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blankseplocked 4Gamer has details on the GDC presentation of the clothing technology
 
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Morveus
Caldari
Tagazok Corporation
Posted - 2010.03.13 11:29:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Catheryn Martobi
Yes, but debris on a road you can simply drive through is not a gameplay mechanic. It's just visual fluff. If a ship collided with an asteroid, it would either be destroyed or sent on a tangent. If it wasn't destroyed, the server would have to calculate which directing it went off in and how much damage was applied based on the trajectory and speed. Not only that but collision models would have to be created. Did you know that all ships and asteroids have a perfectly shperical collision model based on their two furthest points? That is why you sometimes bump a 'roid when you didn't even come close, or if you come at a titan from the side you can't even get near it. Its a huge jump from the system we have now to having accurate collision models, damage inflicting collisions and accurate trajectory tracking. I think it would be super sweet, but the server hardware isn't there yet.

They could meet us half-way and have ships just explode when they ran into each other, but I think that might raise some concerns.

Okay, I wasn't seeing things that way.
You're right, bandwidth and calculations are a problem in this case, although it would be far more realistic.
It may never become possible : even if the technical problems were not, I don't know how we could avoid being killed by kamikazes YARRRR!!

Got it Very Happy

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.03.13 13:04:00 - [62]
 

I'm hoping that something like these will be for sale

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.03.13 20:06:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Catheryn Martobi
Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 13/03/2010 03:20:46
Is it me or is the whole concept of clothing reacting to physics kind of a slap in this face?

This is a.......SPACE GAME! Where are the frickin PHYSICS? Screw the clothing! Great, I'll be able to watch my fabrics obey physical laws as they draep across a stairway but my ship bounces off a station. You incarnia supporters are un-frickin-believable!!!

dra-pe....a bad word....really?!?


Well, the fabric rendering is going to happen client side, meaning each computer running the game will draw up everything you see and only download data for where people are, but not their clothes. This means that no one will be seeing the exact same image (for instance if you see a bug in the clothing, it's likely no one else will see it). This is fine because it's not important to gameplay, however if we were to have ship physics, the Eve cluster would have to calculate and transmit everything, not only would that significantly increase the demand on the server, but bandwidth requirements would skyrocket. because Incarna wont be integral to gameplay, they can cram as much technology as they want into it.


Why are you justifying not having more spatial physics in Eve versus justifying having second life in Eve? It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be collision physics for every aspect of the game, and it doesn't have to be transmitted to everyone online or in a system, only those within a certain range. I understand there are technical considerations that need addressed. But that is what CCP is doing one way or the other. They're choosing to make technical considerations for a second life in Eve. In essence they're expending a great deal of time and effort, technically, to take Eve in a direction that detracts from game play as we know it in favor of game play that doesn't appear to contribute to what most players spend most of their time doing (grinding, missioning, mining, pvping, exploring) and will continue to do Eve even with walking in stations.

So, if having more spatial physics for the game play that we currently have is technically challenging and creating a walk in station environment is technically challenging, are you saying you would prefer walking in stations, what IMO amounts to fluff (i.e. not a lot of playability)? I'd rather they spend the time to rework the game for some more realism in space rather than reworking it purely for eye-candy.

If they added more spacial physics they could potentially change blob warfare by providing dynamic battlefields that currently and technically are 3 dimensional but are more suited to 2 dimensional tactics. By providing a physical landscape with some collision physics and other physics such as not being able to scan and see everything within a given range where fleets could hide behind moon's, planets, in belts, etc, much smaller fleets could potentially tackle the blobs with real, solid tactics. But hey, lets have walking in station because it's pretty. And oooooh, look at the way my fabrics glint in the lighting, flutter in the non-existent wind.

I've played a lot of games in my time and I can tell you that playability goes much further towards creating dedicated players than eye-candy does. At best eye-candy is a short term means to generate a larger player base on a small time scale. If that's the way Eve is going, and it sounds like it is, then the game is already on it's way out. Don't let the peak number of users you're seeing online these days fool you. That's being achieved without the coming eye-candy. Many decaying cycles are preceded with very positive performance characteristics. One only need look at STOL to know that eye-candy alone isn't enough to sustain a player base.

Catheryn Martobi
Posted - 2010.03.13 21:23:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd

Why are you justifying not having more spatial physics in Eve versus justifying having second life in Eve? It doesn't have to be perfect. It doesn't have to be collision physics for every aspect of the game, and it doesn't have to be transmitted to everyone online or in a system, only those within a certain range. I understand there are technical considerations that need addressed. But that is what CCP is doing one way or the other. They're choosing to make technical considerations for a second life in Eve. In essence they're expending a great deal of time and effort, technically, to take Eve in a direction that detracts from game play as we know it in favor of game play that doesn't appear to contribute to what most players spend most of their time doing (grinding, missioning, mining, pvping, exploring) and will continue to do Eve even with walking in stations.

