open All Channels
seplocked EVE Information Portal
blankseplocked New Dev Blog: The Great Deep Safe Nerf of 2010
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: first : previous : ... 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 ... : last (28)

Author Topic

WhiteSavage
Gallente
Ever Flow
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2010.04.14 02:00:00 - [541]
 

Good idea but terrible thing to implement it NOW considering its our only way to combat lag.

Your forcing fleets to jump straight into each other now... amazing ccp. Its as if your TRYING to kill med-large scale combat.


...hmm

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.04.14 02:04:00 - [542]
 

Originally by: Marlenus
I'm totally cool with nerfing the stupid-deep safe spots; saw that one coming.

But 10AU? Really? That's too short.

First, missions routinely take you to about 20AU from a planet; if that planet is the "furthest out" celestial, those missions will all be broken, at least the 50% of the time that the mission spawns in an "out" direction. 20AU is thus a logical minimum.

Second, some of us have put a ton of effort into scanning skills specifically for finding hard-to-find distant objects. You're makeing a rule that says everything has to be in d-scan range of something, ferchrissake. Isn't that excessive?

The deep space probes have a 256AU range. I think that would make a good "shell" distance if there must be one. If there are database issues, I could settle for 64AU.

But I think it's ESSENTIAL that players be allowed to retain some sort of safes in places the d-scanner cannot reach. It's one thing to eliminate ancient advantages, it's another to dumb things down so that hard-won probing skills don't get you anywhere than a fresh alt with a d-scanner can get.


We're 18 pages in and the misconception that you can't get more than 10AU from celestials is persisting. It's quite possible to be 20AU from all celestials.

The new 'boundary' is a sphere, centred on the sun. The radius of this sphere is equal to the distance from the sun to the furthest celestial + 10 AU. You can make safes at ANY point within the sphere and many of those will be more than 10AU from any celestial. Any of these safe spots is fine, provided it's within the sphere.

As an example: the stargate in a system is 50AU from the sun. This is the most distant object from the sun. The boundary is a sphere that is 60AU radius and centred on the sun.

256AU probes might not be commonly used, but in some systems when you're sitting at a planet that is 80 AU from the sun, the other side of the sphere is at least 170AU away, so a probe dropped right next to you can reach the other side of the sphere. I know you can move probes around and all, but if you're after a quick scan and recover you want to save as much time as possible.

As to the change itself, probably not the best way to announce it, the effects are yet to be seen. As usual, players will improvise, adapt and overcome. I'm not a fan of it, but whining isn't my style. I'd rather analyse it and start working on ways to adapt.

AdmiralJohn
Gallente
Origin of Sanshaa
Posted - 2010.04.14 02:08:00 - [543]
 

Edited by: AdmiralJohn on 14/04/2010 02:09:31
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
We're 18 pages in and the misconception that you can't get more than 10AU from celestials is persisting.
Train reading comprehension to V first, and then post.

EDIT: We're 18 pages in and the misconception that people don't "get it" still persists.

Playing Eve
Posted - 2010.04.14 02:38:00 - [544]
 

Originally by: Zetenga
Please, Please, Please, Oh please fix the sound issue that we have had for over a year! I have looked and can't find once where the Dev's have even commented once on this problem! Gawd, I wanna hear the battle happening, not the stupid background noise or my hardeners being on. Please in your devlog, please give us an update on weather or not the sound problem is something your going to fix at all and if so, when it will be!

Neutral


Dear Concerned Player,

Thank you for playing Eve Online! We appreciate your feedback. We have worked hard to come up with a solution that is fair to all players and also reduces lag. As a result, we are removing all sounds from the game with the exception of the delightfully musical sound of strip miners. We're sure that you will enjoy this game enhancement as much as we.

Best Regards,

PyroTech03
Caldari
Legion of Darkwind
Order of the Void
Posted - 2010.04.14 02:39:00 - [545]
 

I don't think it's a good idea due to the fact that we are putting up invisible walls. The fact that you could theoretically keep flying out was something that attracted me to eve....not even 6 months in now and they're taking that away from me.

