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Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.24 07:09:00 - [61]
 

Do away with the learning skills, and at what speed would 'old' people train? I invested a whole lot of time so I can finally train Perception + Willpower at 2772 sp/h. I earnt that. Okay then, so how fast may noobs train then in a system without learning skills? In fact, forget noobs; at what training speed will we ALL be training in this brave new world? Like 2,000 or some such? Or all max, at 2772 sp/h? Do the latter, and people like yours truly might frown a bit seeing newbies get what we had to invest months for to reach. Yet do the former, drop everyone in speed, and I would likely be more upset even, because it would mean a significant cut in my next yearplan and all to come. In that scenario people who trained learning skills would be severely penalized for having done so. That's the dilemma I see.

In my estimation, the single most severe drawback of the learning skill scheme is actually not the training time, but that you'll lose your expensive +5 cybernetic attribute implants when you die. I watched videos from CCP, where you see a dev saying things like: "We wish people would PVP more. Just don't be afraid to die!" Well, that's cute and all, but, pardon my French, also complete bullocks. Maybe the devs have an infinite amount of ISK, but I don't. I spent 600mil+ on my learning implants alone, and simply can't afford to lose that kinda money on a regular basis.

Now, please, don't let this derail into a grandstanding fest, where every pirate and his uncle comes out to tell the carebears that we're all wusses and should just get over it, or don't know how to play the game right, etc. I will gladly exchange thoughts on that with people some other time. For now, I just want to state it, as a simple matter of fact, that the way the learning skill system is setup, the risk of losing your expensive implants runs very counter to people actually getting out there and fight.

So, my suggestion is simple: get rid of learning implants, and just add +5 to all players' attributes. That would really take away a huge barrier for newbies to go and explore PVP. Nobody minds losing a ship ("Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."). But with a near mandatory +5 set of learning implants in your head, you can't exactly afford to lose yourself, either. So people stay religiously in high-sec, training, impatiently waiting it out until the day when they can finally get rid of their +5 set, after two years or so, when they can fly most things they wanted, and can finally go to low-sec.

Yes, I know about jumpclones. But the 1x per 24 hours limit is rather prohibitive to many folks too. Even if the actual effect of using +3's for a day is negligible, psychologically it isn't; and, if you need to PVP on a fairly daily basis, then it *does* add up. Setting that to 2x per 24 hours, for example, would already be a huge relief to many. That way you could temporarily leave your highspeed learning track, PVP for a few hours, and jump back. But the best solution, to me, is really to dissociate learning speed from implants. New people are already way bogged down by the learning system as it is.

Corcyrus Endymion
Caldari
Elder Tribes
Posted - 2010.04.24 08:17:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Ranka Mei
Do away with the learning skills, and at what speed would 'old' people train? I invested a whole lot of time so I can finally train Perception + Willpower at 2772 sp/h. I earnt that. Okay then, so how fast may noobs train then in a system without learning skills? In fact, forget noobs; at what training speed will we ALL be training in this brave new world? Like 2,000 or some such? Or all max, at 2772 sp/h? Do the latter, and people like yours truly might frown a bit seeing newbies get what we had to invest months for to reach. Yet do the former, drop everyone in speed, and I would likely be more upset even, because it would mean a significant cut in my next yearplan and all to come. In that scenario people who trained learning skills would be severely penalized for having done so. That's the dilemma I see.

In my estimation, the single most severe drawback of the learning skill scheme is actually not the training time, but that you'll lose your expensive +5 cybernetic attribute implants when you die. I watched videos from CCP, where you see a dev saying things like: "We wish people would PVP more. Just don't be afraid to die!" Well, that's cute and all, but, pardon my French, also complete bullocks. Maybe the devs have an infinite amount of ISK, but I don't. I spent 600mil+ on my learning implants alone, and simply can't afford to lose that kinda money on a regular basis.

Now, please, don't let this derail into a grandstanding fest, where every pirate and his uncle comes out to tell the carebears that we're all wusses and should just get over it, or don't know how to play the game right, etc. I will gladly exchange thoughts on that with people some other time. For now, I just want to state it, as a simple matter of fact, that the way the learning skill system is setup, the risk of losing your expensive implants runs very counter to people actually getting out there and fight.

