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blankseplocked Insanely bad mission and poor handling by GM's
 
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Darth Matt
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
Posted - 2010.03.31 03:51:00 - [1]
 

Ok,
So I was sitting running a few level 4 missions for the heck of it, and the command agent offers me some goofy mining mission named Mother Lode. It says I have to mine 2800 units of some crap called polygypsum. So I read the obectives which are copied and pasted here to decide if I should do the mission.I accepted it btw: - a direct copy and paste from the mission:
Mother Lode Objectives
the following objectives must be completed to finish the mission:
Bring Item Objective
Item
2800 units of Polygypsum (44800.0 m³)
Objective
Mine 2,800 units of Polygypsum for your agent.
Rewards
The following rewards will be yours if you complete this mission:
Mining Polygypsum
Polygypsum is widely considered worthless because of the dangers associated with storing and refining it. As a result, you won't find this ore on the market. In fact, for this reason, most sensor manufacturers don't even bother putting it as a unique entry in the computers when they install standard ship scanners.
If you're having trouble finding the correct ore at the mission location, you can right-click the "Polygypsum" icon in your mission's Journal entry and select "Add to Overview."

So, unless I am stupid- they are asking for 2800 units of Polygypsum.
Well I get about 3700 units and try to complete the mission. The agent said I did not complete the objectives. Since I needed to move on, I petitioned this as it is a clear bug. I have exactly what the mission asks for.
GM's response removed.Applebabe
I made it crystal clear that the mission objectives said 2800- not 20,000 or 30,000 or whatever. The follow up from another GM was well written and of course not thought out at all:
GM's response removed.Applebabe
I assume that the GM’s go to the store and in their minds expect to pay 200 dollars for a 3 dollar cup of Latte. Also if a car has a price tag of 20,000 dollars on the window, that must mean 100,000 dollars.
Or better yet- if their boss says to stay until 6pm, they mean stay for two weeks without going home and if they do they are fired.
Be warned- the mission is a lie, what the objectives are called out for are lies- and the GM’s do not read petetions, they copy and paste empty crap that keeps them from having to actually think.
I will close the mission and lose faction since I only mined about 1000 units more than they clearly called out. CCP should screen GM’s much closer.
GM motto- customer is never correct…

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:10:00 - [2]
 

First: do not quote GM correspondence on the forums. Your post will get edited (if the moderators woke up on the right side of bed), or deleted, or (if the moderators woke up on the wrong side of bed) you could get a forum ban for a little while, to help you cool off.

Second: mining missions only ever have exactly enough ore for you to mine.

Third: Reviewing the mission on one of the various guides out there, this jumps out at me: "Acquire 2800 units of Polygypsum (44800 m3)". Note that 1 unit of Polygypsum is larger than 1m3.

If you can link to a screen shot showing that you have 2800 units of Polygypsum (ie: the number on the bottom right of the item icon shows 2.8k), I'll believe you have a problem. If however the number shows 175, you'll just have to go back and mine the rest.

But please, don't quote GM correspondence. Paraphrase it if you must, but don't be an ass about it.

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:12:00 - [3]
 

There is only ever enough mission ore to complete the mission. 3700 m3 is not 2800 units of the mission ore.

Quote:
2800 units of Polygypsum (44800.0 m³)

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:21:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Zartrader on 31/03/2010 04:26:45



Did you actually MINE it or buy it? How did you get more than possible from the mission if you did not buy it? Are you mixing units with volume?

For a long post you miss out a lot of crucial detail.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:29:00 - [5]
 

Looks like the GM's probably either working blind (i.e. isn't equipped with the proper GM tools) or have limited view access to player's inventory to confirm ... or they could be ... *cough* .. let's not get into that.

My just recent experience with the GMs about something that's fairly simple, turned into something that truly tested my patience due to their asinine replies - almost as if they spent 2 sec reading it, 0 second to digest its meaning and 1 sec to copy-paste some unrelated words. I almost killed a kitty when back then.

As for the OP, check your overview. If the pertaining roid's still there, mission ain't done.
Don't mistake 'Qty' with 'm3'.

Mhonfry
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:34:00 - [6]
 

You also need to have the units in 1 clump. eg if its spread in several the agent will try to complete with the biggest amount which may be too small.

