorways.




I approve of this message.

The feel of vast space, and the content in it, whether CCP starts putting complexes out there or other players do, makes this game worth playing, even if a real pain in the butt sometimes. An arbitrary limitation on how far out you can go just seems so dumb. I would sooner accept a larger scale cap-loss per distance than a glass wall.

DNSBLACK
Gallente
Dirt Nap Squad
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2010.04.15 01:53:00 - [706]
 

Originally by: jurkie turkey
WAAAA the Player V Player croud is losing some old bookmarks from old exploits. Waaa Waaa Waa. kind of harde for a "carebare" to care when every dam time i go in to low with a badger to pickup market orders on minrals I get poded or gate camped.

You whant to have CCP care about your safe spots? how about showing some moral fiber out there? Instead of 2 year olds that have to get there "gun off" on everyone that might be a easy target. I mean you whant ships arms and ammo I need things like mega and morph. and when i go to pick them up ya gank it. For the life of me i can not feel bad that you are going to lose some "deep safe" spots. The fleet jump in lag you folks couse buy having 300 ship fleets is not CCP's foult it is yours. use smaller fleets the server only has a limmeted bandwith for craps sake. the grid will load quicker. jump in 10 30 ship fleets in a scattered patttern and gee you can get them in with less lad from the grid loads. then have a covert ship in there as a cloked stager that actes as a fleet warp point for muster.

Think people you are not thinking.


Ok i cant stop laughing . By the way are you the FC who was in charge of the providence defense. OMG You need to get out more. By the way me killing you helps me make more isk on the market by preventing you from flooding it with more ships. Supply and demand. hey here is a tip have a scout or pay some one to protect you.

Nairova Intaku
Posted - 2010.04.15 02:20:00 - [707]
 

Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Originally by: Punkt Landung
I see they’ve changed their minds now, here’s my thoughts as I’d already written em!

I read once that the original Eve developers realized fairly quickly that the universe they created could function as a viable social experiment where player actions and interactions would create something truly unique that no team of software developers could hope to create with code alone. I suspect that the original hope would have been to support these unique player creations and allow them to be implemented into general game play.

Jules Verne said, "Anything one man can imagine, other men can make real." In Eve anything that can be discovered or instigated by players IS real, until it is destroyed by CCP. There are places within the virtual worlds of the servers that have never been discovered and still lie, secretly hiding, from both players and developers. Surely this is part of the magic of the game?

In seeking to circumvent some of the limitations of the Eve universe, players have demonstrated that virtual exploration can unlock areas of space that were believed to be inaccessible. By using a ‘bug’ or an ‘exploit’ they have not only facilitated smoother game mechanics but they have also created an impression of the vastness of Eve space and the epic scale that must be a cornerstone of any ‘space’ game. The concept of people storing ships and supplies unimaginable distances out in space is just really cool. I appreciate that CCP never intended this to happen, but the fact that it has, has actually made the game scale even more impressive.

You cannot have a void where all players are in direct sight of anyone who chooses to look for them. The central appeal of a wilderness is its ‘emptiness’ of other human life. Your own country of Iceland has only 320,000 inhabitants and epic landscapes to inspire the human soul – how inspiring would these landscapes be if your population was 3 million and the mountains were covered in houses?

OK, so your computers can’t cope with this sort of expansion? Fair enough, explain it and I suspect most people will grudgingly except that technology has its limits. If you can’t deliver the vast lonely universe we want then we’ll have to accept the one you give us. BUT, I, like many others, can live without sim city on planets, new ship models, planet textures, browsers, FPS interaction, walking on stations etc, etc, etc – we want a truly massive, deep, dark, immersive space game and all the meaningless fluff is just not necessary.

The Eve universe is already unique, artistic, beautiful, and awe inspiring. You can’t make it more so by squeezing it into smaller and prettier rooms. If so, the concept of ‘space’ becomes meaningless; you might as well call planets and stations, ‘cities’ and put them under fixed sized ‘bio-domes’ connected by motorways.




I approve of this message.

The feel of vast space, and the content in it, whether CCP starts putting complexes out there or other players do, makes this game worth playing, even if a real pain in the butt sometimes. An arbitrary limitation on how far out you can go just seems so dumb. I would sooner accept a larger scale cap-loss per distance than a glass wall.


Please don't make the EVE sandbox less sandbox-like <_<

Ban Doga
Posted - 2010.04.15 02:22:00 - [708]
 

Edited by: Ban Doga on 15/04/2010 02:22:55
Originally by: Taedrin
Originally by: DeODokktor
Originally by: Bruno Bourque
Not all deep safes were created by bugs... back in the day cepters did insane speeds and were able to create these.


