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Rudazara
Posted - 2010.03.30 07:27:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Rudazara on 30/03/2010 09:13:36
SO I'm sure by now everyone has seen the movie "Galaxy Quest" featuring Tim Allen & Sigourney Weaver. The most fanstastic part of that movie is when they are piloting their ship through a field of magnetically charged mines begin battering into the ship, unelss they are skillfully navigated.

I thought to myself, "why is there not mines in space in EVE?" Picture a mine field placed by a faction as protection, or left over from a previous war, that choose no sides, set up in a formation where the correct angle will allow you to navigate through, or require you to be at a certain constant velocity (magnetic). Picture it like a cloud in the distance that might just make a mess if your too close, or might be faster to navigate through if your a half decent pilot.

The purchasing of a mine field should be set up so your not choosing one at a time, but you can buy packages of 1,000 to 1,000,000 or more at a time (priced accordingly). Concord shouldn't allow mine field placement anywhere near stargates or starbases, but rather in 0.0 spaces, low level security spaces, and areas distant from common traffic . . . .or right on areas with traffic. More or less a Mercenary or Pirating tool.

Battlecruisers or larger would be the only Ships capable of setting up a mine field with a tractor beam like tool that pulls multiple mines from the cargo hold and places them in their strategic location where they await activation by the ships pilot in an easy "set it and forget it" way when the mines have been placed. Obviously the ship would need to be at a decent distance from the mines before activation . . . or it just wouldnt be too pretty. Once the mines are set, passer-by's will see the formation as a named field, not as individual mines, preventing your overview from having millions of items. Mines will only show up on your Radar individually if you are within its magnetic range, making the purchace of magnetic mines more efficient. Regular mines are placed in a closer formation since they only activate when hit.

Pro's -
- New skills to train
- Garunteed sales (They are mines!)
- Better protection from attack during wartime or from other assault
- The possibility of a sport being created

(Mine Winding - The piloting of a ship through a minefield to attain the fastest start to finish time. I know I would watch in hopes of seeing some MAJOR explosions)

- They cannot be destroyed unless you are at a certain "too close for comfort range"
- Would require target ships to take their chances, or take a while longer to go around
- Only certain ships with mine field destruction weapons could take them out (Like a doomsday bomb, or something of the sort)
- New added feature for missions
. . . The list could go on forever

Con's
- Require a lot of setup time for large number fields (unless multiple ships work together)
- Concord has the ability to erradicate a minefield, or deactivate them at any time
- An EMP emitter attached to a ship can prevent the mines from detonating, however, the emitter would require most of the power from your ship.
- Requires a specially fitted ship to assemble a mine field
- Can only be set up in certain areas
- Destroyers should posess the highest advantage against mine fields due to speed, and their ability to target mines farther than other ships (the ships name says it all)
- Increased risk of loosing ship
- Could potentially be set up in a location that could interfere with miners ;-)
- PVP can become much harder but much more interesting
- Corps can be extremely well protected against enemy attacks
. . . The list could continue also

Overall the idea is immense in design, but could create a new level of gaming that requires better piloting skill, allows sport, and introduces something never added to a game before; Space Mine Fields





CommanderData211
Posted - 2010.03.30 07:50:00 - [2]
 

I am all for this. It has been brought up many times and been shot down due to issues involving lag. But why not make it like some sort of area affect damage, like damaging clouds? It would just do area of effect damage to all ships within it's perimeter until the mines run out. then you could put up another field, or add mines to an existing one. Makes sense to me :)

Rudazara
Posted - 2010.03.30 08:35:00 - [3]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1293463

Developments and suggestions are welcomed, as I am working to develop a serious proposal. This proposal should be based on the opinions of negative effect and positive contruction. I am working to hear all theories and ideas to improve upon the proposal to actually make Mines work in EvE.

Rudazara
Posted - 2010.03.30 09:14:00 - [4]
 

Additional Ideas & Elaboration:
Minefields being set up in a star map like probing, but on a smaller scale. Maybe even grouping them in bunches so one block of 5 mines (4 on the corners, one in the middle) consists of one "item."

ECM modules have the capability to deflect mine attacks depending on the Magnetromic strength, but tier 2 mines may require a higher Magnetromic Strenth to disrupt tracking.

When carried onboard, your ships damage resistance is decreased.

Requires a module specific for setting up mines, which would require high skill amounts in Electronics, Achoring, etc.

