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Syn Callibri
Minmatar
Swag Co.
Sandbox Bullies
Posted - 2010.04.05 18:19:00 - [91]
 

Edited by: Syn Callibri on 05/04/2010 18:20:33
Ummm...point of order here Archbishop whoeveryouare, many of YOUR people painted the Minmatar not only with a single brush...but a single pigment as well..."slavery". It confounds me that the Amarr can enslave a race for hundereds of years and not expect some element to seek retribution in blood. I personally do not subscribe to tBHM doctrine (there are other methods of vengance), but I can understand thier motivation.

Anabella Rella
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.04.05 20:07:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Anabella Rella on 05/04/2010 20:09:57
Originally by: Archbishop

Cowardly actions such as this by those who slink around in the dark plotting murder and mayhem are no surprise. The Bloody Hand family of murderers and their supporters seem to revel in this kind of chaos and despair. The truth is the genetic disposition to violence these Minmatar terrorists have leads them to actions such as this regardless of the reason.

I would dare say if every slave were freed today, every Minmatar returned to Matari space, every Amarrian slaver found guilty of crimes the Bloody Hand would still be out commiting acts such as this. It is in their blood and they would just find another excuse for these acts of murder and mayhem.

If they can't find a legitimate excuse they would just invent one as the anarchists often do. Truth means little to people such as these.

Archbishop



Truth apparently means even less to racist swine such as yourself. How dare you attempt to paint the victims of Amarrian aggression and imperial expansionism as the culprits.

Let me remind you that it was your people who invaded the Matari homeworlds and captured hundreds of millions of peaceful souls who were no threat to the Empire and murdered equal numbers who refused to submit to your "reclaiming". Indeed, we knew nothing of the Empire's existence until the day your golden fleet entered the Pator system and began to systematically destroy our civilization.

It was your people who laid waste to an entire planet, Starkman Prime, and nearly wiped out the Starkmanir as retribution for the killing of a single Amarrian aristocrat and to serve as an object lesson to any who would dare fight against your tyranny.

It was your people who attempted to invade the Jovian homeworlds and "reclaim" them as well, but were thwarted by their superior technology at Vak'Atioth. Again, your people attacked a sovereign nation that posed no threat to the Empire. Thankfully the Jove destroyed most of your war-making ability which greatly hampered your response to my ancestors' uprising and subsequent founding of the modern Republic.

It was your people who subjugated countless races and annihilated numerous cultures including the Ni-Kunni, who now serve as your vassals.

History demonstrates time and time again who are the true terrorists in New Eden. The fact that you claim to be doing the holy work of your god doesn't absolve you of the crime of murdering billions of innocents who were guilty of no crime other than not being born Amarrian.

I didn't support the actions of the Bloody Hands until you so piously spoke out against them and indeed all Matari who fight for freedom Archbishop. Upon reflecting on the crimes committed for millennia by the Amarr I'm now inclined to think that any action designed to stop your ruthless "reclaiming" is justified.

I welcome your hypocritical response, slaver.

*Edit, typo.

Jesmine Kyriel
Amarr
House Kyriel Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.06 10:09:00 - [93]
 

"You are cruel and evil. You have harmed us for generations."

"You are cruel and evil. Because of this, we will harm you for generations."


The sins of the father is not passed down to the son, Republican. Kindly take your wonderful double-standard elsewhere.

In fact, I dare say that, if you want peace, pursuing an eternal war with the Empire is a very poor tactic. Change and reform can not take place under constant gunfire and will in fact require time and willingness. Time and willingness that will not be found on either side of our border so long as this conflict rages.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2010.04.06 10:26:00 - [94]
 

Originally by: Syn Callibri
Edited by: Syn Callibri on 05/04/2010 18:20:33
Ummm...point of order here Archbishop whoeveryouare, many of YOUR people painted the Minmatar not only with a single brush...but a single pigment as well..."slavery". It confounds me that the Amarr can enslave a race for hundereds of years and not expect some element to seek retribution in blood. I personally do not subscribe to tBHM doctrine (there are other methods of vengance), but I can understand thier motivation.