So, my suggestion is simple: get rid of learning implants, and just add +5 to all players' attributes. That would really take away a huge barrier for newbies to go and explore PVP. Nobody minds losing a ship ("Don't fly what you can't afford to lose."). But with a near mandatory +5 set of learning implants in your head, you can't exactly afford to lose yourself, either. So people stay religiously in high-sec, training, impatiently waiting it out until the day when they can finally get rid of their +5 set, after two years or so, when they can fly most things they wanted, and can finally go to low-sec.

Yes, I know about jumpclones. But the 1x per 24 hours limit is rather prohibitive to many folks too. Even if the actual effect of using +3's for a day is negligible, psychologically it isn't; and, if you need to PVP on a fairly daily basis, then it *does* add up. Setting that to 2x per 24 hours, for example, would already be a huge relief to many. That way you could temporarily leave your highspeed learning track, PVP for a few hours, and jump back. But the best solution, to me, is really to dissociate learning speed from implants. New people are already way bogged down by the learning system as it is.


Just as it means effort to get the learning skills to V, it also means effort to buy those +5 implants. Why remove them? Why spoon feed the whole "Gieb-Epics-Noaw" crowd?

You make the effort to get +5 learning skills. Yes it's basically nothing more than just waiting, but the same goes for pretty much all grinding for something in any MMO. There is also NO barrier of entry for anyone, everyone can do exactly the same and just go for +5 learning.

Don't fix what is definitely not broken.

koca
Posted - 2010.04.24 09:02:00 - [63]
 

I'm a good few years old, i have adv learning's to V except and will and charisma and i can see both sides of the coin here. I have read a number of threads like this over the years and almost feel deflated every time i see a new one pop up.

Yes it would be nice to remove learning skills and distribute skill points elsewhere, however you don't have to train Adv skills to V as pointed out many times before. Personally I semi enjoyed training leaning skills back in the day, it was a nice challenge to get them to a level where I'd be happy, whilst balancing other important skills at a level where I'd would be happy, i.e. afterburner/racial frigate/racial cruiser/electronics/engineering and so on.

That said there wasn't adv skills when i was new, but there wasn't as much help back then. I remember fumbling around in the dark for a long time. These days we have some good forums guides, skill planners like eve-mon and the new tutorial system brought in some time ago, to help me direct and get the best from a character.

Eve does have a steep learning curve and the skills can hold you back. I did quit the first time i played, but only to give it another try 6 months later and I'm still here 6 years on with still more skills to learn, but this is what keeps me in game.... there's always a goal.

I'm all up for supporting newer players as it is a lot to get your head around, so +1 vote for a new character starting with 4/3 to learning skills on top of what they all ready have. I'd be happy for this i wouldn't feel gimped and I'll give it a +2 vote if i never see a remove learning skills thread again1

Ranka Mei
Caldari
Posted - 2010.04.24 09:10:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Corcyrus Endymion
Just as it means effort to get the learning skills to V, it also means effort to buy those +5 implants. Why remove them?

Because you're not done after training Cybernetics V for the learning implants: it's a gift that keeps on giving. :)

Quote:
You make the effort to get +5 learning skills. Yes it's basically nothing more than just waiting, but the same goes for pretty much all grinding for something in any MMO.

I didn't mind grinding the 10 days or so it took to get there; but afterwards this skill keeps hanging around your neck, like a millstone, constantly handicapping your desire to go pew-pew, because of those stupid learning implants. My point was that the burden of having to do the learning skills is, by itself, already heavy enough. No need in letting people suffer the aftermath of them for another two year or so as well.

So Sensational
Ministry of War
Posted - 2010.04.24 14:59:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Viggen
I'd be happy if they removed all the learning skills, and gave +10 to base attributes.
But only if they let me reallocate the 5,376,000 SP's I've invested into learning to wherever I liked Cool


+1

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.04.25 07:55:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Ravenal
The main problem is:
- 29 base attribute points
- 50 learning attribute points
- 25 implant attribute points

You can almost double your skill training rate with implants alone and almost triple it with learning skills.

