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Mathias Black
Posted - 2010.06.13 05:29:00 - [301]
 

Edited by: Mathias Black on 13/06/2010 05:48:16
Oh I should stop posting now.

Faccat
Posted - 2010.06.13 06:12:00 - [302]
 

How much of a head start do the first players need for this to be a good game? 7 years? only 6 years? Removing learning skills would take 2 months off whatever head start players have now *only* with respect to training. It would do nothing for ISK or actual flyable skills.

The new player would log on and ask themselves, "What do I want to be? A miner, I'll train mining." And each subsequent skill would move them toward their current goal.

Currently a player says, "I want to be a miner, let's do the math and balance my end game mining goals against the learning skills." If he wants to change in midstream he may need to redo the math for more learning skills.

It doesn't really take depth and strategy out of the game. It takes depth and strategy out of deciding to play the game.

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.06.13 08:37:00 - [303]
 

Originally by: Pantload
Originally by: V'hellu


You're an idiot. The only thing learning skills do is decrease training time. It doesn't affect gameplay at all, hence they're USELESS and do not contribute to the game itself.


Training up your skillset over time is not a part of gameplay? In one sentence you admit that the learning skills reduce training time and in another you say they are useless. They are clearly not useless as they do perform a function. The learning skills are intrinsic to the attribute and skill systems in this game now. The reason you want them out is the same reason that anyone on your side of the argument wants them out. I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's because you are all weak, lazy, and stupid. You want something for nothing and you lack any type of patience or vision. I stand with a great many other people on this: If the learning skills are enough to put you off of this game, then you were going to wind up leaving for one dopey reason or another anyway and we don't want you here.

Now, for the n-th time you whiny ****ing *****es: HTFU or GTFO

Oh and...
LEAVE MY LEARNING SKILLS ALONE!


I must agree with this.

Again, removing learning skills would definatly not be a game breaker to me, but it certainly is usefull to weed out the impatient.

Jennifer Fenring
Amarr
Posted - 2010.06.13 11:29:00 - [304]
 

Edited by: Jennifer Fenring on 13/06/2010 11:31:46
Originally by: CyberGh0st
Again, removing learning skills would definatly not be a game breaker to me, but it certainly is usefull to weed out the impatient.

1. As if the remaining 28 years of skilltraining doesn't require extreme patience
2. As if extreme patience is the main charateristic of a good, nice or fun player. There's horrible patient people and very nice impatient people as well you know.

Anyway I don't know how many of you have actually seen Tippia's linked vid but it's clear CCP WILL one day take them away, they only feel uncomforbale with finding the way to do it and finding a appropriate compensation for existing players without causing too much trouble.

But I guess we will have to be patient .. also for that ^^
CCP sometimes reminds me of the LOtR ents .. "don't be hasty"

Dark Angel15
PamPam Flying Circus
Astromechanica Federatis
Posted - 2010.06.13 11:58:00 - [305]
 

Anyone can train learning. Remove learning is stupid.

Cash Render
Posted - 2010.06.13 12:31:00 - [306]
 

Edited by: Cash Render on 13/06/2010 12:33:37
Since so many people who want to see them removed are using new players and preventing them from being discouraged, here's an idea Rolling Eyes

1) Remove the learnign skill books from the game... no more people buying them and training them.

2) Give everyone the +10 to attributes they provide.

3) To compensate those that took the time to train them up... they retain the bonuses they trained for... thus preventing the butthurt for them (meanign an additional possible +10)

See, solves the problem of new players gettign discouraged AND provides those that just don't like spending time for a gain an instant gratification. As for those of us that spent the time get our compensation and reward.

Let the flaming begin.

Though in response to Jennifer Fenring, not all of us are fighting to keep them in... simply fighting against instant gratification taking over the game because people don't like spending time that will save them time later and just want the benifits for free. Hence why I've repeatedly said to simply remove the skills and their benefits. But since you can't seem to read that based on your previous replies to what I've said, here is my new proposal

edit: clarification.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.06.13 13:08:00 - [307]
 

Originally by: Cash Render
2) Give everyone the +10 to attributes they provide.


