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Zhek Kromtor
Posted - 2010.03.27 04:45:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Zhek Kromtor on 27/03/2010 21:10:54
After being erroneously 3-day banned for "macro use" while merely mining as a multiboxer (no macros or automation were being used - just Synergy a program that lets you share 1 mouse over multiple computers) I decided to make a site to demonstrate how I have adapted my technique of multiboxing to definitely not break any rules of the EULA. I no longer use Synergy or even mine. I can understand how seeing 12 ospreys mining would cause players and GM's to assume the worst. Now I'm training exploration to hopefully do some complexes.

Here's the site explaining how I have more computers than friends:
http://sites.google.com/site/khromtor/

If we could get some clarification from CCP about whether using programs like Synergy that merely allow you to use a single mouse among multiple computers in the same way someone uses a single mouse when they have multiple displays that would definitely open the door to a lot more multiboxers... and multiboxers are generally very fun to pewpew. Just ask the guys that blew up my entire rokh mining fleet a week ago as I attempted my 0.0 escape.

Edit: Whether or not using a wooden dowel across some keypads is allowed is not up for debate IMO. The use of prosthetics, pirate hooks, wooden dowels or your face for pressing buttons is simply not breaking any rules. The question is whether or not multiboxers should be allowed to use common multiboxing software explicity allowed in almost all other major MMO's.


Severus Caro
Caldari
Macro Hunters and Killers
Posted - 2010.03.27 04:52:00 - [2]
 

Just... wow.

Yes, not exactly constructive, but I have to say...

Wendi Watson
Organization Too Secret To Know
Posted - 2010.03.27 05:01:00 - [3]
 

http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/eula.asp

Section 7, A, 3:
Quote:
You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


Such a setup can hardly be considered a normal game play

Thorning
Posted - 2010.03.27 05:29:00 - [4]
 

That's both ridiculous - the measures taken to not potentially violate an EVE rule - and hilariously awesome Shocked - the overall setup. Wish I could afford that kind of setup.

Is standard multiboxing with synergy and broadcasted keystrokes really not permitted in EVE? Its allowed in like every MMO out there. I find it hard to believe that EVE would have some weird restriction on it. Neutral

I see the GM comment you refer to on your site, but I bet there is a good chance that's just a random GM dude who doesn't really know/understand multiboxing or how the rules of EVE apply to it. ugh

Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2010.03.27 06:08:00 - [5]
 

whoa.. I really like eve and have on many occasions ran 5 accounts at once on one machine using dual screens but that setup is just borderline crazy.Surprised I salute you. 07

Kayai
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.03.27 06:10:00 - [6]
 

wow, just wow... asinine in deed.

Jerid Verges
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.03.27 06:15:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Wendi Watson
http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/eula.asp

Section 7, A, 3:
Quote:
You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


Such a setup can hardly be considered a normal game play


Yet it is perfectly okay to metagame with 2, 3, even more alts.

Doublestandards.

Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
Posted - 2010.03.27 06:27:00 - [8]
 

It's a low tech macro, but still a macro. I applaud your creativity and engineering skills but am glad that CCP bans your accounts. We got enough problems with alts and people 2-3 boxing and the like, we don't need this.

Also, they only ban macro users for 3 days? Well I can see why we are still flooded with macros to this day.

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2010.03.27 06:29:00 - [9]
 

I think the OP shouldn't be worried about being banned from Eve. First he should get a life. Paying for 14 accounts to suck roids looks like RMT farming and certainly can not be considered a NORMAL gameplay.

Ji Sama
Caldari
Tash-Murkon Prime Industries
Posted - 2010.03.27 07:05:00 - [10]
 

Shocked

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.03.27 07:44:00 - [11]
 

I salute you

o7

while I really don't think your bad, a line has to be drawn and for me the line is you have to click yourself the buttons that take the actions. Programs (or pieces of wood) that let you do multiple button clicks at once are stepping over that line.

Cambarus
Malicious Destruction
War Against the Manifest
Posted - 2010.03.27 07:47:00 - [12]
 

I've seen threads like this before and CCP have actually stated that it's allowed to use certain macros and mouse/keyboard duplicators for the purpose of multiboxing, but tbh with that many accounts running at the same time you really shouldn't be surprised that CCP assumed the worst. I mean like 2 or 3 fine, maybe even 4, but 12? That's just asking for GMs to poke their noses in >_>

Serpents smile
Posted - 2010.03.27 07:50:00 - [13]
 

Shocked That's just nuckingfuts!

Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2010.03.27 10:25:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Cambarus
I've seen threads like this before and CCP have actually stated that it's allowed to use certain macros and mouse/keyboard duplicators for the purpose of multiboxing


No.

DearMotherOfGod
Tim and Sasha Savings and Loans
Posted - 2010.03.27 10:29:00 - [15]
 

You're clearly crazy(in the good kind of way)

L1P
Posted - 2010.03.27 10:37:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Wendi Watson
http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/eula.asp

Section 7, A, 3:
Quote:
You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


Such a setup can hardly be considered a normal game play


Not normal yes, but I salute his ingenuity and he does not use macros or stored rapid keystrokes.

While I understand how it would look to a GM, they got it wrong in this case.

Dirk Mortice
Posted - 2010.03.27 10:44:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Dirk Mortice on 27/03/2010 10:45:09
Originally by: Zhek Kromtor
After being 3-day banned for merely mining as a multiboxer (the ban stated "macro use" though no macros or automation were being used) I decided to make a site to demonstrate how you can multibox without breaking any rules. I won't be mining anymore and I can understand how seeing 12 ospreys mining would cause players and GM's to assume the worst. Now I'm training exploration to hopefully do some complexes.

Here's the site explaining how I have more computers than friends:
http://sites.google.com/site/khromtor/

If we could get some clarification from CCP about whether using programs like Synergy that merely allow you to use a single mouse among multiple computers in the same way someone uses a single mouse when they have multiple displays that would definitely open the door to a lot more multiboxers... and multiboxers are generally very fun to pewpew. Just ask the guys that blew up my entire rokh mining fleet a week ago as I attempted my 0.0 escape.



You got banned for it, that sounds like clarification to me, no?

Also, mining with 12 ospreys, are you kidding me!?? Why would you ever want to do that

Arec Bardwin
Posted - 2010.03.27 10:56:00 - [18]
 

What does your girlfriend say to that crazy computer setup??

Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2010.03.27 10:56:00 - [19]
 

Heh, awesome.

Gauss Gun
Posted - 2010.03.27 10:57:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Gauss Gun on 27/03/2010 10:58:20
Originally by: Wendi Watson
http://www.eveonline.com/pnp/eula.asp

Section 7, A, 3:
Quote:
You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play. You may not rewrite or modify the user interface or otherwise manipulate data in any way to acquire items, currency, objects, character attributes or beneficial actions not actually acquired or achieved in the Game.


Such a setup can hardly be considered a normal game play


As with any "law" wording can be interpreted in different ways, however I strongly disagree with CCP's an in this case. What does constitute pattern of play ? Pattern by definition in the context of eve can be interpreted as a set of repetetive actions which take place over and over again. By that logic any single missioner will be considered a macro miner because he keeps doing same stuff over and over again - run one mission after another - PATTERN.

In defense of the guy I would like to say that traditionally macro mining was referred to robot manipulating account rather than a real human being. The logic here is such, that for all other "honest" players its kinda difficult to compete with people who macro mine, hence the activity is made illegal.

What we have here is not the case of macro mining simply put because it is actually REAL human being sitting behind the monitor. What we do have is some creative thinking as to how he could make resources available to him more productive and useful. In order to make his ideas work he is using some nifty technical ideas.

By the logic of that CCP GM who banned him in the first place, he should be banned again for longer for 2nd offence. Simply because even though he did change technical means, but he is (by his own admission) keeps doing the same thing as before - mining in high sec with multiple accounts, but now he is controlling them not by means of some programme but rather by means of 10 of mouses stacked together.

I have a feeling that GM just did not bother to look into the situation carefully enough to properly evaluate it and issued a ban.

So we can we have a proper official opinion on the matter ?

edit/ spelling

Dratic
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2010.03.27 11:00:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Dirk Mortice
Edited by: Dirk Mortice on 27/03/2010 10:45:09
Originally by: Zhek Kromtor
After being 3-day banned for merely mining as a multiboxer (the ban stated "macro use" though no macros or automation were being used) I decided to make a site to demonstrate how you can multibox without breaking any rules. I won't be mining anymore and I can understand how seeing 12 ospreys mining would cause players and GM's to assume the worst. Now I'm training exploration to hopefully do some complexes.

Here's the site explaining how I have more computers than friends:
http://sites.google.com/site/khromtor/

If we could get some clarification from CCP about whether using programs like Synergy that merely allow you to use a single mouse among multiple computers in the same way someone uses a single mouse when they have multiple displays that would definitely open the door to a lot more multiboxers... and multiboxers are generally very fun to pewpew. Just ask the guys that blew up my entire rokh mining fleet a week ago as I attempted my 0.0 escape.



