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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:25:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann
Dear capsuleers,

Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.

I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.

The special rules for OOPE were written in 2004 by the then-new community manager. It was an oversight that the contradictory rule went unnoticed for so long. We really don’t have an excuse and I take responsibility and personally apologize for our failure to correct it sooner.

The Community team has read your feedback and we agree that it’s time for a change. We will allow discussions about other games in OOPE though we will set some ground rules in order to keep those discussions constructive. (Shadow will be posting the amended rules shortly.) We know rules and guidelines are never popular but hope you’ll understand the reason for them and work together with us to find a compromise that everyone can live with happily. We’re always interested in hearing your feedback and ask that you use the petition system to register complaints about specific rules and moderation decisions.

Further discussion within the Community team also found everyone in agreement that warnings that were given in relation to this situation prior to this post should be rescinded and we’re in the process of finding and removing those now.

Fly safe,
~P~




Good to see you guys doing what's right.

I'll apologise for kicking up a fuss about it in the CSM forums, and spreading the link around. You guys over there in Reykjavik are awesome, but this rule was just plain wrong, and was having a seriously crappy effect on the forums.

It's awesome to see that something's been done about it, because it was getting biblically stupid.

<3


Menkala
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:28:00 - [32]
 

http://eve-search.com/thread/1107760/page/1#1

Bingo, thanks Lance.

Yeah, this. This was the OOPE rules up until a few days back. Quite plainly allowed to talk about other games... not something that you came up with years ago that just wasn't paid attention to. (As I'm fairly sure rule 17 was).

I really didn't like the lack of info that accompanied this change.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad everythings fixed and won't say any more on the matter after this, but I would still like an explanation about why it was changed in secret in the first place.

yfz3r0
Caldari
Perkone
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:28:00 - [33]
 

Good job CCP.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:30:00 - [34]
 

Got to love people that can admit when they're wrong and actually do something about it.
Thumbs up CCP for this one.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:30:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Menkala
http://eve-search.com/thread/1107760/page/1#1

Bingo, thanks Lance.

Yeah, this. This was the OOPE rules up until a few days back. Quite plainly allowed to talk about other games... not something that you came up with years ago that just wasn't paid attention to. (As I'm fairly sure rule 17 was).

I really didn't like the lack of info that accompanied this change.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad everythings fixed and won't say any more on the matter after this, but I would still like an explanation about why it was changed in secret in the first place.

You have no clue how long it took me to find tha in the first place - I mustve spent the better part of an hour looking for it last week...

Red Raider
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:31:00 - [36]
 

Dust this mean you are going to delete the stupid Dust threads in the assembly hall and elsewhere?

Zions Child
Caldari
The Resident Haunting
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:35:00 - [37]
 

Rejoice! For the War of OOPE Has Ended!!! Government and Order Has Returned to the Land! Water and Food For ALL!!!!

CCP Pann

Posted - 2010.04.05 20:37:00 - [38]
 

Guys, I don't know how else to say it except to own up that there was a domino effect of mistakes that were made, including the "ninja revision", and we're doing our best to set things right now. I don't think it's fair to vilify one or two people for what happened. In fact, that's why it was important to me that I make the apology on behalf of the team and why I'm monitoring this thread now. We screwed up and we're sorry.

While I'm here again, let me address some of the new questions that have popped up.

1. Continued moderation/locking of posts and signatures related to this brouhaha is being done under my orders. We can't move forward if people are still beating that poor, dead horse. If I thought offering a pint of blood or a pound of Oreos would make things better, I would, but it won't. Some folks will just have to be mad until they aren't mad anymore and I don't have a magic "cheesed off" eraser. Boy, would my life be simpler if I did. Wink

2. Mashie: Yes, "gb2wow" is considered trolling and will not be permitted. If you think you have some compelling reason why that shouldn't be considered trolling but instead is actually a constructive post, you're welcome to send in a petition explaining your reasons why.

3. Lance: Even inviting people to join a group/guild/clan/etc. exclusively for EVE players in another game would be against the rules for this forum but you would still be able to invite people in the manner I described with the HKO example. I think that's fair. As I said to Mashie, you're welcome to send in a petition to explain your counterpoint if you have one.

4. Karma: A dedicated DUST 514 site is in development though I don't have an ETA. Until then, DUST 514 discussions can happen here in OOPE or on the official DUST 514 Facebook page.

Menkala
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:37:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Menkala on 05/04/2010 20:41:55
Edited by: Menkala on 05/04/2010 20:41:25
Originally by: Lance Fighter
You have no clue how long it took me to find tha in the first place - I mustve spent the better part of an hour looking for it last week...