I posted this in a different thread two months ago:

Just increase the base attributes by 12 and increase the lowest number of attributes you can assign in a remap from 5 to 17. This will more or less compensate for the lack of the 10% boost provided by the learning skill.

End result:
Min/maxed char without implants: 27/21 (2250SP/h) compared to 27.5/20.9 (2277SP/h).
Min/maxed char with +5 implants: 32/26 (2700SP/h) compared to 33/26.4 (2770SP/h).

In other words we are talking about a max SP reduction of 613k SP/year for a +5 implant char and 236k SP/year for no implants. Another thing to consider is that before the neural remaps the highest speed you could reach in game was 2739SP/h.

To keep all the players that already have the learning skills trained happy just implement the 2x speed training suggested by Tippia until the SP loss has been restored.

See it from the bright side, Dr Caymus can celebrate reaching 150m SP again. Very Happy And in three months time it would be no trace of the temporary SP loss in any skill sheet.

Dark Angel15
PamPam Flying Circus
Astromechanica Federatis
Posted - 2010.06.13 14:13:00 - [308]
 

I don't see why it's better give +10/12 in attribute than keep the train learning system.

You just need quickly perfect training time.
I can understand the price of skill book are problem for new players, but many corp pay it.

Mathias Black
Posted - 2010.06.13 19:12:00 - [309]
 

Personally, I think the game would be better if some of these "patient" and "hard-working" people left. They seem like sad, bitter, hateful little trolls whose greatest accomplishment in life was that they were "patient" and "hard-working" enough to click a button in a game and sit there for a few months watching a bar fill up. Good lord, get over yourselves people. If watching the learning skill progress bar go up is the centerpiece of proving that you are a patient, hard-working, intelligent person, then you really need to turn off the computer and go do something in real life until you have something else to be proud of, and realize that Eve is just a game, and that being willing to sit through mind-numbing tedium in a video game doesn't make you anything but easily amused.

stoicfaux
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.13 19:20:00 - [310]
 

Originally by: Dark Angel15
I don't see why it's better give +10/12 in attribute than keep the train learning system.

You just need quickly perfect training time.



Yes, quickly. And the quickest way is to spend the full 1.6 million of accelerated training on learning skills, which takes about 17d 5h of time. For 20d 17h you can have 5/4/5 in everything but Charisma.

It's like buying a new sports car and then realizing you're going to be stuck driving at 30mph/48kph unless you immediately take a 17 to 20 day accelerated course on how to drive. During those 17 to 20 days of learning how to drive at up to 90mph/144kph, you're puttering around in a subcompact.

On the bright side, in less than three months you'll be driving up to three times faster than any of your friends who didn't bother with the 17 to 20 days accelerated training course.

It's a tough way to sell a sports car.


Personally, the only reason I can tolerate doing a month of learning skills when starting an alt is because I can use my main to actually play the game during that month. Newbies don't have that option.


Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.06.13 21:16:00 - [311]
 

Originally by: Mathias Black
Personally, I think the game would be better if some of these "patient" and "hard-working" people left. They seem like sad, bitter, hateful little trolls whose greatest accomplishment in life was that they were "patient" and "hard-working" enough to click a button in a game and sit there for a few months watching a bar fill up. Good lord, get over yourselves people. If watching the learning skill progress bar go up is the centerpiece of proving that you are a patient, hard-working, intelligent person, then you really need to turn off the computer and go do something in real life until you have something else to be proud of, and realize that Eve is just a game, and that being willing to sit through mind-numbing tedium in a video game doesn't make you anything but easily amused.


And how is different from learning _any_ skill in the game?

Yea, the 73 million plus skill points minus the 5 plus million for the Learning skills have been a blast each and every moment...

