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Kilostream
Caldari
Roving Guns Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2010.04.30 17:08:00 - [241]
 

Edited by: Kilostream on 30/04/2010 17:09:25
Originally by: boo3916
....and stop being railroaded and brainwashed by nc leaders, nc do not win every fight, they win some but not all....


The man's right - NC win some but not all. (are any NC leaders claiming NC win every fight, though? I've certainly not heard anyone try to exert that opinion - I think we all know lag can play a part in the large engagements, and from op-to-op either side can catch the ass-end of that).

Actually, since Karbo is SC, I was mentally preparing myself for this to be some sort of engineered propaganda tool but, looking at the daily pies, it's a pretty fair reflection of my perception of overall events I've been involved with, days we've done badly the enemy slice has looked bigger, and days we've done well, our slice has looked bigger.

The tool has it's flaws, but the OP has disclosed these fully and, truth told, the flaws can work for or against either side - you'd be a fool to look at these pies and make any sort of judgement based solely on those, but with that said, it's a nice thing to have, and thanks to Karbo for going to the effort to produce this.

Xtover
Amarr
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.04.30 17:26:00 - [242]
 

Edited by: Xtover on 30/04/2010 17:27:31
Originally by: boo3916
Originally by: Xtover

wn and c02 are neutral, we shoot loads of them too

and stop being railroaded and brainwashed by nc leaders, nc do not win every fight, they win some but not all

i've been in many fights the last few weeks where nc got totally obliterated

its prob about even on both sides tbh
just lets have fun and kill each other, do stats really mean that much ??



PL shoots us also Sad

I've been in many of those fights where we lost horribly... but so far every fight has been a blast when the lag monster isn't around.

edit: trust me, nc leadership does not claim that the NC wins every fight Laughing

BlueMajere
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.30 17:27:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: boo3916
Originally by: Xtover

wn and c02 are neutral, we shoot loads of them too

and stop being railroaded and brainwashed by nc leaders, nc do not win every fight, they win some but not all

i,ve been in many fights the last few weeks where nc got totally obliterated

its prob about even on both sides tbh
just lets have fun and kill each other, do stats really mean that much ??


PL shoots us also Sad

I've been in many of those fights where we lost horribly... but so far every fight has been a blast when the lag monster isn't around.




how does PL shoot you when they're in delve?
or are you referring to over the summer when they absolutely annihalated you guys at ever engagement? because that's not exactly related, bro

Xtover
Amarr
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.04.30 17:30:00 - [244]
 

Originally by: BlueMajere
how does PL shoot you when they're in delve?
or are you referring to over the summer when they absolutely annihalated you guys at ever engagement? because that's not exactly related, bro


*shrug*

Last summer/fall I was shooting PL, goons, and NC




BlueMajere
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.04.30 17:35:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: BlueMajere
how does PL shoot you when they're in delve?
or are you referring to over the summer when they absolutely annihalated you guys at ever engagement? because that's not exactly related, bro


*shrug*

Last summer/fall I was shooting PL, goons, and NC






Wow. I don't even know how to respond to this amount of concentrated derpage

Xtover
Amarr
Suicide Kings
Posted - 2010.04.30 18:47:00 - [246]
 

Originally by: BlueMajere

Wow. I don't even know how to respond to this amount of concentrated derpage


an hero.

Vogue
Gallente
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2010.04.30 22:23:00 - [247]
 

There is a double km for one tower kill: BDV3-T VII - Moon 8, 2010-04-29 15:16:00 on our Razor kb and also on the EVE-SCO one. As i understand the kb's sync with each other. But can this duplicate km be removed.

Karbowiak
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.01 00:20:00 - [248]
 

Originally by: Vogue
There is a double km for one tower kill: BDV3-T VII - Moon 8, 2010-04-29 15:16:00 on our Razor kb and also on the EVE-SCO one. As i understand the kb's sync with each other. But can this duplicate km be removed.