Total attribute points (ignoring the learning skill itself) = 104, of which 29/104 = 27% are base points.

So, almost x4 training time by going max learning and implants. That much of a boost is too hard to ignore. So, what to do?

Triple the base attribute points = 87 base points (95.7 with learning lvl5)
Change the learning skills to +x%
This will give you an average attribute score of 87/5 = 17.4 (19.14 with learning) at min/max +5 you have and attribute range of 12.4 to 22.4 (14.14 - 24.14) before the attribute learning skills.

So, learning skills +x%
x=1
5%*5% = 10.25% which gives attribute range of:
13.64 - 24.64 (15.55 - 26.55) ... not enough
x=2
10%*10% = 21% which gives attribute range of:
15 - 27.1 (17.1 - 29.2) ... close
x=3
15%*15% = 32.25%
16.4 - 29.6 (18.7 - 31.9) ... or 126.6 total points, which is about the same as we have now with all learning and +5s

The big difference is 87/126.6 = 68.7% ... more than two thirds of training time is covered by base attribute points.

... there, I said it again! Somebody listen now.


ahem, At first I thought it was just a spelling mistake but your entire argument seems to be based on this:

29 base attribute points?

it's 39

Also using implants to make the gap look bigger makes your numbers even more out of wack. Unless you are suggesting we remove all implants as well as all learning skills leave them out of it.

Bimjo
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2010.04.25 12:12:00 - [67]
 

CCP should listen to the good master skillsman , the Doctor, /signed Razz

either way I don't care, gimme back my SP if you take them away, or let me keep my 5/5YARRRR!!

Jasdemi
Interstellar Whine Brewery
Monocle Overlords
Posted - 2010.04.25 12:15:00 - [68]
 

Stop wasting your typing power. Not like it's ever gonna happen or something.

Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.04.25 13:07:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
This whole discussion (not just the thread but the general idea of training skills being 'required') is based on the concept that, for some reason, training a little slower than the other guys puts one at 'a disadvantage'. It really is a bummer how you can 'lose' at EVE by taking 4 extra days to finish off Recon V :(


Ah... let's put it this way. According to Evemon,

New character with optimized attributes:
* ~89 days to train to Recon Ship V.
* Recon Ship IV to V takes ~50 days.

New character with 4/3 learning skills with optimized attributes:
* ~62 days to train to Recon Ship V (27 day improvement)
* Recon Ship IV to V takes ~28 days. (22 day improvement)

A week's worth of learning skills saves nearly a month of time, but only if you sit on your hands for the first week and train learning skills.



Nice fallacy. You're ignoring the possibility of, say, spending 50% of the first two weeks training learning skills and spending the other 50% on training stuff you can use right away.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2010.04.25 16:42:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 25/04/2010 16:43:25

Originally by: Pheusia

Nice fallacy. You're ignoring the possibility of, say, spending 50% of the first two weeks training learning skills and spending the other 50% on training stuff you can use right away.


You're missing the point. Slapchop implied that the time savings provided by the learning skills was paltry (only saving four days.) I provided a counter example and ran the numbers for 4/3 learning skills through EveMon and saved 27 days.


Chaos Dreams
Posted - 2010.04.26 06:00:00 - [71]
 

I agree with the suggestion that learning skills should be added to the list of skills for starter characters. If a new character started with 4/3 in their learnings it would give them a good start, but still leaves them far from 'perfect' so they have plenty of reason to improve them... Later on.

For those new characters who are, in fact, new players trying the game out it would let them actually try the game out. They could train what interests them, and not have to worry about everyone telling them they should spend their first few weeks training learning skills which give no noticeable, immediate improvement to their playing experience.

Let them start off training ship and gun skills, and other things that'll let them have fun. Then they'll be more likely to stick around and can concentrate on learning and such down the road.

Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
Posted - 2010.04.26 16:24:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Edited by: stoicfaux on 25/04/2010 16:43:25

Originally by: Pheusia

Nice fallacy. You're ignoring the possibility of, say, spending 50% of the first two weeks training learning skills and spending the other 50% on training stuff you can use right away.