I don't know much about these "deep safes" so i couldn't care much....but if your gonna put up the little wall, why does it have to be 10 AU?

This is one check lost for the things and idea's i like about EVE.

Shaka Quatuic
Posted - 2010.04.14 02:45:00 - [546]
 

Edited by: Shaka Quatuic on 14/04/2010 02:45:49
Can we please get over the idea that the limits have anything to do with planets or other celestial bodies? the core of the problem is that CCP is deliberately choosing to artificially restrict the movements of players even more than they have previously. Frankly, I think the player base is finally starting to get fed up with it, even if said base hasn't fully realized the intent before this post.

to be perfectly honest, I am beginning to wonder how long it will be before our movements become even more restricted... no more tactical BM's for example - such as undock instawarps, or indeed any BM more than 150km off of an established celestial object. I heard that once upon a time, it was possible to warp from one system to another (before my time). then came the gates. then the nano nerfs, then the bookmark nerfs (of which this is merely the most recent). we can only anchor POSes (the design of which sucked from day one) at very specific locations. cant do this... cant do that... when will it stop?

eve is certainly feeling more and more like WoW as time goes by.

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2010.04.14 02:47:00 - [547]
 

Wasn't EVE supposed to be expanding? 'cause this kinda sort of maybe looks like the complete oposite. LaughingLaughing

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.04.14 02:59:00 - [548]
 

Originally by: AdmiralJohn
Edited by: AdmiralJohn on 14/04/2010 02:09:31
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
We're 18 pages in and the misconception that you can't get more than 10AU from celestials is persisting.
Train reading comprehension to V first, and then post.

EDIT: We're 18 pages in and the misconception that people don't "get it" still persists.


I'm not sure what I didn't comprehend, the following statement makes it clear that the poster didn't understand that it is possible to make safes outside of d-scanner range in the new system. Indeed some mission spaces will fall into this category and should be bookmarked immediately.

Originally by: Marlenus


Second, some of us have put a ton of effort into scanning skills specifically for finding hard-to-find distant objects. You're makeing a rule that says everything has to be in d-scan range of something, ferchrissake. Isn't that excessive?




Matterick Boon
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:03:00 - [549]
 

Edited by: Matterick Boon on 14/04/2010 03:10:45
i like to do drawings
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff48/thetedrock/eve/6d11c35b.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff48/thetedrock/eve/cb43c8f0.jpg

(Note numbers were pulled out of thin air. I don't really remember the distance that gate is from the sun)

remember solar systems are not 2D and anything within Distance Of Furthest Celestial From Sun + 10AU is safe/vaild (eg. 90AU + 10AU = 100AU). So this makes a happy sphere with vast space for decent safes.

AdmiralJohn
Gallente
Origin of Sanshaa
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:08:00 - [550]
 

Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
I'm not sure what I didn't comprehend
Er, this part:
Originally by: Marlenus
First, missions routinely take you to about 20AU from a planet; if that planet is the "furthest out" celestial, those missions will all be broken, at least the 50% of the time that the mission spawns in an "out" direction.

But I'm in a frumpy mood and moaning in this thread makes me feel better. You're just a victim.

Dtech
Minmatar
The Suicide Kings
True Reign
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:08:00 - [551]
 

Changes seem fine to me, but I have one concern with regard to fighters. From experience if a carrier cloaks or explodes while their fighters are out in space and in warp, they seem to end up in random locations at least 100 AU from the solar system.

Would this coming change eliminate that feature? Would fighters stay within the solar system or would still end up in the far reaches? Would someone still be able to locate and warp to fighters 100 AU from the system or would they be forever stuck in space?