Minmatars aren't enslaved because they're Minmatar, but because they've turned their backs on God.

Those Minmatars who embrace God (such as the Ammatar) are allowed a degree of autonomy. Similarly, members of other races that turned their backs on God (such as the Ealurians, the Udorians and the Ni-Kunni) have in the past been enslaved.

Slavery isn't a racial thing for us - it's a spiritual thing.

Kade Jeekin
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2010.04.06 10:43:00 - [95]
 

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
The sins of the father is not passed down to the son...

With the Amarr Empire, the son continues to practice the sins of the father.
Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
Time and willingness that will not be found on either side of our border so long as this conflict rages.

Then release the slaves, the conflict will cease and a time for negotiation of reparations can begin.

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.06 18:54:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Minmatars aren't enslaved because they're Minmatar, but because they've turned their backs on God.

Those Minmatars who embrace God (such as the Ammatar) are allowed a degree of autonomy. Similarly, members of other races that turned their backs on God (such as the Ealurians, the Udorians and the Ni-Kunni) have in the past been enslaved.

Slavery isn't a racial thing for us - it's a spiritual thing.


True. How many Ni-Kunni are enslaved today? Not many I'd say. And now that the first Minmatar in the empire have reached enlightenment it won't be long until we see Minmatar Holders who own their own slaves. I personally don't agree with the methods of a great many slaveholders, but it's simply false to claim that the Amarrian form of slavery is racist.

Sakura Imoru
Posted - 2010.04.06 20:03:00 - [97]
 

Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
And now that the first Minmatar in the empire have reached enlightenment it won't be long until we see Minmatar Holders who own their own slaves.


Which Minmatar? Do you mean those of 9th generation or higher who, after being set free on Jamyl's orders, took the opportunity to rejoin their Minmatar brothers and sisters in the Republic as soon as they got a seat on a transport to Rens? Yeah, they really have embraced your faith very well, didn't they?

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.06 22:58:00 - [98]
 

Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Which Minmatar? Do you mean those of 9th generation or higher who, after being set free on Jamyl's orders, took the opportunity to rejoin their Minmatar brothers and sisters in the Republic as soon as they got a seat on a transport to Rens? Yeah, they really have embraced your faith very well, didn't they?


Do you really believe that? In case you do, allow me to enlighten you. The vast majority of freed slaves stayed in the Empire, and even though a great many still went to live in the Republic, most of those took their faith with them. I'd say they embraced our faith very well, yes. Perhaps in time they can provide their less fortunate brethren the same service we selflessly gave to them. It would be selfish to keep the glory of our faith to ourselves, after all.

Anabella Rella
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.04.06 23:39:00 - [99]
 

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
"You are cruel and evil. You have harmed us for generations."

"You are cruel and evil. Because of this, we will harm you for generations."


The sins of the father is not passed down to the son, Republican. Kindly take your wonderful double-standard elsewhere.

In fact, I dare say that, if you want peace, pursuing an eternal war with the Empire is a very poor tactic. Change and reform can not take place under constant gunfire and will in fact require time and willingness. Time and willingness that will not be found on either side of our border so long as this conflict rages.



There's no double standard here. Certain parties attempted to paint the victims as the aggressors in this instance and I pointed out why it was offensive to me. I also pointed out who the true terrorists in New Eden are. Would you care to argue against the historical facts I presented?

As for your argument that the cluster should sit back and allow the Empire to change at its glacial pace; hogwash. Tell the billions still suffering daily under Amarrian oppression that they need to wait. Wait for what? The caprice of a future emperor? Will waiting restore the planets and cultures decimated by your people? Will waiting change your theology? Will waiting re-write your scriptures? Will your god suddenly descend from on high and say, "Oops, my bad. I was wrong, the Amarr aren't my chosen people after all. Everyone's equal. That whole enslavement to enlighten thing I don't like. Carry on."?