Can be destroyed by smartbombs if mines are not invulnerable***

Could be left in space indefinitly as long as they are not activated, or destroyed by concord.

Certain Missions such as 'Race through the poisonous cloud' can become 'race through the minefields' and can appear in level 3 - 4 - or 5 missions.

Can make it harder to kill drone infestations***

Targeting Range: 10k -

Giving aggression for targeted player on deployer (Deployer does not have aggression unless attacked by targeted player).

Activation Range: 8k -
Speed: 350m/s
Thermal Damage: 300 HP (Very undecided obviously)

Idea: Allows for warpout with mines following for up to 9au (bubble trapped mines)
You can get aggression on the deployer before the mines are even activated on you.


Ore-Guard Mines - Protect mining operations (as fleets are safeguarded also) and containers.

Targeting Range: 14k
Active Range: 10k
Only able to be fitted to Mining Barges with a lower powered module than the combat mine module which will take up a lot of power & CPU.

Can only be activated if the player mining who deployed them has aggression on the "can-flipper" for example, similar to drones.

Counter-Measure Mines: Will disrupt missles or bombs mid-flight within range, take the targeting for that missile & destroy it along with the mine itself. Will disrupt to destroy any missile or bomb (friendly or foe). Effective but mostly useful for evasive maneuvers.

War Mines:

Targeting Range: 6k
Active Range: 5k
Damage: 100HP (very undecided)
Speed: 500m/s

Used in larger masses to cover areas, power in numbers, but not as devastating as combat mines. Smaller capacity, but much less damage. Up-close and personal weaponry to help put enemies off their course.

Whatif at the time of placement, they must be within a specific signature area, like 1au out from a stargate only, or only, to support your idea, be allowed to be placed with a mine-pod module (much like the expanded probe bay only MUCH larger to fit)?


Having large Mines in your cargohold in High Security Sectors will be red flagged immediatly by customs, and result in the destroying of vessel.

Small mines, with the explosive capabilites of smaller missles, will be able to be deployed in high sector, but since there is, as you say "friend or foe" result in the mines (which are linked to your targeting also) instantly targeting any ship for aggresion, leaving you at the mercy of Concord.

Sice pods have such a low signature, they are never detected by mines.

Only your ship gives off a "low frequency" that the probes read from your module that classify you, or fleeted, as a friendly. All others are considered hostile, and treated thereas.

There is so much I want to bring back into Mines as a whole, but they cannot just be a messy nuiscance that causes economic problems for miners, which I should NOT have stated in my proposal theory, as they should only be critical in 0.0, and minimal in higher security areas.

The fact that mines have auto-targeting, an enemy TARGETED by a mine has aggression on the deployer & fleet (since they are invulnerable also, they should be treated equally.)

A vessel that has laid mines, and docks, will loose ownership of the mines (whether undocked again with module or not) and be treated as hostile. Though control ownership will be lost, aggression will still be given to the deployer in any circumstances.

Help me get more ideas, I know some of you are amazing thinkers.

Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.

Posted - 2010.03.30 10:08:00 - [5]
 

i'm a minefield fan too and since long, the main problem with mines is : lag , the only way to reintroduce them is to manage them globaly like bubbles a global area of effect with minefield graphic, but no way a minefield can be managed mine by mine
galaxy quest minefield

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.03.30 10:36:00 - [6]
 

the rules say you should search for similar posts before posting your own ideas.

as you failed at it i happily link you the last thread on the same topic.

to summarize it for you:

1. we had mines already
2. they got removed
a) people got owned by concord when their mines killed someone.
b) people spammed mines like crazy on gates to lag people out
3. devs stated mines wont come back

that said ... not supported. this is kind of AFK pvp. ... people just get too lazy.

Erich Herrmann
Posted - 2010.03.30 10:56:00 - [7]
 

To quote what I put on your other post on the 'Features and Ideas Discussion' forum:

Originally by: Erich Herrmann
If I remember correctly, mines have been done before. The issue is people would place a mine in low-sec and then enter high-sec. Some time later, a random passer-by would bump into the mine and get blown to bits. The mine placer would end up with GCC for aggressing a neutral and, being in highsec, would get CONCORDOKKEN. For this reason, they'd be restricted to null-sec.