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:09:00 - [552]
 

Originally by: Matterick Boon
Edited by: Matterick Boon on 14/04/2010 03:03:31
i like to do drawings
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff48/thetedrock/eve/6d11c35b.jpg
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff48/thetedrock/eve/cb43c8f0.jpg

remember solar systems are not 2D and anything within Distance Of Furthest Celestial From Sun + 10AU is safe/vaild (eg. 90AU + 10AU = 100AU). So this makes a happy sphere with vast space for decent safes.


Nice drawings.

Personally I would be happy with this -if- they weren't removing the ability to make deep safes. How are you supposed to get one 100AU above the sun exactly? They've been killing methods of creating deep safes since they've been able to find them instead of embracing the idea. Now if this were to change... but it won't.

Also, I realize that there may be a need for a hard limit, but 10AU is still short, there are some very small systems out there where 10AU from the sun is still scannable. Try 64 (combat probes) or 256 (deep space) from the farthest object, and I'll be willing to talk.

Matterick Boon
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:13:00 - [553]
 

Originally by: BeanBagKing

Nice drawings.

Personally I would be happy with this -if- they weren't removing the ability to make deep safes. How are you supposed to get one 100AU above the sun exactly? They've been killing methods of creating deep safes since they've been able to find them instead of embracing the idea. Now if this were to change... but it won't.

Also, I realize that there may be a need for a hard limit, but 10AU is still short, there are some very small systems out there where 10AU from the sun is still scannable. Try 64 (combat probes) or 256 (deep space) from the farthest object, and I'll be willing to talk.


what if they just shifted all the current safes that are outside the bubble to the edge? i know it doesn't give a solution for very small systems but at least your hard work isn't totally erased.

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:14:00 - [554]
 

Originally by: BeanBagKing
Personally I would be happy with this -if- they weren't removing the ability to make deep safes. How are you supposed to get one 100AU above the sun exactly? They've been killing methods of creating deep safes since they've been able to find them instead of embracing the idea. Now if this were to change... but it won't.


Yeah, it's almost like we'll have a situation of "haves" and "have-nots." Neutral

I love that CCP thinks these decisions through so thoroughly. Rolling Eyes

Makar Kravchenko
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:18:00 - [555]
 

Originally by: Vincent Gaines


Here's a clue: THE FLEET SYSTEM CAUSES A ****TON OF LAG.




I know, I know, off topic right? MORE RELATIVE THAN SCRAPPING DEEP SAFE SPOTS CCP.

BeanBagKing
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:19:00 - [556]
 

Edited by: BeanBagKing on 14/04/2010 03:20:16
Originally by: Matterick Boon

what if they just shifted all the current safes that are outside the bubble to the edge? i know it doesn't give a solution for very small systems but at least your hard work isn't totally erased.


Again, something to make me happier, especially because this would probably also mean shifting stuff at said bookmarks to the edge.

Really most of my grip comes from why I started playing. I was looking for a Freelancer replacement, in that game you can fly anywhere manually, between planets if you have a few hours iirc. Eve isn't quite the same, but it still had that massive "I can go anywhere!" feeling. Putting hard walls and removing methods of going places kills that feeling.

A lot of the arguments against this seem to be "it was never ment to be anyway, doing so is a bug, they are just fixing that". Just because it was a bug or an exploit does that mean it was a bad idea? I'd rather see an implementation to be able to travel 100au straight up. Even if there is a magic wall out there somewhere for real life server performance reasons the more you remove that wall, the better it is. 10au (from the farthest out, yadda yadda) feels like an awful close wall.

Not everyone will agree with this, it's just my feelings, and in the end we don't get to decide, I just hope CCP listens to players on this one.