No thank you. Not for me. I'm not that patient when billions of lives are at stake.

Sakura Imoru
Posted - 2010.04.07 05:29:00 - [100]
 

Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Which Minmatar? Do you mean those of 9th generation or higher who, after being set free on Jamyl's orders, took the opportunity to rejoin their Minmatar brothers and sisters in the Republic as soon as they got a seat on a transport to Rens? Yeah, they really have embraced your faith very well, didn't they?


Do you really believe that? In case you do, allow me to enlighten you. The vast majority of freed slaves stayed in the Empire, and even though a great many still went to live in the Republic, most of those took their faith with them. I'd say they embraced our faith very well, yes. Perhaps in time they can provide their less fortunate brethren the same service we selflessly gave to them. It would be selfish to keep the glory of our faith to ourselves, after all.


Yes, I do believe that. If you'd read the documentary by Scope, "Life After Emancipation", you would know that the former slaves were thrown out by their holders, with nowhere to go, just because they don't want to pay them for their work. That was a major blow even to those who thought highly about their former masters. If it wasn't for the Sisters of EvE and their free transport of former slaves (all of them) into the Republic, the Empire would have a lot of homeless right now.

It seems to me like you do not understand the Matari spirit. The tribe is your family, and because of that they will not stop until all of their brothers and sisters are back home, freed from their tyrannical suppressors and a twisted faith, which allows people to threat others as they were worth less then cattle.

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.07 06:12:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Yes, I do believe that. If you'd read the documentary by Scope, "Life After Emancipation", you would know that the former slaves were thrown out by their holders, with nowhere to go, just because they don't want to pay them for their work. That was a major blow even to those who thought highly about their former masters. If it wasn't for the Sisters of EvE and their free transport of former slaves (all of them) into the Republic, the Empire would have a lot of homeless right now.

It seems to me like you do not understand the Matari spirit. The tribe is your family, and because of that they will not stop until all of their brothers and sisters are back home, freed from their tyrannical suppressors and a twisted faith, which allows people to threat others as they were worth less then cattle.


Yes, I have read that article, and every other associated with the issue. Your interpretation of it is very different than mine though. There is nothing in said article about Holders "throwing out" freed slaves. In fact, the slaves that were freed were of the highest slave castes with the best schooling available to slaves, and I have heard it being referred to as a "brain drain" more than once. It was in our best interest that the slaves remain in the Empire, but we couldn't (and wouldn't) force them to stay (though the majority did).

Plus I don't see how the former slaves would be better off in the comparative squalor of the Republic where it is more likely that they become "homeless" as you call it than in the Empire. There are whole communities of freed slaves that prosper in the Empire who even have their own churches. In other articles I have read about land disputes resulting from the migration and the intolerance and prejudice the immigrants suffer at the hands of their "brethren". If that is the Matari spirit and how they treat "family" I think they were much better off in the Empire.

Sakura Imoru
Posted - 2010.04.07 18:51:00 - [102]
 

Edited by: Sakura Imoru on 07/04/2010 18:55:05
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
Yes, I have read that article, and every other associated with the issue. Your interpretation of it is very different than mine though. There is nothing in said article about Holders "throwing out" freed slaves.


Is that so?

Quote:
When the emancipation order was issued , the corporation released Onyeka’s entire family, forcing them to fend for themselves. [...] ”We were told to leave the workers’ housing, but where are we going to go if there’s nowhere else?” With nowhere to go, the family was forced to take menial service jobs on the station in order to pay for lodging and food. [...] ”We thought life would get better at first,” says Onyeka, ‘But it only got worse.


Sound to me like they did.

Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
In fact, the slaves that were freed were of the highest slave castes with the best schooling available to slaves, and I have heard it being referred to as a "brain drain" more than once. It was in our best interest that the slaves remain in the Empire, but we couldn't (and wouldn't) force them to stay (though the majority did).


The majority stayed? Where you reading the same article, or did ACN changed it for the Empire, so you mustn't feel bad about yourself?

Quote:
In the months following Empress Jamyl’s emancipation announcement, millions of released slaves have made their way to the welcoming arms of the Minmatar Republic.


Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
Plus I don't see how the former slaves would be better off in the comparative squalor of the Republic where it is more likely that they become "homeless" as you call it than in the Empire. There are whole communities of freed slaves that prosper in the Empire who even have their own churches. In other articles I have read about land disputes resulting from the migration and the intolerance and prejudice the immigrants suffer at the hands of their "brethren". If that is the Matari spirit and how they treat "family" I think they were much better off in the Empire.


Land disputes? Where?

Quote:
For the former slaves, the assistance is gratefully accepted. Onyeka Djekatro found herself welcomed like a "long-lost sister," and has received more help than she had expected. "There were many tests," she says. "They wanted to see where my skills are, and there's so much to write! They want to know everything and more." In addition to basic aptitude examinations, all arrivals are given a basic medical scan and inoculations. Interviews are conducted in order to arrange suitable work placement and provide emotional support, if necessary. [...] Unless complications arise, such as medical issues [...], the new arrivals are moved within the first week to housing programs, where they receive further support and work placements or education.


Here you can see how much the Matari are caring for their returning brothers and sisters, giving them every help they need to get accustomed of being free people now.

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.07 20:02:00 - [103]
 

Edited by: Lucius Vindictus on 07/04/2010 20:03:37
Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Quote:
When the emancipation order was issued[...]


That's some nice subjective quoting you did there. We are both obviously biased in oposite directions, so let me counter that quote with some of my own subjective copy-pasting, yes?

Originally by: Sakura Imoru
The majority stayed? Where you reading the same article, or did ACN changed it for the Empire, so you mustn't feel bad about yourself?


Well then, since we both aren't going to believe each other's word and are apparently entering into an article quoting war, let's have a look at some statements:

Originally by: My News article quote
According to the Empress’s announcement, the emancipation extends to every Minmatar slave of ninth generation and up, along with Minmatar academics and religious figures. It is unclear at this time exactly how many slaves are being set free in total, but all experts thus polled so far agree that the number will reach into the hundreds of millions.“That’s going to be between six and seven hundred million slaves,”


That's a lot of slaves!

Originally by: Your News article quote
In the months following Empress Jamyl’s emancipation announcement, millions of released slaves have made their way to the welcoming arms of the Minmatar Republic.


Wait, what happened to the hundreds of millions that you claim migrated to the Republic since obviously they ALL moved there? Did they die on the way? Did they disappear? Surely we would have heard something about it if such a large number went missing? Maybe there is a logical explanation:

Originally by: Yet another News article quote
"If you’re ninth-generation, you, your parents and all the ancestors you know of will have known nothing but the Empire. The Republic is a distant and frightening dream to these people. Where do you think they’re going to go?”


Where indeed? Am I to believe that each one of these hundreds of millions is an adventurous pioneer who will happily risk a journey into uncertainty? I'm sorry, I can't believe you.

Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Land disputes? Where?


How about here and also here?

Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Here you can see how much the Matari are caring for their returning brothers and sisters, giving them every help they need to get accustomed of being free people now.


You may try to marginalize the problems the Republic faces, but the Republic isn't exactly a promised land of milk and honey like you pretend, I'm honestly sorry to say. So long as it's people can't even sustain themselves without foreign aid, how will they properly care for any new freed-slave immigrants? Don't get me wrong, I respect the Minmatar as an independent people with their own sovereign government. The reason I fight isn't to enslave them or to bring them to their destruction. It is my hope that future generations will be at peace, even though it will in all likelihood be a difficult one for many generations to come, even after the last of the slaves have been emancipated.

