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blankseplocked OOPE rules revision
 
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CCP Pann

Posted - 2010.04.05 19:47:00 - [1]
 

Dear capsuleers,

Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.

I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.

The special rules for OOPE were written in 2004 by the then-new community manager. It was an oversight that the contradictory rule went unnoticed for so long. We really don’t have an excuse and I take responsibility and personally apologize for our failure to correct it sooner.

The Community team has read your feedback and we agree that it’s time for a change. We will allow discussions about other games in OOPE though we will set some ground rules in order to keep those discussions constructive. (Shadow will be posting the amended rules shortly.) We know rules and guidelines are never popular but hope you’ll understand the reason for them and work together with us to find a compromise that everyone can live with happily. We’re always interested in hearing your feedback and ask that you use the petition system to register complaints about specific rules and moderation decisions.

Further discussion within the Community team also found everyone in agreement that warnings that were given in relation to this situation prior to this post should be rescinded and we’re in the process of finding and removing those now.

Fly safe,
~P~


James Tritanius
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:48:00 - [2]
 

You just restored my faith in CCP! Yay.

Tobias Xiaosen
Total Xenophobia
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:49:00 - [3]
 

FLAWLESS VICTORY!

Wuff Wuff
The Oliver Postgate Appreciation Club
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:51:00 - [4]
 

I tip my hat to you CCP.

- Wuffles

Kuar Z'thain
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:51:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Kuar Z''thain on 05/04/2010 19:59:34
Edited by: Kuar Z''thain on 05/04/2010 19:56:05
You would think CCP would learn to keep the community informed about changes, NO MATTER HOW MINOR CCP PERCEIVES THE CHANGES TO BE.

edit: guess I'll go play nice now.

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:52:00 - [6]
 

OOPE: Rebellion.

Status: Canceled.

CCP ftw!ugh

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:52:00 - [7]
 

we loves you Pann ugh

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:52:00 - [8]
 

I'm glad you came to your senses in the end. After all it didn't make any sense why you all of a sudden changed rule 5 in OOPE when even the CCP developers here happily posted about other games (CCP Atrophos regarding Shattered Crystal for example).

Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:53:00 - [9]
 

Well done.

Last Wolf
Umbra Wing
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:53:00 - [10]
 

CCP by far the best gaming company EVER.

Can I get a job with you?

Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:55:00 - [11]
 

Glad you folks saw reason.

Blood Ghost
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:55:00 - [12]
 

Excellent, glad to hear it Very Happy

Karma
Vortex Incorporated
Posted - 2010.04.05 19:58:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Karma on 05/04/2010 20:00:49
Excellent news.

Apologies all around to anyone in the GM team I may have offended during this debacle.
you were just doing your job and you got a lot of heat for it.

to the person who decided to suddenly reinforce this new/old rule after this long a time... hope you've realized that arbitrary and sweeping changes are never a good idea.
a status quo can be a good thing, even when its supposedly against the rules ;)

** goes back into hibernation/lurkmode **

Zofran
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:00:00 - [14]
 

See, wasnt too hard to explain and be a bit more transparent to your customers, well done and thanks. Let the other parts of CCP learn to do this too and things should start to look up.

Sera Ryskin
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:00:00 - [15]
 

A bit late, but at least you got it right in the end. However, I would hope that you consider two things in planning any (possible) future rules changes:


1) The method involved here was just silly. Stealth-editing the rules thread with absolutely no explanation or apparent reason was guaranteed to provoke a hostile reaction. Next time, just announce the changes along with the reasons for those changes.


2) The response to the initial community outrage was severely lacking. Instead of just mass-locking when we first brought it up, a simple "we are aware of the disagreement and will be making an announcement shortly" might have spared us all the mess of the current OOPE.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:00:00 - [16]
 

Clarification on 'recruitment of groups for other games will not be permitted'

Say I start up a corpguild in wow, that means I cant come here and ask people to join it?

Does that extend to multiplayer games like Sins of solar empire - can i come here to 'recruit' people to play a game with?

Luka Cino
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:00:00 - [17]
 

I think the Eve-Community just leveled 'Threadnoughting' to Lvl 5.

Gratz guys. Now back to some serious trolling.

Julius Rigel
Sub-warp Racing Venture
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:02:00 - [18]
 

HTFU CCP. You stick to your guns or you're going to be stepped on like soggy leaves.

Consider this an official complaint about this rule change, or repeal, or whatever the **** this is.

Evil or Very Mad

CCP Pann

Posted - 2010.04.05 20:04:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Lance Fighter
Clarification on 'recruitment of groups for other games will not be permitted'

Say I start up a corpguild in wow, that means I cant come here and ask people to join it?

Does that extend to multiplayer games like Sins of solar empire - can i come here to 'recruit' people to play a game with?


Yes, that means you cannot recruit people for your groups/guilds/clans/etc. for other games on this forum. Posts like that really do belong on the forums for those specific games.

However, what you can do is say, "I just started playing Hello Kitty Online. Contact me if you want to group up."

I think that's a fair balance between the two, don't you?

Though we want people to be able to talk about the other games that are part of their lives, this shouldn't turn into a mass recruiting/advertising forum for those games. See the difference?

Sera Ryskin
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:07:00 - [20]
 

One clarification that I would like to request: you restrict discussion of non-EVE games to OOPE, but what about mentioning other games in the context of a discussion about EVE? For example:


"EVE could really use the ability for custom paint colors. It really wouldn't be a lag issue, if done like in the Homeworld games where pre-set areas of each model can be assigned colors. All you'd have to send to the client is a single RGB value and an area number (for example: {1, 255, 125, 30}), and the feature could even be disabled in the preferences for people who really don't like it."