Polygypsum is 16 mtr/unit - ie quite large so you need to stack the ore once have it back in the dock.

44800 mtrs, you wont get this in one load of a hulk etc and some mission items are mission specific, ie not any old item of the same/similar name will do. Beware buying some mission items.

Darth Matt
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:36:00 - [7]
 

I have 3800 units and they are 16 m3 each. I mined them with an alt.

I know units from m3.

I have more than the mission calls out for

I know more than the GM's do- they did not care about the problem, and I cannot conceive why I would be banned for enlightening the Eve communnity on their excellent handling of this situation. As well as letting people know that this mission is complete garbage and terribly written.

For the guy who thinks that the mission has only enough ore to satisfy the mission- I can show you that the mission has about triple the polygypsum needed, you canot buy this on the market. Or I would buy it to finish the mission...duh

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:40:00 - [8]
 

The problem here is that you haven't triggered the objective flag. I'm assuming you've mined this either side of dt. Until you mine the full amount in one go the completion flag won't trigger.

That's how mining missions work.

If you are struggling with a GM you can request escalation. This will send it to a more senior GM. However, you should note that the GM answered the question correctly but did not elaborate on it.

Darth Matt
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:44:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Professor Leech
The problem here is that you haven't triggered the objective flag. I'm assuming you've mined this either side of dt. Until you mine the full amount in one go the completion flag won't trigger.

That's how mining missions work.

If you are struggling with a GM you can request escalation. This will send it to a more senior GM. However, you should note that the GM answered the question correctly but did not elaborate on it.


so if a mission asks for 2800 units of something and you mine it plus extra- it should not be complete?

if a mission asks you to silence the informant, and you kill him, it should not be complete unless you do it just right- or in the same sitting? If you start it and finish before or after downtime it is not considered complete?

I am not getting the logic.

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:50:00 - [10]
 

I am trying to help you troubleshoot this.

Did you mine the entire deposit until it was gone?

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:53:00 - [11]
 

Mining missions don't give extra for the special ore unless you pass over a DT with it half-completed. There's no reason to give the player extra so they could blitz the next one - so DT is the only plausible way of doing it.

As I'd mentioned before, if you still see polygpsum roids at the site, mine it all to complete the trigger.

Kordoc
Death Metal Rooster
Posted - 2010.03.31 04:59:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Darth Matt
I have 3800 units and they are 16 m3 each. I mined them with an alt.




DING DING DING.

There is your problem.

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2010.03.31 05:01:00 - [13]
 

Quite right I missed that, but probably because it was hard to sift through all the gibberish.

Darth Matt
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
Posted - 2010.03.31 05:01:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Darth Matt on 31/03/2010 05:02:44
I started the mission...was falling asleep and restarted the next day. once I blew past the objective amount- I tried to complete the mission.

To mine every drop of ore to complete is plain sillyness- hence why I posted what the GM's wrote- they did not care that I completed the objective, they merely copied and pasted the standard response.

looky- I got edited...oh well...guess they dont want their pals being picked on...oh well

this hopefully will help other people whom accidentally take this terrible mission. Dont do it...just grind worlds collide and forget trying something new-


What does it matter if I mined with an alt- I was 1000 meters away in a bustard ahuling the stupid ore...i dont fly mining ships or train mining skills...

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.03.31 05:03:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Darth Matt
I know more than the GM's do- they did not care about the problem, and I cannot conceive why I would be banned for «quoting GM correspondence on the forums»


You do not know more than the GMs in this instance. It is against forum rules to quote GM correspondence on the forums.

Quote:
For the guy who thinks that the mission has only enough ore to satisfy the mission- I can show you that the mission has about triple the polygypsum needed, you canot buy this on the market. Or I would buy it to finish the mission...duh


The only time I've had ore left over from a mining mission was when I'd started too close to downtime and the asteroid had respawned when I came back (due to the mission being respawned after downtime).

If you can get a survey scanner reporting that there is more ore than required, please post a bug report for that mission.

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2010.03.31 05:05:00 - [16]
 

You actually need to mine the mission with your mission character or the flag won't pop.