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.06.13 21:45:00 - [312]
 

You know, I've been giving it some thought.

I've been playing this game for almost four years now. Since new players seem to be so adamant about removing the Learning skill tree and being granted the ten attribute points because that is a daunting obstacle to face when first starting out with potential consequences of leaving, I think we veterans deserve some compensation too for our loyalty over the years.

After four years of dredging through skills, a player is granted their racial dreadnought skill book. At the five year anniversary, the option of either the dreadnought ship or their racial carrier skill book. Then at the six year anniversary, again the option of either the carrier ship or their racial titan skill book. Just login, accept the gift, and let it fall right into your current hangar. So CCP will have to modify a bit of code to make it all work - no problem.

No need to be one of those "hard working" players when this is just a game and life is out there to enjoy! And us pilot still in the newbie corp that apparently should not have a say-so in matters will enjoy the rich rewards those null sec pilots get, but without the work. Because working at a game is just wrong!!!

So what is good for the newbies is good for us cranky old vets too. At least we've proven to stick around, or apparently have been too stupid to realize watching a bar fill up is not fun.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.06.13 22:07:00 - [313]
 

Edited by: Pantload on 14/06/2010 00:27:00
Originally by: Mathias Black
Personally, I think the game would be better if some of these "patient" and "hard-working" people left. They seem like sad, bitter, hateful little trolls whose greatest accomplishment in life was that they were "patient" and "hard-working" enough to click a button in a game and sit there for a few months watching a bar fill up. Good lord, get over yourselves people. If watching the learning skill progress bar go up is the centerpiece of proving that you are a patient, hard-working, intelligent person, then you really need to turn off the computer and go do something in real life until you have something else to be proud of, and realize that Eve is just a game, and that being willing to sit through mind-numbing tedium in a video game doesn't make you anything but easily amused.


Let me restate what this says: "If you veteran players like your game the way it's always been then you need quit now. The newbs have had just about enough out of you."

The new player population in this game has the most incredibly bizarre ( and utterly undeserved ) sense of entitlement.

I don't believe that the Learning Skills were ever put into the game as a "weed out" mechanism. However they do seem to have become that. I feel a lot of that is due to people's perceptions of this issue more than there being something fundamentally "evil" about learning skills. I have a hard attitude toward people that simply want them ripped out of the game because of what that looks like to me as a veteran player.

I still do not support the removal of the Learning Skills from the game. I also hate the idea of newbs getting something for nothing, but there is a compromise solution that I could really live with:

All new characters start with 4/3/4 in Learning Skills and receive Cybernetics 1 right away. This will cause all new characters to start out with like ( rough guess here ) 450k-500k XP. That's fine. It's in the middle between now and the time when newbs would start with 800k+ XP. I say leave the double speed training bonus in place although the cut-off point could be adjusted +/- from 1.6m. There needs to be something else in place to act as a disincentive for training your learning skills past 4/3/4 during the double speed bonus period. New players don't need pressure on them to burn all that bonus on learnings or else be screwed. They need to be incentivized to train profession-related skills right away and save the more advanced learning training as a personal choice further down the line.

If, indeed, change is coming...this is the only one I can support.

*edit*
It is definitely worth noting that the above suggestion regarding the 4/3/4 learning skills is NOT my idea. I heard it from stoicfaux. Credit to him for the suggestion. It is compromise incarnate.

Mr Zog
Posted - 2010.06.13 23:22:00 - [314]
 

Originally by: Pantload

Let's see...something for nothing...newbs get to train at the same speed that advanced characters can train at now and they don't ever have to invest the time in getting to that point. They just get it for free.