This is clearly related to EVE, not otherwise objectionable (trolling, etc), and could very plausibly be a constructive comment in a non-OOPE section of the forum. But according to a strict interpretation of the new rules, this suggestion would not be allowed.

Karma
Vortex Incorporated
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:09:00 - [21]
 

uhm.. one small clarification..

Dust 514, where does talk of it go? OOPE, or General Discussion?
It is both technically EVE-related and technically not.
further, would recruitment posts for Dust be allowed?

May be moot questions, as I'm presuming you'll make a separate subforum for it when it gets released.

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:11:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann
Originally by: Lance Fighter
Clarification on 'recruitment of groups for other games will not be permitted'

Say I start up a corpguild in wow, that means I cant come here and ask people to join it?

Does that extend to multiplayer games like Sins of solar empire - can i come here to 'recruit' people to play a game with?


Yes, that means you cannot recruit people for your groups/guilds/clans/etc. for other games on this forum. Posts like that really do belong on the forums for those specific games.

However, what you can do is say, "I just started playing Hello Kitty Online. Contact me if you want to group up."

I think that's a fair balance between the two, don't you?

Though we want people to be able to talk about the other games that are part of their lives, this shouldn't turn into a mass recruiting/advertising forum for those games. See the difference?

So its basically allowed unless you explicitly say 'join my eve guild'?
>.>
seems a bit sketchy, but lets ride with it for a bit until we screw around with the rules some more

CCP Pann

Posted - 2010.04.05 20:12:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Sera Ryskin
One clarification that I would like to request: you restrict discussion of non-EVE games to OOPE, but what about mentioning other games in the context of a discussion about EVE?


This actually came up during our discussions about the revising of the rules. You are correct that comparisons are often a necessary part of explaining your point of view and there is a distinct difference between that and discussing another game. If a comparison post branches off into a discussion about the other game, moderators should guide the discussion back on topic and invite those who want to continue to discuss the other game to do so in the OOPE channel.


Myxx
Atropos Group
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:13:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann
Originally by: Sera Ryskin
One clarification that I would like to request: you restrict discussion of non-EVE games to OOPE, but what about mentioning other games in the context of a discussion about EVE?


This actually came up during our discussions about the revising of the rules. You are correct that comparisons are often a necessary part of explaining your point of view and there is a distinct difference between that and discussing another game. If a comparison post branches off into a discussion about the other game, moderators should guide the discussion back on topic and invite those who want to continue to discuss the other game to do so in the OOPE channel.



http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1296542&page=2#31

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:15:00 - [25]
 

Is "gb2wow" considered recruitment or just trolling?

Tobias Xiaosen
Total Xenophobia
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:16:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Tobias Xiaosen on 05/04/2010 20:24:35
Originally by: Myxx

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1296542&page=2#31


Ya I'd like some "clarification" on this, mostly because now I want to keep my sig which wasn't breaking any rules, but dont want to add it back to my settings without it getting deleted again. There was nothing wrong with the sig

Menkala
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:20:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Menkala on 05/04/2010 20:21:34
Originally by: CCP Pann

Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.

I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.



Firstly, much <3 towards Pann. Great to have you back.

Secondly.... I just... my issue wasn't quite addressed here. In the original OOPE rules thread, it stated that we were allowed to talk about other games. I know this, because I looked it up on eve-search (and for the life of me I can't find it again) before being stealth-edited just before all this palava began. My issue was more with the stealth nerf... rules were changed without news or announcement and a load of topics got turned from legit to non-legit in a matter of minutes.

Thats what bugged me, more than anything

And now I think I'm going insane because I can't find it on eve-search to relink it.

MickeyKnox
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:21:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: CCP Pann

The special rules for OOPE were written in 2004 by the then-new community manager. It was an oversight that the contradictory rule went unnoticed for so long.



Didn't it get ninja-edited just a few days ago?

Lance Fighter
Amarr
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:22:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Menkala
Edited by: Menkala on 05/04/2010 20:21:34
Originally by: CCP Pann

Recently, it came to our attention that there were conflicting rules about whether or not it was permissible to discuss other games in this section of the EVE forum.

I would like to explain the reason why the rule existed in the first place. As the original EVE community manager, it fell to me to create the forum rules back in the day. Though we did have volunteer forum moderators then, I carried the bulk of responsibility for moderating and it was simply easier to have people to post about other games on the official forums for those games.



Firstly, much <3 towards Pann. Great to have you back.

Secondly.... I just... my issue wasn't quite addressed here. In the original OOPE rules thread, it stated that we were allowed to talk about other games. I know this, because I looked it up on eve-search (and for the life of me I can't find it again) before being stealth-edited just before all this palava began. My issue was more with the stealth nerf... rules were changed without news or announcement and a load of topics got turned from legit to non-legit in a matter of minutes.

Thats what bugged me, more than anything

And now I think I'm going insane because I can't find it on eve-search to relink it.

http://eve-search.com/thread/1107760/page/1#1

Cristopher Dante
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:25:00 - [30]
 

-1 Internets for 5 minute timer and new verification process
-1 Internets for destruction of M&D subforum
-2 Internets for initial rule debacle
-1 Internets for delay of proper response
+3 Internets for saving the day.
+2 Internets for rescinding the bans/warnings.


TOTAL: +0 INTERNETZ.

VIVA LES POTATOES.



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