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Katy Moore
Amarr
J. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
Posted - 2010.03.26 01:54:00 - [31]
 

It is 25j from Pashanai to Avair, the Theology Council HQ station.
Why was Mervan Moritok so far away?

There may be a lot more that meets the eye here.

Evanda Char
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.03.26 02:20:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Scagga Laebetrovo
I disapprove of the involvement of foreigners in the relief efforts. Their true motives are questionable at best.


You're a foreigner to them, Scagga.

You're livestock. You knew that once.

Ember Vykos
Caldari
Ghost Festival
Naraka.
Posted - 2010.03.26 03:03:00 - [33]
 

My condolences to the families of those lost in this attack. If there is anything I can do to aid in the relief efforts feel free to ask.

Eran Mintor
Minmatar
Knighthood of the Merciful Crown
Posted - 2010.03.26 03:49:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Karn Mithralia
Good news indeed.

I'm a little concerned to read of Shakor denouncing the attack, has he forgotten who his enemies are so soon?

We can probably sc**** together another 1 isk if so.



Concerned? About Shakor? About the Republic?

Last I checked, Ushra'Khan didn't give a damn about empire-space politics. When the Minmatar militia was fighting piracy from one of Ushra'Khan's allies in Amamake, Ushra'Khan stated they were not concerned with events outside their field of operation.

As I understood, Ushra'Khan separated itself from the Republic so it could carve it's own path. That is your right, and look at how far you have come. Now you have your own troubles learning the details of governance and politics.

Yet here is Karn Mithralia, a leader of the Ushra'Khan stating that he knows best how the Republic should be governed!

Who do you think you really are? Have your victories in Providence numbed your mind so much you feel you can reach outside your boundaries to play with other's lives?

The terrorist organization of Ushra'Khan has harbored many similar beliefs as tBHM. Both are pessimists who see themselves as realists. Yet the blood you spill is not your own, so what do you really know of these conflicts you create? The beginnings of The Bloody Hands of Matar was only two years and a few months ago during the Dober Harn riots; one of many instances of Minmatar stepping on their own feet.

These riots were inspired by Ushra'Khan's '1 ISK for Midular' slogan; a symbol of the significance Midular held in the hearts of this null-sec terrorist band.

I imagine you and yours are quite proud that others listen to your rhetoric. To me, it only provides another instance of the Minmatar problem; that for every step we take forward, another man who has his own self-righteous vision of the "way things should be" pushes us two steps back.

The Bloody Hands of Matar are not only responsible for attacks on Amarr and Ammatar, but their very beginning targeted those Minmatar living and operating in their own homes and businesses!

Let's go back to YC 109, May 23rd. The week before my birthday; I was back home with my family on the Core Complexion station in Yrmori. My cousin, niece, and I went down to the main floor that night to go one of our favorites clubs, when sirens sounded off and the RSS posted on the station assembled in every access corridor shrouded in riot gear. My family and I had no idea what was going on, but were told to move back to our homes and secure all entry points. Any man or woman who didn't comply was restrained and taken away.

It wasn't until the next morning when I read this from my neo-com and I understood: Linkage

I know you don't represent the majority of Minmatar, Karn, but please know you have people who look up to you here, and even though you are removed from the people back home, you are still capable of misguiding it's residents.

Know your boundaries.

To all those innocent victims of the attacks yesterday, you have my sincerest condolences.

Lucius Vindictus
Amarr
East Khanid Trading
Khanid Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2010.03.26 04:27:00 - [35]
 

Eran Mintor,

Despite the fact that our corporations must fight each other I respect you and the warriors of the Valklear Guard as honorable foes. It is good to see that there are Minmatar who will listen to reason and who have some humanity left.

Silas Vitalia
Khanid Provincial Vanguard
Vanguard Imperium
Posted - 2010.03.26 04:32:00 - [36]
 

I offer my condolances to all of the civilian victims of this attack, may their souls be at rest.


Leopold Caine
Amarr
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2010.03.26 06:56:00 - [37]
 

I thought we have been past this, but it seems hatred blinds men hearts more than I'd expect.
It's good to see mr. Mintor to keep enough respect and a cool head, however.

