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Dacryphile
Posted - 2010.04.19 02:43:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Moonduste
Some more days in, getting the hang of it more. Today i did two level 4's and between the killing and salvaging, made 40 million between them. Not shabby:) Going to be saving up next for my CNR ^_^
It would probably be better to start investing in Caldari Navy BCSs and cruiser launchers. Each one you get will give you a very healthy boost to DPS, increasing the isk/hour you earn.

As an added bonus, when you get your CNR you will have all the faction gear for it (short one launcher), instead of hobbling around with meta 4 and T2.

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.19 05:40:00 - [92]
 

Sure..however

CNR gets me 1 more launcher for 480 or so million. Thats 17% more DPS just there...and it has quite a bit more tank.

Using the same fit, + 1 launcher

My effective health points go up 36K (70K to 106K)

My sustained defense goes up by 5, not sure what that means (Raven is 449/520 using 2 kin hardeners and 1 thermal hardener vs 60% kinetic and 40 % thermal damage. CNR has 454/525. I assume its some mild difference in shield recharge rates).

DPS IN Raven (with 5 hammer head II): Is 424, DPS in a CNR (same drones) is 478. So changing ship + an extra launcher is a 54 dps increase.

If I take the raven and modify it as you mentioned: 6x cruise launchers (caldari) and 4x bcu's, my dps goes up to 495. A consider...very considerable increase.

But..whats pricier? 6x faction launch, 50 million each = 300 million. Ballistic control is about 85 mill average or another 340 million for 680 million. If i cut out the ballistic controls then, then im down to 471 dps on the Raven; still very good.

The CNR seems to go for 480 million. If i add on 2 caldari navy ballistic control units (for about 460 million spent upgrading the ranve) then im looking at 487 dps, although i do not get the extra 30 K effective HP boost.

However there are some hidden costs with the CNR; A i need to insure it (another 100 mill?) and i need to rig it (another 150 mill) so yeah..hidden costs:) The 30 K additional EHP is fairly yummy. I mean..percentage wise its pretty huge (almost another 50% effective HP!). For me to be able to however fit everything on my raven, ill need launcher rigging 4 and ill need everything. Ill need the caldari BCUS if only because they use much less cpu, since caldari cruise launchers use more cpu than arablest launchers.

Thank you for the food for thought, I'll have to weigh it against my other options. For pure dps, it does seem the cheaper route, however if i can find a CNR for a steal, i think the combined / Effective Hit Points might be more ideal for me.

Jamie Banks
Quantum Horizons
Posted - 2010.04.19 06:09:00 - [93]
 

Edited by: Jamie Banks on 19/04/2010 06:39:35
*Whoop-a-itcsh* Daco.

Obviously your someone with half a brain so the only points I can think of adding to this already pretty useful thread:

- Faction Ship and Insurance:
Any faction ship is only insurable for the T1 cost of the hull being used. As such a CNR's insurance is exactly the same cost/payout as a normal Raven.

- I find that rushing into a CNR is a bad thing, the CNR is for all intents and purposes better than a regular Raven for missioning it is also far more expensive especially faction fit. I would highly suggest you at the bare minimum run every mission that is offered to you at least twice, this is to get to know the intricies of Lvl 4's and the finer techniques to doing it. Hitting the wrong spawn trigger, shooting ECM ships as primary etc etc. Eve-survival helps but getting out there and doing them all is better.

- Gank
The more ISK/ Faction Gear you fit to your CNR, the more people are gonna be paying attention to you, stuffing your CNR with faction gear will get to the point suicide gankers will pay attention to your CNR flavoured ISK pinata', be aware. Also why I love to fit a DC2 to ALL of my ships (more gank resistance). Except my Domi ;p (EANM ftw) And yes, people can Gank a CNR in high-sec; Takes about 12 BS though.