No clue how RAZOR handles deleting mails (if its even done without pleading to the KB admin) - but you simply go to the killmail at us, click Report Mail - and report it as a douplicate..

We will fix it eventually Smile (Chances are it will be right away, but sometimes it'll be upto a week - for no other reason than i cba to look through reported mails every day)

Killpoints..
http://eve-kill.net/?a=about Scroll down to "Portraits, Kills & Real Kills, Kill Points and Efficiency" and "Ship Points & Values"

And you can see how many points and isk a ship is worth, plus how kill points are generated.

As for the insane notion that we have some kind of multiplier added to SC's isk/killpoints - gtfo..
If i ever did such a thing, that would only be for my own character tbh..

If you dont believe in the numbers, dont use them - dont even look at them - simply ignore the website if you think its bogus.
Not like anyone is forcing you to look at it - is there?..

SXyWhile
Gallente
Echo Roaming Industries
Posted - 2010.05.01 02:53:00 - [249]
 

So the North had a good day of pewpew? Why can't you bastards just not die?

Peter Powers
Gallente
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.01 03:37:00 - [250]
 

to answer to a few of the posts:

ok, killpoint question has been answered by karb and others in the thread
(seriously guys, its nothing new how edk based killboards give points)

double mails -> report 'em, you've been told more than once

its 00:00:00 to 23:59:59, not downtime to downtime.

the PL question:
they are not fighting up north, from what i know they dont have standings with the northeners (correct me if wrong)

Also, Panda guys have been fighting in fountain for a while, and from what i know
are not affiliated with the NC either (here, too correct me if wrong).

i think the subject of when someone will get added has been discussed enough.

@Kilostream: Karbowiak creating it? he is hosting it!!! i feel not appreciated here. Cool
but thanks for such a post from your direction :)

Meno Theaetetus
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.05.02 06:26:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Charles Babbage
On two occasions I have been asked,"Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" ... I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Troll Hunters INC.
Posted - 2010.05.02 06:52:00 - [252]
 

Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 02/05/2010 07:02:30
Originally by: boo3916
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

Just 3 question needed.
1. How big the multiplier for SC ? Twisted Evil
2. Why hiding WN. from SC because everyone knows they are go to many operations with SC in north.
3. Why added to killmails from Fountain, when Blast, HUN, Blade. killing anyone ?

4. Just a bonus question for you. Peter Powers why use false datas on his counter page ?


When they lost more ships and ISK than NC everytime they won in killpoints. :D

And forget dumb and other words, dont be angry if P Powers using interesting counts.


If you count WN and CO2 for the SC, you'd have to count PL for the Nc, it'd only be fair.


oh wait, that won't look so good.


wn and c02 are neutral, we shoot loads of them too

and stop being railroaded and brainwashed by nc leaders, nc do not win every fight, they win some but not all

i,ve been in many fights the last few weeks where nc got totally obliterated

its prob about even on both sides tbh
just lets have fun and kill each other, do stats really mean that much ??



Wait!!!
Atlas shot HUN Reloaded through four weeks.
Proof 1
Proof 2
Proof 3
Proof 4

But i see Hun Reloaded with Northern Crusaders.

So you are looking for an objection only, because the real datas with them (+10-20% of losses) won't look so good.

Tell me if the WN. not attacking North why lost there over 1000+ ships there in April ?

With your logic the Hun Reloaded or Atlas not in Northern Crusade because they shot each others but everyone knows they attacking Northern Coalition as WN. and Co2 .

