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Cailais
Amarr
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
Talocan United
Posted - 2010.03.12 16:47:00 - [31]
 

Shocked

That's pretty impressive. I might even be able to persuade the wife to play!

Ah yes I can see it now...

"No hunny, you can't have the Guccimatar dress until you finished mining that veldspar. Oh, and a beer would be good." Very Happy

Actually on second thoughts that's far more likely to go the same way as real life and she'll end up with a wardrobe full of Gallente designer shoes (that she never wears) and i'll end up slaving away at the 'roid face, penniless and broken! Sad

Cancel Incarna!!!ShockedShocked

C.


Ranger 1
Amarr
Ranger Corp
Posted - 2010.03.12 17:15:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Dr Deadbolt
I find this hilarious.

Here we have EVE a game with guys roleplaying big gonaded men fighting bravely for just causes ,fighting locals to expand their controlled territories, or fighting as pirates and bravely? imposing their will on others.

Now the end game appears to be EVE will become a game of men flouncing around in womans clothes asking if their bottoms look big.

Way to go "guys".




I know quite a few ladies already that play EVE. Apparently most people do not, so perhaps you should consider that the likelyhood of drawing more women to EVE after Incarna is released is fairly high.

Personally I don't count that as a bad thing.

Aloriana Jacques
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
Posted - 2010.03.12 17:31:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Oh God, PhysX? Great, now everyone who owns an ATI card won't be able to VIEW the fabric worth a damn, because PhysX is a proprietary to NVidia API. It's deliberately crippled from ATI graphics cards, meaning anyone using one won't be able to see the fancy, flowing fabric. How much is Nvidia paying you guys under The Way It's Meant to Be Played to segregate your player base by graphics chip brand? Confused


You've echoed my concerns wonderfully. After reading that article... I'm not switching my ATI out for nVIDIA just for one damn game feature. And if that's what they ask, then I've lost all faith in ccp in staying within a generation's technology, not trapping players into a niche available onto to certain hardware.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.12 17:40:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Oh God, PhysX? Great, now everyone who owns an ATI card won't be able to VIEW the fabric worth a damn, because PhysX is a proprietary to NVidia API. It's deliberately crippled from ATI graphics cards, meaning anyone using one won't be able to see the fancy, flowing fabric. How much is Nvidia paying you guys under The Way It's Meant to Be Played to segregate your player base by graphics chip brand? Confused


+1

nV crippled it for the cpu too, used to run much better on multiple cores when Aegia still owned it. Lames....

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.03.12 17:46:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Aloriana Jacques
You've echoed my concerns wonderfully. After reading that article... I'm not switching my ATI out for nVIDIA just for one damn game feature. And if that's what they ask, then I've lost all faith in ccp in staying within a generation's technology, not trapping players into a niche available onto to certain hardware.


NVidia and ATI have been slugging it out for years now, and now NVidia has an awesome game engine they aren't even charging game companies to use. It's freeware, and any Windows or linux developers are welcome to use it all they want.

Simply put, ATI is in trouble.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.12 18:10:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
NVidia and ATI have been slugging it out for years now, and now NVidia has an awesome game engine they aren't even charging game companies to use. It's freeware, and any Windows or linux developers are welcome to use it all they want.
Simply put, ATI is in trouble.


"AMD (NYSE: AMD) today announced that, along with partners Pixelux Entertainment and Bullet Physics, it has added significant support to the Open Physics ecosystem by providing game developers with access to the newest version of the Pixelux Digital Molecular Matter (DMM), a breakthrough in physics simulation. In addition, to enabling a superior development experience and helping to reduce time to market, Pixelux has tightly integrated its technology, DMM, with Bullet Physics, allowing developers to integrate physics simulation into game titles that run on both OpenCL- and DirectCompute-capable platforms."

Notice that last bit, OpenCL and DirectCompute? Thats the way to go in my opinion. Nvidia pay developers to use PhysX, the API is free to use of course, but developers need a little nudge by nvidia to segregate themselves from a huge portion of the playerbase.

Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation
RONA Directorate
Posted - 2010.03.12 18:41:00 - [37]
 

Edited by: Obsidian Hawk on 12/03/2010 18:43:26
IB4 Chribba's veldspar lined trench coat

Ib4 Mynxee and her dress

I think th article and the pictures are a great read.