Dacryphile
Posted - 2010.04.19 08:37:00 - [94]
 

I have been using the following fit for months. I've gotten scanned while undocking numerous times, but nobody has ever ganked me. I have seen a golem go boom boom on a gate though. I'm just guessing here, but I'm thinking that golem had a deadspace fitting and this group of gankers were not interested in a "mere faction fit."

By the time moon can afford it, he will have run every mission his agent has to offer a dozen times.

[Raven Navy Issue, mission ship]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Damage Control II

Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile
Small Tractor Beam I

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I


Hammerhead II x5
Hammerhead II x2
Hobgoblin II x5

The point about insurance is true though. T2 and faction ships just don't pay out. That may change with the next expansion though.

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.19 14:53:00 - [95]
 

That seems in general far better than the CC builds ive seen. With the rigors your using, your gonna be putting the hurt out quite a bit more efficiently. While Cap Boosters have been something of a pain to get used to, they are not that bad..and they save you needing to use a Power Manager in a low slot I noticed.....so being able to use the DCUII becomes gravy (virtually a free universal tank buff).

Think I will keep with that mindset as I go to a CNR. While the CCC rigors + Power mod in the low slot might allow for effectively 'risk free' tanking cause of recharge rates, the damage output difference on battle cruisers and cruisers seems fairly significant, and I'm noticing cruisers (especially BC's) are a huge threat in level 4's given their numbers. Taking them out in a volley or two seems more efficient in sustaining your tank than spending many more volleys on a battle ship. Right now my strategy has been, barring any conflicts with eve survival:

#1 Cruisers/Battle Cruisers (is there an easy way to tell the difference other than eve survival?)
#2 Battle Ships

My Hammerhead II are on the Frigates and then on Cruisers.

Note: Im not noticing a huge difference vs frigates for hammerhead II vs hobgoblin II's. Is there one? I imagine hobgoblin II's would be better, maybe its just that its hard to notice the difference by eye.

Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.19 15:20:00 - [96]
 

You can kill normal frigates with anything ( even cruise if you want ), it's NPC interceptors that you want to kill asap, and Hobs/other light drones are way more effective.

I've never really felt the urge or need to get CN invulns; the hardeners are quite nice if you're saving fragments of cap use or have fitting issues. Never really felt the urge to get all 4 CN bcus either, there's a big list of things I'll drop ISK on before an extra 10 dps.

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.19 16:03:00 - [97]
 

basically using 2 caldari invulns allows you to use the shield booster amplifier. If your ussing mission specific hardners, you need 3 slots generally (2x for your highest resist, 1 x for another).

So...37.5 x 2 + 12% (unpenalized)

Assuming a thermal heavy fight (60% thermal, 40% kinetic or something) and using 2 named thermal hardenrs and 1 kinetic, and a dcu II:

72,523 EHP
467/531 sustained defense efficiency
12.5% (EM) 80.2% (therm) 73.8% (kin) 56.3% (explosion)

Same damage spectrum, 2 caldari invulns

66,470 EHP
389/453 sustained defense
57.5% (EM) 70.5(Therm) 78.6% (kin) 81.6% (explosion)

Add in the shield efficiency booster..
Throw on a Caldari Navy Shield Booster
66,470 EHP
514/600 sustained defense

So...your sustained goes up against our heavy therm (note therm is not ideal, EM would be the worst). So..it work pretty well in any situation other than an EM heavy mission. In EM Heavy youd probably want to swap off one caldari navy invuln and replace it with an EM specific hardener?

Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.19 16:38:00 - [98]
 

My tank is three hardeners, DG XL, and a t2 heavy cap booster; *what* hardeners depends on the mission. Often one is an invuln, but I've never found a situation where you'd want more than one ( I'm not even sure I have more than one at that mission site ). I've also not come across a situation where it would have made a difference using a CN one, either, other than maybe using 1-2 less cap charges. I have a philosophical problem with SBAs, in that they only work when the booster does, and one module that's only a part time tank is plenty.