Oh the horror! New players training at the same speed as advanced characters, that's just...UNACCEPTABLE!
Yeah, sounds like a real game breaker right there. Rolling Eyes

Well, in the time honored tradition in this thread of taking the other side's argument to the illogical extreme, why don't we start the new characters out with absolutely nothing? I say we start all attributes at 1 and add a third tier of learning skills. Sounds like a great idea, hate to just GIVE things to these needy newbs. They should have to learn spaceship command before they can even undock in their pod. And don't just give it to them free, oh no, that wouldn't be enriching. The first and only tutorial will instruct the player on how to use the chat channel to beg for the money to cover the cost of the skills they need to fly their rookie ship, which they shall also have to pay for with donations. Donations that they likely won't get, because who has time for generosity? HTFU or GTFO, I say.

Originally by: Pantload

Yeah...I was right...that is something for nothing. Is that clear enough dip****?



Well, I guess in the absence of an actual argument or valid point, you can just claim that you're right and call the other guy a dip****.

Xylopia
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.06.14 04:34:00 - [315]
 

Guys, I have a suggestion. This one should be pretty much agreeable for both sides.

Why don't we ask CCP to provide an option for the next expansion that you can choose to remove learning skills from your character? It's an one-shot deal for the entire career of your toon so you can never change it back.

By selecting to remove, learning skills will completely disappear from your skill tree so that you can completely forget about it, and safely going w/o EVER having a chance to increase your attribute from basic 39 pts other than means of implants. (Oh, let CCP to have mercy for them to use +5 ones immediately tho.Very Happy) In that way, learning skills will never bother you again. You should be ok since the learning skills does not add anything to your experience in EVE.

For those ones taking up the pain of learning skill, we can still train up the whole sets of rest skills faster, and pod 'em like flies.Wink

Ain't this sweet or what?Twisted Evil

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.06.14 06:31:00 - [316]
 

Originally by: Mr Zog
(snipped...) why don't we start the new characters out with absolutely nothing? (snipped...) The first and only tutorial will instruct the player (snipped...) to fly their rookie ship (snipped...)


Quite ironic you practically described the very early days of Eve, well at least nearly four years ago when I first started.

Electronic - 2
Targeting - 1
Gunnery - 4
Small Hybrid Turret - 3
Mining - 1
Missile Launcher Operation - 1
Rockets - 1
Caldari Frigate - 1
Spaceship Command - 1

Yes, I've been recording my skill advancements since day one, especially when CCP removed the in-game mail notification when a skill advanced. There was no skill queue available and I am not sure whether EveMon was available to the public yet. As for the tutorial - what tutorial? Here is an Ibis (It Blows In Seconds) and got kicked in the ass out the docking door. Either mine with the Civilian mining laser or killed rats with the Civilian Gatling gun. There was no such thing as salvaging since either the rat dropped a container or there was nothing. The game prompted you to explore and learn as you went along. And to interact with others...

A year or two afterward, CCP added either as flavor or as a modified starting point Ancestry, Career, and Specialization paths that allowed a player to start with 600,000 to 800,000 skill points preset into a specialized path. The tutorial was advanced and expanded into further details about the basic aspects to the game. If I remember correctly, those players started with two to three of the first tier learning skills already in motion (not maxed out). Eventually players complained they were too locked into one path, especially with their stats. Add the debates about having a skill queue added to the game and in time, CCP changed the game again.

As for today, since I did start a new character over five months ago: the 1.6 million skill speed bonus, along with two neural remaps to rearrange your stats for maximum optimization. Yes, the starting skill point total was reduced again, but quickly regained in days. Tutorial programs that dump items, ships, and skill books into your lap for performing them. Proliferation of items in the game that make things cheaper than ever! I bought my new character all +4 implants and it cost under 100 million ISK in total! When I first started, we're lucky to get +2 to +3 at that price per implant!!!

Yea, really rough now-a-days.

CyberGh0st
Minmatar
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2010.06.14 13:01:00 - [317]
 

Edited by: CyberGh0st on 14/06/2010 13:01:49

As I said before, if CCP really has a need to remove learning skills, then a refund in straight skill points or perhaps even easier and just as good a double sp boost until all points have been regained, together with a cash refund, is a good enough compensation for me. ( I trained all learning skills to 5 )

Anything less is of course out of the question.