So better you stop being railroaded and brainwashed by sc leaders, because NC never told they win every fight, they win some but not all. Noone talk about NC won all fights and stop manipulating datas.

mkd0815
Caldari
GK inc.
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.02 08:52:00 - [253]
 

Originally by: Peter Powers


Also, Panda guys have been fighting in fountain for a while, and from what i know
are not affiliated with the NC either (here, too correct me if wrong).

i think the subject of when someone will get added has been discussed enough.



i can confirm that we are not Blue to NC.
we normaly just fight inside fountain and nearly always alone ..
it can happen that we make a temp blue with somebody for a op or string of ops ( like with Pl for the BLAST bashing last week ) but in general we really do not care about politics, Sov and NAPs.

some of us where in fountain before PL came, we where there fighting PL, SoT and their renters while they lived there and now we harrass IT renters ... so we really do not care it NC or SC wins that fight as long as we have targets close to home to shoot. and to be clear Fountain is a to good region to stay empty for long . we would prefer some better targets but to be honest if we would get some NC renters instead of IT renters they would be just as bad.

so atm we mostly shoot SC because they are next door but should the NC invade we would shoot them as well


Karbowiak
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.02 15:54:00 - [254]
 

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 02/05/2010 07:02:30
Originally by: boo3916
Originally by: Xtover
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

Just 3 question needed.
1. How big the multiplier for SC ? Twisted Evil
2. Why hiding WN. from SC because everyone knows they are go to many operations with SC in north.
3. Why added to killmails from Fountain, when Blast, HUN, Blade. killing anyone ?

4. Just a bonus question for you. Peter Powers why use false datas on his counter page ?


When they lost more ships and ISK than NC everytime they won in killpoints. :D

And forget dumb and other words, dont be angry if P Powers using interesting counts.


If you count WN and CO2 for the SC, you'd have to count PL for the Nc, it'd only be fair.


oh wait, that won't look so good.


wn and c02 are neutral, we shoot loads of them too

and stop being railroaded and brainwashed by nc leaders, nc do not win every fight, they win some but not all

i,ve been in many fights the last few weeks where nc got totally obliterated

its prob about even on both sides tbh
just lets have fun and kill each other, do stats really mean that much ??



Wait!!!
Atlas shot HUN Reloaded through four weeks.
Proof 1
Proof 2
Proof 3
Proof 4

But i see Hun Reloaded with Northern Crusaders.

So you are looking for an objection only, because the real datas with them (+10-20% of losses) won't look so good.

Tell me if the WN. not attacking North why lost there over 1000+ ships there in April ?

With your logic the Hun Reloaded or Atlas not in Northern Crusade because they shot each others but everyone knows they attacking Northern Coalition as WN. and Co2 .

So better you stop being railroaded and brainwashed by sc leaders, because NC never told they win every fight, they win some but not all. Noone talk about NC won all fights and stop manipulating datas.



Why do you even bother? we told you we wont add WN. to the NC or SC side of things - so stop complaining, if WN actually decides to ally themselves with either NC or SC fulltime we will - but will it ever happen? i very much doubt it..

Now, can i get some cheese with this w(h)ine ?

Kushmir
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.05.02 16:09:00 - [255]
 

Originally by: Karbowiak


Why do you even bother? we told you we wont add WN. to the NC or SC side of things - so stop complaining, if WN actually decides to ally themselves with either NC or SC fulltime we will - but will it ever happen? i very much doubt it..

Now, can i get some cheese with this w(h)ine ?


So when is the killboard coming down? I'm pretty sure the invasion is over, I mean the SC doesn't hold any NC highends and hasn't taken sov anywhere so this killboard seems superfluous. You would be better off adding the server power to the IT killboard which regularly goes down whenever they lose a fight.

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Troll Hunters INC.
Posted - 2010.05.02 16:14:00 - [256]
 

Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 02/05/2010 16:15:45
Originally by: Karbowiak
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

Wait!!!
Atlas shot HUN Reloaded through four weeks.
Proof 1
Proof 2
Proof 3
Proof 4

But i see Hun Reloaded with Northern Crusaders.

So you are looking for an objection only, because the real datas with them (+10-20% of losses) won't look so good.

Tell me if the WN. not attacking North why lost there over 1000+ ships there in April ?