I, personally, don't like the idea of mines. The idea that you can purchase them, place them and then fly away, to the other side of the universe if you really want, but still be able to 'kill' people without being there. They'd have to expire after a short amount of time or deactivate when the mine layer leaves.

Placing them at belts would be a nightmare for miners; what defence could they possibly have against mines? Mining barges and Exhumers have very little HP as it is; if it warps to a belt and lands on top of 5 mines, will it pop? What would the answer to said problem be? Warping at range? In a combat ship first? Chances are, after a couple of weeks, mines will become ineffective and nothing more than a nuisance when used in this way.

Placing them at gates would not be possible, you say. What about stations? Who needs to camp a station when you can put mines on the docking ramp? You could place the mines around the station, at positions where pilots are likely to warp to when docking, which could instapop smaller ships faster than most ships could lock it. Again, there would be little defence against this, other than placing bookmarks away from the station and such, which in turn, becomes nothing more than a nuisance.

And buying them in batches of 1,000,000? What about placing them at a POS? 1,000,000 mines on grid? Imagine the lag and the advantage to the defender.

As it stands, the only disadvantage to the defender (that I can see) is the cost of the things and the time spent placing them, but, after that, it's like win on a stick. As for the attacker? Well ... he's f**ked.


Of course, if what darius mclever said about 'CCP saying no' is true, then ... well ... nothing we say really matters!

Kate Machine
Posted - 2010.03.30 12:40:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Rudazara
Alot of crap
-Rudazara
[email protected]



I see clearly - Minefield before the gate, cloaked guy, frags keep warping in.

Verdict: NO.

Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Shadow Cadre
Shadow Confederation
Posted - 2010.03.30 20:53:00 - [9]
 

CCP removed them due to the random CONCORD's and massive amounts of LAG caused by spamming minefields.

I seriously doubt they will bring it back.

Good or bad... rewritten mechanics or not... it could be severely abused with little to no effort.

Not supporting.

hired goon
Posted - 2010.03.31 10:37:00 - [10]
 

People in this thread really should try to engage their brains and think before randomly spamming "NO LOL" because in your mind mines can only work in a single negative way. If brought back mines would be balanced and contribute an interesting gameplay option. Devs have long said they would like to revisit mines. Signed.

Di Mulle
Posted - 2010.03.31 11:14:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: hired goon
People in this thread really should try to engage their brains and think before randomly spamming "want want want"


Fixed a bit Very Happy

Originally by: hired goon
If mines would be balanced they can be brought back


Fixed again Very Happy

hired goon
Posted - 2010.03.31 20:44:00 - [12]
 

Thanks for the attempt to help out, but my original post was closer to what I meant. Keep posting though, your contributions are helpful and original.

Erich Herrmann
Posted - 2010.03.31 20:55:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: hired goon
If brought back mines would be balanced and contribute an interesting gameplay option.


Please enlighten us as to how mines would be brought back in a balanced way ...

hired goon
Posted - 2010.04.03 13:36:00 - [14]
 

Alright, well just off the top of my head, their use could be banned in high-sec because that would obviously be chaos. Also you could maybe have a 'mine field' rather than just individual mines, which you choose the size of and 'deploy'. This would decrease the horrible lag from hundreds of single entities having to be rendered.

darius mclever
Posted - 2010.04.03 13:47:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: hired goon
Alright, well just off the top of my head, their use could be banned in high-sec because that would obviously be chaos. Also you could maybe have a 'mine field' rather than just individual mines, which you choose the size of and 'deploy'. This would decrease the horrible lag from hundreds of single entities having to be rendered.


and how do you solve that gates become totally unusable from spamming them?
how do you solve the concord issue?

Taxesarebad
Posted - 2010.04.04 00:06:00 - [16]
 

this sounds kinda over powered. and couldnt i make a safespot then mine it up so people warping by get killed in lowsec?

Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.04 07:49:00 - [17]
 

Opposed.

Mines have been tried and ruin game play.

hired goon
Posted - 2010.04.04 11:47:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: darius mclever
Originally by: hired goon
Alright, well just off the top of my head, their use could be banned in high-sec because that would obviously be chaos. Also you could maybe have a 'mine field' rather than just individual mines, which you choose the size of and 'deploy'. This would decrease the horrible lag from hundreds of single entities having to be rendered.


and how do you solve that gates become totally unusable from spamming them?
how do you solve the concord issue?


Concord issue already solved: I said banned in hi sec.