However to those who harbor black-and-white views and try to soothe their consciences with fairytale's (which ironically Amarrians often get accused of) I feel it is my responsiblity to call them out and wake them up to the harsh reality that is called the real world.

Sakura Imoru
Posted - 2010.04.07 20:37:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Sakura Imoru on 07/04/2010 20:41:39
Originally by: Lucius Vindictus
Wait, what happened to the hundreds of millions that you claim migrated to the Republic since obviously they ALL moved there? Did they die on the way? Did they disappear? Surely we would have heard something about it if such a large number went missing?


If you really had read that documentary carefully you would have noticed that there were so many refugees that the Sister of EvE needed to offer space on their stations in Rens as well in order to just accommodate them. And even then the stations had problems to handle the amount of people coming in.

Quote:
Maybe there is a logical explanation:

Originally by: Yet another News article quote
"If you’re ninth-generation, you, your parents and all the ancestors you know of will have known nothing but the Empire. The Republic is a distant and frightening dream to these people. Where do you think they’re going to go?”


Where indeed? Am I to believe that each one of these hundreds of millions is an adventurous pioneer who will happily risk a journey into uncertainty? I'm sorry, I can't believe you.


That was the original fear just after Jamyl's order. That's why Rens was not prepared as the first transport with freed slaves came in.

Quote:
Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Land disputes? Where?


How about here and also here?


That was after the Elder Fleet's strike against your people. Something that even took the Republic by suprise. They were not at all prepared for the large aammount of refugees after that, at least after the Emancipation the Republic had prepared something, even though the number of refugees took them by surprise again.

Quote:
Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Here you can see how much the Matari are caring for their returning brothers and sisters, giving them every help they need to get accustomed of being free people now.


You may try to marginalize the problems the Republic faces, but the Republic isn't exactly a promised land of milk and honey like you pretend, I'm honestly sorry to say. So long as it's people can't even sustain themselves without foreign aid, how will they properly care for any new freed-slave immigrants?


And why is it, that the Matari can't feed themselves? Oh, wait, because of this. Their worlds are still trying to recover from that and the following raids, turning their planets into dustballs. So once again the Amarr are to blame.

Veronique Devereaux
Posted - 2010.04.07 22:24:00 - [105]
 

Edited by: Veronique Devereaux on 07/04/2010 22:27:07
It seems that there have been secondary explosions in the station. My condoleances to the families of the victims.

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.04.07 22:57:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Sakura Imoru
Well reasoned arguments


The cause for the fledgling Republic's many plights rests for the most part squarely on the shoulders of my people. This latest bombing is another example of how far our peoples are away from a lasting peace. Even after the last slave is emancipated it will be a long road ahead, and I will likely not see that day in my lifetime nor my children in theirs. Though that is a different discussion altogether.

You still haven't accounted for the hundreds of millions that are missing from your equation to my satisfaction. Even all of the SoE stations put together couldn't have harbored such a large amount of people. I doubt that the experts (surely more knowledgeable than you and me both) are so far off the mark. If you insist on believing that each and every freed slave has left the empire, be my guest. I only have to walk the streets in Dam-Torsad to see the truth in front of me.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.04.07 23:22:00 - [107]
 

minmatar,

barbaric till the end of there wretched lives!

may every slave in the Amarr borders get the wrath they deserve, feel the pain that they lost for this act of terrorism that will bring retribution to themselves.

Anabella Rella
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.04.08 05:50:00 - [108]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
minmatar,

barbaric till the end of there wretched lives!

may every slave in the Amarr borders get the wrath they deserve, feel the pain that they lost for this act of terrorism that will bring retribution to themselves.


Amarrians,

Murderers, slavers, racists, usurpers till the end of their wretched lives!