1 au is about 150,000,000 km....

I dont think cepters EVER made deep safes...

You could use scan probes to make deep safes, with more than one person... scan them out with the WORST probe, and you get a large deviation, warp to the deviation (if it's in the correct direction) and add quite a few AU's on top of their location, they scan for you, rinse and repeat...

Then there was the sub-map "bug"...

Using scanprobes and the deviation of those probes to create safe spots shouldnt be considred a bug, but bookmarking the adjacent solar system (or a random xyz coord as it turns out) was a bug, as is the logoffski-bookmark bug.


It used to be possible to fit and activate multiple MWDs on a ship. People were able to achieve INSANE speeds, and produce very deep safe spots by simply by activating their MWDs.


Let's assume a very deep safe spot is 100 AU away.
Let's also assume people managed to reach 1000 km/s.

100 AU = 100 * 150,000,000 km = 15,000,000,000 km
15,000,000,000 km / 1000 km/s = 15,000,000 s = 250,000 min = 4,166 h = 173 d


So unless the ships were much faster or very deep is much closer people did not go that far "simply by activating their MWDs".

Alice Celadon
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.15 03:05:00 - [709]
 

Originally by: Ban Doga

Let's assume a very deep safe spot is 100 AU away.
Let's also assume people managed to reach 1000 km/s.

100 AU = 100 * 150,000,000 km = 15,000,000,000 km
15,000,000,000 km / 1000 km/s = 15,000,000 s = 250,000 min = 4,166 h = 173 d


So unless the ships were much faster or very deep is much closer people did not go that far "simply by activating their MWDs".


Assume you can fit as many MWDs as you want and the bonuses don't have stacking penalties. This gives a speed of [Base Speed]*6^S where S is the number of midslots.

S=7 or 8 allows for speeds in excess of 1,000,000 km/s which achieves 100au in .173 days. I'm guessing Scorpions were employed for the task.

Torothanax
Posted - 2010.04.15 03:27:00 - [710]
 

Edited by: Torothanax on 15/04/2010 03:29:55
I really don't see a problem with the idea. Space is infinite, but there's really no reason to be out further then the proposed limit. Sucks that some people may lose items, but hey, they left them in space. You might consider moving people who logged out in space to the nearest station though.

Deep safes have always been a bit of an exploit anyway.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.15 04:04:00 - [711]
 

There is no need to destroy any ships outside the limit who are logged off.

Just make the ship ONLY able to warp to or cyno to a location inside the 10au limit when they log back in.

So people don't try to keep a fleet sitting in a location to attack from a deep space location right after the patch day... just make the limit "any ship owned by a pilot who has not logged in... in x weeks".

This will insure anyone who temporarily left the game will not loose Titans or Super Caps when they come back.

Shade Millith
Caldari
Macabre Votum
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2010.04.15 04:08:00 - [712]
 

Originally by: Alice Celadon
Originally by: Ban Doga

Let's assume a very deep safe spot is 100 AU away.
Let's also assume people managed to reach 1000 km/s.

100 AU = 100 * 150,000,000 km = 15,000,000,000 km
15,000,000,000 km / 1000 km/s = 15,000,000 s = 250,000 min = 4,166 h = 173 d


So unless the ships were much faster or very deep is much closer people did not go that far "simply by activating their MWDs".


Assume you can fit as many MWDs as you want and the bonuses don't have stacking penalties. This gives a speed of [Base Speed]*6^S where S is the number of midslots.

S=7 or 8 allows for speeds in excess of 1,000,000 km/s which achieves 100au in .173 days. I'm guessing Scorpions were employed for the task.


IIRC, at that time, scorpions had the highest possible speed in EVE. A full 8 MWDing scorpion covered a grid pretty much instantly once it was up to speed. Nanovaga's had NOTHING on that thing for raw speed

Vidork Drako
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.15 06:14:00 - [713]
 

This change should have gone hand in hand with other changes to negate understandable rage... you do understand the carrot and stick?

1. Scrap Deep Safes but dock everything parked in them and increase the silly and very probable new 10AU limit to something more realistic, like 50AU
2. Quadruple the size of stations and let Supercaps dock or anchor themselves to the station
3. A cyno creates a few hundred mini-grids around it so people can load faster rather than all landing on the same grid *or* a cyno dumps you at a random spot in the system

Arbiter Reformed
Minmatar
Garnet Resources
Posted - 2010.04.15 06:35:00 - [714]
 

RABLE!rable!RABLE!rable


also . . . summin about ghost training

ULTImatio
Posted - 2010.04.15 07:13:00 - [715]
 

Deep-Safe-Spots removals on Tyrannis patch deployment.