You got banned for it, that sounds like clarification to me, no?

Also, mining with 12 ospreys, are you kidding me!?? Why would you ever want to do that

Why not! He's obviously got the hardware for it, hes done the drakes, myrms now a few ospreys for mining.

Dirk Mortice
Posted - 2010.03.27 11:05:00 - [22]
 

Confused
Originally by: Dratic
Originally by: Dirk Mortice
Edited by: Dirk Mortice on 27/03/2010 10:45:09
Originally by: Zhek Kromtor
After being 3-day banned for merely mining as a multiboxer (the ban stated "macro use" though no macros or automation were being used) I decided to make a site to demonstrate how you can multibox without breaking any rules. I won't be mining anymore and I can understand how seeing 12 ospreys mining would cause players and GM's to assume the worst. Now I'm training exploration to hopefully do some complexes.

Here's the site explaining how I have more computers than friends:
http://sites.google.com/site/khromtor/

If we could get some clarification from CCP about whether using programs like Synergy that merely allow you to use a single mouse among multiple computers in the same way someone uses a single mouse when they have multiple displays that would definitely open the door to a lot more multiboxers... and multiboxers are generally very fun to pewpew. Just ask the guys that blew up my entire rokh mining fleet a week ago as I attempted my 0.0 escape.



You got banned for it, that sounds like clarification to me, no?

Also, mining with 12 ospreys, are you kidding me!?? Why would you ever want to do that

Why not! He's obviously got the hardware for it, hes done the drakes, myrms now a few ospreys for mining.


whatever floats your internet spaceboat I suppose

Baneken
Gallente
The New Knighthood
Apocalypse Now.
Posted - 2010.03.27 11:18:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Arec Bardwin
What does your girlfriend say to that crazy computer setup??



You assume that OP's girlfriend hasn't left already with an obsession like that ?

Jim Pooley
The Jeremy Kyle Holding Pen
Posted - 2010.03.27 11:24:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Baneken
Originally by: Arec Bardwin
What does your girlfriend say to that crazy computer setup??



You assume that OP's girlfriend hasn't left already with an obsession like that ?


And you're assuming he even had one in the first place Laughing

Ramiera DaMorre
Posted - 2010.03.27 11:26:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Ramiera DaMorre on 27/03/2010 11:26:09


Now you're just assuming all girls are "normal" and just like the others. Rolling Eyes

Mara Rinn
Posted - 2010.03.27 11:28:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Wendi Watson
Section 7, A, 3:
Quote:
You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play....


Such a setup can hardly be considered a normal game play


How? He's not doing anything that 14 players side by side couldn't do too. He's not acquiring items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status faster than 14 players side by side.

He's doing ordinary game play on 14 computers side by side.

If you're going to quote the rules, at least emphasise the important points:

Quote:
You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play....


See? Focus on the important qualifier in the sentence, and suddenly it all becomes crystal clear.

Originally by: Baneken
You assume that OP's girlfriend hasn't left already with an obsession like that ?


You assume the OP ever had a girlfriend?

Hamno
The Hamno Corp
Posted - 2010.03.27 11:34:00 - [27]
 

Well, if your going to do something you might as do it well...

Fingers McSteal
Posted - 2010.03.27 12:00:00 - [28]
 

lol... Suggestion... Standup and go to window of house your in... look outside... discover there is a world out there with beer and women in it and seriously... you need to get out more Wink

Swiftgaze
Elysium Trading Company
Posted - 2010.03.27 12:01:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Swiftgaze on 27/03/2010 12:02:12
It's funny how you're still discussing about rules that aren't any.


You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.


Argument: "No Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge."
Answer: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman, and he puts sugar in his porridge."
Falsification: "Yes, but your uncle Angus is no true Scotsman."

There is no true definition of the subject of discussion, ordinary game play, which means the rule you are debating about is undefined as well. This is pointless.

Gauss Gun
Posted - 2010.03.27 12:04:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Swiftgaze
Edited by: Swiftgaze on 27/03/2010 12:02:12
It's funny how you're still discussing about rules that aren't any.


You may not use macros or other stored rapid keystrokes or other patterns of play that facilitate acquisition of items, currency, objects, character attributes, rank or status at an accelerated rate when compared with ordinary Game play.


Argument: "No Scotsman puts sugar in his porridge."
Answer: "But my uncle Angus is a Scotsman, and he puts sugar in his porridge."
Falsification: "Yes, but your uncle Angus is no true Scotsman."

There is no true definition of the subject of discussion, ordinary game play, which means the rule you are debating about is undefined as well. This is pointless.


thats why we need an official response for this


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