Matterick Boon
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:22:00 - [557]
 

Edited by: Matterick Boon on 14/04/2010 03:30:49
i'd like to know what happens if you fly your ship out to this new mythical wall that's been created (after the update). do you explode? do you bounce? do you start talking damage and are encouraged to fly back into "known space" before you explode (will the damage increase over time so you can't take a bunch of RR buddies with you to poke god in the eye? you know this will happen, people hate boundaries and are curious explorers), are you magically teleported to somewhere inside the safe zone?


please please please don't make it just a bounce off an inviable wall. each system having a massive magical micrometeorite belt/sphere around it would kinda be lame but way better then bouncing. also don't use a micrometeorite belt that's from Shattered Horizon and they will sue you. make it like radiation or something.

Baka Lakadaka
Gallente
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:28:00 - [558]
 

Edited by: Baka Lakadaka on 14/04/2010 03:32:59

Originally by: AdmiralJohn
Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
I'm not sure what I didn't comprehend
Er, this part:
Originally by: Marlenus
First, missions routinely take you to about 20AU from a planet; if that planet is the "furthest out" celestial, those missions will all be broken, at least the 50% of the time that the mission spawns in an "out" direction.

But I'm in a frumpy mood and moaning in this thread makes me feel better. You're just a victim.


No, I understood that and had moved down to the next part (as quoted in my second post).

If being grumpy at me makes you happier, then I'm happy too. At least I've made someone's life better! RazzRazz

Originally by: Matterick Boon
Edited by: Matterick Boon on 14/04/2010 03:28:07
i'd like to know what happens if you fly your ship out to this new mythical wall that's been created (after the update). do you explode? do you bounce? do you start talking damage and are encouraged to fly back into "known space" before you explode (will the damage increase over time so you can't take a bunch of RR buddies with you to poke god in the eye?), are you magically teleported to somewhere inside the safe zone?


please please please don't make it just a bounce off an inviable wall. each system having a massive magically micrometeorite belt around it would kinda be lame but way better then bouncing. also don't use a micrometeorite belt that's from Shattered Horizon and they will sue you. make it like radiation or something.


If you've got a couple of spare months you might be able to find out. 10AU past the furthest object would take months/years to slow-boat even with a very fast ship. Even if you had a mission that was 9.9AU beyond that object and in perfect alignment from the sun, it would take a few weeks (someone else in my corp calculated 17days in a 10k m/s ship).

Shaka Quatuic
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:33:00 - [559]
 

this also seems to me to be - at least in part - to be a ploy by ccp to avoid any pressure to actually create any deep space content. with this nerf, they have effectively destroyed any possibility of making oort clouds, comets, real celestial events etc.

Matterick Boon
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:42:00 - [560]
 

Originally by: Baka Lakadaka
If you've got a couple of spare months you might be able to find out. 10AU past the furthest object would take months/years to slow-boat even with a very fast ship. Even if you had a mission that was 9.9AU beyond that object and in perfect alignment from the sun, it would take a few weeks (someone else in my corp calculated 17days in a 10k m/s ship).


challenge accepted.

Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
this also seems to me to be - at least in part - to be a ploy by ccp to avoid any pressure to actually create any deep space content. with this nerf, they have effectively destroyed any possibility of making oort clouds, comets, real celestial events etc.


maybe it's some terrible attempt to counter lag? "Lets just make the systems really tiny that should fix it."

Playing Eve
Posted - 2010.04.14 03:43:00 - [561]
 

Originally by: Matterick Boon

please please please don't make it just a bounce off an inviable wall. each system having a massive magical micrometeorite belt/sphere around it would kinda be lame but way better then bouncing.


Welcome to EvE:"For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky"

"We come to play in friendship."
(CCP thunderclap) "Then learn what it means to be our enemy, before you learn what it means to be our friend. Die in your safespot!"

"The truth of CCP is your truth; There can be no other for you. Repent your disobedience."

Normin Bates
Posted - 2010.04.14 04:15:00 - [562]
 

Now all the small radius systems will be simple to defend and the large radius sytems will be worthless.

