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blankseplocked Someone please help me understand...........
 
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Ick Ickagami
The Soul Society
Pax Romana Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.12 12:48:00 - [1]
 

.........because it is that I am very confused.

I make quite a nice living self destructing ships. I fly from place to place, buying and insuring ships only to undock them, fly them to a SS, blow them up, collect the insurance and salvage the wrecks.

This nets me a nice daily profit and involves absolutely NO risk whatsoever on my part. At some locations I even forego the salvage by flipping a can and allowing someone to legally destroy me; it is much faster that way.

What confuses me is the fact that I can not understand the rationale behind a builder putting something on the market at below insurance costs. Why doesn't he/she/It blow up the ship themselves, thus increasing their dismally slim margins?

It just makes no business sense to me. Not, of course, that I am complaining; their laziness/lack of interest/whatever provides me ( and others, I am sure ) with a decent subsistence living.




Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2010.03.12 12:50:00 - [2]
 

Not everyone can fly titans...

Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
Posted - 2010.03.12 12:53:00 - [3]
 

Not everyone selling ships are building them; Some people just need some quick isk so chose to liquidate their assets at a firesale price.

Lena Cakelicious
Posted - 2010.03.12 13:03:00 - [4]
 

Not everyone is aware of insurancefraud or in otherwords know what opportunity cost is.
Not everyone can fly what they build
Not everyone who buys&sells them can fly them
Not everyone is smart enough to see that minerals are in fact not free :P
Not everyone [...] feel free to extend that list ;)

Marko Riva
Posted - 2010.03.12 13:04:00 - [5]
 

Because people are stupid and fail to actually calculate costs and prices, probably the same peopel who still think that the ore they mined themselves is free so, in their eyes, they are making a HUGE profit...

Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Spikes Chop Shop
Posted - 2010.03.12 13:06:00 - [6]
 

some builders do suicide their ships. some builders value their time higher than what can be earned by suiciding. some don't care either way.

issue is more in miners selling minerals for whatever they can get.

well, i'm not complaining. cheap ships ftw!

Carine Parnasse
Posted - 2010.03.12 13:14:00 - [7]
 

I dont have the battleship skills in all 4 races, and i make dozens of ships a day.
I can either sell them for a bit bellow thier insurance or i can spend 5 minutes destroying each one, after getting all the skills up.
Considering its still profitable to build bellow insurance and i can make more money doing missions then blowing up the ships, i just dont care.

Alchemist's Alt
Gallente
Hysteria Nexus
Posted - 2010.03.12 13:23:00 - [8]
 

Ship cost + Insurance fee < Insurance payout + salvage

Enjoy blowing up those shuttles Rolling Eyes

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2010.03.12 13:25:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 12/03/2010 13:26:46
Originally by: Ick Ickagami
What confuses me is the fact that I can not understand the rationale behind a builder putting something on the market at below insurance costs.

Depends how much under insurance balance.

If it's half a mil, even 1.5 mil below breakeven, they probably don't want to bother with it and would rather let others do it for them instead, since they make a nice enough profit from manufacture already to "spread the workload".
If it's 3 mil below, I'd say they're a bit too lazy for their own good, or just don't know better, as you're usually better off doing it yourself by now.
If it's 10 mil or thereabouts under (yes, I have seen Rokhs sold to 105 mil buy orders, and other similar trades on a more or less regular basis, I won't tell you where), I'd say they're starting to look like pretty big idiots and/or utter n00bs.

Orion GUardian
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.12 13:31:00 - [10]
 

hmm I did this at times also, but the community is been made aware so the profits dwimble. I never did waste my time suiciding anything for less tahn 1,5m Difference.

Just have to see: Sell the ship for 1m under isnuracne payout or put the price higher and not sell it. Suiciding a ship and salvaging takes up to 2-5 minutes, so depending on their hourly profits that may be rather slim.

anway, the problem is cheap minerals from people who think "mined minerals are free" But it is a free market, that insurance thing just is a ISK source which shoudl lead to inflation

Joe Censored
UNKN0WN ENTITY
Frater Adhuc Excessum
Posted - 2010.03.12 22:37:00 - [11]
 

In 10 minutes I can:

1) Kill several BS rat spawns, taking in about 9-13 mil in bounties, plus possible ok items such as 1600 Rolled Tungsten plates, etc
2) Commit insurance fraud 2-3 times for approx 1.5 mil each, for a total of about 4.5 mil

So when it comes down to it, committing insurance fraud would lose me around 7 mil every 10 minutes. Thats why I'm not

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2010.03.12 22:45:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Joe Censored
In 10 minutes I can:

1) Kill several BS rat spawns, taking in about 9-13 mil in bounties, plus possible ok items such as 1600 Rolled Tungsten plates, etc
2) Commit insurance fraud 2-3 times for approx 1.5 mil each, for a total of about 4.5 mil

So when it comes down to it, committing insurance fraud would lose me around 7 mil every 10 minutes. Thats why I'm not


this.