May every imperialist, holder, cleric and vassal in the Amarr borders get the righteous wrath they deserve, feel the pain of those they enslaved and may no one weep for the retribution to be served up by those they subjugated. They brought it upon themselves.

There, fixed that for you. I like my version much better.

Shame on you by the way. Since when do the democratic ideals of the Federation mesh with the totalitarianism of the Empire? As one who was raised in the Federation (where my parents still live) I'm quite distressed to see a Federal citizen spouting such nonsense.

Oh well. Although I strongly disagree with your views, as a member of a free society you have the right to espouse them, no matter how repugnant they may be. Too bad your Amarrian pals don't allow this type of free discourse in the Empire.

Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
Posted - 2010.04.08 10:38:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: Armoured C on 08/04/2010 10:45:31
there is no more pain for the slaves in the amarr border than at home in your own homeworlds. least under amarr rule they have a home, food and a purpose other than your own homeworld where there is nothing but corruption with fighting amongst yourselves.

i used to consider my love for the federation which i held dear, until i believed in the one true lord,

i care not the race i was born but the faith that i hold, i hope one day to join the ranks fighting against these terrorists.

Roderigo Borgia
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2010.04.08 10:55:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: Armoured C
i used to consider my love for the federation which i held dear, until i believed in the one true lord,

i care not the race i was born but the faith that i hold, i hope one day to join the ranks fighting against these terrorists.


OH NOES!!!!!! Its a born again Amarrian!!

Syn Callibri
Minmatar
Swag Co.
Sandbox Bullies
Posted - 2010.04.08 14:03:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Roderigo Borgia
Originally by: Armoured C
i used to consider my love for the federation which i held dear, until i believed in the one true lord,

i care not the race i was born but the faith that i hold, i hope one day to join the ranks fighting against these terrorists.


OH NOES!!!!!! Its a born again Amarrian!!


He wouldn't have to be born again if he had gotten it right the first time...I wonder, can you be born again...again?

Spyra Gryra
Cruoris Seraphim
Exalted.
Posted - 2010.04.08 14:45:00 - [112]
 

Originally by: Anabella Rella
Originally by: Armoured C
minmatar,

barbaric till the end of there wretched lives!

may every slave in the Amarr borders get the wrath they deserve, feel the pain that they lost for this act of terrorism that will bring retribution to themselves.


Amarrians,

Murderers, slavers, racists, usurpers till the end of their wretched lives!

May every imperialist, holder, cleric and vassal in the Amarr borders get the righteous wrath they deserve, feel the pain of those they enslaved and may no one weep for the retribution to be served up by those they subjugated. They brought it upon themselves.

There, fixed that for you. I like my version much better.

Shame on you by the way. Since when do the democratic ideals of the Federation mesh with the totalitarianism of the Empire? As one who was raised in the Federation (where my parents still live) I'm quite distressed to see a Federal citizen spouting such nonsense.

Oh well. Although I strongly disagree with your views, as a member of a free society you have the right to espouse them, no matter how repugnant they may be. Too bad your Amarrian pals don't allow this type of free discourse in the Empire.


I feel it's my duty to take you to a nice spa in Oursulaert and make sure you have a bath, you filthy urchin. Your poor family must be embarrassed at the state of you.

Anabella Rella
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.04.09 18:43:00 - [113]
 

To Spyra:
Nice try. Maybe I will take you up on your invitation though and visit the Empire. Not wanting to be a poor guest I'll happily bring a gift. Would you prefer spiced wine, Republic Fleet EMP rounds, or Caldari Navy Thunderbolt missiles? It's no trouble dear, really, I have plenty to share. See you soon! *air kisses*

To Armored:
Pilot C, my homeworld is Luminaire. You may have heard of it being the capitol of the Federation and all. There's not much squalor or infighting there that I've ever witnessed. As for my newly adopted home of Pator; it's quite a beautiful world. You really should visit it before making such uninformed statements.