So, if having more spatial physics for the game play that we currently have is technically challenging and creating a walk in station environment is technically challenging, are you saying you would prefer walking in stations, what IMO amounts to fluff (i.e. not a lot of playability)? I'd rather they spend the time to rework the game for some more realism in space rather than reworking it purely for eye-candy.

If they added more spacial physics they could potentially change blob warfare by providing dynamic battlefields that currently and technically are 3 dimensional but are more suited to 2 dimensional tactics. By providing a physical landscape with some collision physics and other physics such as not being able to scan and see everything within a given range where fleets could hide behind moon's, planets, in belts, etc, much smaller fleets could potentially tackle the blobs with real, solid tactics. But hey, lets have walking in station because it's pretty. And oooooh, look at the way my fabrics glint in the lighting, flutter in the non-existent wind.

I've played a lot of games in my time and I can tell you that playability goes much further towards creating dedicated players than eye-candy does. At best eye-candy is a short term means to generate a larger player base on a small time scale. If that's the way Eve is going, and it sounds like it is, then the game is already on it's way out. Don't let the peak number of users you're seeing online these days fool you. That's being achieved without the coming eye-candy. Many decaying cycles are preceded with very positive performance characteristics. One only need look at STOL to know that eye-candy alone isn't enough to sustain a player base.


As I'm sure you know, the engine Incarna will be using was developed for CCP's upcoming MMO World of Darkness. Before development of the engine, the cost/benefit ratio to add WiS would have not been worth it. But since they are already developing the engine anyway it practically a trivial matter to add it in and could potentially double Eve's player base.

As for the fleet tactics, CCP is looking at fleet formation to get rid of blobs.

Jim Luc
Caldari
Rule of Five
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2010.03.13 23:30:00 - [65]
 

Idunno, I tend to think they probably are looking into ways of introducing a better physics engine into Eve, along with twitch-based combat frigates and stuff they've mentioned here & there.

http://www.blackprophecy.com/index.php?id=121

This is an interesting article, on the tech side of the physics thing, but as this is still un-released, I wait to see how well they can actually pull this off. Eve not only has to worry about the casual pilot or small fleet battles with 10 - 20, they also need to account for physics on the large scale, with thousands of players all in the same battle.

I really long for the day when networking power increases, and we can have hundreds of fast-paced combat frigates fighting other frigates & drones, while battleships and carriers are also on the field.

Karontin Maysubile
Posted - 2010.03.15 01:03:00 - [66]
 

So we didn't hear anything at the GDC?

Zofe Stormcaller
B4D W0LF
B4D W01F
Posted - 2010.03.15 10:24:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Cat o'Ninetails
you guys will be kicking yourselves when i post the first annual profits from my beauty parlour lol

x


Can't I just get my next clone to be a better looking one? If they invent that tech in r/l I'll be taking out a mortgage to get one...

In the meantime I'll see if the laser hair removal place uses scorch...

Grez
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
Posted - 2010.03.15 11:28:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Grez on 15/03/2010 11:41:47
As long as CCP implement a Havok or DirectCompute solution, I'll be happy, because it performs much better than PsyX, which has been proven to gimp ATI cards wherever possible.

Truth be told, I'm a little ****ed at CCP for routing for the green team. As long as there's options for the red team to run it in exactly the same manner via DC then I'll be happy.

Not to mention John Carmack himself has smashed PhysX, stating he dislikes it, as do many industry leaders (you won't see Valve or iD supporting it anytime soon).

Drykor
Minmatar
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2010.03.15 11:38:00 - [69]
 

Don't care about this feature at all. Spending massive amounts of time to make clothing look good? Waste of resources in a spaceship game. Looks like we'll be used to beta-test features for another game.

BearUkraine
Gallente
Light Style
Posted - 2010.03.15 19:19:00 - [70]
 

Hi all.

Who havent seen video from GDC: youtube

Also according to rus interview from GDC with Torfi Frans Olafsson, Producer at CCP Games, probably Incarna will not be as a winter expansion.

Proof (rus)

Benri Konpaku
Posted - 2010.03.15 19:42:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: Benri Konpaku on 15/03/2010 19:43:57
Square-Enix would definitely give good use to that technology.

But nVidia...? Meh, I miss the times back when ATI wasn't part of AMD. Crying or Very sad

Ghoest
Posted - 2010.03.15 21:23:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Ghoest on 15/03/2010 21:23:08
I suppose its nice that they are doing something for the metrosexuals and gays but I would rather see them put some resources into fixing industry and science.

Razin
The xDEATHx Squadron
Legion of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2010.03.15 22:26:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: BearUkraine
Hi all.

Who havent seen video from GDC: youtube

Also according to rus interview from GDC with Torfi Frans Olafsson, Producer at CCP Games, probably Incarna will not be as a winter expansion.