You're missing the point. Slapchop implied that the time savings provided by the learning skills was paltry (only saving four days.) I provided a counter example and ran the numbers for 4/3 learning skills through EveMon and saved 27 days.





You missed my point, I never said that you should forgo the learning skills completely. What I am trying to get at is that you may lose out on a few days (hell maybe even a weeks worth)of skillpoints by not training all your learning skills at the same time instead of spreading them around while learning useful skills that make the game easier/more fun for a newbie. The point I am trying to make is that the small amount of time wasted by training the skills as needed as opposed to all at once is not that major, and that being obsessed with training skills as fast as possible is missing the point of the game.

Pheusia
Gallente
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.04.26 22:19:00 - [73]
 

Ah, I see what you're getting at now.

Yeah, training only Learning skills for a new player is just as dumb as training only Gunnery or only Navigation.

churrros
Amarr
National Quality Breaker
Posted - 2010.04.27 03:05:00 - [74]
 

OP's idea should have been implemented a long time ago.

I personally stopped playing eve after a month(obviosly im back again) because it gets so boring flying frigates even after one month because everyone tells you too train learnings first.

I mean learning skills are something EVERY SINGLE character trains so whats the point?

The old players still wont lose that much anyway. Players with 20mil+ SP already have their core skills to level 5 and would still have an advantage for a very long time even if the learning skills were just gone. Even when they catch up, the oldbies still would have a bigger economical advantage and the experience.

I have seen so many players leave after about couple months because it gets boring after 2months of training learning skills and I'm pretty sure it's not the so called learning curve of eve, as some people claim, b/c the basic controls of eve is not that hard if you know how to right click and read english.

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2010.04.27 07:21:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: churrros
because everyone tells you too train learnings first.


You should petition those people, they wanted bad things for you.

Originally by: churrros
I mean learning skills are something EVERY SINGLE character trains so whats the point?


No, it is not. I know some people who never bothered with learning, or trained it only to IV/III after quite some time.

Gunnanmon
Gallente
PURPLE.
Posted - 2010.04.27 10:50:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Mrs Skraaler
i agree, it's stupid as hell. CCP has said it was a mistake to implement it but now its too late and we're stuck with it


Presumably the T2 BPO lottery was a mistake, but they got rid of that easily enough.

Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
Posted - 2010.05.07 00:36:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
This whole discussion (not just the thread but the general idea of training skills being 'required') is based on the concept that, for some reason, training a little slower than the other guys puts one at 'a disadvantage'. It really is a bummer how you can 'lose' at EVE by taking 4 extra days to finish off Recon V :(


Ah... let's put it this way. According to Evemon,

New character with optimized attributes:
* ~89 days to train to Recon Ship V.
* Recon Ship IV to V takes ~50 days.

New character with 4/3 learning skills with optimized attributes:
* ~62 days to train to Recon Ship V (27 day improvement)
* Recon Ship IV to V takes ~28 days. (22 day improvement)

A week's worth of learning skills saves nearly a month of time, but only if you sit on your hands for the first week and train learning skills.

A month's worth of the recon ship skill gives you the ability to fly recons, but only if you sit on your hands for a month and train the recon ship skill.

Obviously everyone should have the recon ship skill out of the box. Repeat for all skills in the game.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.07 03:00:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: stoicfaux on 07/05/2010 03:01:16
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: stoicfaux


Slapchop's Agument: Learning skills don't make enough of a difference to justify obsessing over them
Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
It really is a bummer how you can 'lose' at EVE by taking 4 extra days to finish off Recon V :(


Counter Argument using an Example: I disagree with Slapchop's assertion, so I now put forth evidence to show that learning skills make a significant difference.

New character with optimized attributes:
* ~89 days to train to Recon Ship V.
* Recon Ship IV to V takes ~50 days.

New character with 4/3 learning skills with optimized attributes:
* ~62 days to train to Recon Ship V (27 day improvement)
* Recon Ship IV to V takes ~28 days. (22 day improvement)

Conclusion: I summarize my counter-point.
Learning skills save a *lot* more than 4 days. Learning skills make a *huge* difference and only a fool would ignore them.