Found in this post:
http://www.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=748

CCP promotes the method for creating those Deep-Safe-Spots for new players on there own site.

CCP source:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Safe_Spot_Bookmarking

CCP posted article:
http://sites.google.com/site/lsouljacker/home/Poseidon-Manual.pdf
====================================

After some more thinking I think it is a good thing CCP finaly sets a maximum border to the outer region of a system. I think we can compare it with the Solar System Heliosphere, that our own solar system has.

The only problem I have with the current plan is that its only 10AU from fardest object in the system. Like in our own sollar system the heliosphere is twice as far from the Sun as Pluto.

====================================
Solar System Heliosphere:
http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/images/heliosphere.jpg

An immense bubble-like structure surrounding the Sun and formed by the solar wind and is squashed together by interstellar magnetic fields.

The “heliospheric termination shock” is at a distance of about 12bn kilometers from the Sun. This is about twice as far from the Sun as Pluto.

This termination shock is a turbulent region is where the solar wind (a fast-moving stream of electrically charged particles expelled by the Sun in all directions) slows down significantly. It marks the boundary between the inner heliosphere (where the solar wind dominates) and the heliosheath, where the effects of the interstellar gas begin to dominate.
====================================

I like to introduce the following.

* Solar System Heliosphere background info ingame + visual effect in system map.

* Solar System Heliosphere at twice the distance from the Sun as fardest planet.

* No bookmarking / scanning outside the Heliosphere.

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.04.15 07:26:00 - [716]
 

Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 15/04/2010 07:27:08
Quote:

There are many other aspects than spaceships already in the game.. are you sure you actually play that game? The walls actually destroy that simulation feeling



Well tbh the "simulation" aspect is broken by design and all those claiming the current "OH BUT WE HAVE VAST SPACE" are delusional.

If made in the correct direction, adjacent and close systems should be reachable by making those 5000 AU deep bookmarks and cross system gate-less jumps would be possible. THAT is vast space.
Instead you still stay in a "virtual box" with infinite limits but only 1 system.

BTW we are already limited, unless someone can show me how to get out of the systems currently in game and find new ones. Even WHs afaik are connected with regular regions (even if in a random and ever changing way).

Tarhim
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.15 07:33:00 - [717]
 

Originally by: Ban Doga
Originally by: Tarhim
Originally by: Sajeera

Thats exactly how it was in AoC, you see things, you just cant go there because there is an invisible wall that stops you.



You don't understand. You will be able to still go anywhere where you could have before, even 5000AU from sun. Just without a warp drive.



Have you ever tried to calculate how long it takes to travel 1 AU without warp drive?!
You'll be lucky to make it in half a year...


Well yes, but it still doesn't make the limit any kind of invisible wall. It is just another restriction on FTL travel.

Ynot Eyob
Minmatar
Nisroc Angels
The Obsidian Front
Posted - 2010.04.15 08:42:00 - [718]
 

Edited by: Ynot Eyob on 15/04/2010 08:45:18
One of the things which makes those iv spoken with interested in EVE it the huge space without real hidden walls. What you are saying it that all of New Eden now become a "small" areana like any other game.

Deep Space bookmarks removed, alright, The internal computer cannot calculate the coordinates that fare out. But destroying everything out side those boundaries??

Its nice to have the 300 - 1000 AU bookmarks but really not needed, but i can imagine the Titan and SC pilots love them.

Spring Wind
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.04.15 08:56:00 - [719]
 

*******s.. what else can i say
deepspots was an interestin' part of the game, realy interestin' .. and you just ruin it! Evil or Very Mad

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.04.15 08:58:00 - [720]
 

Originally by: ULTImatio
CCP promotes the method for creating those Deep-Safe-Spots for new players on there own site.

CCP source:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Safe_Spot_Bookmarking


That's an EVE wiki entry. Wikis by design are a collection of user-generated content. The only exception are pages marked "official" in the EVE wiki, such as the Sovereignty guide.

Originally by: ULTImatio
CCP posted article:
http://sites.google.com/site/lsouljacker/home/Poseidon-Manual.pdf


lolwut? ugh What about that makes you think it has anything to do with CCP?


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