With your logic the Hun Reloaded or Atlas not in Northern Crusade because they shot each others but everyone knows they attacking Northern Coalition as WN. and Co2 .

So better you stop being railroaded and brainwashed by sc leaders, because NC never told they win every fight, they win some but not all. Noone talk about NC won all fights and stop manipulating datas.



Why do you even bother? we told you we wont add WN. to the NC or SC side of things - so stop complaining, if WN actually decides to ally themselves with either NC or SC fulltime we will - but will it ever happen? i very much doubt it..

Now, can i get some cheese with this w(h)ine ?


You won't add ? Yesterday you told, "i just give the datas from eve-kill.net." :D You say it now "we wont add" LOL Its looking when someone lying.

Oh i see, you adding the fake ideas too. Twisted Evil

We know why ? Yes we know it. Because thats won't look so good on SC side isn't ?

Other thing, this is not complaining just telling truth, and the truth too painfull for two SC members, who created a fake statistical counter propaganda. It's time counting real datas from North.
One more thing, i didn't got answer why lost WN. over 1000+ ships at North in April, when before they didn't lose there 6 months ago 200 ships.
Was incident isn't ? Yes we know it they attacking North very hard since April.

Nostradamous
Caldari
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas.
Posted - 2010.05.02 17:15:00 - [257]
 

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
You won't add ? Yesterday you told, "i just give the datas from eve-kill.net." :D You say it now "we wont add" LOL Its looking when someone lying.

Oh i see, you adding the fake ideas too. Twisted Evil

We know why ? Yes we know it. Because thats won't look so good on SC side isn't ?

Other thing, this is not complaining just telling truth, and the truth too painfull for two SC members, who created a fake statistical counter propaganda. It's time counting real datas from North.
One more thing, i didn't got answer why lost WN. over 1000+ ships at North in April, when before they didn't lose there 6 months ago 200 ships.
Was incident isn't ? Yes we know it they attacking North very hard since April.


Read up your answer is in this thread, now its up to you to find it. Neutral

Meno Theaetetus
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.05.02 17:21:00 - [258]
 

Edited by: Meno Theaetetus on 02/05/2010 17:22:50
Try and see past the fact that I'm in the NC for the sake of reason just for a minute.

What is not in question is the quality of the programming, etc, the problem is that everyone knows the original kb software is terrible, it makes mistakes, kills get faked, losses get ommited. This is ok on a per fight / per week / individual kb basis though as everyone looks at the figures and adjusts for any discrepancy. Fine.

However when you take all this information and collate it on mass the output is obviously crap, we are all agreed that the kb makes mistakes and is fallable, so why then are we argueing about the output from these boards being incorrect.

If the NC was shown as winning, would I complain, probably not... Laughing but that doesn't make the figures any more accurate.

GIGO Garbage In Garbage Out.


Peter Powers
Gallente
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.02 22:45:00 - [259]
 

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
it makes mistakes

Since "deciding" to which side a kill belongs in this case is handled by northern crusade, not by the EDK, there are no side-mistakes

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
kills get faked, losses get ommited.

there is nothing i can do to prevent that.

Meno Theaetetus
Gallente
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2010.05.02 23:31:00 - [260]
 

Originally by: Peter Powers

Originally by: Meno Theaetetus
kills get faked, losses get ommited.

there is nothing i can do to prevent that.



No but as soon as you take that data out of the context of the edk, and strip out the ability to break the data down, you mix up the obviously fake mails with the genuine and make the stats pointless.

You should have filtered out non api synced mails.

Karbowiak
Caldari
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2010.05.03 11:29:00 - [261]
 

Originally by: Tiger's Spirit
Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 02/05/2010 16:15:45
Originally by: Karbowiak
Originally by: Tiger's Spirit

Wait!!!
Atlas shot HUN Reloaded through four weeks.
Proof 1
Proof 2
Proof 3
Proof 4

But i see Hun Reloaded with Northern Crusaders.

So you are looking for an objection only, because the real datas with them (+10-20% of losses) won't look so good.