A month's worth of the recon ship skill gives you the ability to fly recons, but only if you sit on your hands for a month and train the recon ship skill.

Obviously everyone should have the recon ship skill out of the box. Repeat for all skills in the game.



My apologies for not being clear, thus causing you to completely misunderstand the point that Slapchop and I were debating. I've trimmed the posts you commented on to the essentials, and the bold and italicized text was added to clarify what was being argued. The point of the post should now be much more obvious and the argument easier to follow. I eagerly await your (revised) contribution to the discussion.



SebbyTheFreak
Caldari
Vagrant Troubadours of the Vast Expenses
Bitter Nomad's Orchestra
Posted - 2010.05.07 03:50:00 - [79]
 

I don't know about you.

But for me, when I had barely started out, training learning skills helped me learn about the whole training time/stat effect. It helps realise the inner-working of the levelling-up system if you give a rat's ass about it. You see a direct impact of the stats on the training time.

And the most important lesson taken from learning skills, is that **** takes time. Get used to it.

As for the all accompassing importance of learning skills... Once you reach 30m sp you pretty much have all you need. The rest is just really long to apply icing on the cake and petty desires. (Did I really need all four BS V? Hell, why the hell did I train black op V? I barely even fly battleships...)

Ugly Eric
Posted - 2010.05.07 05:38:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: drake duka


stuff


Good point about the whines but people whine about most everything in this game ;), I really think this one is actually justified. Sure if this change would happen I should think those who have trained it would get some compensation but remapping the SP is too much imo.

, Thanks


Hehe :) I always thought it so funny. People whine and cry about almost everything in this game. Still they keep playing it day inn day out :)

But to the topic.

One solution to think would be to give everyone this 5.6m sp (the amount of 5/5) in the beginning to place as how best pleaced. Bad thing about this would be the too easy generation of too strong dummy alts. Vets would get the same amount, beacause they already trained the learnings w/o such a "boost". The again it would maybe be too great leap forwards in the game for those about 10m sp guys. It anyhow is several months of training time.

The new players could place the points all to learning or put learnings to 4/4 and use the 3m sp left however pleased. It really would make the new player experience little bit easy to beginn, as everyone could get straight a t2 frig with t2 weapons and deacent lernings.

However something needs to be done IMO.

Eric

foksieloy
Minmatar
Rockets ponies and rainbows
Posted - 2010.05.07 10:33:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Ugly Eric
The new players could place the points all to learning or put learnings to 4/4 and use the 3m sp left however pleased. It really would make the new player experience little bit easy to beginn, as everyone could get straight a t2 frig with t2 weapons and deacent lernings.


Seriously bad. Seriously. Instant gratification is bad enough, this will not give people enough time to get used to the game.
Starting slow is the best thing to FORCE someone to pay attention to the game and its rules.

What you are suggesting is the same as giving 4 year olds driving licenses and buying them a 400BHP car. It will end bad.

Originally by: Ugly Eric
However something needs to be done IMO.


No, not really. Sure everything can be tweaked, but i think the energy invested is not worth it, compared to gains.

Neffer Abandon
Posted - 2010.05.07 20:51:00 - [82]
 


i dont get it,why remove learning skills? they help to learn faster skills. And nobody would try to get only learning skills in the beginning, it is not possible anyway because you have no isk withouth other skills.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2010.05.08 11:37:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Whitehound on 08/05/2010 11:40:53
Remove mining skills and save all those who want to start EVE in a Hulk the dreadful waste of time before they can get between the big roids. Throw out all rookie ships and let PvPers start in a Hulk.

You say learning skills are taking up too much time of noobs? You just have not yet trained for a Hulk!

Seriously, remove those mining skills. Send the noob PvPer back between the roids. You die, you get a Hulk at the next station. Go and start breaking rocks again!

This thread needs more trolling.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2010.05.08 18:30:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 08/05/2010 11:40:53
Remove mining skills and save all those who want to start EVE in a Hulk the dreadful waste of time before they can get between the big roids. Throw out all rookie ships and let PvPers start in a Hulk.

You say learning skills are taking up too much time of noobs? You just have not yet trained for a Hulk!