I still demand that CCP give all current subscribers a limited edition carebear outfit for incarna.Razz


Edit: i read up on the nvidia vs ati stuff. People with ati cards wont need to fear you will be able to play incarna with an ati.

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.03.12 19:05:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: brutoid
Notice that last bit, OpenCL and DirectCompute? Thats the way to go in my opinion. Nvidia pay developers to use PhysX, the API is free to use of course, but developers need a little nudge by nvidia to segregate themselves from a huge portion of the playerbase.


Yeah, that's how NVidia do everything. Making arrangements with companies for things like a big long NVidia ad which would play at game startup was another favorite of theirs. I don't much like their rabid self promotion, but they did zig when AMD zagged by going the software route instead of continuing to play the hardware one upping game. As for OpenCL and DirectCompute, it remains to be seen if they'll truly make PhysX irrelevant like AMD claim, but i'd imagine they hope it does.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.12 19:14:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Yeah, that's how NVidia do everything. Making arrangements with companies for things like a big long NVidia ad which would play at game startup was another favorite of theirs. I don't much like their rabid self promotion, but they did zig when AMD zagged by going the software route instead of continuing to play the hardware one upping game. As for OpenCL and DirectCompute, it remains to be seen if they'll truly make PhysX irrelevant like AMD claim, but i'd imagine they hope it does.


Yep, cant blame them for their aggressive marketing really, AMD could learn quite a few things from nvidia's approach. The thing with nvidia and their proprietary stuff is that long term it helps nobody if a uniform standard doesn't get reached, this is where i praise AMD.

Got to take what nvidia say with quite a big pinch of salt nowadays. By the end of this year AMD' Fusion should be firmly on track and Intels Sandybridge cpu is on the horizon. Both of these techs marry the cpu and the gpu onto the same die utilising the same one socket, a dedicted gpu will not be needed for most watchable media etc in the future. Where will this leave nvidia?

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.03.12 19:19:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Evelgrivion
Oh God, PhysX? Great, now everyone who owns an ATI card won't be able to VIEW the fabric worth a damn, because PhysX is a proprietary to NVidia API. It's deliberately crippled from ATI graphics cards, meaning anyone using one won't be able to see the fancy, flowing fabric. How much is Nvidia paying you guys under The Way It's Meant to Be Played to segregate your player base by graphics chip brand? Confused


So everything should be gimped just because ATI cards can't handle it? Physics acceleration will never become common unless developers start supporting it and that means some people won't be able to use it at first. Not everyone had graphics cards that could handle hardware 3D acceleration when it first started being used. Not everyone had sound cards back when games started supporting actual sound instead of beeps, either. If you don't have the proper hardware, you don't get the full experience--and that's nothing new in the computer game industry.

Oh, and NVidia cards are better anyway.Very Happy

Amerilia
Posted - 2010.03.12 19:24:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann
Originally by: Evelgrivion
Oh God, PhysX? Great, now everyone who owns an ATI card won't be able to VIEW the fabric worth a damn, because PhysX is a proprietary to NVidia API. It's deliberately crippled from ATI graphics cards, meaning anyone using one won't be able to see the fancy, flowing fabric. How much is Nvidia paying you guys under The Way It's Meant to Be Played to segregate your player base by graphics chip brand? Confused


So everything should be gimped just because ATI cards can't handle it? Physics acceleration will never become common unless developers start supporting it and that means some people won't be able to use it at first. Not everyone had graphics cards that could handle hardware 3D acceleration when it first started being used. Not everyone had sound cards back when games started supporting actual sound instead of beeps, either. If you don't have the proper hardware, you don't get the full experience--and that's nothing new in the computer game industry.

Oh, and NVidia cards are better anyway.Very Happy


Ati cards can handle it, they just cant handle an nvidia format

Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
Posted - 2010.03.12 19:30:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: brutoid
Got to take what nvidia say with quite a big pinch of salt nowadays. By the end of this year AMD' Fusion should be firmly on track and Intels Sandybridge cpu is on the horizon. Both of these techs marry the cpu and the gpu onto the same die utilising the same one socket, a dedicted gpu will not be needed for most watchable media etc in the future. Where will this leave nvidia?