Siroh
Posted - 2010.03.13 02:59:00 - [13]
 

Completely agree with Joe

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.03.13 03:12:00 - [14]
 

....another reason.....as if there aren't enough.....

Insurance fraud is more boring that mining. Really!

Capt Lagos
Posted - 2010.03.13 05:54:00 - [15]
 

I laff at the people who suicide their ships for insurannce fraud calling builders and miners lazy, as said above by Joe I believe, ratting combined with loot drops nets more profit than suiciding ships. Blowing up your own ship and not risking anything is really being the lazy one IMOWink

Get off your sack and go kill some rats instead of blowing up your own ship!

Alchemist's Alt
Gallente
Hysteria Nexus
Posted - 2010.03.13 08:37:00 - [16]
 

So I have a wide range of ships and only a few would ever get me a profit by this insurance fraud, comparing it to other ISK making techniques insurance fraud is quite possibly the worst profit maker and more unreliable technique, I am not sure what BS you are using / insuring but from what I saw you would be losing about 4 - 10 million each time from 'insurance fees'.

But until you are making billions I really doubt this should be classed as a problem, even with alot of accounts doing this you will probably be making the equivalent of lvl 2's

Callista Sincera
Amarr
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.03.13 08:59:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Callista Sincera on 13/03/2010 09:00:23
Originally by: Alchemist's Alt
I am not sure what BS you are using / insuring but from what I saw you would be losing about 4 - 10 million each time from 'insurance fees'.


You used to make about 10-14M for tier3 BS. Not sure what we're at now. There are also easier and faster ways to get blown up then the selfdestruct, so the profit is very significantly above running L4s.

I remember that when I mentioned this in one of those "nerf suicidegank" threads a couple of months ago, the local trolls were all calling BS on me and trying to tell me how much they'd actually lose ISK with their ganks and how poor they really are... uh Very Happy

Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
Posted - 2010.03.13 09:06:00 - [18]
 

There is less effort involved in selling ships in Jita than there is in self-destructing and salvaging them.

The difference in profit margin between selling and insurance fraud (when buying minerals, building and selling in and around Jita) is not large enough to be worth it.

Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
Posted - 2010.03.13 09:27:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Joe Censored
In 10 minutes I can:

1) Kill several BS rat spawns, taking in about 9-13 mil in bounties, plus possible ok items such as 1600 Rolled Tungsten plates, etc
2) Commit insurance fraud 2-3 times for approx 1.5 mil each, for a total of about 4.5 mil

So when it comes down to it, committing insurance fraud would lose me around 7 mil every 10 minutes. Thats why I'm not


this.
not really...
~10mil per 20minute-wallet-entry i would believe though. and that doesn't sound like looting at all.

Alchemist's Alt
Gallente
Hysteria Nexus
Posted - 2010.03.13 09:41:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Callista Sincera
Edited by: Callista Sincera on 13/03/2010 09:00:23
Originally by: Alchemist's Alt
I am not sure what BS you are using / insuring but from what I saw you would be losing about 4 - 10 million each time from 'insurance fees'.


You used to make about 10-14M for tier3 BS. Not sure what we're at now. There are also easier and faster ways to get blown up then the selfdestruct, so the profit is very significantly above running L4s.

I remember that when I mentioned this in one of those "nerf suicidegank" threads a couple of months ago, the local trolls were all calling BS on me and trying to tell me how much they'd actually lose ISK with their ganks and how poor they really are... uh Very Happy


Its about 3 - 6 million providing you buy correct which is funny since you can make more just buy buying / selling XD

But yeah I take my original comment back, didnt bother checking T3 BS, assuming all the trading goes fast and accurate you are looking at a nice sexy profit but really I dont see this being any better or easier than general trading but it is nice for suicide gankers / pvpers though, people who generally cant make ISK by other means

Tasty Bit
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2010.03.13 12:51:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Blane Xero
Not everyone selling ships are building them; Some people just need some quick isk so chose to liquidate their assets at a firesale price.


They need quick isk...so they sell their ship. Could they not wait the 2 minutes it takes to SD?

Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2010.03.13 13:54:00 - [22]
 

i guess thats the intention of the insurance nerf now. not for suicide gankers but for fauders.


 

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