Tell me if the WN. not attacking North why lost there over 1000+ ships there in April ?

With your logic the Hun Reloaded or Atlas not in Northern Crusade because they shot each others but everyone knows they attacking Northern Coalition as WN. and Co2 .

So better you stop being railroaded and brainwashed by sc leaders, because NC never told they win every fight, they win some but not all. Noone talk about NC won all fights and stop manipulating datas.



Why do you even bother? we told you we wont add WN. to the NC or SC side of things - so stop complaining, if WN actually decides to ally themselves with either NC or SC fulltime we will - but will it ever happen? i very much doubt it..

Now, can i get some cheese with this w(h)ine ?


You won't add ? Yesterday you told, "i just give the datas from eve-kill.net." :D You say it now "we wont add" LOL Its looking when someone lying.

Oh i see, you adding the fake ideas too. Twisted Evil

We know why ? Yes we know it. Because thats won't look so good on SC side isn't ?

Other thing, this is not complaining just telling truth, and the truth too painfull for two SC members, who created a fake statistical counter propaganda. It's time counting real datas from North.
One more thing, i didn't got answer why lost WN. over 1000+ ships at North in April, when before they didn't lose there 6 months ago 200 ships.
Was incident isn't ? Yes we know it they attacking North very hard since April.


Are you always this horrible?..

Yes "WE" - cause i can also add to the list if its needed - i run it, Peter runs it but also makes it..

As for looking good or not, who cares? WN shoots at both NC and SC - thus doesn't get added untill they go blue with either side fulltime.
These rules was made during the creation of ECOTRA - and we've been holding to those rules since it was created, so why change it now?..

As for the IT killboard, i offered them twice to run it, they declined both times - then offered to help make it not crash, and their idiot killboard admin decided to cook up some crappy caching solution that worked wonders, or not..
Anyway, im sure their "custom coded killboard" will come soon, heh

Tiger's Spirit
Caldari
Troll Hunters INC.
Posted - 2010.05.03 14:00:00 - [262]
 

Edited by: Tiger''s Spirit on 03/05/2010 14:03:32
Originally by: Karbowiak
As for looking good or not, who cares? WN shoots at both NC and SC - thus doesn't get added untill they go blue with either side fulltime.
These rules was made during the creation of ECOTRA - and we've been holding to those rules since it was created, so why change it now?..

As for the IT killboard, i offered them twice to run it, they declined both times - then offered to help make it not crash, and their idiot killboard admin decided to cook up some crappy caching solution that worked wonders, or not..
Anyway, im sure their "custom coded killboard" will come soon, heh



Ok cheking IT side, how many WN. ship destroyed in April.
Count 16 ships. LOL.
Checking ROL side, 28 ships.

You very seriously, shot each others isn't ?

Now checking NC side. Count 1287 WN ship losses.

This is called fake statistic on your counter.
I hate liars. THX BYE!


Peter Powers
Gallente
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.03 22:52:00 - [263]
 

two quick updates:

since the guy who owns the domain hasnt been available yet,
the northern-crusade domain is not working atm (pointing to the old evsco server, if you havent heard yet, evsco moved servers)
however, it is temporary (till northern-crusade.com works again) available at http://crusade.devedge.eu/

The second update:
on the daily details page it will now show what shiptypes have been killed by who on a daily basis

Peter Powers
Gallente
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.07 10:32:00 - [264]
 

forgot to mention:
the original address http://northern-crusade.com is working again.
also participants lists have been updated to reflect late events.

arjun
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.05.07 13:19:00 - [265]
 

Edited by: arjun on 07/05/2010 13:19:19
wouldnt that be a good oportunity now to feed in the mails involving the "new" participants from april 1? additionally all the mails that were not posted in time could be fed. i am ignorant about how much handwork that would involve but for reflection of the actual events it would be helpful i think.
additional request: is there a way to add the h-w "vulture crew" (they fly with the antichrist) it would make my side look worse but it would be more accurate (also starting april 1).