I thought Fusion was all but forgotten. Didn't know they were finally thinking about releasing it, but after some googling i discovered it's due out in 2011, if that link is accurate, and you're right, will be interesting to see how Nvidia copes with it.

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2010.03.12 19:33:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Kyra Felann on 12/03/2010 19:36:55
Originally by: Amerilia
Ati cards can handle it, they just cant handle an nvidia format


Yes, I'm aware. It's a newish technology and it's common for new technologies to be proprietary before they become open standards. Look at early sound cards--you had to tell the game whether you were using a Sound Blaster card or an AdLib card or a Turtle Beach card. Look at early 3D cards--3dFX cards had their own format, other cards used OpenGL and then Direct3D.

NVidia has actually made PhysX available to more people when they bought Aegeia. Before that, it was only available to people who bought those dedicated cards, which few people did because developers didn't support it because not many people had the cards. Lots of people own NVidia cards.

My point is that if developers don't start supporting the physics acceleration that is out there now, it'll be years or longer before physics acceleration starts to become common in games like graphics or sound acceleration are now. I think we can all agree that physics acceleration being common will be a good thing. Some people will be left out at first because they don't have the supported hardware. But that's nothing new.

I'm sure CCP doesn't want to exclude a portion of their players from getting the full experience, but right now it's either that or gimp it for everyone so that no one can get the full experience.

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.12 19:54:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I thought Fusion was all but forgotten. Didn't know they were finally thinking about releasing it, but after some googling i discovered it's due out in 2011, if that link is accurate, and you're right, will be interesting to see how Nvidia copes with it.


A really interesting thing is whether services like onlive take off in a big way or not. If it does and HD gaming can really be enjoyed through a browser regardless of hardware then i'll say that nvidia are in for a rough ride.

Magnus Nordir
Caldari
Nordir Industries
Posted - 2010.03.12 20:26:00 - [45]
 

Confirming I can't wait to play with eve dolls. Shocked

Agallis Zinthros
Amarr
Posted - 2010.03.12 20:48:00 - [46]
 

I'm sure they'll have a workable solution for ATI hardware. They may wind up porting the clothing to OpenCL or Directcompute, especially with Nvidia being in trouble the way they are(zero DX11 parts, irrelevant in high-end GPUs since August 09 and Radeon 5xxx)

Winged Crime
Minmatar
The Blood Money Cartel
Posted - 2010.03.12 21:11:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Ascuris Wurm
You see, Incarna is really just a bet between 2 CCP executives as to whether they can get 200,000 guys to play with dolls. Who do you think will win?




They're ACTION FIGURES, damnit!

Cataca
Posted - 2010.03.13 02:49:00 - [48]
 

To be quite honest, the whole "you play a female avatar, you like to wear skirts IRL" thing is getting old.

Lets voice it in another way. Did your decision to play a male avatar, and thus heaving to look at him 24/7, instead of a female ever occurred to you as a hint, that you are indeed attracted to the same sex?

And lets be completely honest here, if you connect your sexuality with your eve avatar, it might be time to ****ING QUIT AND GET A LIFE

Nemesis Factor
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2010.03.13 02:54:00 - [49]
 

Op, feel free to add this link to your first post.

Mr Kidd
Posted - 2010.03.13 03:20:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Mr Kidd on 13/03/2010 03:20:46
Is it me or is the whole concept of clothing reacting to physics kind of a slap in this face?

This is a.......SPACE GAME! Where are the frickin PHYSICS? Screw the clothing! Great, I'll be able to watch my fabrics obey physical laws as they draep across a stairway but my ship bounces off a station. You incarnia supporters are un-frickin-believable!!!

dra-pe....a bad word....really?!?

Cat o'Ninetails
Caldari
Rancer Defence League
Posted - 2010.03.13 03:37:00 - [51]
 

you guys will be kicking yourselves when i post the first annual profits from my beauty parlour lol


x

brutoid
Caldari
Posted - 2010.03.13 04:56:00 - [52]
 

Here's another cloth demo from GDC today, only this time the physics are done on the cpu so everyone can enjoy it Wink

Havok Cloth

Like Havok Destruction, Cloth is a cross-platform solution that optimizes and streamlines dynamic cloth simulation in real-time environments.