Yeaaah im just glad im not going insane like I thought I was after having found it in 5minutes last night, and not been able to track it down in about 45mins tonight. Very Happy

Originally by: CCP Pann
Guys, I don't know how else to say it except to own up that there was a domino effect of mistakes that were made, including the "ninja revision", and we're doing our best to set things right now. I don't think it's fair to vilify one or two people for what happened. In fact, that's why it was important to me that I make the apology on behalf of the team and why I'm monitoring this thread now. We screwed up and we're sorry.

While I'm here again, let me address some of the new questions that have popped up.

1. Continued moderation/locking of posts and signatures related to this brouhaha is being done under my orders. We can't move forward if people are still beating that poor, dead horse. If I thought offering a pint of blood or a pound of Oreos would make things better, I would, but it won't. Some folks will just have to be mad until they aren't mad anymore and I don't have a magic "cheesed off" eraser. Boy, would my life be simpler if I did.


Once again, <3 Pann. And I'll take a pound of Oreos to make things better! Just get my home address from accounts and send them over! Very Happy


Tobias Xiaosen
Total Xenophobia
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:42:00 - [40]
 

I guess that's a fair point for my sig...makes me sad that my pretty sig didn't even last a whole day though. And so many people were using it too! Crying or Very sad O well, at least I didn't pay an excessive amount of isk for it. I at least have a copy saved as a memento.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:43:00 - [41]
 

menkala Laughing

Pann: fair enough, and I/we really appreciate your efforts to fix the mess, no matter whos fault it was

Xen Gin
Silurian Operations
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:57:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Xen Gin on 05/04/2010 20:59:19
Originally by: CCP Pann
Guys, I don't know how else to say it except to own up that there was a domino effect of mistakes that were made, including the "ninja revision", and we're doing our best to set things right now. I don't think it's fair to vilify one or two people for what happened. In fact, that's why it was important to me that I make the apology on behalf of the team and why I'm monitoring this thread now. We screwed up and we're sorry.


Thanks for the apology, but still we don't get an explanation on what started this "domino effect". But I suspect you will just say some fluff about collective failure of community management, and not actually owning up to what we all know about how this started. CCP's failure to correct one of it's own, supporting them via stealth edits, allowing on a whim rules, and going up against the community, has been a PR disaster for CCP and devastating for the OOPE community.

Zedic
Amarr
Universalis Imperium
Tactical Narcotics Team
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:06:00 - [43]
 

Pann,

Thank you so very much for taking the time to look into this and help us with a resolution.

/much lovins

me

Bongo Debbie
Minmatar
In Praise Of Shadows
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:07:00 - [44]
 

Props for dealing with this and explaining everything so nicely.

Now please unban Gladys Pank for trying to cheer up OOPE in this time of darkness. I didn't even break any rules.

Culmen
Caldari
Culmenation
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:18:00 - [45]
 

Mark April 5th as VF-day
Victory Forum
Not just for the posters, but for the mods and the community as a whole!

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:22:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 05/04/2010 21:22:37
Good to see that this has come to a positive conclusion.

Originally by: Zeba
OOPE: Rebellion.

Status: Canceled.

CCP ftw!ugh


Woot

\o/


EDIT:

Originally by: Culmen
Mark April 5th as VF-day
Victory Forum
Not just for the posters, but for the mods and the community as a whole!




Slade

Red Raider
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:33:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann

4. Karma: A dedicated DUST 514 site is in development though I don't have an ETA. Until then, DUST 514 discussions can happen here in OOPE or on the official DUST 514 Facebook page.


Originally by: Red Raider
Does this mean you are going to delete the stupid Dust threads in the assembly hall and elsewhere?


This is like going to the Ghost Recon forum to complain about HAWX. Just because the games share some things doesn't make it an exception to the rule. They are completely different types of games and I don't understand how a massive emo rage that breaks the rules is allowed to persist.

Move it over here where they can whine all day and it not clog up the cogs of EVE. The Assembly Hall and FIAD has enough problems without that drivel being posted in it regularly.

Paknac Queltel
Baden's Army
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:49:00 - [48]
 

Posting in the official OOPE community/CCP wuv thread, woo!

My apologies to the mods who had to put up with us. I sowwee.

Karma
Vortex Incorporated
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:53:00 - [49]
 

oh.. and

First rule of OOPE: we accept your revised Rule #5... for now.