Given your responses in the thread, and the fact that you are ignoring what is being said, it is clear that the insanely difficult person is the op. I feel sorry for the GMs having to deal with members of the public like yourself.

Darth Matt
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
Posted - 2010.03.31 05:07:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Professor Leech
Quite right I missed that, but probably because it was hard to sift through all the gibberish.


Gibberish?

could have been 2 lines I guess-
1. I mined with my gang which were all present in the belt like every other mission I have ever done ya noob more than the amount on the mission objectives- all my accounts.
2. When someone is too stupid to come up with a logical reason for CCP's mistakes- they blame the victim...cause they are noobs...hence you, since this is confusing gibberish- I figured I would clarify.

Sturmwolke
Posted - 2010.03.31 05:15:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Darth Matt
To mine every drop of ore to complete is plain sillyness- hence why I posted what the GM's wrote- they did not care that I completed the objective, they merely copied and pasted the standard response.


Not really. All the missions are written with specific trigggers and as long as it's not triggered, a DT will reset the mission.
Whatever you did before the DT isn't counted. Mission item numbers/quantity mean nothing. As long as the trigger is still alive you will never complete the mission. You failed to recognize this.

Keep in mind, GMs handle hundreds of petition at one go, so unless that guy was an experienced L1, his reply was still within reasons. It's only the clear daylight asinine replies makes me mad.

Professor Leech
Transmetropolitan
Posted - 2010.03.31 05:34:00 - [19]
 

You could have actually just written a brief description outlining the issue and asked if it was a bug. You instead went off on tangents and are spending your time being abusive.

If you took the time to carefully explain to the GM you could have escalated it easily.

Of course your op is gibberish as all you did was rant a wall of text.

We can help with mechanics and solve problems, not GMs.

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.03.31 05:35:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Mara Rinn on 31/03/2010 05:41:03
edit: stupid forums. Have to wait five minute to post, but cookie expires in 10?

Originally by: Darth Matt
[I started the mission...was falling asleep and restarted the next day. once I blew past the objective amount- I tried to complete the mission.


The mission would not have been marked as completed in your journal.

Combat missions reset after downtime, so do mining missions. The completion trigger for combat missions is killing that last ship, or killing the named ship. The same thing happens for mining missions. Killing the last unit of ore is exactly the same thing as popping the asteroid.

Quote:
looky- I got edited...oh well...guess they dont want their pals being picked on...oh well


That's right. The forum rules state that you are not allowed to quote GM correspondence.

Quote:
this hopefully will help other people whom accidentally take this terrible mission.


Hopefully people will learn that mining missions are the same as combat missions - you have to start them from the beginning and keep going till you reach the end. Any progress you made before downtime is irrelevant if you continue the mission after downtime.

Quote:
What does it matter if I mined with an alt


It doesn't matter. I routinely accept mining missions with an alt, bookmark the site, contract the bookmark to my main, then mine the site out with Orca + 2 Hulks, return to station, contract ore back to the alt, log in the alt, complete the mission.

The only mistake you've made (apart from quoting GM correspondence) was confusing the "mission completion" and "mission objectives completed" concepts. For mining missions, "mission objectives completed" is true when you pop all the asteroids, "mission completion" is when you talk to the agent after having completed the objectives, with all the required materials in either your cargo hold or your hangar (but not both).

All mining missions work this way, so take it as a lesson for the future :)

Yes, it's a frustrating lesson to learn (I still have a thousand-odd units of the mission-specific gneiss sitting in my hangar from a previous mining mission), but at least you know now!

HilsterAUS
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.31 07:16:00 - [21]
 

It appears as though the mission must have reset after downtime.

So, if the mission asked for 2800 units and you mined 2500 before DT and then another 2500 after DT, you would have 5000 units, but you still wouldn't have met the requirements.

You need to mine all the units available (which will be 2800) in one period (dt to dt)and then your journal will tick over to objective completed.

If that fails, then you will need GM support.

GL with your quest

Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
Posted - 2010.03.31 08:03:00 - [22]
 

I have done that mission many times on my industry alt.

You must dig all of the mineral or it won't complete. All of the mineral also happens to coincide with how much the agent wants.