Proof (rus)
What Torfi seems to have said is that 'player apartments' (as part of Incarna content) will not be released this year.

The interviewer did not specifically ask about Incarna release date.

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2010.03.15 22:42:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Jim Luc
Idunno, I tend to think they probably are looking into ways of introducing a better physics engine into Eve, along with twitch-based combat frigates and stuff they've mentioned here & there.

http://www.blackprophecy.com/index.php?id=121

This is an interesting article, on the tech side of the physics thing, but as this is still un-released, I wait to see how well they can actually pull this off. Eve not only has to worry about the casual pilot or small fleet battles with 10 - 20, they also need to account for physics on the large scale, with thousands of players all in the same battle.

I really long for the day when networking power increases, and we can have hundreds of fast-paced combat frigates fighting other frigates & drones, while battleships and carriers are also on the field.


BP is a heavily instanced game - Only 20 players per instance i believe, maximum?

Aside from that, it's not the bandwidth that poses the problem but the processing power. Bandwidth is not really a problem because ship positions, angles and velocities are already transmitted to the EVE client for every ship in space. The real problem is computing all of those at a playable rate. Advanced physics are nice, but even the EVE cluster can't handle that many computations, at least not for realistic physics.

Sloth Arnini
Gradient
Electus Matari
Posted - 2010.03.16 12:44:00 - [75]
 

For all the haters.

YAY! I just linked a YouTube video! Now I have passed the third class of Dasty's Forum Warrior Course!

BearUkraine
Gallente
Light Style
Posted - 2010.03.16 13:19:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: BearUkraine on 16/03/2010 13:20:10
Originally by: Razin
Originally by: BearUkraine
Hi all.

Who havent seen video from GDC: youtube

Also according to rus interview from GDC with Torfi Frans Olafsson, Producer at CCP Games, probably Incarna will not be as a winter expansion.

Proof (rus)
What Torfi seems to have said is that 'player apartments' (as part of Incarna content) will not be released this year.

The interviewer did not specifically ask about Incarna release date.


Yeah. It seems you are right. I misunderstood a point about "module" that actually means exactly 'player apartments'and 'trophies' YARRRR!!.

Kellyr
Posted - 2010.03.16 17:48:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Oh God, PhysX? Great, now everyone who owns an ATI card won't be able to VIEW the fabric worth a damn, because PhysX is a proprietary to NVidia API. It's deliberately crippled from ATI graphics cards, meaning anyone using one won't be able to see the fancy, flowing fabric. How much is Nvidia paying you guys under The Way It's Meant to Be Played to segregate your player base by graphics chip brand? Confused


you segregated yourself with your poor choice of gfx card and lack of pre purchase research. Everyone knows nvidia > ati.

Posted from my iPhone

bff Jill
Posted - 2010.03.16 18:09:00 - [78]
 

Edited by: bff Jill on 16/03/2010 18:12:05
Originally by: Ghoest
Edited by: Ghoest on 15/03/2010 21:23:08
I suppose its nice that they are doing something for the metrosexuals and gays but I would rather see them put some resources into fixing industry and science.

You forgot us autogynephiles =(

Originally by: Kellyr

you segregated yourself with your poor choice of gfx card and lack of pre purchase research. Everyone knows nvidia > ati.


horrible lies! ati is better! the only reason nvidia even competes is they give pc manufacturers deals and spam their logo all over game splash screens. card of choice for sheep.

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
Posted - 2010.03.16 18:31:00 - [79]
 

WTB: Space dungarees

Sader Rykane
Amarr
The Dark Space Initiative
Revival Of The Talocan Empire
Posted - 2010.03.16 19:25:00 - [80]
 

YES! Eve Dolls Soon!

I mean err... action figures yea. Eve action figures !

Mack Bane
Gallente
Posted - 2010.03.17 01:43:00 - [81]
 

Hmmh, I thought, PhysX runs om PS3, Xbox360,and PC. So, that makes it a cross-platform feature. Now, the way it is implemented into an engine, is, what cripples certain hardware.
I run an ATI 5870,and i would be pretty angry,If i purchased that card,because at fanfest'09,there was a demo of how they optimised the game for Eyefinity.And now, they'd tell me to change to another card, or be happy with crappy physics,once incarna is here.

Usagi Tsukino
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
Posted - 2010.03.17 03:26:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Catheryn Martobi
They could meet us half-way and have ships just explode when they ran into each other, but I think that might raise some concerns.

Not to send this thread off in a third direction, but it drives me insane to see a frigate 1/6th the mass of a battleship plow into said battleship at 4k/s and not be damaged.

I hit a Honda Civic at 30mhp and it totaled my Explorer. Sad The Civic did not get pushed out of jump range either.

Cikulisuy
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2010.03.17 12:28:00 - [83]
 

bleh, nvidia is incredibly useless, spend their time market whoring instead of actually building decent cards.


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