As the youngest of the nation-states of New Eden we're still working to build a social/political/technological infrastructure. It's not quite what we'd like it to be, but if we hadn't been held back for hundreds of years due to the meddling of your new masters there's no telling where we'd be by now.


Eran Mintor
Minmatar
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2010.04.10 09:13:00 - [114]
 

Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Eran, what else prompted Ushra'Khan all those years ago to put 1 isk on Midulars head but for the fact we care? Your arguments border on the ridiculous.

Shakor was a rebel who rose to power by over-throwing the embarrassment that was Midular, and now it appears he is becoming like her. For that I am disappointed and hope I'm wrong.

The Amarrians are our enemy. Yours, mine, the Republics, and most importantly our peoples. In fact their way of life is a threat to every non-Amarrian. I have dedicated myself to war against them and will always encourage others to do the same. I live in hope that whoever leads the Republic will do the same.

I'll say as I damn well please and if it incites more violence against the Empire then all the better. I live in hope that one day we will see our people rise.

Death to Amarr.



You care about yourselves, that is clear. You free people, but do you give a damn what happens to them after? No.

Don't try to fool me Karn; I've had too many of my own kin try to slip one past me and I find it insulting you would beguile your own in such a manner.

You think our struggle has only one solution; violence. I question if you even understand the Minmatar struggle.

We don't struggle against the Amarr. Minmatar have shown time and time again that we can defeat the Amarr when we allowed ourselves. Our struggle is against ourselves, and the stubborn ego's that plague many Minmatar minds with romantic promises of war.

It is ironic that most of my disgust with Amarrian's come from a similar prideful attitude, mostly pertaining to their self-declared right of enslaving non-Amarrians, but unless both sides shed this self-destructive way of thinking...genocide of Minmatar and Amarr is the result of which you preach, Karn.

If you want to pretend you give a damn about the millions of lives you throw into the slums back in the Republic, send some of the hoards of ISK you've raided out of Providence back to the people who have nothing when you kidnap them.

You dedicate yourself to war, as you said; not peace. Why should anyone believe you? You kill more than you free, what good do you serve but to keep the fires of hate burning in the Empire?

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.04.10 14:28:00 - [115]
 

I believe Ushra'Khan's continued struggle at ending slavery and freeing our people, no matter the cost, was rather clearly vindicated when the Elders finally acted towards the same ends, after years of secret preparation.
You criticise us for freeing our brethren but not personally ensuring that they then have lives without hardship? What about the huge numbers freed by the Elders' invasion and left to the Republic to deal with, far exceeding their capability to handle at once? Would you criticise our Elders equally?

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2010.04.10 14:37:00 - [116]
 

Don't let Valklear General Mintor's words offend you overmuch. He is passionate and capable and he fights for the right side, but I suspect he's spent too much time listening to Gallente liberals while inebriated in his travels and has come to believe some of the self-serving peacenik garbage they love to spout while their government behaves in another fashion altogether.

I mean, just look at these comments... implying that staying enslaved in the Empire is preferable to dealing with (temporarily) impoverished freedom? That's preposterous. Using the word "kidnapped" which suggests the slavers' ownership of them is rightful to begin with, rather than the more correct and accurate words "liberation" or "repatriation."

Still, like I said, his autocannons point in the right direction and he is quite active in the struggle against the slaver's empire.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.04.10 18:51:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Eran Mintor

You think our struggle has only one solution; violence. I question if you even understand the Minmatar struggle.

Our struggle is against ourselves, and the stubborn ego's that plague many Minmatar minds with romantic promises of war


Comments like these make some of us question your own Brutor tribal heritage.

Pretty sad when an Amarrian needs to remind you of your lack of respect for the warrior ethos.

Originally by: Eran Mintor

hoards of ISK you've raided out of Providence


I don't see anyone getting rich by raiding into Provi. I see pilots scraping together whatever isk they can to buy weapons, ammo and nanite paste to use to bring war to enemies of freedom. And by the way, the fortresses of one of the biggest enemies of freedom are falling as we speak, thanks to true warriors.