The Havok Cloth video displays impressive cloth dynamics on top of an angry ogre. Cloth dynamics is one of the greatest trump cards that PhysX currently holds. There is no word yet if Havok Cloth will rise to support dynamic tearing and ripping of cloth mesh as PhysX is able to do, but it is certainly an achievement if Havok Cloth implements simulation this impressive at a software level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cy1ty4nvmc&feature=player_embedded

Entarel Helfir
Eternal Darkness Incorporated
Posted - 2010.03.13 09:15:00 - [53]
 

To be honest, the examples shown there look rather like they come from world of darkness than from eve (especially the red dress and the background).

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2010.03.13 09:24:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 13/03/2010 03:20:46
Is it me or is the whole concept of clothing reacting to physics kind of a slap in this face?

This is a.......SPACE GAME! Where are the frickin PHYSICS? Screw the clothing! Great, I'll be able to watch my fabrics obey physical laws as they draep across a stairway but my ship bounces off a station. You incarnia supporters are un-frickin-believable!!!

dra-pe....a bad word....really?!?



You might recall that the WiS engine is actually being developed for the World of Darkness game. It's use in EVE is basically a side benefit.

And CCP explicitly stated that they were aiming for a far higher proportion of women in their WoD demographic. And historically, female players really care about about things like the clothes that they can put on their avatars. And given that WoD is going to strongly attract the emo crowd, probably a lot of the male players too.

Join the dots: We're getting fancy clothes in EVE, because they're genuinely important in WoD.

Typhado3
Minmatar
Posted - 2010.03.13 09:40:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Ascuris Wurm
You see, Incarna is really just a bet between 2 CCP executives as to whether they can get 200,000 guys to play with dolls. Who do you think will win?




There will come a point in time where the players of eve will as a collective realize they are playing in a dress..... at that time everyone loses.


more seriously though I'm looking forward to these sort of things for my amarr alt. Just hoping there's some nice minmatar sebiestor style clothing

Catheryn Martobi
Posted - 2010.03.13 10:04:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Mr Kidd
Edited by: Mr Kidd on 13/03/2010 03:20:46
Is it me or is the whole concept of clothing reacting to physics kind of a slap in this face?

This is a.......SPACE GAME! Where are the frickin PHYSICS? Screw the clothing! Great, I'll be able to watch my fabrics obey physical laws as they draep across a stairway but my ship bounces off a station. You incarnia supporters are un-frickin-believable!!!

dra-pe....a bad word....really?!?


Well, the fabric rendering is going to happen client side, meaning each computer running the game will draw up everything you see and only download data for where people are, but not their clothes. This means that no one will be seeing the exact same image (for instance if you see a bug in the clothing, it's likely no one else will see it). This is fine because it's not important to gameplay, however if we were to have ship physics, the Eve cluster would have to calculate and transmit everything, not only would that significantly increase the demand on the server, but bandwidth requirements would skyrocket. because Incarna wont be integral to gameplay, they can cram as much technology as they want into it.

Freyya
Advanced Planetary Exports
Intergalactic Exports Group
Posted - 2010.03.13 10:15:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Kyra Felann
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 12/03/2010 19:36:55
Originally by: Amerilia
Ati cards can handle it, they just cant handle an nvidia format


Yes, I'm aware. It's a newish technology and it's common for new technologies to be proprietary before they become open standards. Look at early sound cards--you had to tell the game whether you were using a Sound Blaster card or an AdLib card or a Turtle Beach card. Look at early 3D cards--3dFX cards had their own format, other cards used OpenGL and then Direct3D.

NVidia has actually made PhysX available to more people when they bought Aegeia. Before that, it was only available to people who bought those dedicated cards, which few people did because developers didn't support it because not many people had the cards. Lots of people own NVidia cards.

My point is that if developers don't start supporting the physics acceleration that is out there now, it'll be years or longer before physics acceleration starts to become common in games like graphics or sound acceleration are now. I think we can all agree that physics acceleration being common will be a good thing. Some people will be left out at first because they don't have the supported hardware. But that's nothing new.

I'm sure CCP doesn't want to exclude a portion of their players from getting the full experience, but right now it's either that or gimp it for everyone so that no one can get the full experience.