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.19 17:16:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Moonduste on 19/04/2010 17:17:47
Well I'm not debating that the CN Invuln is like..the dream team of tanking. Its nice. If you go the route of 1 specific and 1 invuln, then that might work. The Eve Survival ratios of damage seem fairly ambigious (if it says heavy em/therm i mean..does that mean 70/30 or 50/50? That can throw off your tank a great deal). The ideal of using 2 invulns in anything 'ambigious' seems attractive (unless its EM!), due to its simplicity, however if you KNOW your going to take the majority of damage as X and the rest as Y, then i guess a mission spec + invuln does an ok job.

I still think that, short of an EM fight, dual caldari navy invulns are a fairly attractive answer, albeit not very cost effective :) Ergo Nothing I will be doing anytime shortly.

As I move into a CNR (or outfit my current raven more) I might swap around some of my fittings.

Returning to the subject of the CNR (short term) vs faction gear (short term) I'm a bit confused. Realizing corp mates can likely create the rigs for me, the debate is do i want more dps on my raven for 480 ish mill, or more dps (but still short of the raven) + 30K more effective health points for 580 ish mill (CNR + Insuring it). I'm leaning towards the later a bit, but that might be the old drake pilot in me screaming for 'more tank'. Although there are some valid arguments to the CNR, it has more room for fitting on it, even with the 7th launcher. It means I could step up to tier 2 hardeners with less of an issue with fitting.

EDIT: I just realized you say you use three hardeners. Thats what I use at the moment as well. It works pretty well (2x vs the primary damage, 1x vs the secondary). 2x faction invulns seem to work nearly as well however and give you the efficiency booster which is huge, however you have a giant hole in EM. Any EM mission will really need you to go back to 3x hardeners i think.



Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Posted - 2010.04.19 17:28:00 - [100]
 

Quote:
What do i need to start a Raven?


Some jumper cables and a can of ether?

babybeefy
Posted - 2010.04.19 21:00:00 - [101]
 

I see a lotta xlarge booster setups here, now firstly let me say that these do work, however here is an alternative which you may feel beneficial if you have a few more pennies....

Highs:
7 x best cruise launchers
1 x tractor for pickups

Meds:
4 x active hardeners (mission specific)
2 x pithi b small shield booster (yes small booster)

Lows:
3 x BCS T2
2 x PDS T2

Rigs:
2 x rigor
1 x ccc

Drones:
5 x hammerhead 2
5 x hobgoblin 2

Now I know what you are thinking, this will never have the tank to do the missions, but trust me, you will be pleasantly surpised. I used this setup on my main some time ago, and have just finished training my alt up on it now and it still works real good.

Manage yer aggro, and this setup ill cruise every mission with the exception of enemies abound part 5, which is just too much dps for the shield boosters to cope with.

If you do still have tank problems, drop aan active hardener for a decent shield boost amplifier, but you really shouldnt need it.

Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.20 01:16:00 - [102]
 

Originally by: Moonduste

EDIT: I just realized you say you use three hardeners. Thats what I use at the moment as well. It works pretty well (2x vs the primary damage, 1x vs the secondary). 2x faction invulns seem to work nearly as well however and give you the efficiency booster which is huge, however you have a giant hole in EM. Any EM mission will really need you to go back to 3x hardeners i think.



Usually some mix of therm+kin, exp+kin+invuln for odd angels ( running in Amarr space, that's basically World's Collide only ) and if I did Sansha/Blood in it instead of an Abaddon it'd probably be EM+EM+therm. I have never been in a situation in that boat where I've run out of tank; I've been in one situation so far where I ran out of cap boosters, but I got a bad warp into the end of WC & aggro'd nearly the entire room from about 2km and that's not really usual. If I hadn't been impatient I'd have left with booster charges there too, but the last ship dying as you get your last boost cycle off is about where you should be, tbh.