Anything more is, honestly, pure greed.

After that just add the stats for everyone and be done with it, the newbies will have another small boost, but they will never catch up, no matter what.

I don't think it is such a big deal one way or the other.

The biggest issue is the effort it will take for the database admins and software engineers to search the data and implement the code, and wether CCP wants to invest this time in something that is not really broken.


Mathias Black
Posted - 2010.06.14 19:22:00 - [318]
 

Edited by: Mathias Black on 14/06/2010 19:30:04
Originally by: Pantload

Let me restate what this says: "If you veteran players like your game the way it's always been then you need quit now. The newbs have had just about enough out of you."

The new player population in this game has the most incredibly bizarre ( and utterly undeserved ) sense of entitlement.

I don't believe that the Learning Skills were ever put into the game as a "weed out" mechanism. However they do seem to have become that. I feel a lot of that is due to people's perceptions of this issue more than there being something fundamentally "evil" about learning skills. I have a hard attitude toward people that simply want them ripped out of the game because of what that looks like to me as a veteran player.

I still do not support the removal of the Learning Skills from the game. I also hate the idea of newbs getting something for nothing, but there is a compromise solution that I could really live with:



Actually I've been playing on and off since 2005, and have all the Learning skills trained to 5/4. I still think they should be thrown out. They were incredibly boring and annoying to train, but like everyone else, I did it because you have to if you want to advance at the normal rate. Especially since at the time, being Intaki, I had the worst racial starting array of all the races. (And yes, I'm glad they got rid of that too.) I guess unlike you, I don't feel that other new players need to be punished and forced to suffer through the same tedium that I did. I don't feel like they're "getting something for nothing" if they get to train skills that they enjoy rather than being forced to train the most boring skills imaginable. I would actually greatly prefer that new players have FUN, and don't need to suffer to prove their worth. More people enjoying the game means more players and more expansions.

But like I said, I really don't look at my training the Learning skills to 5/4 as any sort of great achievement, or something that I "worked" for. There was no work. Work is doing something difficult in order to produce something useful. Training learning is clicking a button and then sitting there watching a progress bar. It's more like standing in line at the supermarket than "work", and I've never seen anyone come home from the supermarket saying "I waited in the longest line today, on purpose, just to show what a hard-working and intelligent person I am! Man, I hate how all those people in the express lane have this sense of entitlement like they deserve to stand in short lines! Everyone should be FORCED to stand in really long lines all the time at the grocery store because otherwise the shoppers will all be weak and never grow into strong, long-line standing juggernauts like ME!" Who cares? I don't feel like I need to force other people to suffer through tedium just because I had to suffer through tedium once.

Edit: I will also add, that I would be 100% behind removing the learning skills and not getting any sort of refund for it at all. A refund would be nice (I like the double training speed until payback idea), but I don't really care that much. I've played plenty of games where the developers patched annoying parts that I had already been through and I didn't really feel like they needed to pay me back for going through the annoying part before it was patched.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.06.14 20:03:00 - [319]
 

Edited by: Pantload on 15/06/2010 03:29:26
Originally by: Mathias Black
Edited by: Mathias Black on 14/06/2010 19:30:04
Stuff



We're all aware that your opinion is to just throw them out. You quoted my last post and didn't even include the actual suggestion for a compromise that I made. There are other solutions besides just ripping them out of the game.

I never said that new players need to be punished. Those are your words. I never felt like I was being punished when I was new. I never even gave the learning skills a thought. They are just skills like any other and require exactly the same amount of "work" to train. Which is none, actually. As you pointed out you simply click them on to train and wait for the bar to fill up. Just like all other skills.