I offer my sincere condolences to the victims families and friends in this tragedy, and will do my best on the behalf of Stillwater to coordinate our relief efforts with other humanitarian forces in the area.

God have mercy on poor souls.

Gottii
Minmatar
Lutinari Syndicate
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.03.26 07:15:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: Gottii on 26/03/2010 07:19:09
Like others have mentioned, I'm guessing the "Bloody Hand of Matar" is nothing but a glove covering the bloody, cloned hand of an Empress.

It's quite efficient; eliminate a political rival, cow the rest of the Theological Council, harden domestic resentment against your enemies, and bask in international condolences and well-wishes from across the cluster, all in one tick of a demo timer.

Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.03.26 07:28:00 - [39]
 

Eran, what else prompted Ushra'Khan all those years ago to put 1 isk on Midulars head but for the fact we care? Your arguments border on the ridiculous.

Shakor was a rebel who rose to power by over-throwing the embarrassment that was Midular, and now it appears he is becoming like her. For that I am disappointed and hope I'm wrong.

The Amarrians are our enemy. Yours, mine, the Republics, and most importantly our peoples. In fact their way of life is a threat to every non-Amarrian. I have dedicated myself to war against them and will always encourage others to do the same. I live in hope that whoever leads the Republic will do the same.

I'll say as I damn well please and if it incites more violence against the Empire then all the better. I live in hope that one day we will see our people rise.

Death to Amarr.

Myyona
Minmatar
Ataraxia Pharmacies
Posted - 2010.03.26 09:58:00 - [40]
 

Ah, more actions of barbarism from my kin. How pleasant to wake up to.

I guess this is other example of the Brutor "might makes right" philosophy? Midularn was far from an embarrassment. She tried to keep a cool and level head against a raging flock of hormonal bulls ,that see red everywhere, and support those that the stampede has left behind or written off as acceptable sacrifices. It is so, so easy to be the master of life and death when it is not your life that is on the line, but somebody else's, powerless to stop you. Hypocritical capsuleers are the worst.

I do not agree to being master of others destiny; that makes us no different from the Amarr. I do not want to save those that do not want to be saved. And I do not want to provide them a life of misery because the only thing I know of is destruction.

I expect the only reason why Shakor is not running around after red flags is because he is blind.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.26 12:28:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Stitcher on 26/03/2010 12:35:11
Originally by: Gottii
Like others have mentioned, I'm guessing the "Bloody Hand of Matar" is nothing but a glove covering the bloody, cloned hand of an Empress.

It's quite efficient; eliminate a political rival, cow the rest of the Theological Council, harden domestic resentment against your enemies, and bask in international condolences and well-wishes from across the cluster, all in one tick of a demo timer.


So you'd rather try and claim this is a cold-hearted political ploy by the Empress than accept that it might just be what it appears to be - namely a hot-blooded act of terrorism by a known terrorist organisation.

One scenario requires the Empress be more concerned with her own political position than the well-being of her Empire. Considering that I can find no public source that suggests that Moritok was a particularly outspoken political enemy of Her Majesty, and that from what I can gather her political strength about as secure as an Emperor's may be... I don't buy it.

The other explanation requires that a known terrorist organization with an extreme anti-Amarr ethic planted a bomb and killed a high-ranking Imperial official without regard for the propaganda consequences. Just because this attack feeds a lot of good material to the Amarrian spin doctors does not automatically equate to it being an Amarrian plot designed to keep their populace immersed in a culture of fear. Terrorists aren't exactly renowned for their talents at rational thought and properly weighing the consequences of their actions.

Besides, the Imperial message as I read it is "God is on our side, we cannot fail to correct the heathens". Somehow, it doesn't seem like "The Minmatar will murder us all in our beds!" is a message that will mesh well with the first one. It's counter-productive to the existing propaganda.

Call me stupid, but I think I'm going to take this one at face value. If you'd rather be in denial about the evil and stupidity some Matari are capable of perpetrating, that's your own problem

Karn Mithralia
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.03.26 12:31:00 - [42]
 

Edited by: Karn Mithralia on 26/03/2010 12:33:21

I am one of the most cool and level-headed people you will meet pilot Myyona, ask my friends, hell, ask my enemies.