Eran Mintor
Minmatar
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2010.04.27 04:32:00 - [118]
 

Quote:
You criticise us for freeing our brethren but not personally ensuring that they then have lives without hardship? What about the huge numbers freed by the Elders' invasion and left to the Republic to deal with, far exceeding their capability to handle at once? Would you criticise our Elders equally?


No life is without hardship. I am merely stating that Ushra'khan have no interest in the lives of their brethren after they are freed. Every man for himself, or something along those lines. Though sometimes I wonder how many of Ushra'khan are in it to free the enslaved, rather than just focused on the destruction of the Providence bloc. To me, U'K is the example of self-destructive thinking the Minmatar people need to avoid.

Quote:
I mean, just look at these comments... implying that staying enslaved in the Empire is preferable to dealing with (temporarily) impoverished freedom? That's preposterous. Using the word "kidnapped" which suggests the slavers' ownership of them is rightful to begin with, rather than the more correct and accurate words "liberation" or "repatriation."


It is sad, but the reality is in some cases that slavery is better than the suffering you face in the slums. Many freedom fighters shoot first and ask questions later. Many slaves are kidnapped, because even though they are slaves, they are already so assimilated they have no desire to return to the Republic. How do we differ ourselves from the Amarr if we claim ownership to these people much like they do?

Quote:
Comments like these make some of us question your own Brutor tribal heritage. Pretty sad when an Amarrian needs to remind you of your lack of respect for the warrior ethos.


You don't need to remind me of anything, Amarrian. I find this quite humorous to come from you. Go ahead and question my heritage, the records are public. Being Brutor does not mean you are bloodthirsty. It is the stereotype you yourself present that I fight against. My people were never originally warriors. Long ago before Amarrian intercession we were peaceful. It is since then that things have changed and people have re-written history.

Quote:
I don't see anyone getting rich by raiding into Provi. I see pilots scraping together whatever isk they can to buy weapons, ammo and nanite paste to use to bring war to enemies of freedom. And by the way, the fortresses of one of the biggest enemies of freedom are falling as we speak, thanks to true warriors.


I find this hard to believe. Those stations contain a great amount of wealth as do those people who lived in the land you've plundered for years. If you squander all your ISK on war, like the Republic squandered their Gallente aid on war materials then that is your choice. Do not say you are not making profit.

Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.04.27 06:35:00 - [119]
 

So Eran, how did it feel the other day when you... oh.. joined a paramilitary unit attached to the 24th Imperial Crusade? How eager were you to swear that oath to protect the Amarr Empire and uphold it's values?

I suppose by your logic in order to save ourselves from becoming overwhelmed by our warrior drive, all who oppose the Empire should surrender and swear oaths of fealty to the witch Jamyl so we may avoid all future bloodshed.

Ithiria Deritan
Amarr
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.04.27 07:39:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Ithiria Deritan on 27/04/2010 07:39:02
Alright this Talk has gone a little ways off topic I think, and I pray for the fallen members, be they holder, freeman, or slave alike, even now I pray for them.

To those Condemning Slavery, Good for you for standing up for what you think is right. might not be right but you are entitled to your opinions.

But throughout this all, and listening and reading this typical Rhetoric coming from those trying to "Free" slaves to those defending the right to slavery. One thing comes to mind, a speech from one of our Ambassadors to the Concord Council.

"In Amarr No one is denied the just rewards of a Full day's work. There is abundant food on the table of every Man woman and child within our borders. We provide spiritual fulfillment and strengthen family bonds, regardless of social status"

Now, I have never heard, the state, republic or federation say anything along these lines, and I will admit, that perhaps there are some places within the empire this does not happen, but unlike the republic, we do feed everyone and can. We do allow family bonds to be strengthened. And we will lead people to spiritual fulfillment.



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