Abrazzar
Posted - 2010.04.05 21:54:00 - [50]
 

Good to see that CCP is quick in correcting mistakes instead of glancing them over with gratuitous application of the banhammer. I'd say forum rule changes would be considered 'essential change' in the future and should trigger a devblog prior implementation to allow a discussion about the sense and nonsense of the changes in the feedback thread. Wink

Also, Yay!

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2010.04.05 22:05:00 - [51]
 

Good to see CCP still listen to their playerbase, it's one of the reasons I still play EVE after so long... but I was worried there for a minute Very Happy

Tobias Xiaosen
Total Xenophobia
Posted - 2010.04.05 22:18:00 - [52]
 

Gotta admit, i've never had this much fun on a forum before. OOPE:Rebellion was pretty epic in that respect YARRRR!!

So for that, GG CCP. GG

Natasja Podinski
Posted - 2010.04.05 22:27:00 - [53]
 

so maybe now we can have a chat about sigs!?

cant belive some noobassadmin nerfed my sig because it was 47 pixels too wide! seriously!

get real!

it was even smaller than 24kb!

Barakkus
Posted - 2010.04.05 22:30:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Xen Gin
Edited by: Xen Gin on 05/04/2010 20:59:19
Originally by: CCP Pann
Guys, I don't know how else to say it except to own up that there was a domino effect of mistakes that were made, including the "ninja revision", and we're doing our best to set things right now. I don't think it's fair to vilify one or two people for what happened. In fact, that's why it was important to me that I make the apology on behalf of the team and why I'm monitoring this thread now. We screwed up and we're sorry.


Thanks for the apology, but still we don't get an explanation on what started this "domino effect". But I suspect you will just say some fluff about collective failure of community management, and not actually owning up to what we all know about how this started. CCP's failure to correct one of it's own, supporting them via stealth edits, allowing on a whim rules, and going up against the community, has been a PR disaster for CCP and devastating for the OOPE community.


Most likely they were trying to get some consistency with things, as needs to be done with whatever business you happen to be running. Unfortunately, it kinda backfired with some decisions that "looked good at the time" but were actually counter productive to maintaining a happy medium.

I wouldn't call it a PR disaster since the number of people that read the forums is pretty miniscule to the actual number of players playing. You'd be surprised but on average only about 5-10% of players of the majority of mmos out there care enough to read the forums of said games, and even less bother to post. Considering this is the off topic discussion, I would venture a guess that less than 1% of the player base even looks at this board.

Karma
Vortex Incorporated
Posted - 2010.04.05 22:33:00 - [55]
 

oh... one request.

could you unlock a few of the more productive topics? As an example, the mass effect 2 topic.

Perhaps prune the last page and a half, as those posts are only about the new rule(tm).
Up until that point, it was a *very* productive and good thread, pretty much devoid of trolls and spam.

right... now I shall go hibernate, for real. <lurkmoad>

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.05 22:45:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Lance Fighter on 05/04/2010 22:59:34
Not incredibly important, sorry

CCP Pann

Posted - 2010.04.05 22:51:00 - [57]
 

Karma: I have advised the team to look over threads that were locked in the last three days and unlock the productive ones, tidying up a bit as necessary. It may be tomorrow before you start seeing progress there so please bear with us a bit longer and trust that it will happen.

Lance: Please file a petition if you disagree with moderation decisions. The rule about not discussing those matters on the forum still stands.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.05 22:59:00 - [58]
 

Would it be possible to allow the 'report' button to work on locked threads?

It seems rather roundabout to require someone to goto to the support section, log in (again -.- ) create a petition with links and all..

Anyway, its largely unimportant, feel free to ignore me really

Iva Posavec
Takhar Matari Militia
Posted - 2010.04.05 23:03:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Iva Posavec on 05/04/2010 23:04:34

Hugs and kisses to all at CCP, especially the ladies. Seriously though good going although the OOPE forums has been a mess the last few days I am glad things are resolved as far as gaming discussions go. Now the 5 minute timers and repeated log-in issues to fix. Very Happy

edit: Also a petition that I made regarding the issue was replied to promptly so another thumbs up to the moderation team.

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.04.05 23:38:00 - [60]
 

I applaud CCP Pann on an excellent post and excellent decisions.

What is being done so this does not happen again? Hey I certainly love showing how foolish and ridiculous mods are and being proven right, but I would think you should care about your own reputation.

Oh yeah and enough with the stealth editing and deleting of posts to cover your tracks. We have eve-search and frankly we play EVE and thus we are much, much craftier than you. We caught you on ghost-training, we caught you on this and we will catch you again YARRRR!!Twisted Evil


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