But I am not a pacifist, a peace-maker, an appeaser. I am a warrior, I make war, I would see all our people make war.

For one simple fact stands that bigots who fear to fight miss:

The Amarr still enslave us.

Rise!

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.26 12:40:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Karn Mithralia
The Amarr still enslave us.


They enslave themselves, too. They also enslave Caldari and Gallente and... well, damn near anyone.

In fairness, the Amarr are equal-opportunity slavers.

Andreus LeHane
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2010.03.26 13:14:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
One scenario requires the Empress be more concerned with her own political position than the well-being of her Empire.


With respect, old friend, you never seem to have trouble believing that about Roden, Heth or Shakor. Why should it come as a massive surprise to you that the Amarr, well versed - even among the four factions - in saying one thing and doing quite another, are no different?

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2010.03.26 13:19:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
In fairness, the Amarr are equal-opportunity slavers.


And that somehow makes it all right?

Ushra'khan fights for freedom of ALL slaves. And we all know who the majority of the slaves are.

Lord Maximullis
Amarr
Stillwater Corporation
Posted - 2010.03.26 13:37:00 - [46]
 

Excellent news!

The Loyalists will pay in blood for their crimes, there are no innocents in this war.

Libertas Victor

Kade Jeekin
Kinda'Shujaa
Posted - 2010.03.26 14:10:00 - [47]
 

As long as their is institutional enslavement of the Minmatar people by the Amarrian state, all it's institutions are under threat of violence. It can no more be controlled than lightning that strikes from a storm cloud.

Some strikes are grand in design, such as the Elder's liberation of the remaining Starkmanir, the see-saw of occupation in the Bleak Lands and Devoid, and Ushra'Khan's campaign against CVA's Deliverance. In these actions hundred's of thousands of people are killed.

The Bloody Hands of Matar do not have the resources of the Elders, nor of the capsuleers. Their actions must therefore be more brutal and immediate. The death toll occurs in an instant and so is more shocking.

But we must stand firm. The Elders, the Minmatar Militia, the Bloody Hands of Matar, and Ushra'Khan will continue to prosecute their wars against Amarrian Imperialism and for the freedom of the Minmatar people.

For those of you who don't wish for more people to die. Do what you must. Let our people go.

Gemma Naquist
Kuomi Logistics
Posted - 2010.03.26 14:32:00 - [48]
 

This is funny.

Half the Minmatar here support this terrorist attack and the other, perhaps wiser ones are so very quick to dump their friends in Bloody Hands and disavow any knowledge. Still others are trying to cast blame on elements within the Imperial Government because they know how bad the Imperial retribution is going to be.

Your own responses to this are almost as shameful as the act itself.

Eran Mintor is the only one of you with class and maturity and honor. You would do well to learn by his example.


Jesmine Kyriel
Amarr
House Kyriel Inc.
Posted - 2010.03.26 14:39:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Kade Jeekin
As long as their is institutional enslavement of the Minmatar people by the Amarrian state, all it's institutions are under threat of violence. It can no more be controlled than lightning that strikes from a storm cloud.

Some strikes are grand in design, such as the Elder's liberation of the remaining Starkmanir, the see-saw of occupation in the Bleak Lands and Devoid, and Ushra'Khan's campaign against CVA's Deliverance. In these actions hundred's of thousands of people are killed.

The Bloody Hands of Matar do not have the resources of the Elders, nor of the capsuleers. Their actions must therefore be more brutal and immediate. The death toll occurs in an instant and so is more shocking.

But we must stand firm. The Elders, the Minmatar Militia, the Bloody Hands of Matar, and Ushra'Khan will continue to prosecute their wars against Amarrian Imperialism and for the freedom of the Minmatar people.

For those of you who don't wish for more people to die. Do what you must. Let our people go.


I wonder when an organization will stand firm and denounce Angel Cartel slavery and assault Cartel operations and bases all over the cluster.