Zartrader
Posted - 2010.03.31 09:22:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Zartrader on 31/03/2010 09:26:00

Originally by: Darth Matt
Originally by: Professor Leech
Quite right I missed that, but probably because it was hard to sift through all the gibberish.


Gibberish?

could have been 2 lines I guess-
1. I mined with my gang which were all present in the belt like every other mission I have ever done ya noob more than the amount on the mission objectives- all my accounts.
2. When someone is too stupid to come up with a logical reason for CCP's mistakes- they blame the victim...cause they are noobs...hence you, since this is confusing gibberish- I figured I would clarify.


You missed some very important points. Mining in alt and mining accross DT. You did not mention if you had bought it or not. So yes it was gibberish. Less ranting and more precision would have nailed it a lot quicker. Insulting people who are trying to help you is very smart.

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.03.31 10:40:00 - [24]
 

alt issue is irrelevant. as said, mission objective is to mine out all polygipsium in mission area AND have 2800 units of polygipsium in cargo/station. while ore could come from mission, it doesn't have to, but asteroids in mission MUST be mined out completely, regardless of how it's used.

Derelicht
Posted - 2010.03.31 11:09:00 - [25]
 

Never question anything.

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
Posted - 2010.03.31 11:30:00 - [26]
 

Quote:
I started the mission...was falling asleep and restarted the next day. once I blew past the objective amount- I tried to complete the mission.


If you have a 'Kill All' mission but only have time to kill half the rats before going to bed. The next evening (when the mission has been reset) and you go back, do you.....

A) Kill ALL the rats to complete the mission>

B) Kill half the rats (because you killed half yesterday) then abuse the GMs on the forums because you couldnt turn in the mission?


Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.03.31 11:34:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Derelicht
Never question anything.
Funny that, since questioning the OP was what brought some light on what he had done wrong in this instance.

Darth Matt
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
Posted - 2010.03.31 12:04:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Darth Matt on 31/03/2010 12:11:42
Actually a few people who are not only cool and not condescending- but have some interesting response.Wow!

For the folks who are trying to compare to combat missions- Apples and oranges folks.

Would you like a list of the "Combat missions" that you can blitz in about 2 minutes?(or less)

If it says get the documents from "x" you can blitz up to that and get it- others say to get some spiced wine, and you fly in and them out and give them some spiced wine you have sitting in your hanger for 3 years ago. Some say eleminate all enemies. Those cause you to eleminate all enemies.

I understand what they want now- thanks for the info from the handful of people who read the actual problem I have with the post. That it is called a get item mission, and when I got the items and needed to move on- GM's just said-"mission not complete, have a nice day"

And for the uber miners who kept saying bingo- you didnt mine it with your main- i enjoy that all the other folks whom have finished it with alts posted here and showed these noobs how funny they sound...thanks to the few folks at the end who have a brain- to the others, ...fill in blank...
Oh, and to the gent who said insulting people isnt smart, right after he posted I was wrong for using and alt...first off- If i insult you enough, you might come to 0.0 to kill me, which is awesome, second- The interweb isnt real, nor is this game- so its only a virtual insult- so you should virtually not care...heheheh

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2010.03.31 12:22:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Darth Matt
For the folks who are trying to compare to combat missions- Apples and oranges folks.

Would you like a list of the "Combat missions" that you can blitz in about 2 minutes?(or less)
Actually, that's just it: it's apples and pomaceous fruit – they both work the same way. You do the mission until you trigger the completion flag, and then you turn it in. It's that trigger condition that determines if and how something can be blitzed or not, and the mission type is of roughly zero relevance.

Maihes Sehim
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
Posted - 2010.03.31 13:51:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Darth Matt

Oh, and to the gent who said insulting people isnt smart, right after he posted I was wrong for using and alt...first off- If i insult you enough, you might come to 0.0 to kill me, which is awesome, second- The interweb isnt real, nor is this game- so its only a virtual insult- so you should virtually not care...heheheh


How does the fact that it is a game on the internet make an insult not real?

I love when people like you are complete as.holes to others just because it is the internet and you don't see people face to face.

The is no difference in social aspects of a video game on the internet over real life other then if you do something stupid irl the person can beat the snot out of you if they have a mind to.


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