If new players are given something that you and I had to spend time on, but they get it for no time investment and no ISK investment. That is the text book definition of "something for nothing" and I'm not a fan of that solution at all. *edit* I'm referring here to just giving everyone 5/5/5 Learnings or just adding to everyone's attributes.

About the "Standing in the line at the Supermarket" metaphor...I don't believe it really illustrates the nature of the problem here. I don't see my trained Learning Skills as some outstanding achievement. Just another group of skills I trained. I'd be equally bothered if we were discussing the removal of any other skills from the game.

I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. Besides...there's no suffering here. You guys act like you have to line up and take 40 lashes. They are just another group of skills.

If, for whatever reason, It is decided that simply ripping them out of the game is the only thing to do, then it is fair that players who trained them already should be compensated.

Simply ripping the skills out of the game is not the only way to address this problem. I still don't like the idea of giving new characters something for nothing but I like it much much better than taking things out of the game that have been here for like 6 or 7 years. See my above post for the suggestion. *edit* I'm referring here to a -limited- version of something for nothing which is the 4/3/4 proposal above.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.06.15 23:18:00 - [320]
 

Daily Bump. I don't really think this thread needs to drop away just because it turned from a screaming match back into civil discourse. Come now y'all.

PL

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2010.06.16 04:10:00 - [321]
 

Originally by: Pantload
Daily Bump. I don't really think this thread needs to drop away just because it turned from a screaming match back into civil discourse. Come now y'all.
Sorry. I'd be more inclined to keep it at the top if the topic was "Give us the Elite Learning Skills NOW!!!" or something similar. I feel like constantly bumping it makes someone think, "Gee, 11 pages? They must really want the learning skills gone."

Jenny Cameron
Caldari
Ordo Eventus
Inception Alliance
Posted - 2010.06.16 07:51:00 - [322]
 

Edited by: Jenny Cameron on 16/06/2010 15:17:20
Originally by: Pantload
I never felt like I was being punished when I was new.

I guess that's personal. Some people actually LOVE training them. Most don't really enjoy it though.

Originally by: Pantload
They are just skills like any other and require exactly the same amount of "work" to train. Which is none, actually. As you pointed out you simply click them on to train and wait for the bar to fill up. Just like all other skills.

Well 4.5 million for each advanced skillbook takes a bit of "work" of course. And since I also have a job and pay my subscription with that - so training learning skills to V costs me like $20-$30. To be honest, I'd rather spend my " work" on something else.

Originally by: Pantload
About the "Standing in the line at the Supermarket" metaphor...I don't believe it really illustrates the nature of the problem here.

I actually like it. Standing in line you don't get anything yet, you can't eat or drink the things you want to buy (read: skills that actually allow you do do more things in the game), you just wait .. and wait .. and wait.

Quote:
If, for whatever reason, It is decided that simply ripping them out of the game is the only thing to do, then it is fair that players who trained them already should be compensated.


I wouldn't mind that.

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2010.06.16 15:03:00 - [323]
 

Originally by: Jenny Cameron
Originally by: Pantload
About the "Standing in the line at the Supermarket" metaphor...I don't believe it really illustrates the nature of the problem here.

I actually like it. Standing in teh line you don't get anything yet, you can't eat or drink the things you want to buy (read: skills that actually allow you do do more things in the game), you just wait .. and wait .. and wait.
Actually, that gives me an interesting idea. What if they made it to where the learning skills actually did something for you other than raise attributes? For example, what if they allowed you to use certain levels of combat boosters, or better implants, rather than relying mainly on the Cybernetics skill?

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.06.16 15:58:00 - [324]
 

Originally by: Tripoli
Originally by: Jenny Cameron
Originally by: Pantload
About the "Standing in the line at the Supermarket" metaphor...I don't believe it really illustrates the nature of the problem here.