I wonder when, if ever, the hardliner-Minmatar as yourself will stop your wishfull thinking that somehow, killing our people in whatever grandiose or sudden fasion you design will make us surrender our way of life.

You may hate it, you may be right in your beliefs, but this is our way. The theology council, The Empress, HOLY GOD, has decreed how we are to live. Slaves exist to be assimilated into our society. When there is no more slaves, the universe will be at peace.

Oppose this all you want. It is your way after all and only logical. If you stormed into my house, abducted my kin and told me it was for our own good, I'd seek to stop you too.

There are ways this seemingly never-ending sircle can end peaceably. That however will never happend long as people delude themselves that, the way of the gun is the only option.

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.03.26 14:43:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

I wonder when an organization will stand firm and denounce Angel Cartel slavery and assault Cartel operations and bases all over the cluster.


Thousands of capsuleers seeking CONCORD bounties launch devastating attacks against the Angels all the time. It comes down to those of us who are motivated by principle rather than ISK to attack slaving entities without such enticements.

Jesmine Kyriel
Amarr
House Kyriel Inc.
Posted - 2010.03.26 15:08:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Borza Slavak
Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

I wonder when an organization will stand firm and denounce Angel Cartel slavery and assault Cartel operations and bases all over the cluster.


Thousands of capsuleers seeking CONCORD bounties launch devastating attacks against the Angels all the time. It comes down to those of us who are motivated by principle rather than ISK to attack slaving entities without such enticements.


Their ships are destroyed, their crews killed, their bases raided... and how many slaves are freed, again?

What people do is merely hurting the Cartel's wallet a little. People are assets to them. Slaves, merely tools, free labor to be expoited, sold, bartered around, used. Few if any free any cartel slave. Can you name even one group? What capsuleers do all over the cluster would be comparable with 'freeing slaves' by hunting down Imperial Navy ships across the Empire.

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.03.26 15:30:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel
Originally by: Borza Slavak
Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel

I wonder when an organization will stand firm and denounce Angel Cartel slavery and assault Cartel operations and bases all over the cluster.


Thousands of capsuleers seeking CONCORD bounties launch devastating attacks against the Angels all the time. It comes down to those of us who are motivated by principle rather than ISK to attack slaving entities without such enticements.


Their ships are destroyed, their crews killed, their bases raided... and how many slaves are freed, again?

What people do is merely hurting the Cartel's wallet a little. People are assets to them. Slaves, merely tools, free labor to be expoited, sold, bartered around, used. Few if any free any cartel slave. Can you name even one group? What capsuleers do all over the cluster would be comparable with 'freeing slaves' by hunting down Imperial Navy ships across the Empire.



I've rescued slaves when fighting Angels before, I would be surprised if I was the only one. Besides, the Imperial Navy comparison is flawed, Amarr doesn't currently use their naval ships as their primary method of acquiring new slaves, with the Angels their combat ships are often the means by which they seize persons to be enslaved.
Therefore destroying Angel ships is an effective means of reducing their slaving capability, to a far greater extent than with Navy ships and the Amarr.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.26 16:05:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Andreus LeHane
With respect, old friend, you never seem to have trouble believing that about Roden, Heth or Shakor. Why should it come as a massive surprise to you that the Amarr, well versed - even among the four factions - in saying one thing and doing quite another, are no different?


Oh please. Those men may be a lot of things but I'd never believe them - even Roden - to be capable of carrying out a crime on the people they serve and lead.

My objections to Heth are purely political, based on a conservative opinion that he represents a centralizing element that we don't want in the State. But I don't for a second believe that he's a terrorist. Hell, during the Armour Forge riots he went out of his way to avoid any more bloodshed than was entirely necessary.

Still, there are such things as Caldari terrorists. They blew up Nouvelle Rouvenor. They were idiots whose actions ultimately resulted in the forcible eviction of the Caldari from our homeworld. They shamed their ancestors, their families and their corporations by carrying out that attack, and to this day membership in the Templis Dragonaurs is a crime against the State.

That's the difference here. When Caldari commit atrocities, those of us who weren't involved still accept some measure of the responsibility. we don't fabricate conspiracy theories to try and suggest that the injured party may actually be the wrong-doers. That would just be dishonest and cowardly.