As for unusable gates... maybe you could have different mines that affect either larger or smaller ships, with only one type allowed in a field at once. Or maybe no mines allowed at gates, or only a certain size of mine field... I don't know I'm making this up as I go along. The point it there could easily be a discussion to discover how to best implement them. I'm not going to completely 'design' mines in this thread in a Q&A session with you :p

debbie harrio
Posted - 2010.04.04 12:06:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: hired goon


Concord issue already solved: I said banned in hi sec.



That does not solve the concord problem


Originally by: hired goon
for unusable gates... maybe you could have different mines that affect either larger or smaller ships, with only one type allowed in a field at once. Or maybe no mines allowed at gates, or only a certain size of mine field... I don't know I'm making this up as I go along. The point it there could easily be a discussion to discover how to best implement them. I'm not going to completely 'design' mines in this thread in a Q&A session with you :p


There is no point at all, mines are op and with their use comes a host of other problems and yes, we can all tell you are making it up as you go along.

Blackjack Turner
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2010.04.04 14:48:00 - [20]
 

Not supported.

However - if they created a "minelayer" ship that deployed mines in keeping with current restrictions on drones, i.e. - no more than 5 mines per ship it could work, maybe.

Hien Morisato
Posted - 2010.04.09 19:22:00 - [21]
 

lol yeah used to play TradeWars2002 back in the day loved mines especially "limpit mines" we didn't have these fancy tracking agents. Anyway don't think they will bring them back though a set of specific ships for mine laying might increase the chances also mines should be treated more like "bombs" being that they are basically 'floating bombs' that activate when a target ship gets close. I liked the idea of limiting mines to a set number per toon. But 5 really isn't enough to set up a successful mine field you would need something around 1000. Love the idea about not letting "combat" mines into empire space that would result in less CONCORD aggression as well as any other problems. Though the problem of lag issues would still be there as I'm sure people woud put the maxium number of mines out as well as create multiple toons to incease they're mine numbers. lol sorry this also brings up the scene from startrek Deep Space 9 of the cloacking self replicating mine field lol.

Hertford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.10 09:15:00 - [22]
 

Regarding the lag caused by having lots of mines deployed on grid...

There's a turn-based space empire game called Stars! which also had mines, but it handled them as a field. If you laid some mines, you would create a minefield. If you laid more mines into an existing field, it got bigger. If some of the mines detonated, the field would shrink, and a minesweeper would also cause the field to shrink.

So instead of keeping track of hundreds or thousands of individual mines, the game would just keep track of the minefields. The mines themselves were described as semi-mobile, so if a gap appeared inside, the mines would move themselves to fill the gap to keep the density, which resulted in the field shrinking. Adding mines would cause them to ripple away, enlarging the field.

Mortimer Civeri
Gallente
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2010.04.11 03:33:00 - [23]
 

The only way it could be balanced is if the mine layer had to stay on grid with the mines, no cloaking or anything. If he warps off grid/cloaks, they go inert like drones.(hey free mines) There, no more getting Concorded in Highsec when one of your mines agros some random dude who stumbled into your minefield, you completely forgot about. Heck make them an anchor-able damage dealing bubble and it might be OK, if they can't be inside a warp bubble too.

Hien Morisato
Posted - 2010.04.12 20:51:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Mortimer Civeri
The only way it could be balanced is if the mine layer had to stay on grid with the mines, no cloaking or anything. If he warps off grid/cloaks, they go inert like drones.(hey free mines) There, no more getting Concorded in Highsec when one of your mines agros some random dude who stumbled into your minefield, you completely forgot about. Heck make them an anchor-able damage dealing bubble and it might be OK, if they can't be inside a warp bubble too.


Had a Co-worker reading over my shoulder when I was looking this topic over again and he asked me a few questions so I had to explain what all this was lol thats was an entertaining conversation glad it wasn't my boss lol. Nothing like a fresh set of eyes on something. So gonna quote what he wanted to ask you Mortimer Civeri. "would they come back online after you de-cloak or finish your warp cycle?". lol told him to get the game don't think he will he was kinda over whelmed with all the politics of the game. Anyway love the Free mines idea could set them up to target only hostiles towards you, standings, or WTs rather then just dumbie mines. I mean in game they are far more advanced with technology lol why not! lol not my idea his btw. Like I said nice to have someone new look at something.


 

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