Eve survival mission reports aren't much more than a general tactical reference; if you want to see what damage stuff is going to do, you need to go off and research the rats, just like you would for any other confrontation. Thankfully there's a link to a NPC database right on the site already. You will learn things like the Angel destroyers in WC do mostly thermal damage, so having *some* therm resist is useful ( bunches of destroyers do a surprising amount of damage ) as is wiping them out asap, but as they go splat just about as soon as you look at them in a BS, therm damage isn't something you really have to worry about that much.

Randomly picked Sansha battleship does 70/30 EM/therm, plus EM cruise btw. Randomly picked Blood Raider BS does about even EM/Therm, and then lobs Kin cruise. I suspect a mission report for either faction would say EM/Therm, but you might want to tank those differently... research 'em if you're unsure.

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.20 04:15:00 - [103]
 

So more musings and queries.

I have a target painter but...cause of the rigs im using my missiles they only have a 165 M explosion (down from 300 after 45%). Cruisers seem to have a signature of 140-150. With 3 ranks of guided missile precision, I decrease the explosion radius bonus by another 15% it seems (im not sure if this stacks evenly or after the fact. I assume it applies before hand since under attributes it lists the effect as "-5% explosion radius bonus).Thats 60% smaller explosions or effectivly a 120 m explosion.

So the question...is there a reason to use a target painter, since the only targets ill be doing bonus damage to would be frigs which is what my tech II drones are for?

It would seem that target painters are for people that use CCC rigs (and thus are exploding at 300m, which is a huge difference for anything sub battle ship!) or for torpedos (zoinks!) but for someone using the warhead catalyst...needless?

If thats the case I'm thinking right now my medium slots should go
named xl booster
tech 2 capacitor booster
mission hardener
mission hardener
mission hardener
shield booster effiency thingy

I would need to train up more missile launcher rigging to squeeze in the cpu, but it seems smarter than using the painter if it wont do much for me.

Dacryphile
Posted - 2010.04.20 05:08:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Moonduste

So the question...is there a reason to use a target painter, since the only targets ill be doing bonus damage to would be frigs which is what my tech II drones are for?
You may be surprised, but TPs help apply damage to BSs even. This is easy enough to test. Find a mission where a BS spawns from far away and heads straight for you. If you fire on him, you will see that your damage is the same for every hit. Now cycle your TP on and off and you will see that it helps even with bigger ships. Not enough that I would wait for the TP cycle to finish before firing on a new ship, but since it helps I always use it.

BornePassive
Caldari
Nine-Divines
Posted - 2010.04.20 05:33:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: BornePassive on 20/04/2010 05:35:29
Hey moon,

Well firstly level 4's are easy missions, its the faction ones that can run you down a fair bit, but let me happily tell you i was running level 4's when i had 4.5 mil sp (Yes that low.) Only problem with this is that back then torp dps over range was pretty incredible, and cruise raven's didn't have much on it, but i'm now onto cruise, running the same setup over the last few years and its running level 4's fine.

Im using

6 'Arbalest' Cruise Launchers
2 Heavy Diminishing

1 Large Shield Booster II
4 Race specific fields (Tech 2)

Tech 1 cheap named shield boost amp.

3 Ballistic Controls II
2 Power Diagnostics unit,

3 Capacitor Control Circuits.

Alternatively you can replace a ballistic control with a damage control for more tank when you need it,

To use this setup, basically take on pockets individually instead of full room agro, if you do this right you can handle any level 4 with easy (Except the faction ones like enemies abound) and if you struggle to tank, remember that killing some of the cruisers and battlecruisers will remove damage fast,

I hope this helps.