The new SOV system really worked out well. I'm sure this will be the same.Rolling Eyes

NeoShocker
Caldari
Interstellar eXodus
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2010.04.14 04:21:00 - [563]
 

Edited by: NeoShocker on 14/04/2010 04:22:32
I'm all for this nerf, however ... 10 AU is far too short for the restriction. Personally, I think at least 50 AU will be the ideal limit because there are systems bigger than 150 AU and it doesn't make sense if you can't make SS further than 10 AU in those systems... I beg CCP to reconsider the limit.

Hellvin
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2010.04.14 04:33:00 - [564]
 

Originally by: Shaka Quatuic
this also seems to me to be - at least in part - to be a ploy by ccp to avoid any pressure to actually create any deep space content. with this nerf, they have effectively destroyed any possibility of making oort clouds, comets, real celestial events etc.


This is a good point...but they may not be thinking that far ahead. I don't know why they would feel any pressure to create content out there. It would be easy to just say it's "empty space" and let real player-created content take hold. Then, if they want, throw in random drone invasions etc. to keep frontiersmen on their toes.

In any case, I don't understand the "contraction" approacth to the EVE experience. The opposite should be the goal. If I really get the sense that this trend is to be the reality, then I'll rethink investing time and money on my accounts which are based upon a universe that grows over the years.

Kallieah
World of EVEcraft
Posted - 2010.04.14 04:58:00 - [565]
 

Hate and trolling aside, I really do hope that the community gets to keep the deep space safes. The way this is going down just seems to break way too many things in the game from limiting fleet actions to deleting ships and objects, it's not pretty and the NINETEEN pages of mostly hate seem to sum it all up.

Besides, as a previous post mentioned, the idea of setting up a sort of stationless refugee camp at a DSS is a rather interesting concept that actually captures my interest in EVE for once with all the potential fun to be had setting up a squatters' nest of people and their stuff, even without a POS. Taking that away would help, in a small way, push us closer to 'just another MMO' rather than something different. I request fewer limitations on warp rather than more to open the universe.

Draumr Kopa
Rosenthal Hunters
Posted - 2010.04.14 05:06:00 - [566]
 

Edited by: Draumr Kopa on 14/04/2010 05:09:15

CCP please say this is a troll. If it is I applaud you, if it is not you are so out of touch you should step back and sort your ****ing lives out. This problem only needs a broom to clean it up put down the sledgehammer k thx bai.Shocked

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.14 05:07:00 - [567]
 

Is this possibly a precursor to utilizing that space?

Kasarch
XMX Corp
Stain Empire
Posted - 2010.04.14 05:15:00 - [568]
 

Yeah. Good job CCP, now nodes will be crashed every time when overblob FC try to warp fleet to safe spot. More addons - more lag.

Jita Jen
Posted - 2010.04.14 05:36:00 - [569]
 

Things that should take priority over this useless and de-moralizing nerf:

Fix:
-t2 BPOs
-fleet lag
-missiles at model origin
-random missile explosions on ship model (wtf ... new?!)
-moon mining passive income
-t2 frigate balancing
-everything else thats broken...

Seriously, step back and look at the bigger picture here. Try listening to those who pay your salary.

Yodabunny
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.14 05:40:00 - [570]
 

Originally by: NeoShocker
Edited by: NeoShocker on 14/04/2010 04:22:32
I'm all for this nerf, however ... 10 AU is far too short for the restriction. Personally, I think at least 50 AU will be the ideal limit because there are systems bigger than 150 AU and it doesn't make sense if you can't make SS further than 10 AU in those systems... I beg CCP to reconsider the limit.


People still aren't getting it. You can't warp even 1 AU past the farthest celestial object in a given system without an exploit. The current method for making deep safes is not a game mechanic, it requires you to break normal warping mechanics with timed logoffs. We were never intended to be there to begin with, this isn't so much a nerf as a fix. It will allow them, at the very least, to load the proper number of grids in a system instead of additional grids to hold the extrasolar locations that you were never supposed to be able to get to.


Pages: first : previous : ... 15 16 17 18 [19] 20 21 22 23 ... : last (28)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only