I actually like it. Standing in teh line you don't get anything yet, you can't eat or drink the things you want to buy (read: skills that actually allow you do do more things in the game), you just wait .. and wait .. and wait.
Actually, that gives me an interesting idea. What if they made it to where the learning skills actually did something for you other than raise attributes? For example, what if they allowed you to use certain levels of combat boosters, or better implants, rather than relying mainly on the Cybernetics skill?


Depending upon the exact proposal, I could definitely get on board with this as a compromise. Giving the learning skills a secondary effect is actually a pretty damn good idea.

Guttripper
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2010.06.16 17:01:00 - [325]
 

Originally by: Tripoli
Actually, that gives me an interesting idea. What if they made it to where the learning skills actually did something for you other than raise attributes? For example, what if they allowed you to use certain levels of combat boosters, or better implants, rather than relying mainly on the Cybernetics skill?


Unfortunately, someone will complain that the learning skills are a mandatory requirement to achieve those aspects, especially on those same aspects that have effects and not a visual representation like a new module or ship.

Mr Zog
Posted - 2010.06.16 18:44:00 - [326]
 

Originally by: Tripoli
Actually, that gives me an interesting idea. What if they made it to where the learning skills actually did something for you other than raise attributes? For example, what if they allowed you to use certain levels of combat boosters, or better implants, rather than relying mainly on the Cybernetics skill?


If there were something useful and/or interesting to tie them to that most people would want, that would be fine. Don't know what that something would be, though. Maybe if each learning skill gave some kind of small bonus to certain things, like reduce the cap usage of some module by x% per level(random example), people wouldn't feel bad about spending time on them.

Pantload
Gallente
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Flatline.
Posted - 2010.06.16 19:01:00 - [327]
 

Edited by: Pantload on 16/06/2010 19:05:31
Originally by: Guttripper
Originally by: Tripoli
Actually, that gives me an interesting idea. What if they made it to where the learning skills actually did something for you other than raise attributes? For example, what if they allowed you to use certain levels of combat boosters, or better implants, rather than relying mainly on the Cybernetics skill?


Unfortunately, someone will complain that the learning skills are a mandatory requirement to achieve those aspects, especially on those same aspects that have effects and not a visual representation like a new module or ship.


I feel you with the sense of futility on this. However, it might just work. Especially if you consider this: At least these people are not screaming about fitting skills or cap skills or something else non-visual ( for right now anyway ). If it were just about any other useful bonus besides making you simply train faster, you might get some support for the idea.

I like this idea of giving the skills a secondary effect. Thereby making them more appealing to train. I also am still in favor of the previous proposal to start characters out with 4/3/4 in learnings. Either give them a good head start on them ( and a cost savings on the books ) or the skills some additional effect to potentially increase their appeal. Did someone say compromise? :)

electrostatus
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2010.06.17 14:08:00 - [328]
 

Oh, just make it so it's impossible to train any learning skills for the first 6 months. That way will leave everyone annoyed instead of making one side super angry and the other side super happy.

Stormmaster Neptunius
Gallente
Posted - 2010.06.17 21:44:00 - [329]
 

Originally by: electrostatus
Oh, just make it so it's impossible to train any learning skills for the first 6 months. That way will leave everyone annoyed instead of making one side super angry and the other side super happy.


It would leave annoyed (or super angry most likely) those who haven't trained them yet. Those who have and not going to create more alts wouldn't have problems themselves - only sorrow for other people's fate.

Tripoli
XenTech
Posted - 2010.06.17 22:42:00 - [330]
 

Originally by: Tripoli
Actually, that gives me an interesting idea. What if they made it to where the learning skills actually did something for you other than raise attributes? For example, what if they allowed you to use certain levels of combat boosters, or better implants, rather than relying mainly on the Cybernetics skill?
I see enough potential in this idea, that I have reposted it in a new thread in the Features and Ideas Discussion forum, where it should get some attention from the devs. It'll be interesting to see where it goes, one way or the other: The long-awaited solution to the Learning Skills Problem?


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