TwiggyHazz
Posted - 2010.04.20 07:06:00 - [106]
 

Oh kn0es here comes teh eFT warri0z =o perma tanked CnR FOR TEH WINN0RZ

[Raven Navy Issue, Lol fit copy 1]
Damage Control II
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System

Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Brokara's Modified Cap Recharger

Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Paradise Cruise Missile
[empty high slot]

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II


Hobgoblin II x5
Hammerhead II x5

Perma tanks 589 omni

With HG crytals goes to 867 omni

Thought I would make a perma tank setup thats better than one with those XL boosters =P

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.20 11:31:00 - [107]
 

I threw the same stuff into eft...and i dont see a perma tank. It will last 12 minutes (which hey, is long) although admittedly with all level V skills it does become stable at 37%. Its interesting, although in any heavy EM mission id be a little leery; lets assume 80% em 20% thermal, your tank goes down to 342/426 respectivly. Then again being able to permanently boost is nice :) I would just be leery of EM heavy missions.

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.20 12:12:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Dacryphile
Originally by: Moonduste

So the question...is there a reason to use a target painter, since the only targets ill be doing bonus damage to would be frigs which is what my tech II drones are for?
You may be surprised, but TPs help apply damage to BSs even. This is easy enough to test. Find a mission where a BS spawns from far away and heads straight for you. If you fire on him, you will see that your damage is the same for every hit. Now cycle your TP on and off and you will see that it helps even with bigger ships. Not enough that I would wait for the TP cycle to finish before firing on a new ship, but since it helps I always use it.



Understood and I appreciate the help but..why. As I understand missile explosion radius is compared to ship signature. If the signature is smaller, it takes a damage cut (also one for speed vs explosion velocity). So if my missile explodes at around 140 meters and the ships signature is 400, why is a target painter helping?


As the math makes sense to me..a target painter wont do anything until the ships signature is less than my missiles explosion. Can you help me see what I'm missing?

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.20 16:28:00 - [109]
 

bump!

(sorry, im very curious about this. I cant find any info that tells me 'target painters raise your damage! (i.e raw damage) just that they increase signature (and there for, damage if thats an issue)).

Regarding some of the above fits.....arnt pithium boosters like...really expensive? Or em I wrong? (At work..cant check). Just curious how unrealistic it would be for me to get one:)


Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.20 16:47:00 - [110]
 

You are forgetting that targets aren't stationary. I paint everything BC and under ( although it's rather overkill for destroyers ), needs a couple less launchers to pop a BC with one on. With good skills it doesn't take much to pop a painted frigate, which saves time if that's all that's left.

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.20 17:07:00 - [111]
 

Edited by: Moonduste on 20/04/2010 17:07:52
Sorry.....still not computing.

As I understand there are 2 factors (beyond resist/damage) with missiles


explosion size vs signature
explosion velocity vs escape velocity

Painters only increase the signature of the target. I do not think it has any barring on them being mobile or not?

Therefor if my explosion size is already less than the signature, my missiles are doing full damage in that respect. The only way for me to deal more damage based on explosion velocity vs escape velocity would be to A) increase my explosion velocity or B) use a webber to decrease the escape velocity of the target.


Edit: Now the painter would have a mild damage increase on cruisers (most are 140-160 sig, vs my explosion size of 165) and a good effect on frigates, but battle cruiser and battle ships I think wouldnt be effected at all.

Doesnt seem that ideal vs say, a shield boost effiency upgrade?

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.20 21:52:00 - [112]
 

Tested it...with and without painters in optimal range of painters against a battle ship; same damage. My damage increased against a cruise by about 200 per volley it seems (need to test more) but I can confirm theres zero different against battle ships. That reinforces what i believed then; if your explosion size is less than their signature, painters will do nothing.

AltimusPrime
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:42:00 - [113]
 

Painters quite frankly suck and are a waste of slot in level 4's (Maybe good on golems)

Just stick to cruise and drones and your all set,

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.20 22:59:00 - [114]
 

Well, the painters do have some effect on cruisers it seems. Im not sure if they are worth it, but if it can save me a volley, that lets me move to the next target.