Seriously, remove those mining skills. Send the noob PvPer back between the roids. You die, you get a Hulk at the next station. Go and start breaking rocks again!




The point you're making is weak. The sub-skills needed for a Hulk allow you to use other items and ships (mining barges, exhumers,) or improve your abilities (improved mining yields) as you train up. When you train the learning skills, you're stuck in place. Your character is static in terms of ability. No new ships, no new items, no new improved fitting abilities.


Example:
n00b with optimized attributes will need ~129 days to get into this Hulk. http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/7802-Hulk-Passive-HighSec-Miner.html

n00b with optimized attributes and five accelerated days of learning skills can train it in ~81 days. But that ~48 day savings in training time requires that the n00b do nothing but fly with the starting basic frigate/industry skills for the first five days of life.

That 48 days is why people say that the learning skills are essential and should be learned first. The sooner you sit on your hands for five days, (or ten days if you're out of the accelerated learning period,) the sooner you can fly that fancy new ship. Sitting on your hands is boring and makes for a horrible New Player Experience.


Quote:
This thread needs more trolling.


Nice sig, redundant, but nice.

Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
Frontline Assembly Point
Posted - 2010.05.08 20:39:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: stoicfaux
The point you're making is weak. The sub-skills needed for a Hulk allow you to use other items and ships (mining barges, exhumers,) or improve your abilities (improved mining yields) as you train up. When you train the learning skills, you're stuck in place. Your character is static in terms of ability. No new ships, no new items, no new improved fitting abilities.

No. I get stuck on a Hulk and in-between asteroids, while I cannot fly a battleship and have a slow training. Better remove the mining skills and give us Hulks for free!

This thread needs much more trolling - and this is not a signature.

Osric Wolfe
Posted - 2010.05.09 12:20:00 - [86]
 

Always thought the learning skills were a complete waste of time and just a time sink. Especially where alts are concerned. A few times in the past I've started alts with just training training skills with the result of me getting bored thinking the whole process is just a waste of time and leaving the game for a few months to do something more interesting.

I would really like to see the learning skills got rid of as they are nothing more than a time sink and do not add anything to the game other than leaving people thinking they are just a total waste of time.

I'd much prefer the imps being a bit more meaningful as to training.

Osric Wolfe
Posted - 2010.05.09 12:42:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Whitehound
Edited by: Whitehound on 08/05/2010 11:40:53
Remove mining skills and save all those who want to start EVE in a Hulk the dreadful waste of time before they can get between the big roids. Throw out all rookie ships and let PvPers start in a Hulk.

You say learning skills are taking up too much time of noobs? You just have not yet trained for a Hulk!

Seriously, remove those mining skills. Send the noob PvPer back between the roids. You die, you get a Hulk at the next station. Go and start breaking rocks again!

This thread needs more trolling.


Learning skills do take up too much time especially on an account for an alt where you are paying more than a month in subs just to have the privilege to log on and change learning skills. Hardly seems like good value for money. Especially in light of only being able to train 1 character at a time per account. I'm sure new people would also much prefer to train skills that they can use in combat and are useful to miners etc. rather than just waiting for learning skills to finish.

BearJews
Posted - 2010.05.09 15:38:00 - [88]
 

As a player that just started a couple of months ago, i don't see the big deal. Learning about learning actually helped develop my knowledge of the game, and i feel like it's something we all go through. Sure you can get rid of it and make this game more enticing to new players, but regardless of learning it still takes a LONG time to skill up. Removing learning, relative to playability of this game (your career in this game) seems negligible.

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.05.09 20:15:00 - [89]
 

*looks at the poor dead horse... Crying or Very sad

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.05.09 20:20:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Osric Wolfe
Always thought all the skills were a complete waste of time and just a time sink. Especially where alts are concerned. A few times in the past I've started alts with just training some skills with the result of me getting bored thinking the whole process is just a waste of time and leaving the game for a few months to do something more interesting.

I would really like to see all the skills got rid of as they are nothing more than a time sink and do not add anything to the game other than leaving people thinking they are just a total waste of time.

I'd much prefer the wimps being a bit more meaningful as to training.


Fixed.


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