Peter Powers
Gallente
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.07 22:57:00 - [266]
 

for the same reasons why they wherent added before, their mails wont be added historicaly.

and who are the guys you are talking about?

Bobbeh
Minmatar
Navy of Xoc
The Remnant Legion
Posted - 2010.05.08 09:37:00 - [267]
 

Think he refers to Burn-Eden... Not sure tho.

I understand its an undertaking, thanks for trying.

Things i will admit

SC/NC has lost Close to the same amount of BS and and such fleets.
SC has Lost countless Sbus (at 250mil each)
NC has Lost Pos's and SC has lost some pos's
SC has Lost Alot more Capitals, NC has lost Some Capitals.
NC has lost 1 Super Cap, SC has lost More than 1.

Now I will say by all right the numbers might come out close to the same. But

I find it hard to believe the NC lost 6000 more ships then the SC
Also
I find it hard to believe that the NC has lost 100 Bil more than the SC.

Can i prove it? Naw probably not.
Do i blame ya? No, not at all.
Do i Think its accurate? Nope, Do i care? Not really.
Biggest Hang up for me? The South in 2 days Lost 100+ caps. And on neither of those days did the site show a moderate tilt to the red.

Do i argue with kill points? Nope, Pos's and Pos mods right there, they add up.
but Dreads>Pos's isk wise.


Evil Pookie
Caldari
BURN EDEN
Posted - 2010.05.08 12:22:00 - [268]
 

Originally by: Bobbeh
Think he refers to Burn-Eden... Not sure tho.

I understand its an undertaking, thanks for trying.

Things i will admit

SC/NC has lost Close to the same amount of BS and and such fleets.
SC has Lost countless Sbus (at 250mil each)
NC has Lost Pos's and SC has lost some pos's
SC has Lost Alot more Capitals, NC has lost Some Capitals.
NC has lost 1 Super Cap, SC has lost More than 1.

Now I will say by all right the numbers might come out close to the same. But

I find it hard to believe the NC lost 6000 more ships then the SC
Also
I find it hard to believe that the NC has lost 100 Bil more than the SC.

Can i prove it? Naw probably not.
Do i blame ya? No, not at all.
Do i Think its accurate? Nope, Do i care? Not really.
Biggest Hang up for me? The South in 2 days Lost 100+ caps. And on neither of those days did the site show a moderate tilt to the red.

Do i argue with kill points? Nope, Pos's and Pos mods right there, they add up.
but Dreads>Pos's isk wise.




Confirming that I am in fact the anti-christ mentioned above..... kinda ironic, because I think the christ is a lie....... ugh

arjun
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.05.08 15:25:00 - [269]
 

Edited by: arjun on 08/05/2010 16:06:17
Edited by: arjun on 08/05/2010 15:26:08
if u look at dotlan then the statement of sc having killed 25% more ships than nc can as well be true.
the 2 cap battles in ncs fafour brought 60 and 80 billion + on the killside for nc. the dents are visible in the curves.
in fleetbattles we are more or less even but sc makes more kills in small gang warfare. especially the 100 + lost ships every day in nc staging areas add up. arguments for including burn eden on sc side: they camp nc staging not sc, were not present before april, do damage in fafour of sc. kind of hard to kill them when they have satan in their ranks, we mere mortals. yeah i know that would make us look bad, but whatever. i am for transparency, dont think they kill much sc.

concerning wn and co2. mr powers, there is the possebility, that u were wrong about their involvement from the start? that cant be or can it? i still request the feeding of their mails from april 1. edit: or could u elaborate, what exactly has changed in the last days except maybe some minor artificial standiong issue? and what about ra?

Peter Powers
Gallente
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2010.05.08 17:55:00 - [270]
 

a) WN. and CO2 are blue now
b) Burn Eden is not blue
c) RA is not blue


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