Then again, if i can squeeze in a booster effiency mod, that would be good to. Basically its 'what to do with my last mid slot' that im working on clarifying here

Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:03:00 - [115]
 

Originally by: Moonduste
Tested it...with and without painters in optimal range of painters against a battle ship; same damage. My damage increased against a cruise by about 200 per volley it seems (need to test more) but I can confirm theres zero different against battle ships. That reinforces what i believed then; if your explosion size is less than their signature, painters will do nothing.


Mm yes, can't remember if painters help negate speed now ( I know a lot less about missiles than turrets ), but no they're not going to help cruise vs battleships, which was never the reason to fit one in the first place. Most l4 ships are *not* battleships.

Dacryphile
Posted - 2010.04.20 23:04:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Moonduste
Tested it...with and without painters in optimal range of painters against a battle ship; same damage. My damage increased against a cruise by about 200 per volley it seems (need to test more) but I can confirm theres zero different against battle ships. That reinforces what i believed then; if your explosion size is less than their signature, painters will do nothing.
Hmm.. Now I'm going to have to test it again. I remember a small damage increase even on larger ships when I cycled the TP.
Originally by: AltimusPrime
Painters quite frankly suck and are a waste of slot in level 4's (Maybe good on golems)

Just stick to cruise and drones and your all set,
If you don't need more tank, then what module would you suggest? Slowing things down with a webber would only work when things are much closer. TP also has the added benefit of being able to draw aggro without firing a shot, which is useful in some mission with huge spawn distances.

AltimusPrime
Posted - 2010.04.21 00:03:00 - [117]
 

I wouldnt want to go ahead and replace a painter/tank depending on the circumstances, its a pointless move unless you want to improve mission running efficiency (Even then that extra volley is probably the time it takes you to refit.)

The ONLY time i would ever use painters is against named cruisers (Like t2) Dire pith blah blah,

Thats the only time you need the aditional dps.

Moonduste
Posted - 2010.04.21 02:02:00 - [118]
 

Me again.

1) Painters dont effect speed, atleast not for missiles. Its all about explosion size vs sig size. VS BC's and BS i already do full damage thanks to my rigors. So this is strictly for killing frigs and cruisers i believe. I'll test it vs some named bc's, if they have a sig sub 165, then itll help.

2) As per fitting, i believe...it would be better to have a shield booster efficiency item. Trick is they take a bunch of cpu. I'll need to free some up just to it one.


Jamie Banks
Quantum Horizons
Posted - 2010.04.21 02:40:00 - [119]
 

Edited by: Jamie Banks on 21/04/2010 02:42:12
Yep, Moonduste is correct with the fact that (generally):

Raven + Rigors = Raven + Rigors + TP

Raven + CCC < Raven + CCC + TP

So if you have rigors, imo don't bother with a TP with cruise missiles.

A Shield boost amplifier will be a good upgrade, but I think you will need to pimp your fitting to fit it. CN BCU's are a good way to boost DPS by a bit and free up some more CPU for fitting the SBA, 2 birds with one stone.

And what is with the entry level mission runner knowing more than the vets, your all getting owned. Kudos to moon for knowing the game.

Von Kapiche
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.21 14:21:00 - [120]
 

I'd rather kill faster than tank more, tbh, even if it is cruisers; and NPC HACs are one of the most annoying rat types, you definitely don't want to be trying to kill those with just drones. Angel BCs are right on the borderline of rigor explosion radius it seems.

I'll freely admit to being a missile noob, and I'm not really interested enough in them to get the last dregs out; I have run a lot of missions in sufficiently efficient Ravens of various sorts though, so I think I can offer some benefit of experience.

Tried Sansha Blockade in the cnr to see if it was a useful alternative to putting up with TD spam; even with the right hardeners bunches of Sansha spawning on your head make giant holes in it ( enough that I'm wondering how well a Nightmare really works ). Ended up taking about as long as the Abaddon given every time I warped out and back to reposition, the next spawn would land in my face.


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