Andreus LeHane
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2010.03.26 16:09:00 - [54]
 

"The Matari spirit is an indomitable fire. Be sure when fanning those flames that you do not burn this world of ours down. Seeds cannot grow in a soil of ash."

- "The Elder’s Tome", Matari Chronicles

Borza Slavak
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2010.03.26 16:11:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Stitcher

That's the difference here. When Caldari commit atrocities, those of us who weren't involved still accept some measure of the responsibility. we don't fabricate conspiracy theories to try and suggest that the injured party may actually be the wrong-doers. That would just be dishonest and cowardly.


The difference is that bombing a military station isn't quite the same thing as indiscriminately killing civilians. Even if non-enlisted personnel were present on the Pashanai Ministry of War Bureau station I'm quite certain anyone close enough to Moritok to have been caught in the blast was well vetted and a proven Amarrian loyalist.

Andreus LeHane
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2010.03.26 16:17:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
Oh please. Those men may be a lot of things but I'd never believe them - even Roden - to be capable of carrying out a crime on the people they serve and lead.


Then I must say something that I never thought I'd say about you, Verin - you're too naive and trusting. People in power desire one thing and one thing alone - more of it. Roden is a thoroughly unscrupulous man - as, unfortunately, one really must be if one wants to rule the Federation - and if I can believe that he's capable of such acts, I fail to see why you cannot. Heth, Sarum and Shakor are really no different. I was not necessarily agreeing with the conspiracy theory, but I am saying that it is by no means as out of the question as you would like to believe.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.26 16:39:00 - [57]
 

It is equally naive to assume that a head of state will stop at nothing to gather power as it is to assume that they will not.

Like I said - I don't inherently trust any of them, but then again I can count the number of people in this cluster that I genuinely trust on three fingers. but I do think that none of them would be sufficiently stupid or sufficiently heedless of consequence to attempt something like this. Not when there are subtler, more efficient and safer tools in their arsenals. Power is an end, but the means to attain it can easily backfire and take everything away. The heads of state didn't get where they are without understanding that fact.

Caellach Marellus
Gallente
Nephtys Ventures inc
Posted - 2010.03.26 17:08:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Caellach Marellus on 26/03/2010 17:08:49
Well if the conspiracy theories ever needed more weight here it is I suppose.

Interesting how she cancelled so late, almost too late for him to leave I guess. It'd be foolish to ignore it, as much so as it would be to label it damning proof. But it's worth an eyebrow raised over.

Lyris Nairn
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2010.03.26 17:08:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Stitcher
It is equally naive to assume that a head of state will stop at nothing to gather power as it is to assume that they will not.

Like I said - I don't inherently trust any of them, but then again I can count the number of people in this cluster that I genuinely trust on three fingers. but I do think that none of them would be sufficiently stupid or sufficiently heedless of consequence to attempt something like this. Not when there are subtler, more efficient and safer tools in their arsenals. Power is an end, but the means to attain it can easily backfire and take everything away. The heads of state didn't get where they are without understanding that fact.


That is a very interesting perspective. I have always seen Power as a means. That's not to say that I don't also see it as an end, but that I never mentally separated the two.

Fatima Assani
Minmatar
Grid Square Removal System
Draconian Protection Syndicate
Posted - 2010.03.26 20:51:00 - [60]
 

I wish to offer my sincerest, deepest condolences to everyone who has been affected by the horrible tragedy of Pashanai.

This is a barbaric act of cruelty that should be and, I believe, will be condemned by every compassionate Minmatar and Amarrian alike.

The Bloody Hands of Matar have done nothing but butchered innocent civilians. Hatred and violence are their ways, everything they know. I am surprised and relieved that the so-called "Sanmatar" Shakor has stepped up and condemned this monstrous act of brutality.

If we ever wish to see our brothers and sisters free and have a lasting peace between the Republic and the Empire, the killing must stop, now. Not "tomorrow", not "as soon as X happens" -- but now.

Also, I would like to express my gratitude to those capsuleers who have already participated in the humanitarian work in Pashanai.


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