ATi can handle anything just fine since the HD3xxx series. It's nVidia that blocks ATi from using the subroutines or instruction sets to utilise the physics, since they have a patent on the way physics are handled on the nVidia cards, since they work on a different principle of handling graphics than ATi does.

Also ATi has been starting up a similar program, or breathing new life into it actually, just like TWIWMTBP from nVidia. Just simply buy your way into the dev office and tell them to optimize their games for ATi architecture and make sure the competition suffers a performance hit due to a mismatch in exact handling of graphics/whatever. All this was written in simpleton terms btw. Alot more to it than the above..

Doctor Mabuse
Posted - 2010.03.13 10:31:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Simply put, ATI is in trouble.


Meanwhile NVIDIA are busy cooking their customers graphics cards:

Linkage

Morveus
Caldari
Tagazok Corporation
Posted - 2010.03.13 10:44:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Morveus on 13/03/2010 10:47:53
Originally by: Catheryn Martobi
Well, the fabric rendering is going to happen client side, meaning each computer running the game will draw up everything you see and only download data for where people are, but not their clothes. This means that no one will be seeing the exact same image (for instance if you see a bug in the clothing, it's likely no one else will see it). This is fine because it's not important to gameplay, however if we were to have ship physics, the Eve cluster would have to calculate and transmit everything, not only would that significantly increase the demand on the server, but bandwidth requirements would skyrocket. because Incarna wont be integral to gameplay, they can cram as much technology as they want into it.

Instead of the data sent to "bounce" the ship on the station, the server could just send a "physics reaction between ship and station" to the client. Then the client would render it. You don't have to synchronise every bit generated from the explosion (for instance) between client and server.

Play a physics-capable LAN game with two computers side by side and do something with the physics, like making something explode. You'll notice that the physics are client-side: for instance while playing Flatout 2 in LAN, I use to encounter car parts (or stuff from the environment) on the track, which other players don't see at the same place.

But I'm not against my ship bouncing on stations... I'm telling myself "the ship's computer automatically avoids collisions". And I suspect vehicules/ships in thousands of years would at least be able of this -_-

Catheryn Martobi
Posted - 2010.03.13 11:16:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Morveus
Edited by: Morveus on 13/03/2010 10:47:53
Originally by: Catheryn Martobi
Well, the fabric rendering is going to happen client side, meaning each computer running the game will draw up everything you see and only download data for where people are, but not their clothes. This means that no one will be seeing the exact same image (for instance if you see a bug in the clothing, it's likely no one else will see it). This is fine because it's not important to gameplay, however if we were to have ship physics, the Eve cluster would have to calculate and transmit everything, not only would that significantly increase the demand on the server, but bandwidth requirements would skyrocket. because Incarna wont be integral to gameplay, they can cram as much technology as they want into it.

Instead of the data sent to "bounce" the ship on the station, the server could just send a "physics reaction between ship and station" to the client. Then the client would render it. You don't have to synchronise every bit generated from the explosion (for instance) between client and server.

Play a physics-capable LAN game with two computers side by side and do something with the physics, like making something explode. You'll notice that the physics are client-side: for instance while playing Flatout 2 in LAN, I use to encounter car parts (or stuff from the environment) on the track, which other players don't see at the same place.

But I'm not against my ship bouncing on stations... I'm telling myself "the ship's computer automatically avoids collisions". And I suspect vehicules/ships in thousands of years would at least be able of this -_-


Yes, but debris on a road you can simply drive through is not a gameplay mechanic. It's just visual fluff. If a ship collided with an asteroid, it would either be destroyed or sent on a tangent. If it wasn't destroyed, the server would have to calculate which directing it went off in and how much damage was applied based on the trajectory and speed. Not only that but collision models would have to be created. Did you know that all ships and asteroids have a perfectly shperical collision model based on their two furthest points? That is why you sometimes bump a 'roid when you didn't even come close, or if you come at a titan from the side you can't even get near it. Its a huge jump from the system we have now to having accurate collision models, damage inflicting collisions and accurate trajectory tracking. I think it would be super sweet, but the server hardware isn't there yet.

They could meet us half-way and have ships just explode when they ran into each other, but I think that might raise some concerns.


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